Open letter to Steve Augeri

[Matthew]

Not thrown at the bands as such but at the UK Monsters of rock festival fans have been known to piss in bottles rather than lose place in the crowd and then the bottles get launched about the crowd... not exactly hygenic but dodging the bottle has became an accepted and humerous 'sport' during the setup time between bands.

That's right, Mark. In fact, it was traditional to throw bottles of piss at Tommy Vance, the compere of the event.

On the face of it, this seemed most unreasonable because Vance's Friday Rock Show was virtually the only outlet for hard rock music in the 1980s and he - more than anyone - helped to keep the scene thriving in the UK.

But Vance kept coming back to Monsters of Rock - year after year - so I'm sure he knew that the bottles of piss were a show of gratitude and respect.

[donnaplease]

Its like a football player being injured and another player putting on his outfti and hoping no one notices it not him, if they win who cares/...a lot of people do ,the same as finding out you was so impressed with a singer only to find out its fake ....were is the talent in that?

Some Perry fans believe that this is what happened when Augeri joined Journey...

[Matthew]

Its like a football player being injured and another player putting on his outfti and hoping no one notices it not him, if they win who cares/...a lot of people do ,the same as finding out you was so impressed with a singer only to find out its fake ....were is the talent in that?

Some Perry fans believe that this is what happened when Augeri joined Journey...

Yes, Donna - some Perry fans do indeed think that.

[joybringer1]

I'm sure that Neal had no idea before you told him...please.

I think Deano means that the band didn't discover their charade had been rumbled via normal media sources, rather by Neal reading this board and the Escape To Tape blog.

Remembering their body language and general demeanour when I saw them in the UK, they were only too aware of what was going on and felt shamefaced at the absolute roaring adulation they received. I knew then that something wasn't right but obviously had no idea what it was.

[joybringer1]

But Vance kept coming back to Monsters of Rock - year after year - so I'm sure he knew that the bottles of piss were a show of gratitude and respect.

The mind boggles to imagine the crowd response if they hadn't actually LIKED him

[Matthew]

Remembering their body language and general demeanour when I saw them in the UK, they were only too aware of what was going on and felt shamefaced at the absolute roaring adulation they received. I knew then that something wasn't right.

That was my perception too, Joybringer....

[AR]

Am I seeing a pattern emerge here... supposition based on a small amount of fact. (searches for asbestos underwear )

That's funny, but some of the opinions I've seen spouted about American audiences and Americans in general are also suppositions based upon limited facts.

FYI, I think that taking isolated incidences and making sweeping generalizations from them is hysterically funny.

Euros throw piss at each other.
Americans are ignorant and travel all over the world flaunting boorish and rude behavior.
All Back Talkers are fat and live in Wisconsin........

[80s man]

but that night he was a feeble frontman who barely moved or communicated to the crowd or broke sweat.

It's interesting how ur take on it varies so much from some other people who post here & thought he was on the top of his game during all those UK shows & the greatest frontman they ever saw. I'm not putting u down for ur opinion, of course. It just goes to show that 2 people can be in the same place at the same time & have completely different experiences.

Well, I can't imagine why anyone would think Augeri was on top of his game. I really can't. If anyone on this site put up a video of Augeri at the Edinburgh show and we all watched it in the cold light of day I bet NO-ONE would say he was the greatest frontman they ever saw that night.

To be honest...Journey could have fucked up an entire concert and the Brits would have praised them to the skies. After waiting 26 years for a Journey tour of the UK the fans were DESPERATE to see them and gave them a welcome which was entirely uncritical and unconditional...

Take Faithfully at Manchester....everyone there thought that Journey did an AMAZING performance of that song...but listening to the bootleg the only amazing performace was from the crowd who were singing along. Augeri could barely sing a note - and it was actually an embarassment to the Journey name.

Does it really matter given that the Manchester crowd had a great time anyway? Probably not...I guess...but Journey have suffered badly by catering to the lowest common denominator...by the belief that they can get away with any old rubbish...and play safe with the set-lists and go through the motions.... because of the strong nostalgic feelings of the crowd...and the trouble is...this same contempt and shoddiness creeps into the recorded work too.

Actually - as a Scot who was at the Edinburgh gig - i was having a great time cos those classics songs were being delivered by most of the men who made them, but i do remember thinking Augeri was not much of a frontman and that Jon Cain looked bored, but again, as someone above pointed out, Neal was fantastic and the band were tight....i think it will be much much better with JSS at the helm.

[JrnyScarab]

Actually - as a Scot who was at the Edinburgh gig - i was having a great time cos those classics songs were being delivered by most of the men who made them, but i do remember thinking Augeri was not much of a frontman and that Jon Cain looked bored, but again, as someone above pointed out, Neal was fantastic and the band were tight....i think it will be much much better with JSS at the helm.

It IS much better with JSS at the helm. No comparison. Let the good times roll!

[The_Noble_Cause]

Wonder if you would have gone down the same public pillory route if it had been Perry's voice faltering, after all, 'evidence' suggests even he wouldn't have been able to do the Dirty Dozen justice at his advancing years if he'd stayed with them from TBF?

Let's not delve into "what ifs".
Perry probably knows his vocal agility has diminished.
That is why he bowed out on top.

[The_Noble_Cause]

- you may know that these are facts but if you fail to provide sufficient details of your evidence you can't be surpised that some take it only as hearsay.

Deano's blog went into heart-wrenching detail on what was Steve's true voice and what was a tape deck.
He broke it down into the minutes and seconds, and pin-pointed moments exactly where the tape switched off and the live feed began.
Technologically-inclined members on this forum conducted their own tests.
Members on other forums did this, as well.
If u missed out that unfortunate.

But the band has moved on and there is no reason to go into depth on the band's darkest period.

You may well know what elements SA sang but your trying to convince a possibly hostile audience you need to back up with evidence, not merely more statements.

I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. As an observer of Journey history I am merely setting the record straight.

and lipping the whole shows since 05 as some have cited, paints a completely different picture than assistance on some song portions.

But nobody is saying it was contained to assistance on portions. That would be an accurate description of many shows during the 2004 tour.
All songs in '05 were tape except for "Loving Touching Squeezing."
Augeri would ad-lip 40 seconds or so at the end of a song, or he'd address the crowd in a mid-part of "Faith in the Heartland", or he'd warble his way thru 1 minute of "Harm's Way."

What was truly sung is negligible.

Its not surpising that some people are sceptical about the whole issue when some (not you i might add) have stated as fact that' the whole show was lipped since 05', when from personal attendance others can attest that certain shows/songs were all live.

Deano saw several shows before he had the foggiest idea what was up.
Lula saw more than him and she had no idea either.
It is EXTREMELY hard to detect in a live setting.

But again, I am not trying to win over hearts and minds here.
I know what I know and for the good of the fans I am tossing it out.
Eat it up or don't.

[ohsherrie]

...
My point was that the band can't win by apologizing. There are still a large number of people who believe the shows were live & who have even said they will go to their death believing that. By saying they were not live & apologizing for it, the band will do nothing other than upset those people further. They are already upset enough w/the lead singer switch. If they knew SA lipped, they might demand a refund &/or spread the story further. It's best for the band to carry on doing what they've been doing: say nothing about Tapegate & hope it stays w/in a few fans on internet message boards.

And yet there are people on this forum who JUST want Augeri to apologize. Personally, I do not think anyone should apologize at all. However, if anyone DOES apologize, then it should be ALL of them, not just Augeri. I don't know how to make it any clearer than that, but hopefully this has done the trick.

I don't know that I think the band or Augeri should ever have apologized because an apology implies culpability. The problem with that is that there are so many ways that what they did can be interpreted, as Fyre said in his post. How would they be able to define what they're apologizing for and to whom? To the people who went to the shows for the concert experience and were happy with what they got from that, there would be nothing to apologize for. Actually, because this scandal has been mostly contained within the internet fan community, most of the people who attended those concerts for the last two years probably have no idea they were duped. If they apologize to the people that felt they were cheated by the taped vocals, those that didn't feel that way might then feel like they had been. Then there are the fans that JRox mentioned that know about "Tapegate" and just refuse to believe it. They might feel they'd been made fools of.

I think they should have been more honest with the fans from the beginning and either taken steps to replace Augeri last year or at the very least explained what was going on with his voice and taken a break until they could work something out. The time for that has passed now though, and it seems that just ignoring that issue and moving forward with Jeff is probably the best thing to do overall.

[Carlitto H@kk]

Wonder if you would have gone down the same public pillory route if it had been Perry's voice faltering, after all, 'evidence' suggests even he wouldn't have been able to do the Dirty Dozen justice at his advancing years if he'd stayed with them from TBF?

Let's not delve into "what ifs".
Perry probably knows his vocal agility has diminished.
That is why he bowed out on top.

I love how the newbs are jumping on this shit a day late and a dollar short.
These are probably the same tards that cried as teenagers when Milli Vanilli got their Grammy taken away
and almost shit themselves when they found out that Brett Michaels does, in fact, wear a wig
It's amazing what little a the mind can imagine when you're living in La La land.

[NealIsGod]

Wonder if you would have gone down the same public pillory route if it had been Perry's voice faltering, after all, 'evidence' suggests even he wouldn't have been able to do the Dirty Dozen justice at his advancing years if he'd stayed with them from TBF?

Let's not delve into "what ifs".
Perry probably knows his vocal agility has diminished.
That is why he bowed out on top.

I love how the newbs are jumping on this shit a day late and a dollar short.
These are probably the same tards that cried as teenagers when Milli Vanilli got their Grammy taken away
and almost shit themselves when they found out that Brett Michaels does, in fact, wear a wig
It's amazing what little a the mind can imagine when you're living in La La land.

Carl, stop it. Next you'll be telling me Kevin DuBrow got hair plugs.

[Moon Beam]

You men are always good for a giggle.
Thanks fellas

[Carlitto H@kk]

Wonder if you would have gone down the same public pillory route if it had been Perry's voice faltering, after all, 'evidence' suggests even he wouldn't have been able to do the Dirty Dozen justice at his advancing years if he'd stayed with them from TBF?

Let's not delve into "what ifs".
Perry probably knows his vocal agility has diminished.
That is why he bowed out on top.

I love how the newbs are jumping on this shit a day late and a dollar short.
These are probably the same tards that cried as teenagers when Milli Vanilli got their Grammy taken away
and almost shit themselves when they found out that Brett Michaels does, in fact, wear a wig
It's amazing what little a the mind can imagine when you're living in La La land.

Carl, stop it. Next you'll be telling me Kevin DuBrow got hair plugs.

Yea, but here's the juiciest gossip of all...
Word on the street is that Jenna Jamison is NOT a natural blonde...

[Clasicrockldy]

Brett Michaels wears a wig?

[Just Mindy]

Brett Michaels wears a wig?

Shit I was just gonna ask the same thing

[heardonthestreet]

Since this topic is about Augeri, I would guess that his crucifixtion on this board and the infamous blog, are probably the worse thing that could have been done in order to accomplish a means to an end. To coin a famous saying, "There's no going back." If the band has to pay for what was accomplished in the end result, acquiring Soto, then how they went about it, is going to cost them fans and will be a part of Journey's legacy. I'm not looking at the situation through rose colored glasses as a lot of you are, that the band is better for it now.
The use of alleged use of tapes is not half as damning to me as the band allowing their frontman to shoulder all the blame and allow his name to be so besmirched on Journey's supposed, most supportive forum. It was like doing your child's homework for him and having him fail when exams came around, then letting him take all the blame.

[Clasicrockldy]

Brett Michaels wears a wig?

Shit I was just gonna ask the same thing

Lmaooo Great minds msr !

[NealIsGod]

I'm not looking at the situation through rose colored glasses as a lot of you are, that the band is better for it now.

You save those specs for all things Perry.

[Carlitto H@kk]

If the band has to pay for what was accomplished in the end result, acquiring Soto, then how they went about it, is going to cost them fans and will be a part of Journey's legacy.

This band has lost many fans and gained many new fans everytime a major line-up decision has been made since their inception.
So they'll lose a few big Augeri fans... They lost a TON more when they went on without Perry.
Fact is, the ratio of fans they will lose because of Mr Awesome's termination compared to
the amount of fans they are going to gain with Jeff onboard is WAY in Jeff and the band's favor...
They're big boys, they can handle it

[AR]

[Red13JoePa]

Since this topic is about Augeri, I would guess that his crucifixtion on this board and the infamous blog, are probably the worse thing that could have been done in order to accomplish a means to an end. To coin a famous saying, "There's no going back." If the band has to pay for what was accomplished in the end result, acquiring Soto, then how they went about it, is going to cost them fans and will be a part of Journey's legacy. I'm not looking at the situation through rose colored glasses as a lot of you are, that the band is better for it now.
The use of alleged use of tapes is not half as damning to me as the band allowing their frontman to shoulder all the blame and allow his name to be so besmirched on Journey's supposed, most supportive forum. It was like doing your child's homework for him and having him fail when exams came around, then letting him take all the blame.

What an ally Steve Augeri has in you. Surely your suddenly sympathetic statements about Augeri who you bashed for years, would remain EXACTLY THE SAME if it were Perry and not JSS, who benefited from the demise of Augeri's live voice. Right

[Wheels Of Fyre]

Honestly, as much as SA was a good singer, he was never really part of the band. In concerts, he didn't seem to gell well with the guys. Perry seemed to, but I think JSS has hit the nail on the head. There seems to be a mutual respect between JSS and the other guys. I feel bad for Augeri. I love Perry, but know that that is the past. Whatever Journey decides to do with SA and JSS is their business, but as a fan of the group as a whole, I'd ask the guys to treat both SA and JSS with a little more dignity and respect this time around if there should be a "switch".

I tend to agree. Not one person on this forum (well, maybe one), has had the type of success that fronting for a band like Journey can bring. SA was the "also ran" by most standards (hated by many from day one), and I'm sure if anyone never felt like he was truly part of the band, it was Augeri.

He is probably dealing with an extreme amount of embarrassment and wishes to just hide. The way some on this forum talk leaves the obvious impression that they suffer from a very large superiority complex, as if they themselves would never stoop to the supposed level that Augeri stooped to. I personally, have never walked in the man's shoes and cannot even begin to imagine what the daily pressure was like. Of course he could have said "You know what? My voice is giving out. Can you get someone to take over for me until it heals?" or "I need to bow out gracefully and transition things over to a new guy." He didn't and either the guys, or management or both helped with the lie. They're all culpable and they ALL should apologize to the fans, not just Augeri (with the exception of JSS).

But, Journey needs a scapegoat now so that they can continue touring and making money. It's easier to point all fingers at Augeri (and he <u>was</u> wrong), rather than assume or accept at least some of the blame.

<b>Steve: thanks for bringing Journey back from the dead and I wish you well in all your future endeavors. Not all of us are ready to run you out of town on a rail. You're human, unlike some here who apparently think they're not only above the law, but above the spectrum of frailty that exists in each of us. What you did was wrong (and I'm sure you know that)...</b>

DOH! You had me up until there.

I've asked this over and over again and NOBODY has a response: who says it was wrong?

Is there some written code/law regarding this issue? IMO it's only wrong IF the intent was to misrepresent themselves to the fans in order to rip them off. I can't see this as the intent. SA isn't a talentless Milli Vanilli "pretty boy" who was thrust onto the stage in red leather pants in order to fool everybody!

Those who have been so quick to tell me to get a life regarding what I believe in are the SAME people who have responded to Tapegate as if MURDER on the scale of genocide has been committed!!!

Who is it that really neds to get a life?

I recall other Tapegate scandals. Remember ELO? Here's a band that was put through the wringer, too. All they did was try to give their GIANT audiences the BEST possible show. The studio tricks that Jeff Lynne did with his voice could NOT be properly duplicated live so they used "help" on some of the more complicated tracks. BIG DEAL.

I just don't get the emotional outbursts to this issue. I will argue this again: studio technology is used like CRAZY on vocals and every other instrument. This is "OK" to EVERYONE and it's EXPECTED and accepted. Live shows are also enhanced including vocals BUT dare NOT lip synch - even though Britney Spears among others does it OUTWARDLY.

Where is the voice of reason on this?




Technology can be used for this but not for that. Certain people can lip synch but others who are sick can't.

Who made up these "rules" ...?

What a bunch of CRAP! The WHOLE of it.

People who pay money for any kind of show must be allowed to decide what they are paying there money for!! If i had known Augeri was miming i would not have wasted my money.By the band witholding that information from me i was not able to make a decision and therefore wastes my money.
In regard to ELO the basiccally played over studio tracks of 'Standin in the Rain' 'Sweet Talking Woman' etc thats why there was uproar.They should have got another guitarist backing singer and full orchestra. In the case of Journey they should have got a new singer. Its like a football player being injured and another player putting on his outfti and hoping no one notices it not him, if they win who cares/...a lot of people do ,the same as finding out you was so impressed with a singer only to find out its fake ....were is the talent in that?

You're the person of "acclaim" who held the nails while Deano pounded them through SA's hands.

Allow me to pull them out.

Let me ask you this:
1. Did you see JOURNEY in a where SA was lip synching?
2. If so, do you have irrefutable PROOF that he was?
3. When you left the concert did you have this proof or did you obtain it later?

[AR]

Let me ask you this:
1. Did you see JOURNEY in a where SA was lip synching?
2. If so, do you have irrefutable PROOF that he was?
3. When you left the concert did you have this proof or did you obtain it later?

1. YES
2. HAVE AN UPCLOSE DVD OF THE SHOW. (IT WAS IN A CLUB)
3. STAYED FAR BACK IN THE CLUB DURING THE SHOW, COULD NOT SEE HIS LIPS BEHIND THE BIG PUFFY MICROPHONE

PLUS MUSICIANS HAVE ANALYZED THE DAMN BOOTS WITH PRO-TOOLS

YES I AM YELLING.

[Wheels Of Fyre]

Let me ask you this:
1. Did you see JOURNEY in a where SA was lip synching?
2. If so, do you have irrefutable PROOF that he was?
3. When you left the concert did you have this proof or did you obtain it later?

1. YES
2. HAVE AN UPCLOSE DVD OF THE SHOW. (IT WAS IN A CLUB)
3. STAYED FAR BACK IN THE CLUB DURING THE SHOW, COULD NOT SEE HIS LIPS BEHIND THE BIG PUFFY MICROPHONE

PLUS MUSICIANS HAVE ANALYZED THE DAMN BOOTS WITH PRO-TOOLS

YES I AM YELLING.

And you actually yelled in English!

I'll bet bionic's answers are similar. So my next inquiry:
When you left the concert were you satisfied with it or were you dissatisfied? Why were you dissatisfied?

[heardonthestreet]

Since this topic is about Augeri, I would guess that his crucifixtion on this board and the infamous blog, are probably the worse thing that could have been done in order to accomplish a means to an end. To coin a famous saying, "There's no going back." If the band has to pay for what was accomplished in the end result, acquiring Soto, then how they went about it, is going to cost them fans and will be a part of Journey's legacy. I'm not looking at the situation through rose colored glasses as a lot of you are, that the band is better for it now.
The use of alleged use of tapes is not half as damning to me as the band allowing their frontman to shoulder all the blame and allow his name to be so besmirched on Journey's supposed, most supportive forum. It was like doing your child's homework for him and having him fail when exams came around, then letting him take all the blame.

What an ally Steve Augeri has in you. Surely your suddenly sympathetic statements about Augeri who you bashed for years, would remain EXACTLY THE SAME if it were Perry and not JSS, who benefited from the demise of Augeri's live voice. Right

.............................

Right! EXACTLY THE SAME. Under the same circumstances as have transpired with total character assassination allowed by some fans and allowed by his bandmates, Yes!

[whocares]

It's a wasted point ot bring Perry into the arguement about his voice on a tour in the 2000's. This isn't about Perry, it's about Augeri, unless I read wrong?

Some people will never accept anyone (much less something bad being said about him) other than Perry, some will never accept anything bad being said about Augeri, but ya know what? Those two guys are part of Journey's PAST. As in never to be part of the future again for as long as they both shall live. SOME people should be thankful to Jeff, IF they STILL care about "their" Journey.

I do firmly believe that Perry being the "perfectionist" that people say he is/was, would have had the balls to just up & leave, IF it had been him at ANY point. Witness the ROR tour.

[Matthew]

Let me ask you this:
1. Did you see JOURNEY in a where SA was lip synching?
2. If so, do you have irrefutable PROOF that he was?
3. When you left the concert did you have this proof or did you obtain it later?

Fyre - I'll say it again - and maybe this time you'll respond....THE BAND knew they were doing the wrong thing and made a change.

If they agreed with your take on this Augeri would still be in the band.

So for the love of God....let it go Fyre!