Stupid tape gate discussion

[pdsidd]

Surely if you got tapes there's no reason to swap singers?? Why go to all the trouble?

To gain respect back by both their fans and the music industry as a whole. Maybe?

Don't believe they lost respect from the fans maybe some folks on the internet but the vast majority of JRNY fans probably don't know of MR or BT so how would they know? Still doesn't alter the question - why would you need to change the singer if you were using tapes - he could have had his throat ripped out by wolves earlier in the day and could still mime couldn't he? so why change singers? And why cancel that festival in Chile due to throat problems if it's on tape?

Makes no sense whatsoever. Surely fans could ask for refund as well if JRNY weren't live - not seen any reports of that in the media? Have you?

[Amanda]

Good points. However, they certainly weren't going to gain any industry respect by way of the road they were travelling, before JSS came on board. I guess I should have been a little more specific.

Even with JSS's talent, I don't think they're going to gain much respect. In fact, if I were the music industry, I'd be laughing my ass off that a band changed lead singers yet again. All this ebb and flow does NOTHING for Journey music industry-wise.

That is, unless there's a Behind The Music: Part II

[Crazie Scarab]

Surely if you got tapes there's no reason to swap singers?? Why go to all the trouble?

To gain respect back by both their fans and the music industry as a whole. Maybe?

Don't believe they lost respect from the fans maybe some folks on the internet but the vast majority of JRNY fans probably don't know of MR or BT so how would they know? Still doesn't alter the question - why would you need to change the singer if you were using tapes - he could have had his throat ripped out by wolves earlier in the day and could still mime couldn't he? so why change singers? And why cancel that festival in Chile due to throat problems if it's on tape?

Makes no sense whatsoever. Surely fans could ask for refund as well if JRNY weren't live - not seen any reports of that in the media? Have you?

I think at this point, it really doesn't matter "why" anymore. The bottom line is Journey ultimately felt they needed a change and change was made. Perhaps we'll know a little more "why," when the interviews finally are released. Then again, maybe not. Who knows?

[Crazie Scarab]

Good points. However, they certainly weren't going to gain any industry respect by way of the road they were travelling, before JSS came on board. I guess I should have been a little more specific.

Even with JSS's talent, I don't think they're going to gain much respect. In fact, if I were the music industry, I'd be laughing my ass off that a band changed lead singers yet again. All this ebb and flow does NOTHING for Journey music industry-wise.

That is, unless there's a Behind The Music: Part II

Time will tell, Amanda.. Time will tell.. JSS has some awesome talent!

[SteveForever]

Good points. However, they certainly weren't going to gain any industry respect by way of the road they were travelling, before JSS came on board. I guess I should have been a little more specific.

Even with JSS's talent, I don't think they're going to gain much respect. In fact, if I were the music industry, I'd be laughing my ass off that a band changed lead singers yet again. All this ebb and flow does NOTHING for Journey music industry-wise.

That is, unless there's a Behind The Music: Part II

I have to disagree with you, no one is laughing at a band that has been around for several decades that is still selling out live concerts. The way some things have been handled is questionable, but the argument can always be made that back up vocals are used in every band, all that tech. talk. Even lipsynching isn't poo-poo'd anymore unless its by a solo artist like Ashley Simpson. Anything goes in the industry now.

[Amanda]

Time will tell, Amanda.. Time will tell.. JSS has some awesome talent!

The music industry doesn't CARE about music like Journey's anymore.

What are such bands whittled down to nowadays? Nostalgia acts and commentary volunteers on VH-1 shows.

Yes, JSS has some awesome talent - but I don't feel like it's going to be recognized by the music industry. Only fans.

[Saint John]

To gain respect by music industry as a whole. Maybe?

"do you think the music industry ever respected them?"

Yes, I do. For a time, Journey was the hottest thing in music. They received massive promotion, awesome production and huge touring offers. They were long seen as a great live act, and there is no greater respect than THAT.

[pdsidd]

Time will tell, Amanda.. Time will tell.. JSS has some awesome talent!

The music industry doesn't CARE about music like Journey's anymore.

What are such bands whittled down to nowadays? Nostalgia acts and commentary volunteers on VH-1 shows.

Yes, JSS has some awesome talent - but I don't feel like it's going to be recognized by the music industry. Only fans.

I don't know that Industry particularly cares about any resources and Journey to them will be a resource, a column on the balance sheet. However, what the industry will notice is a band that is shifting a ton of merchandise and selling out venues across the states and Europe. Industry will notice the fact that much of the market for this band are people in the 30-50 age range i.e people with more disposable income than the teenies. If Journey can get away with £35 / $70 per seat and sell out venues nearly six months (Manchester, Newcastle) in advance in the U.K. and have to schedule more dates they will be definitely be taken seriously - they're a hot ticket - they'll be being taken seriously in my opinion.

There's a difference between critical acclaim and being taken seriously by the industry. As I see it JRNY have always been known for three things:- great music. great musicians, great songs. If the industry can't take that seriously then the industry has problems.

[Crazie Scarab]

Time will tell, Amanda.. Time will tell.. JSS has some awesome talent!

The music industry doesn't CARE about music like Journey's anymore.

What are such bands whittled down to nowadays? Nostalgia acts and commentary volunteers on VH-1 shows.

Yes, JSS has some awesome talent - but I don't feel like it's going to be recognized by the music industry. Only fans.

To places like Rolling Stone and the like, no they never got any respect and probably never will. But, tour promoters did, do and will continue to respect Journey. We'll have to see what happens on radio. Radio needs a change as well, as far as I'm concerned.

[Amanda]

Nevermind.

[pdsidd]

Time will tell, Amanda.. Time will tell.. JSS has some awesome talent!

The music industry doesn't CARE about music like Journey's anymore.

What are such bands whittled down to nowadays? Nostalgia acts and commentary volunteers on VH-1 shows.

Yes, JSS has some awesome talent - but I don't feel like it's going to be recognized by the music industry. Only fans.

To places like Rolling Stone and the like, no they never got any respect and probably never will. But, tour promoters did, do and will continue to respect Journey. We'll have to see what happens on radio. Radio needs a change as well, as far as I'm concerned.

Couldn't agree more with this post. Radio sucks in the UK although I've heard it's better over the pond.

[Crazie Scarab]

Nevermind.

Oh, come on Amanda.. spit it out!

[Amanda]

Nevermind.

Oh, come on Amanda.. spit it out!

Sorry, just a writer's thing with me... I have to make sure I really like my post before posting it

How come tour promoters don't love them as much as Bon Jovi or Aerosmith? From the way I'm taking it, it seems like that is the pedastal JSS Journey is being held up to.

[Amanda]

There's a difference between critical acclaim and being taken seriously by the industry. As I see it JRNY have always been known for three things:- greatmusic. great musicians, great songs. If the industry can't take that seriously then the industry has problems.

OK, valid point there.

As far as tour promotion today - I do not see them being taken any more seriously than some other acts that are not Journey's caliber. I don't see that as wholly respectful. Like I said in a previous post, Bon Jovi and Aerosmith get a lot more of this respect.

[Crazie Scarab]

Nevermind.

Oh, come on Amanda.. spit it out!

Sorry, just a writer's thing with me... I have to make sure I really like my post before posting it

How come tour promoters don't love them as much as Bon Jovi or Aerosmith?

I don't know that they aren't. I saw Aerosmith a couple years ago and to tell you the truth, I wasn't all that impressed. And, I like Aerosmith. Never seen Bon Jovi. Point is, I never see/hear any more promotion by promoters for Bon Jovi or Aerosmith than there is for Journey. U2 is a different story. For some reason, U2 gets all kinds of recognition. I like U2. But, I don't understand why they get so much attention? They ain't that great if you ask me.

[pdsidd]

There's a difference between critical acclaim and being taken seriously by the industry. As I see it JRNY have always been known for three things:- greatmusic. great musicians, great songs. If the industry can't take that seriously then the industry has problems.

OK, valid point there.

As far as tour promotion today - I do not see them being taken any more seriously than some other acts that are not Journey's caliber. I don't see that as wholly respectful. Like I said in a previous post, Bon Jovi and Aerosmith get a lot more of this respect.

Amanda, that is a very valid point. My point was that the industry doesn't care about the music - what it does is balance investment against return and they'll see a certain amount of return from journey that dictates the amount of promotion they're willing to put in. However, I imagine they'll see how well this tour has done particularly in Europe (can't really comment on U.S.) and promote accordingly, they'll be particularly aware of the fact that JRNY have already sold our a couple of venues nearly 6 months in advance.

[Amanda]

Amanda, that is a very valid point. My point was that the industry doesn't care about the music - what it does is balance investment against return and they'll see a certain amount of return from journey that dictates the amount of promotion they're willing to put in. However, I imagine they'll see how well this tour has done particularly in Europe (can't really comment on U.S.) and promote accordingly, they'll be particularly aware of the fact that JRNY have already sold our a couple of venues nearly 6 months in advance.

Now, that begs the question - would they have sold out that many venues if they had played in Europe consistently, year after year, like they have done in the U.S.?

[donnaplease]

Time will tell, Amanda.. Time will tell.. JSS has some awesome talent!

The music industry doesn't CARE about music like Journey's anymore.

What are such bands whittled down to nowadays? Nostalgia acts and commentary volunteers on VH-1 shows.

Yes, JSS has some awesome talent - but I don't feel like it's going to be recognized by the music industry. Only fans.

But isn't that typical for Journey??? They were never truly 'acclaimed' by the music industry. But THE FANS were what put Journey on the map. Was that way once...I think can be again. JMO.

[Amanda]

I don't know that they aren't. I saw Aerosmith a couple years ago and to tell you the truth, I wasn't all that impressed. And, I like Aerosmith. Never seen Bon Jovi. Point is, I never see/hear any more promotion by promoters for Bon Jovi or Aerosmith than there is for Journey. U2 is a different story. For some reason, U2 gets all kinds of recognition. I like U2. But, I don't understand why they get so much attention? They ain't that great if you ask me.

Compare Bon Jovi's UK-area tour to Journey's UK-tour tour from 2006:

Bon Jovi
3 June, 2006 - Glasgow @ Hampden Park
4 June, 2006 - Manchester @ City of Mancester Stadium
7 June, 2006 - Coventry @ Ricoh Arena
9 June, 2006 - Southampton @ The Friends Provident St Mary's Stadium
11 June, 2006 - London, England @ Wembley Stadium

Journey
06/02/06 Edinburgh Playhouse Edinburgh, Scotland SOLD OUT Review
06/03/06 Monsters of Rock @ National Bowl Milton Keynes, UK Now Review
06/05/06 Apollo Manchester, UK SOLD OUT Review

Am I correct to assume that these STADIUMS are larger than where Journey played?

And go to Bon Jovi's Tour Page to see how many shows they've sold out compared to Journey/Def Leppard....

[pdsidd]

Amanda, that is a very valid point. My point was that the industry doesn't care about the music - what it does is balance investment against return and they'll see a certain amount of return from journey that dictates the amount of promotion they're willing to put in. However, I imagine they'll see how well this tour has done particularly in Europe (can't really comment on U.S.) and promote accordingly, they'll be particularly aware of the fact that JRNY have already sold our a couple of venues nearly 6 months in advance.

Now, that begs the question - would they have sold out that many venues if they had played in Europe consistently, year after year, like they have done in the U.S.?

I was always under the impression that SteveP wouldn't come to Europe (might not be based on any kind of facts just what folks said but on saying that don't think he ever toured UK when he did his solo stuff). All I know is when they played Edinburgh last year they must have realised what they'd missed out on by not coming to the UK- I've never been to a show like that when everyone was out of there seats singing along to every song for I don't know two and a half hours right from the first notes from Mr Schon's guitar right to the end.

And no miming/tapes were witnessed by this fan that night. That's my belief and all the forum posts in the world won't change that view - or the view of the thousands in the Playhouse that night.

[Amanda]

But isn't that typical for Journey??? They were never truly 'acclaimed' by the music industry. But THE FANS were what put Journey on the map. Was that way once...I think can be again. JMO.

Hmm, I don't know about that. Journey's handling of the whole lead singer situation left a sizable dent in a fervant fan base... they've got to build that up again.

[Crazie Scarab]

I don't know that they aren't. I saw Aerosmith a couple years ago and to tell you the truth, I wasn't all that impressed. And, I like Aerosmith. Never seen Bon Jovi. Point is, I never see/hear any more promotion by promoters for Bon Jovi or Aerosmith than there is for Journey. U2 is a different story. For some reason, U2 gets all kinds of recognition. I like U2. But, I don't understand why they get so much attention? They ain't that great if you ask me.

Compare Bon Jovi's UK-area tour to Journey's UK-tour tour from 2006:

Bon Jovi
3 June, 2006 - Glasgow @ Hampden Park
4 June, 2006 - Manchester @ City of Mancester Stadium
7 June, 2006 - Coventry @ Ricoh Arena
9 June, 2006 - Southampton @ The Friends Provident St Mary's Stadium
11 June, 2006 - London, England @ Wembley Stadium

Journey
06/02/06 Edinburgh Playhouse Edinburgh, Scotland SOLD OUT Review
06/03/06 Monsters of Rock @ National Bowl Milton Keynes, UK Now Review
06/05/06 Apollo Manchester, UK SOLD OUT Review

Am I correct to assume that these STADIUMS are larger than where Journey played?

And go to Bon Jovi's Tour Page to see how many show's they've sold out compared to Journey....

I'm not saying you're wrong, Amanda. They may have bigger shows and more shows sold out. My point is, is that I don't see any more promotion on the radio than Journey. At least not in southern CA. there isn't. U2, on the otherhand gets massive attention when they're in the area.

[Crazie Scarab]

Journey's handling of the whole lead singer situation left a sizable dent in a fervant fan base... they've got to build that up again.

I totally agree with that statement!

[pdsidd]

I don't know that they aren't. I saw Aerosmith a couple years ago and to tell you the truth, I wasn't all that impressed. And, I like Aerosmith. Never seen Bon Jovi. Point is, I never see/hear any more promotion by promoters for Bon Jovi or Aerosmith than there is for Journey. U2 is a different story. For some reason, U2 gets all kinds of recognition. I like U2. But, I don't understand why they get so much attention? They ain't that great if you ask me.

Compare Bon Jovi's UK-area tour to Journey's UK-tour tour from 2006:

Bon Jovi
3 June, 2006 - Glasgow @ Hampden Park
4 June, 2006 - Manchester @ City of Mancester Stadium
7 June, 2006 - Coventry @ Ricoh Arena
9 June, 2006 - Southampton @ The Friends Provident St Mary's Stadium
11 June, 2006 - London, England @ Wembley Stadium

Journey
06/02/06 Edinburgh Playhouse Edinburgh, Scotland SOLD OUT Review
06/03/06 Monsters of Rock @ National Bowl Milton Keynes, UK Now Review
06/05/06 Apollo Manchester, UK SOLD OUT Review

Am I correct to assume that these STADIUMS are larger than where Journey played?

And go to Bon Jovi's Tour Page to see how many shows they've sold out compared to Journey/Def Leppard....

Yes, you're correct they're bigger but let's be honest, JRNY hadn't been to the UK for 25 years - would you book venues like Wembely Stadium blind?

The venues this time are bigger which is only right (I had to fly up to Scotland to catch Journey in June) but still not the same size as the venues that Bon Jovi are booked into but the Industry will be noticing the fact that they are still a crowd-pleaser that is shifting a lot of merchandise and selling a lot of tickets. Might not be the same scale as Bon Jovi but then again, are Bon Jovi the same scale as the Stones or Pink Floyd - no, it's all relative!

[Amanda]

I'm not saying you're wrong, Amanda. They may have bigger shows and more shows sold out. My point is, is that I don't see any more promotion on the radio than Journey. At least not in southern CA. there isn't. U2, on the otherhand gets massive attention when they're in the area.

Let's just take U2 out of this, they're just totally another story - I never quite understood it either

I guess you missed Bon Jovi on Oprah, on the Today Show, Larry King Live... I won't use local promotion as an argument, because they get considerably more where I live, because they're from NJ. But those are NATIONAL promotions.

And I don't think this has anything to do with the PR. If people want them, they'll come a-knockin'.

[Enigma869]

How come tour promoters don't love them as much as Bon Jovi or Aerosmith? From the way I'm taking it, it seems like that is the pedastal JSS Journey is being held up to.

I'm not sure Aerosmith is a great barometer. Aerosmith is considered to be a legendary rock band (for the record, I am a much bigger fan of Journey than I am of Aerosmith, in spite of them being a Boston band!) I think Aerosmith is simply the type of band who could put out a less than stellar cd and still sell a boatload of copies. They simply have that kind of reputation and the same band members that they've had forever!

Now, your Bon Jovi question is probably more apropos. As I see it, Bon Jovi's music of today is nowhere near as good as their music was back in the early 80's. They still sell what I think is inferior music, because they understand the promotion game! I think it almost always comes down to management. I've always believed Journey's management was inept! Look at this recent tour...Def Leppard was on EVERY freakin' show on tv (cable and otherwise!), promoting this tour. I didn't see Journey ANYWHERE on any show, promoting ANYTHING! I still don't see Journey ever being taken seriously by the music industry again, without Steve Perry. I hope I'm wrong, but there is enough evidence out there to suggest that I'm probably not.

John from Boston

[donnaplease]

I'm not saying you're wrong, Amanda. They may have bigger shows and more shows sold out. My point is, is that I don't see any more promotion on the radio than Journey. At least not in southern CA. there isn't. U2, on the otherhand gets massive attention when they're in the area.

Let's just take U2 out of this, they're just totally another story - I never quite understood it either

I guess you missed Bon Jovi on Oprah, on the Today Show, Larry King Live... I won't use local promotion as an argument, because they get considerably more where I live, because they're from NJ. But those are NATIONAL promotions.

And I don't think this has anything to do with the PR. If people want them, they'll come a-knockin'.

Bon Jovi's not a really good comparison. JBJ has been acting, and of course there's the Richie Sambora/Heather Locklear/Denise Richards triangle that's gotten lots of press. His name is much more recognizable, even without the band. Were his appearances on those shows to promote his band?

Bottom line is they've got to get radio play. And to do that, they've gotta get in the studio. Now that the tour is over, there's an opportunity for that to happen. Work you magic, boys!!!

[Amanda]

I'm not sure Aerosmith is a great barometer.

John - I meant it from the point that many fans hold Journey up into this "legendary band" status, whereas the music industry does not.

[Saint John]

Nevermind.

Oh, come on Amanda.. spit it out!

Sorry, just a writer's thing with me... I have to make sure I really like my post before posting it

How come tour promoters don't love them as much as Bon Jovi or Aerosmith? From the way I'm taking it, it seems like that is the pedastal JSS Journey is being held up to.

Bon Jovi and Aerosmith have their signature voices. Tour promoters would line up should Steve Perry ever front Journey again. As for JSS, only time will tell. Their next album will be a "make or break" one. It HAS to be successful or he will be trounced as another "Perry imitator." Unfair? Yes. But sadly, true. I respect the hell out of his vocal abilities, stage presence and most of all, the way he has reached out to fans. However, fronting Journey at this stage of the game is something I don't envy. JSS, like Augeri, is seemingly entering a "no win" situation. Although much more talented than Augeri, it is ultimately Perry that he will be compared to. THAT is something that will sadly ALWAYS come with fronting Journey, regardless of who it is.

[Amanda]

I think it almost always comes down to management. I've always believed Journey's management was inept!

Do you think the problem lies within Journey management? How about Journey themselves? They're the ones who hired the management... perhaps they just don't give a shit anymore. I think Neal's been in the business long enough to know what promotion is.