My take on why some think BT sux and why MR gets a bad rap

[Carlitto H@kk]

I posted this at BT and thought I would share...
Let me know your thoughts

"Management has lost control of this situation; whether it be how things were handled at the start (July) or how things have been handled since the band made the decision that moving forward with Jeff is best for the band right now. Most probably being tied up with all the legalities sure hasn't helped either. Since BT is owned and operated by Journey the Band, it is no surprise that all info is guarded and all 'rumors and speculation' are quickly hushed. It is in the best interest of of The Band and Management to silence all this talk right now because, since they own that board, personnal they currently employ and represent stand to be demoralized and that just ain't good business for ANY Band or Management firm. The Mods there definitely have a job that I would not wish on anyone.

As for MR... totally different and unaffiliated entity where discussions are free to roam in different territories and folks that may have 'inside information' are free to share. All the folks that constantly rag on MR for some of the 'harsh' commentary there fail to realize that, as a source of news and info on Journey, it is a VERY valuable and reliable site if you take the time to sort thru all the muck. Andrew is a very honest and respectable journalist that has always supported this band and constantly tries to keep the BT-vs-MR wars to a minimum. Andrew's ONLY fault right now is that he tries to moderate that board on his own and that is impossible. Look at how many Mods there are there and things STILL can't be kept under control. Of course a few ugly threads and comments are gonna slip thru the cracks."

So...
How'd I do???
Is it believable???

[styxman]

Just why MR, is going to be the site that finally issues the statement...Journey.com is dead

[KCfla]

I backed you up. I think you nailed it! ( although I don't know how much good it will do- I'm not exactly an "established" person at BT)

I've been on so many forums ( on and off) over the years. And each one has been different.
It totally depends upon the person RUNNING the place as to how things are handled. I've been on some that the place would shut down if anyone so much as farted near their computer. And some that it was "no rules at all".

You find the ones you like- and stick with them.
You don't like it- you leave.

[Gibby]

Journey management has been, and continues to be, terrible. BT is a reflection of that very fact.

[Jeremey]

It's really 2 different cliques that don't get along, nothing more that I can see. BTers appear to have a tremendous emotional investment in what they feel and believe, and for some reason they can't look at things without allowing that investment to interfere, sometimes with reality.

[dcvader]

CH,

You are right on. Very well said.

We will see how they respond.

[Clasicrockldy]

Great post, Carlitto. I agree with you on this..........

[Carlitto H@kk]

It's really 2 different cliques that don't get along, nothing more that I can see. BTers appear to have a tremendous emotional investment in what they feel and believe, and for some reason they can't look at things without allowing that investment to interfere, sometimes with reality.

It comes down to being
"A Product Of Your Enviroment".

Management has had a stranglehold on BT on what is and isn't allowed to be said there; all of those folks have been reared up with that mindset. Over here, Drew has held the riegns lightly and you see how we all act

They didn't all start off that single-minded...
But like us, they are all just "Products Of That Enviroment".

[Granny]

I too agree with Carlitto...As hard as Deano may try I doubt that the two sites will ever be united..they are just a different breed----we are free thinkers and they are followers....end of conversation!!!! G

[Carlitto H@kk]

I too agree with Carlitto...As hard as Deano may try I doubt that the two sites will ever be united..they are just a different breed----we are free thinkers and they are followers....end of conversation!!!! G

So now you're a Gangsta???

Ok, G

Granny's been hittin' the Chronic

[ohsherrie]

I too agree with Carlitto...As hard as Deano may try I doubt that the two sites will ever be united..they are just a different breed----we are free thinkers and they are followers....end of conversation!!!! G

Yep, free thinking has been totally quashed over there and it's not the fault of the posters who are left. The few like Dave28 and Carlitto who do express as much desention as is allowed are so outnumbered that they can't really effect a change. I think the best that can be accomplished is to just agree to disagree and either get along or ignore each other.

[Lula]

I too agree with Carlitto...As hard as Deano may try I doubt that the two sites will ever be united..they are just a different breed----we are free thinkers and they are followers....end of conversation!!!! G

I know you know G, Dean is being sincere in his hopes of uniting and moving on. I'm so glad you know who he really is. I have always been one to let things go, forgive and forget, etc., but this whole mentality that Dean is the devil and I slept with the enemy has truly taken a toll on me. What so many fail to see is that it is Dean's passion for Journey that caused change. Does the end justify the means? For some yes, some no. Dean has made it abundantly clear he wishes he could change some of his actions, but remember he gave as good as he got from a handful of others.

While at the Baltimore show a BT poster told Dean "you disgust me." She obviously has a problem with him , lol. Funny thing, she disgusts me . Anyway, sorry I digress, I truly hope the tensions between the two sites disappear. It is so ridiculous that there is even a reason to carry on with this. We are talking internet message boards here, not real life issues. People form opinions of others based on posts and if that works for them so be it. People are judged by one another- I have been judged harshly by a handful of chicken-shits based on my realtionship with Dean. I'm simply venting at this point. I laughed about this last night with my sister. We came across pics from last Christmas of friends that have given me the cold shoulder over internet drama, unbelievable .

Whatever Journey does or does not do at this point is irrelevant, it is done. People who take a stand and choose to close their wallets to the Journey machine should feel good about their choice and leave behind the bitterness and move onto greener pastures. Perhaps we all too often lose sight of the fact that Journey is a business and the bottom line is the almighty dollar.

I guess I'm done venting now.... and remember- this is all my own humble opinion .

[ohsherrie]

Great post Lula. Sorry you've been treated so badly.

[Deb]

I too agree with Carlitto...As hard as Deano may try I doubt that the two sites will ever be united..they are just a different breed----we are free thinkers and they are followers....end of conversation!!!! G

I know you know G, Dean is being sincere in his hopes of uniting and moving on. I'm so glad you know who he really is. I have always been one to let things go, forgive and forget, etc., but this whole mentality that Dean is the devil and I slept with the enemy has truly taken a toll on me. What so many fail to see is that it is Dean's passion for Journey that caused change. Does the end justify the means? For some yes, some no. Dean has made it abundantly clear he wishes he could change some of his actions, but remember he gave as good as he got from a handful of others.

While at the Baltimore show a BT poster told Dean "you disgust me." She obviously has a problem with him , lol. Funny thing, she disgusts me . Anyway, sorry I digress, I truly hope the tensions between the two sites disappear. It is so ridiculous that there is even a reason to carry on with this. We are talking internet message boards here, not real life issues. People form opinions of others based on posts and if that works for them so be it. People are judged by one another- I have been judged harshly by a handful of chicken-shits based on my realtionship with Dean. I'm simply venting at this point. I laughed about this last night with my sister. We came across pics from last Christmas of friends that have given me the cold shoulder over internet drama, unbelievable .

Whatever Journey does or does not do at this point is irrelevant, it is done. People who take a stand and choose to close their wallets to the Journey machine should feel good about their choice and leave behind the bitterness and move onto greener pastures. Perhaps we all too often lose sight of the fact that Journey is a business and the bottom line is the almighty dollar.

I guess I'm done venting now.... and remember- this is all my own humble opinion .

Great post Lula.

[NealIsGod]

Lula is one cool chick. Dean is lucky to have her.

[Granny]

I too agree with Carlitto...As hard as Deano may try I doubt that the two sites will ever be united..they are just a different breed----we are free thinkers and they are followers....end of conversation!!!! G

I know you know G, Dean is being sincere in his hopes of uniting and moving on. I'm so glad you know who he really is. I have always been one to let things go, forgive and forget, etc., but this whole mentality that Dean is the devil and I slept with the enemy has truly taken a toll on me. What so many fail to see is that it is Dean's passion for Journey that caused change. Does the end justify the means? For some yes, some no. Dean has made it abundantly clear he wishes he could change some of his actions, but remember he gave as good as he got from a handful of others.

While at the Baltimore show a BT poster told Dean "you disgust me." She obviously has a problem with him , lol. Funny thing, she disgusts me . Anyway, sorry I digress, I truly hope the tensions between the two sites disappear. It is so ridiculous that there is even a reason to carry on with this. We are talking internet message boards here, not real life issues. People form opinions of others based on posts and if that works for them so be it. People are judged by one another- I have been judged harshly by a handful of chicken-shits based on my realtionship with Dean. I'm simply venting at this point. I laughed about this last night with my sister. We came across pics from last Christmas of friends that have given me the cold shoulder over internet drama, unbelievable .

Whatever Journey does or does not do at this point is irrelevant, it is done. People who take a stand and choose to close their wallets to the Journey machine should feel good about their choice and leave behind the bitterness and move onto greener pastures. Perhaps we all too often lose sight of the fact that Journey is a business and the bottom line is the almighty dollar.

I guess I'm done venting now.... and remember- this is all my own humble opinion .

I love you Lula and Dean too...everyone should know him as I do....Have a Happy Thanksgiving...talk to u thursday...

[Carlitto H@kk]

I had to make some corrections to my original thoery after Cj explained to me that Journey The Band owns BT and it is NOT owned and operated by management like I originally stated in my opinion. Sorry for the error. Changes to the original post are in BOLD.

[ohsherrie]

I had to make some corrections to my original thoery after Cj explained to me that Journey The Band owns BT and it is NOT owned and operated by management like I originally stated in my opinion. Sorry for the error. Changes to the original post are in BOLD.

Geez, doesn't that make the atmosphere of repression even harder to understand?

[Andrew]

I posted this at BT and thought I would share...
Let me know your thoughts

Interesting post - interesting thread at BT and a number of interesting and emotional responses. I feel the need to comment, but will do so at my own leisure, so as to best articulate what I feel about all of this, rather than a rushed response.

[Carlitto H@kk]

I posted this at BT and thought I would share...
Let me know your thoughts

Interesting post - interesting thread at BT and a number of interesting and emotional responses. I feel the need to comment, but will do so at my own leisure, so as to best articulate what I feel about all of this, rather than a rushed response.

Uh-Oh...
Am I in trouble???

[fred_journeyman]

Dean has made it abundantly clear he wishes he could change some of his actions, but remember he gave as good as he got from a handful of others.

Dean's reputation precedes him and he built that all by himself. If he really wanted to change, he would have done so already. He can't change and some here don't want him to change.

[Enigma869]

Uh-Oh...
Am I in trouble???

Hey Carlitto...

Did CJ already boot your post??? I didn't see it in the GF or the new "bitch" forum that she put up! That would be quite shocking to see a post over at BT deleted...That never happens over there!


John from Boston

[Lula]

Great post Lula. Sorry you've been treated so badly.

Thanks. The treatment from others only revealed true characters.... another one of those life lessons.

[Lula]

Dean has made it abundantly clear he wishes he could change some of his actions, but remember he gave as good as he got from a handful of others.

Dean's reputation precedes him and he built that all by himself. If he really wanted to change, he would have done so already. He can't change and some here don't want him to change.

Come on Fred. I've only stated facts based on my personal experiences, please don't turn this into a critique of Dean.

[Carlitto H@kk]

Uh-Oh...
Am I in trouble???

Hey Carlitto...

Did CJ already boot your post??? I didn't see it in the GF or the new "bitch" forum that she put up! That would be quite shocking to see a post over at BT deleted...That never happens over there!


John from Boston

No, its there. Its buried in a VERY long thread that started lst night (and probably instigated this whole new forum) called
"What's the Big Deal?"
Its a long read but very entertaining...
Especially when BT's newest member, "OuzoJourney" shows up.
Just read it and you'll see what I mean

[Andrew]

Dean's reputation precedes him and he built that all by himself. If he really wanted to change, he would have done so already. He can't change and some here don't want him to change.

It's never too late - as the other Deen would say....

[Andrew]

I posted this at BT and thought I would share...
Let me know your thoughts

Interesting post - interesting thread at BT and a number of interesting and emotional responses. I feel the need to comment, but will do so at my own leisure, so as to best articulate what I feel about all of this, rather than a rushed response.

Uh-Oh...
Am I in trouble???

Not at all. A couple of BT posts deserve a response though. It's always disappointing to read perceptions from some that are inaccurate.

[Carlitto H@kk]

Not at all. A couple of BT posts deserve a response though. It's always disappointing to read perceptions from some that are inaccurate.

here's a little hint to anyone that checks this thread out that we are all talking about...

OuzoJourney is none other than our very own Nancy

[donnaplease]

Dean has made it abundantly clear he wishes he could change some of his actions, but remember he gave as good as he got from a handful of others.

Dean's reputation precedes him and he built that all by himself. If he really wanted to change, he would have done so already. He can't change and some here don't want him to change.

Come on Fred. I've only stated facts based on my personal experiences, please don't turn this into a critique of Dean.

Funny how that always seems to happen, huh Lula? Not just by Fred, of course. After meeting and getting to know both of you guys a little, I personally don't want to see Deano 'change'. Certainly there are things that could be a little less abrasive, but those of us who know him as a person, and not just as "Rock'n Deano, a guy who posts on an internet forum" know there's more to him than what we see on here. And that is his love of and passion for a rock band called Journey. Just hang in there you two, and keep that thick skin when people want to knock you down.

[fred_journeyman]

Come on Fred. I've only stated facts based on my personal experiences, please don't turn this into a critique of Dean.

Critiquing him? Hardly. I simply don't see Dean through the same rose-colored glasses that you do, Lulu. I see him for how he represents himself on this board...nothing more and nothing less. My point is very simple...Dean is seen as a leader among many here. He continually instigates, critiques, denigrates and insults. All I'm saying is that if he truly wants to unite BT & MR (which he STATED he wants to do), then he should start by changing his behavior HERE. Again, this is simply an observation.

And if he's been banned from posting at BT (which someone mentioned earlier), then I would think one simply phone call to Neal would get that problem solved, allowing him to move forward with his unity plan. Will people take him seriously? Based on his track record, does that question even need to be answered?