Stupid tape gate discussion

[Enigma869]

I think it almost always comes down to management. I've always believed Journey's management was inept!

Do you think the problem lies within Journey management? How about Journey themselves? They're the ones who hired the management... perhaps they just don't give a shit anymore. I think Neal's been in the business long enough to know what promotion is.

Amanda...

I think you're probably 100% correct on that point. Ultimately, it is Journey who hires their management, so they are the ones are are responsible if their management team isn't getting results. As someone who is a fan of both Journey and Def Leppard, I was just somewhat surprised that Journey didn't appear anywhere to promote such an enormous tour, while DL seemed to be on a different tv show every week of the tour! Again, it's probably the Perry bias at work again. Someone raised a very good point about your Bon Jovi/Aerosmith comparison. Jon Bon Jovi and Steven Tyler are the voices who made all of their songs famous and are still the guys leading these two bands. I know it's an "old argument" and many people don't want to believe that the lead singer is that big of a deal, but I think it really is that big of a deal. As with everything, time will tell.

John from Boston

[Tom Jrnyfn]

I think it almost always comes down to management. I've always believed Journey's management was inept!

Do you think the problem lies within Journey management? How about Journey themselves? They're the ones who hired the management... perhaps they just don't give a shit anymore. I think Neal's been in the business long enough to know what promotion is.

Amanda...

I think you're probably 100% correct on that point. Ultimately, it is Journey who hires their management, so they are the ones are are responsible if their management team isn't getting results. As someone who is a fan of both Journey and Def Leppard, I was just somewhat surprised that Journey didn't appear anywhere to promote such an enormous tour, while DL seemed to be on a different tv show every week of the tour! Again, it's probably the Perry bias at work again. Someone raised a very good point about your Bon Jovi/Aerosmith comparison. Jon Bon Jovi and Steven Tyler are the voices who made all of their songs famous and are still the guys leading these two bands. I know it's an "old argument" and many people don't want to believe that the lead singer is that big of a deal, but I think it really is that big of a deal. As with everything, time will tell.

John from Boston

John, I think perry has a hold on them more than we think..I'm wondering if that is the reason the offical site can not offer more to the fans..IE, permission etc..

[Amanda]

As with everything, time will tell.

Que sera, sera.

But the one thing I'm 100% certain on:

If Journey were a publicly traded company, you can be sure as shit I wouldn't be a stockholder

[Monker]

As with everything, time will tell.

Que sera, sera.

But the one thing I'm 100% certain on:

If Journey were a publicly traded company, you can be sure as shit I wouldn't be a stockholder

LOL...too true.

[Enigma869]

As with everything, time will tell.

Que sera, sera.

But the one thing I'm 100% certain on:

If Journey were a publicly traded company, you can be sure as shit I wouldn't be a stockholder

Amen to that, Amanda! I can tell you as someone who runs a company, Journey is a VERY poorly run "company", and if they were a publically traded company, the value of their stock would be about a penny I still enjoy the music and always will. I just wish they had some better guidance behind them. Perry always got a lot of criticism for running the show, when he was in the band, but, nobody can argue with the success that Perry orchestrated!

John from Boston

[pdsidd]

As with everything, time will tell.

Que sera, sera.

But the one thing I'm 100% certain on:

If Journey were a publicly traded company, you can be sure as shit I wouldn't be a stockholder

Amen to that, Amanda! I can tell you as someone who runs a company, Journey is a VERY poorly run "company", and if they were a publically traded company, the value of their stock would be about a penny I still enjoy the music and always will. I just wish they had some better guidance behind them. Perry always got a lot of criticism for running the show, when he was in the band, but, nobody can argue with the success that Perry orchestrated!

John from Boston

But wasn't that to a certain extent the right people making the right music at the right time?? You could put SteveP back into the band now but it wouldn't make them as successful as they were at their peak in 81/82. As to them being a poorly run company, yes they could probably make more and whoever is in charge of their p.r. stretegy would want changing pretty quickly but let's face it - they aren't doing too bad for guys of their age (JSS excepted obviously). They might think the return is quite acceptable?

[The_Noble_Cause]

Bullshit. They all stood behind him. They are ALL to blame. The ones who believe otherwise just want to kiss the band's ass.

Neal is a force of nature. The man just wants to play his guitar for people.
You can also make the case that they are greedy mofos.
They are all culpable, but the buck stops with Augeri.
He went out there and faked it.
Neal was real, Jon was real, Deen was real etc etc.

It's funny...you read the interviews on THIS VERY SITE from last year and their is ABSOLUTELY NO CLUE that anybody is unhappy with anybody.

Did u actually read the interviews on this site?
Neal bemoaned that if Augeri didn't get his voice together it was going to be an extremely long tour.
There was an overhanging cloud of malaise in the interviews and I pm-ed Andrew after reading them and immediately told him so.
Prior to that, in another interview, Neal extoled Jeff's talent over Augeri's.
Stating (paraphrasing here) "Augeri is perfect for where we're at right now, but Jeff can sing anything."
Just prior to the UK mini-tour Neal turned on Steve and said in an interview "No, he's no Steve Perry."
The writing was all over the wall, u just weren't paying attention.

Now you try to make Neal look 'nice' because he would have been 'happy' for Augeri to quit?

I've repeatedly said they are all at fault.
But Neal's playing was 100% real.
The only thing he is guilt of is being greedy.
Something fans have known forever.

Nothing was FORCING Neal to peform with Augeri.

Herbie says the band NEEDS to tour. They are all financially beholden to going out there.
Either way, I'm not going to fault them for liking money.

[The_Noble_Cause]

How would you know? Neal controls Augeri and whether or not he sings for the band! Don't be a dumbass thinking otherwise.

Steve is a full-fledged member and a full equal partner.
One of Deen's relatives confirmed this on BT.
Steve's contract was not on a pro tempore basis.
If that was the case, getting rid of him would've been a whole lot smoother.

[Saint John]

As with everything, time will tell.

Que sera, sera.

But the one thing I'm 100% certain on:

If Journey were a publicly traded company, you can be sure as shit I wouldn't be a stockholder

Why WOULDN'T you be a stockholder? They turn a profit EVERY year. They put nothing into promtion or advertising and still tour year after year making money annually. They take few chances, are as tough as teflon and seem to be a never-ending money machine. The re-issues are selling and Greatest Hits just passed 14 million. All of this with NO overhead. I'm glad you're not MY financial advisor.

[ohsherrie]

As someone who is a fan of both Journey and Def Leppard, I was just somewhat surprised that Journey didn't appear anywhere to promote such an enormous tour, while DL seemed to be on a different tv show every week of the tour! Again, it's probably the Perry bias at work again. Someone raised a very good point about your Bon Jovi/Aerosmith comparison. Jon Bon Jovi and Steven Tyler are the voices who made all of their songs famous and are still the guys leading these two bands. I know it's an "old argument" and many people don't want to believe that the lead singer is that big of a deal, but I think it really is that big of a deal. As with everything, time will tell.

John from Boston

I wonder if their hesitance to appear on TV was because they didn't do too well with the two that they did with Augeri. They sounded bad on the one I've seen(Blind Date), and from what I read on the boards after the CBS Early Show appearance that was't any better. Maybe they realized that Augeri just didn't have what it took for successful TV appearances. Not having Steve Perry fronting the band may well be part of it, but they could overcome some of that by focusing on promoting the new voice that they have now instead of just pretending they're still the band they were with Perry and hoping no one will know the difference. You're right it is a big deal when you go from the power and charisma of Perry to the lackluster voice and performance style of Augeri, but they've got another powerful, charismatic singer now.

[The_Noble_Cause]

I wonder if their hesitance to appear on TV was because they didn't do too well with the two that they did with Augeri. They sounded bad on the one I've seen(Blind Date), and from what I read on the boards after the CBS Early Show appearance that was't any better.

The CBS Morning Show was a disaster.
Here Sony was placing good money on the line to promote a Perry-less Journey (quite the gamble) and the band failed to deliver.
For many, this was their introduction to the new singer and here Augeri is trying to falsetto his way thru "Don't Stop Believing" and "Any Way You Want It".

A low water mark for Journey to be sure.

[RossValoryRocks]

As with everything, time will tell.

Que sera, sera.

But the one thing I'm 100% certain on:

If Journey were a publicly traded company, you can be sure as shit I wouldn't be a stockholder

Then you are stupid. Journey makes a ton of money touring. Lots of profits equal lots of dividends for the stock holders.
Good thing you aren't an investment advisor 'Manda...you would be bankrupting your clients.

[Saint John]

As with everything, time will tell.

Que sera, sera.

But the one thing I'm 100% certain on:

If Journey were a publicly traded company, you can be sure as shit I wouldn't be a stockholder

Then you are stupid. Journey makes a ton of money touring. Lots of profits equal lots of dividends for the stock holders.
Good thing you aren't an investment advisor 'Manda...you would be bankrupting your clients.

Spot on RVR. EXACTLY what I said earlier......

Why WOULDN'T you be a stockholder? They turn a profit EVERY year. They put nothing into promtion or advertising and still tour year after year making money annually. They take few chances, are as tough as teflon and seem to be a never-ending money machine. The re-issues are selling and Greatest Hits just passed 14 million. All of this with NO overhead. I'm glad you're not MY financial advisor.

[Amanda]

As with everything, time will tell.

Que sera, sera.

But the one thing I'm 100% certain on:

If Journey were a publicly traded company, you can be sure as shit I wouldn't be a stockholder

Then you are stupid. Journey makes a ton of money touring. Lots of profits equal lots of dividends for the stock holders.
Good thing you aren't an investment advisor 'Manda...you would be bankrupting your clients.

Dude - I work with letters, not numbers... haha. Maybe I would be a stockholder with Perry Inc

[Andrew]

Jesus, when will Journey get over their paranoid communist mentality about communication??? No news about a sick lead singer in four months, now Andrew can't release interviews this week as promised (surprise)! I love the hell out of Journey music, but I have to say on a personal level they begin to disgust the hell out of me. Get over yourselves Journey! Quit being a bunch of paronoid control freaks, and quit hiding so much! Do you think it will even matter? Just be honest!

Any business situation like the Journey machine is always going to be a complicated situation. Things are in motion and before the business is delt with, we have to wait....sadly....

[Andrew]

Don't believe they lost respect from the fans maybe some folks on the internet but the vast majority of JRNY fans probably don't know of MR or BT so how would they know? Still doesn't alter the question - why would you need to change the singer if you were using tapes - he could have had his throat ripped out by wolves earlier in the day and could still mime couldn't he? so why change singers? And why cancel that festival in Chile due to throat problems if it's on tape?

I mean no disrespect, but if you don't understand the implications of the allegations and the need to fix that situation, then you are probably better off not posting rearding the subject.

It is very plain and clear what needed to be done.

[Andrew]

Good points. However, they certainly weren't going to gain any industry respect by way of the road they were travelling, before JSS came on board. I guess I should have been a little more specific.

Even with JSS's talent, I don't think they're going to gain much respect. In fact, if I were the music industry, I'd be laughing my ass off that a band changed lead singers yet again. All this ebb and flow does NOTHING for Journey music industry-wise.

Actually, they have earned more respect this tour than any tour since the 80s. That's the overwhelming and undisputable facts...and mgmt know this.

[Andrew]

How would you know? Neal controls Augeri and whether or not he sings for the band! Don't be a dumbass thinking otherwise.

Steve is a full-fledged member and a full equal partner.

Correct.

[pdsidd]

Don't believe they lost respect from the fans maybe some folks on the internet but the vast majority of JRNY fans probably don't know of MR or BT so how would they know? Still doesn't alter the question - why would you need to change the singer if you were using tapes - he could have had his throat ripped out by wolves earlier in the day and could still mime couldn't he? so why change singers? And why cancel that festival in Chile due to throat problems if it's on tape?

I mean no disrespect, but if you don't understand the implications of the allegations and the need to fix that situation, then you are probably better off not posting rearding the subject.

It is very plain and clear what needed to be done.

Fair enough, I might not understand the implications of the allegations.

But my point all along has always been where's the proof, the evidence? Other than on here has it been reported in say magazines of international renoun for example? It's easy to get something on the Internet where's there's no way of redress if you're slandered however it's a different matter when it's in print on paper -

So what I'm saying is that if some high profile magazine has printed an article where there is an admission by the band that this is the case then I'm a believer. Can you point me to a Kerrang article or the American equivalent please?

[Rockindeano]

No, I can't point you to the magazines or papers that might have run this story, because it never got that far.

As the person who spearheaded this, I was NEVER about to hand this over to a magazine or paper. I love these guys, and just wanted to help fix the problem and get the machine back on track. Never in my wildest dreams did I think it would turn out this well.

Note to all disbelievers and haters: I would never cut the Bands' knees off. I just wanted them to be correct again, and when they went live, I dropped everything. Now, as you can plainly see, everything is perfect.

[pdsidd]

No, I can't point you to the magazines or papers that might have run this story, because it never got that far.

As the person who spearheaded this, I was NEVER about to hand this over to a magazine or paper. I love these guys, and just wanted to help fix the problem and get the machine back on track. Never in my wildest dreams did I think it would turn out this well.

Note to all disbelievers and haters: I would never cut the Bands' knees off. I just wanted them to be correct again, and when they went live, I dropped everything. Now, as you can plainly see, everything is perfect.

Case not proven then, as they'd say in Scotland - Particularly those in Edinburgh Playhouse June 2nd 2006, 8pm

[Rockindeano]

You are absolutely correct. Case NOT proven. It was all just a hoax. I am sorry to those that I tricked. He NEVER mimed or lipped. It was all just a joke.

I am sorry.

[duke22]

For those that have never met Rockin'Deano I can attest to what he is saying. If you go by what you interpreted you read and never actually talked to the guy, you shouldn't comment.

I don't even have a lot to go on except for this past weekend, but I have never met someone who gets so much crap for caring about the band.

I am new here and will probably get jumped on for this but hey everyone needs to get initiated sometime.

[heardonthestreet]

You are absolutely correct. Case NOT proven. It was all just a hoax. I am sorry to those that I tricked. He NEVER mimed or lipped. It was all just a joke.

I am sorry.

..............................
Tell it to the judge.

[pdsidd]

For those that have never met Rockin'Deano I can attest to what he is saying. If you go by what you interpreted you read and never actually talked to the guy, you shouldn't comment.

I don't even have a lot to go on except for this past weekend, but I have never met someone who gets so much crap for caring about the band.

I am new here and will probably get jumped on for this but hey everyone needs to get initiated sometime.

Am new here too and hope y'all accept my apologies - I didn't realise everyone had to speak to Rockin'Deano before they could make a comment on this. Glad he cares about the band.

All I know is what I saw and heard when I saw and heard the band in June. I can believe in my view based on my ears and eyes and if there is no EVIDENCE to change my view then I'm entitled to stick with my belief and say so.

[fred_journeyman]

...If you go by what you interpreted you read and <b>never actually talked to the guy</b>, you shouldn't comment...

(emphasis added)

I have to say that is one of the funniest comments I've ever read on any board!

[Rockindeano]

All I know is what I saw and heard when I saw and heard the band in June. I can believe in my view based on my ears and eyes and if there is no EVIDENCE to change my view then I'm entitled to stick with my belief and say so.

I am telling you, that you are absolutely correct. Steve Augeri DID sing every song live. There is no question.

[Mark H]

No, I can't point you to the magazines or papers that might have run this story, because it never got that far.

As the person who spearheaded this, I was NEVER about to hand this over to a magazine or paper. I love these guys, and just wanted to help fix the problem and get the machine back on track. Never in my wildest dreams did I think it would turn out this well.

Note to all disbelievers and haters: I would never cut the Bands' knees off. I just wanted them to be correct again, and when they went live, I dropped everything. Now, as you can plainly see, everything is perfect.

Case not proven then, as they'd say in Scotland - Particularly those in Edinburgh Playhouse June 2nd 2006, 8pm

In some respect I'm with you pds, as I was at 4 of the Euro shows, all within the first 5 rows and would swear Steve was singing live..warts n all. However, that fact that Deano is still friendly the band (witness last weeks party) to me lends some validity to his accusations. Maybe its all true, partly true, maybe it was in Europe, maybe in the US only..who knows.

I don't often agree with Deano, especially with the amount of vitriol he can spew forth at times...but have to admit he has brought a smile to my face on many many occasions and it is clear to me that he is passionate about Journey.

I guess I'll stay out to lunch on this...which is fine as I'm a fan of both Steve and Jeff and to me its more about the music and the ability to continue to provide it where it needs to be...on a stage.

If what i saw at Manchester and Edinburgh was tape then it was so good that I'll take it anyday over a show with Steve croaking.....but believe me, having seen JSS half a dozen times in solo shows.... he can deliver. I've been going to concerts since 74 and seen virtually every rock band you care to mention; JSS is one of the greatest vocalists I've seen........ever.

[heardonthestreet]

All I know is what I saw and heard when I saw and heard the band in June. I can believe in my view based on my ears and eyes and if there is no EVIDENCE to change my view then I'm entitled to stick with my belief and say so.

I am telling you, that you are absolutely correct. Steve Augeri DID sing every song live. There is no question.

...................................

Guess you have to start another blog, right?

[Moose]

I don't even have a lot to go on except for this past weekend, but I have never met someone who gets so much crap for caring about the band.

you really think that is why he gets crap? Please!