Why I Think Augieri Should Stay in Journey

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Postby Dano » Sat Nov 25, 2006 11:48 pm

Mandi wrote:While I agree with those of you who have stated that if Steve Augeri cannot sing any more, then he shouldn't be in the band. Obviously a frontman with no voice is useless to them.

However, I do not feel that Steve Augeri was useless to Journey in the eight years the was with them. He gave Neal and JC what they wanted, someone who was willing to sing Steve Perry's songs, someone who was willing to stand in the mighty shadow of Steve Perry and sing the songs he gave to the world, and be the frontman of the band Steve Perry once led. Not an easy thing to do, especially since SA was a huge fan of Mr. Perry's. He knew he would be setting himself up for comparisons and critiques, but he took the job anyway. He knew he was leaving a stable job with a pension and benefits(YES, it was the GAP, but it paid the bills, so laugh all you want) that he needed to support his family, but he did it any way.

He went into the studio with the band and recorded one of the best Journey albums ever (Arrival). He allowed the band to make a ton of money by touring for eight years. Sure, the Steve Augeri era music didn't put Journey back on the charts, but at this time in music, no one short of Mr. Perry himself could do that. Journey is quite frankly, past their prime when it comes to radio air play. Maybe JSS will change that, but maybe no one can change that. Maybe their time is just past.

Steve Augeri gave Journey eight years of his life, and he gave them happily because he lived out a dream. Now, his voice may be ruined for the rest of his life and all people can do is bash and make jokes about him. He brought Journey a ton of new fans. He brought Journey some much needed class, too. People began to see what a great person SA is, and his reputation for caring about the fans spread to the rest of the band. They ALL benefited from having SA in the band.
And when he couldn't sing anymore, they ALL knew it, and they ALL agreed to using tapes so they could keep on touring. And now the shit has hit the fan (no pun intended) and they ALL blame Steve Augeri.

I hope he does get millions out of them, although I doubt that will be the case. He is real person with a real family and very real bills to pay and a real life to live. He deserves to be compensated for not being able to continue. People will always blame him for the tapegate scandal, and now they will all blame him for the hold-up to "big News". The blame for all of this should fall on all five shoulders, not just one.

I don't mean to sound like an attorney and I certainly don't want to come in here and preach to all of you who know much more about Journey and music than I do. I just feel that there is nothing to be gained from belittling this man any more. If he is hesitating to signing anything that will effect the rest of his life, so what? Would any one here do anything less than that if it was YOUR life??
Cut him a little slack. He is gone from Journey. Jeff is the new lead singer, and Journey's future looks very bright again. Remember when we all said that eight years ago?

Mandi


Agreed totally, Mandi. It just bewilders me that eight years are being swept under the rug like nothing ever happened. I understand that emotions run high on the tape thing, but my God, to listen to most on these boards, you would think that these people have been protesting against the band for the better part of a decade! Let's face it, people: I'm willing to bet most of you would be giving JSS as much of a hard time as Augeri got if he had immediately succeeded Perry. Regardless of how it ended (and remember, that we still haven't heard all sides of the story) Augeri stepped into one of the most unenviable positions in rock and roll, succeeding a legendary vocalist with amazing talent and a fervent fanbase. Yes, his tenure may have ended badly, but he did a damn fine job for many years. Perhaps many of you might like to go back and re-read your posts from the Augeri-era to remind your selves how much you enjoyed the shows and the CD's. It seems that many will bash anything Augeri-related, when at the time you were singing his praises (no pun intended).
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Postby ohsherrie » Sun Nov 26, 2006 12:20 am

Jeremy, St John and JRox have both pretty much said it all for me. The only thing I would add is that you're right that different people hear and appreciate music differently. If you truly like Augeri's sound better that's certainly your right. :) Even though I can't understand it. :wink:

Perhaps it would be possible to find a version of Perry singing any particular song live on an off night for him and it wouldn't sound quite as good as Augeri singing it on the doctored 2001 DVD, but then that wasn't really live. Given that those were the vocals used for most of his live concerts for the last two years anything from those shows can't fairly be compared to Perry live either. To say that Augeri had a voice or delivery that was even in the same league as Perry's though is just unfathomable to me.



kbo, I said Augeri didn't churn any butter of his own while he was with Journey, meaning new music that can compare with the Perry era music. Jeff hasn't had a chance to do that yet, but so far in the shows he's done with the band he's been one cream whippin' son of a gun though. :lol: As for what the two men have done outside Journey I think others have pretty much covered that. Jeff's credentials far outweigh Augeri's.
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Postby donnaplease » Sun Nov 26, 2006 1:05 am

Dano wrote:
Agreed totally, Mandi. It just bewilders me that eight years are being swept under the rug like nothing ever happened. I understand that emotions run high on the tape thing, but my God, to listen to most on these boards, you would think that these people have been protesting against the band for the better part of a decade! Let's face it, people: I'm willing to bet most of you would be giving JSS as much of a hard time as Augeri got if he had immediately succeeded Perry. Regardless of how it ended (and remember, that we still haven't heard all sides of the story) Augeri stepped into one of the most unenviable positions in rock and roll, succeeding a legendary vocalist with amazing talent and a fervent fanbase. Yes, his tenure may have ended badly, but he did a damn fine job for many years. Perhaps many of you might like to go back and re-read your posts from the Augeri-era to remind your selves how much you enjoyed the shows and the CD's. It seems that many will bash anything Augeri-related, when at the time you were singing his praises (no pun intended).


As I've said before, I wasn't really around during the Augeri-era, but I'm a huge fan of the SP-era Journey, and now the lineup with Soto. But I think you're right, if it had been Soto immediately following SP, there would be many people protesting him for one reason or another. He doesn't have the 'look' for Journey, or whatever... I do believe that the time/distance since SP left and the fact that SP has said over and over again that he doesn't plan to re-join the group are what helps us 'loons' move on to a new singer. It's kinda like you've got someone who was controversial to start with (not his fault, understand) who has been unable to fulfill his duties vocally and has resorted to "help" in whatever capacity it was, and it is seen as something that tarnishes this great band. It doesn't matter which side of the coin you fall on regarding who knew what and how many of them are accountable, the fact is that he is the one who couldn't keep up with his end of the bargain. I've said before, I saw Augeri several years ago, and he was good, but he didn't inspire me to want to be a huge fan, unlike Steve Perry and now JSS are doing. I'm not trying to 'bash' anyone, just trying to share my opinion on things...Oh, and I guess one could argue that he really didn't give 8 years, if in up to 2 of them he really wasn't singing... :?
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Postby ArnelRox » Sun Nov 26, 2006 1:40 am

Matthew wrote:JRox - they're coming up as wmas with a file error - but this might be due to my useless Mac which is so erratic when it comes to downloads...

Yes - I'd love to hear a ROR boot! Dying to hear the Randy jackson bass solo, I have to say. :)


Damn. Only 1 of them is a wma file. Anyone techie savvy here?
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Postby The_Noble_Cause » Sun Nov 26, 2006 1:56 am

saint John wrote: Additionally, his era of music didn't have the "catchy" choruses that Perry's era did.


Well, no shit. :roll:
There are 7 Perry Journey albums to choose from, with Augeri you only have 2.
It goes without saying there are more catchy songs with Perry at the helm, the band's output back then was more prolific.

As it currently stands, despite their paltry output, the Augeri-era had plenty of catchy songs.

"Remember Me", "Signs of Life" "To Be Alive Again" "Place in Your Heart" "Better Life"....etc
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Postby The_Noble_Cause » Sun Nov 26, 2006 2:04 am

Dano wrote:Vocals are muddled? Not on any of the sound systems I've listened to those albums on. Augeri is loud and clear in the mixes on all of those. I think you're reaching there....


Many people have complained about this for years.
The lead vox on "Arrival" has always sounded muffled to me.
Strangely, WGW always sounded more upfront than the rest of the cd (perhaps because it was recorded at a later date?)
"Generations" varies dependent on what system I listen to it on.
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Postby Saint John » Sun Nov 26, 2006 2:14 am

The_Noble_Cause wrote:
saint John wrote: Additionally, his era of music didn't have the "catchy" choruses that Perry's era did.


Well, no shit. :roll:
There are 7 Perry Journey albums to choose from, with Augeri you only have 2.
It goes without saying there are more catchy songs with Perry at the helm, the band's output back then was more prolific.

As it currently stands, despite their paltry output, the Augeri-era had plenty of catchy songs.

"Remember Me", "Signs of Life" "To Be Alive Again" "Place in Your Heart" "Better Life"....etc



"Catchy songs" would have audience response and participation. Higher Place was the only song I ever saw anyone sing along with. And my best guess is about 10% of the crowd knew the words. Augeri-era music was wholeheartedly rejected by the vast majority of Journey fans.
I'll give ya "Remember Me" and "Signs Of Life" and even "Higher Place" but "To be Alive Again and "Place In Your Heart" are sappy to me. "Better Liife" is one of the most repetitive songs Journey has ever made. It's great to fall asleep to. That song goes nowhere. Uninspired monotone.
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Postby The_Noble_Cause » Sun Nov 26, 2006 2:31 am

saint John wrote:"Catchy songs" would have audience response and participation.


You're detached from reality. I don't care how catchy a song is. I don't care if it's godamn "row row row your boat", songs needs to be heard before audiences recognize they're catchy.
You make it sound like audiences should sing along and know the words before ever hearing it.

Higher Place was the only song I ever saw anyone sing along with.


Maybe because the song had some limited radio play. Maybe because that fan had download Arrival on Napster.
Whichever the case, I guarantee you that fan wasn't hearing the song for the first time.

And my best guess is about 10% of the crowd knew the words.


How could they be expected to? Current Journey music had been shunned by radio.

"Better Liife" is one of the most repetitive songs Journey has ever made. It's great to fall asleep to. That song goes nowhere. Uninspired monotone.


It does meander aimlessly, but up to a point it's a one of Generations better tunes.
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Postby Saint John » Sun Nov 26, 2006 2:37 am

The_Noble_Cause wrote:
saint John wrote:"Catchy songs" would have audience response and participation.


You're detached from reality. I don't care how catchy a song is. I don't care if it's godamn "row row row your boat", songs needs to be heard before audiences recognize they're catchy.
You make it sound like audiences should sing along and know the words before ever hearing it.

Higher Place was the only song I ever saw anyone sing along with.


Maybe because the song had some limited radio play. Maybe because that fan had download Arrival on Napster.
Whichever the case, I guarantee you that fan wasn't hearing the song for the first time.

And my best guess is about 10% of the crowd knew the words.


How could they be expected to? Current Journey music had been shunned by radio.

"Better Liife" is one of the most repetitive songs Journey has ever made. It's great to fall asleep to. That song goes nowhere. Uninspired monotone.


It does meander aimlessly, but up to a point it's a one of Generations better tunes


Funny how you didn't touch this statement: Augeri-era music was wholeheartedly rejected by the vast majority of Journey fans.
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Postby ArnelRox » Sun Nov 26, 2006 2:38 am

frostbite wrote:On a final note...I know I've mentioned it before, but if the boot of "Take Me Back To Ohio" intro to Faithfully Perry sang on the ROR tour could be uploaded again I think that would lay matters to rest about whether Perry could still cut it in 1986.


http://download.yousendit.com/F1ECD61D423670EF

Ur wish is my command master :lol:
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Postby The_Noble_Cause » Sun Nov 26, 2006 2:41 am

saint John wrote:Funny how you didn't touch this statement: Augeri-era music was wholeheartedly rejected by the vast majority of Journey fans.


I don't have to address it.
As I already explained, recent Journey music isn't promoted.
If it's not on radio, how can casual fans be expected to sing along to it in concert?
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Postby Moon Beam » Sun Nov 26, 2006 2:48 am

The_Noble_Cause wrote:
You're detached from reality. I don't care how catchy a song is. I don't care if it's godamn "row row row your boat"


You got the biggest shakes so far today
with this one, Thanks TNC :lol:
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Postby Dano » Sun Nov 26, 2006 3:35 am

donnaplease wrote:
Dano wrote:
Agreed totally, Mandi. It just bewilders me that eight years are being swept under the rug like nothing ever happened. I understand that emotions run high on the tape thing, but my God, to listen to most on these boards, you would think that these people have been protesting against the band for the better part of a decade! Let's face it, people: I'm willing to bet most of you would be giving JSS as much of a hard time as Augeri got if he had immediately succeeded Perry. Regardless of how it ended (and remember, that we still haven't heard all sides of the story) Augeri stepped into one of the most unenviable positions in rock and roll, succeeding a legendary vocalist with amazing talent and a fervent fanbase. Yes, his tenure may have ended badly, but he did a damn fine job for many years. Perhaps many of you might like to go back and re-read your posts from the Augeri-era to remind your selves how much you enjoyed the shows and the CD's. It seems that many will bash anything Augeri-related, when at the time you were singing his praises (no pun intended).


As I've said before, I wasn't really around during the Augeri-era, but I'm a huge fan of the SP-era Journey, and now the lineup with Soto. But I think you're right, if it had been Soto immediately following SP, there would be many people protesting him for one reason or another. He doesn't have the 'look' for Journey, or whatever... I do believe that the time/distance since SP left and the fact that SP has said over and over again that he doesn't plan to re-join the group are what helps us 'loons' move on to a new singer. It's kinda like you've got someone who was controversial to start with (not his fault, understand) who has been unable to fulfill his duties vocally and has resorted to "help" in whatever capacity it was, and it is seen as something that tarnishes this great band. It doesn't matter which side of the coin you fall on regarding who knew what and how many of them are accountable, the fact is that he is the one who couldn't keep up with his end of the bargain. I've said before, I saw Augeri several years ago, and he was good, but he didn't inspire me to want to be a huge fan, unlike Steve Perry and now JSS are doing. I'm not trying to 'bash' anyone, just trying to share my opinion on things...Oh, and I guess one could argue that he really didn't give 8 years, if in up to 2 of them he really wasn't singing... :?


Nice post, and no offense taken. I can see your point and respect your opinion. Nice to see some good discussion going on without a ton of bashing taking place. It certainly makes it easier to listen to another's point of view when they're not insulting you over yours. :D
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Postby Matthew » Sun Nov 26, 2006 5:12 am

JourneyRox wrote:
frostbite wrote:On a final note...I know I've mentioned it before, but if the boot of "Take Me Back To Ohio" intro to Faithfully Perry sang on the ROR tour could be uploaded again I think that would lay matters to rest about whether Perry could still cut it in 1986.


http://download.yousendit.com/F1ECD61D423670EF

Ur wish is my command master :lol:



I've never heard "Take Me Back To Ohio" before and now it's on repeat. This live performance confirms what was already so shiningly obvious on the ROR album.....that the utter brilliance of Perry was at its peak in '86....
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Postby Enigma869 » Sun Nov 26, 2006 5:21 am

YoungJRNYfan wrote: I tried explaining to her who Steve Perry is but she won't bother to listen to me as she says, "I like the guy in the red leather pants, love his voice, lower and easier on the ears."




I think I must have seen your mom posting on BT on many past occasions :twisted:


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Postby PROPERRY » Sun Nov 26, 2006 5:36 am

Matthew wrote:
JourneyRox wrote:

Here's another 86 version just for ur fun. I like to think Monker laughs once in a while:

http://download.yousendit.com/EE646839635407BD




JRox - so frustrating! I can't seem to download these ROR boots - problem with the file. Do you have MP3s of Perry live on the ROR tour? If it's a hassle don't worry....








I've never heard this version of Perry singing "Lovin, Touchin, Squeezin" ....... OH MY, MY, MY, MY!!!! Perry justs blows me away with his AMAZING talent. Just makes me think, HOW in the world could the band "let go" of Perry with that kind of incredible talent????????

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Postby ArnelRox » Sun Nov 26, 2006 5:47 am

Enigma869 wrote:
YoungJRNYfan wrote: I tried explaining to her who Steve Perry is but she won't bother to listen to me as she says, "I like the guy in the red leather pants, love his voice, lower and easier on the ears."




I think I must have seen your mom posting on BT on many past occasions :twisted:


John from Boston


Now u owe me a new keyboard. That was funny :D
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Postby ArnelRox » Sun Nov 26, 2006 5:50 am

PROPERRY wrote:I've never heard this version of Perry singing "Lovin, Touchin, Squeezin" ....... OH MY, MY, MY, MY!!!! Perry justs blows me away with his AMAZING talent. Just makes me think, HOW in the world could the band "let go" of Perry with that kind of incredible talent????????

Lori


Lori, u & I must be stone deaf b/c I felt exactly the way u did about this song. But Monker tells me Perry couldn't sing & had lost it by 86. Do u think we're brainwashed & hearing impaired Lori? Should we be seeing shrinks & ENT specialists? :twisted: Where's Granny? I know she'll react the same way too. Maybe we can get an MR package discount if we all go together? :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Postby PROPERRY » Sun Nov 26, 2006 6:06 am

JourneyRox wrote:
PROPERRY wrote:I've never heard this version of Perry singing "Lovin, Touchin, Squeezin" ....... OH MY, MY, MY, MY!!!! Perry justs blows me away with his AMAZING talent. Just makes me think, HOW in the world could the band "let go" of Perry with that kind of incredible talent????????

Lori


Lori, u & I must be stone deaf b/c I felt exactly the way u did about this song. But Monker tells me Perry couldn't sing & had lost it by 86. Do u think we're brainwashed & hearing impaired Lori? Should we be seeing shrinks & ENT specialists? :twisted: Where's Granny? I know she'll react the same way too. Maybe we can get an MR package discount if we all go together? :lol: :lol: :lol:



I don't get Monker at all, JourneyRox. He has always expressed a GREAT dislike for Perry, and I think that "dislike for Perry" CLOUDS his hearing and judgement to the point he CAN'T EVEN BE TRUTHFUL about Perry's AMAZING singing abilities.

Hey JourneyRox, IF we are the ones that are brain washed & need shrinks, OR are needing a ENT specialist, then I'll believe I'll KEEP my health problems, because I DON'T NEED NO CURE FOR Steve Perry!!!!! :D :D :D :D

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Postby ArnelRox » Sun Nov 26, 2006 6:12 am

PROPERRY wrote: I DON'T NEED NO CURE FOR Steve Perry!!!!! :D :D :D :D


I'm w/ya sistah! These are some enjoyable symptoms of an incurable disease :D
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Postby Rockindeano » Sun Nov 26, 2006 6:53 am

JourneyRox wrote:Lori, u & I must be stone deaf b/c I felt exactly the way u did about this song. But Monker tells me Perry couldn't sing & had lost it by 86. Do u think we're brainwashed & hearing impaired Lori? Should we be seeing shrinks & ENT specialists? :twisted: Where's Granny? I know she'll react the same way too. Maybe we can get an MR package discount if we all go together? :lol: :lol: :lol:


He DID lose it in 86. Monker is right. he lost it according to his standards. You all forget, a Cplus Perry is as good as an Aplus Augeri. To his credit, Perry had the balls to step away because he felt he wasn't on his game. I respect that big time.

Lori, shut the fuck up. The Band didn't cut him off...well, they did, after they waited 10 fucking years for him to return. Get a grip on reality. And YOU have kids? Fuck, what a disaster that is. You make it seem like the band pushed Steve Perry to the fucking curb. Get a fucking clue, bitch.
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Postby Monker » Sun Nov 26, 2006 7:11 am

JourneyRox wrote:
Clasicrockldy wrote:Perry was 38 at that time, Monker...... not too far off from Augeri ! And Augeri wasn't middle aged when he joined, and for me, he didn't have it then either ! :D


Ur exactly right CRL.

Augeri was born in 1959. He joined Journey in 1998 at 39. For the Vegas DVD (filmed in 2000), Augeri was 41.

Perry was born in 1949. In 1986/87 for the ROR tour, Perry was 37/38. In 1994/5 for the FTLOSM tour, Perry was 44/45.

Monker, what's ur point? Why are the comparisons unfair?


My point is that you were comparing Steve Perry from 1978-1983 (31-35), at the peak of his career, to Augeri when he was 39-41.
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Postby pdsidd » Sun Nov 26, 2006 7:11 am

The_Noble_Cause wrote:
Dano wrote:Vocals are muddled? Not on any of the sound systems I've listened to those albums on. Augeri is loud and clear in the mixes on all of those. I think you're reaching there....


Many people have complained about this for years.
The lead vox on "Arrival" has always sounded muffled to me.
Strangely, WGW always sounded more upfront than the rest of the cd (perhaps because it was recorded at a later date?)
"Generations" varies dependent on what system I listen to it on.


I think Arrival's mix is very good for lead vocals, Generations is a wierd mix full stop, drum sound on Arrival is a hell of a lot better than on Generations for example. I always felt Augeri's performance on Arrival was very strong and had to be considering he was following Mr Perry.
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Postby Monker » Sun Nov 26, 2006 7:15 am

bionic wrote:Steve was payed to do a job by us,after some time he was unable to do that job,and in fact was not doing that job for the last few years!! What was we paying him for????
So he was let go except he has not gone yet? He wants a proper send off $$$$$$. Then and only then will he say goodbye and maybe just maybe thanks all the well wishers he has ignored.
I liked his voice and stage presance but i disliked the fact he chose to decieve us,at no popint did the band announce Steve was on tape...why? Because they knew it was wrong as did Augeri more than anyone.
Goodbye Steve hello Jeff a singer not mime artist!! :?


Here is something you people are not thinking about:

What if he refuses to leave and sign a 'gag order'. I'm sure he saw how it tied Journey's hands...why would he want to put himself under the same circumstance?

And, yeah, I know that's not what those 'in the know' want you to believe...why would Journey, or anybody 'in the know' want you to believe anything that puts Augeri in anything other then a less the favorable light?
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Postby ArnelRox » Sun Nov 26, 2006 7:15 am

Monker wrote: My point is that you were comparing Steve Perry from 1978-1983 (31-35), at the peak of his career, to Augeri when he was 39-41.


Wrong. U were the one who brought it up & comparied Perry at age 37-45 (ROR & FTLOSM) to Augeri at age 39-41 saying Augeri was better. He wasn't. Now shut up.
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Postby Rockindeano » Sun Nov 26, 2006 7:15 am

pdsidd wrote:I think Arrival's mix is very good for lead vocals, Generations is a wierd mix full stop, drum sound on Arrival is a hell of a lot better than on Generations for example. I always felt Augeri's performance on Arrival was very strong and had to be considering he was following Mr Perry.


You thought wrong. Augeri's vocals in Arrival are muddled. Listen to perry's on ANY album and he is so up front you can practically touch him.
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Postby ArnelRox » Sun Nov 26, 2006 7:17 am

Rockin'Deano wrote:He DID lose it in 86. Monker is right. he lost it according to his standards.


Dean, I love u man, but tell me please, where in that Long Beach boot, the last one of the ROR tour I've got, does Perry lose it? Point it out to me. Because I can't hear it.
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Postby Monker » Sun Nov 26, 2006 7:27 am

JourneyRox wrote:But Monker tells me Perry couldn't sing & had lost it by 86.


That is NOT what I said. I said his voice is lowered and there is a lot more rasp. He lost 'it', meaning whatever edge he had over every other singer in the world. He became very average during the ROR tour...and the sped up, tuned down, raspy versions of the songs sucked.
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Postby Rockindeano » Sun Nov 26, 2006 7:29 am

JourneyRox wrote:
Rockin'Deano wrote:He DID lose it in 86. Monker is right. he lost it according to his standards.


Dean, I love u man, but tell me please, where in that Long Beach boot, the last one of the ROR tour I've got, does Perry lose it? Point it out to me. Because I can't hear it.


Oh he does...there are places where he rushes and cracks a bit here and there...don't get me wrong, he still sounds good, but you can definitely tell he was tiring at this point in the Tour. I was there live that night and it was the best Journey show I have ever seen.
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Postby ArnelRox » Sun Nov 26, 2006 7:29 am

Monker wrote:
JourneyRox wrote:But Monker tells me Perry couldn't sing & had lost it by 86.


That is NOT what I said. I said his voice is lowered and there is a lot more rasp. He lost 'it', meaning whatever edge he had over every other singer in the world. He became very average during the ROR tour...and the sped up, tuned down, raspy versions of the songs sucked.


Let me quote u Monker: "IMO, he could no longer do those songs justice by the ROR tour...and I prefer Augeri a LOT more then Perry's ROR/FTLOSM years. WitS was AMAZING back in 1978...but Perry's voice had changed so much that it seemed like a completely different song.

I can't stand LTS from ANY of the ROR concerts. The entire rendition of that songs sucks. Perry's rusty vocals, the song is obviously tuned down...and sped WAY up. I would take ANY Journey version of LTS over the ROR tour. The same goes for Lights and WitS...They are just VERY sub-par compared to previous Perry tours, or even Augeri, IMO."
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