4 weeks of lurking between MR and BT

[MartyMoffatt]

Actually I was there, at least for some of it. Yes it was distasteful and over the top, but no more so than other stuff that goes on here. Or is it just the subject matter that determines whether or not it is acceptable?

I resent this. I don't like any "discussion" on here that is distasteful & over the top & I've often said that here. In one day, u misquoted me & now accuse me of enjoying over the top, distasteful stuff & tell me to give a break to a guy who causes that kind of stuff. Am I on ur shit list or something? I always heard u were a nice guy Marty. It doesn't seem like it here.

Oh I get it. I like Deano, u don't. Is that it?

First of all, I didn't misquote you. I was referring to a poster (Matthew) who had responded to your original post, and I thought I'd subsequently cleared that up on that original thread. I apologize if I wasn't clear enough.

Secondly, I am not accusing you of anything. My comment was a general one - an observation of the fact that some things seem to be deemed acceptable here and some things not, and it has nothing to do with the tone of any post, more to do with subject matter or rather the opinion being expressed.

I was not aware of whether you like Deano or not, and it doesn't matter to me either way. I don't dislike Deano but I do dislike the tone of many of his posts and if I feel they merit comment then I'll do so. It's not meant to be adversarial.

I'm not looking to make friends or enemies here, just calling things as I see them.

Marty

[Moon Beam]

HAHA, who cares. If I wanna post I wanna post. Who gives a rats ass what I said it was all in fun. Don't worry about me or anything, only reason why I'm back is because a new beginning is starting for Journey and I'm here to talk about it. Maybe the forum is slow or something, or do you really need to argue something that bad? LOL Easy man, EEEASY

And maybe, just maybe you shouldn't have been such
a trash filled troll your last time around here.
You caused alot of grief and work for Andrew
and insulted many, that's not how guests
should behave.

[MartyMoffatt]

Give the guy a break. Are you saying there is ANYONE on this board who hasn't contradicted himself/herself at least once? I thought it was mandatory here. Deano does it... er, about every 10 minutes

Marty

Hey Euro, shut the fuck up already. You love to bash me don't you? All you ever come in here to say is "be easy and respectful to BT and its' members, vulgarity is rampant, and Steve Augeri is getting a bad rap."

Dude, I come in here and lay down some facts and some pretty big ones too, have you NOT noticed. I was called every fucking name in the book, and a lot were people that were my MR pals, swore off me to call me out, and now are my MR friends again. I think I unveiled Augeri singing, err, miming to a tape. Yeah, that Tapegate was a huge story.

I only try to comment on fact, knowledge and the occasional bashing of a stupid fucked fan. Marty, Lula is upset at me for typing this to you. She says you are a nice guy. Ok, so you are. However, perhaps you should keep your beak out of stuff you have absolutely NO idea of what you speak. Perhaps you might want to listen to people who DO know what they speak of. 13 and Nig have learned that lesson, and so have a few others.

Your turn Marty.

I'm not even sure I've ever mentioned Augeri in any post I've made here. Maybe I have - I can't be bothered to go back and look.

I have never 'bashed' you. I have never called you (or anybody else) names of any kind, here or anywhere else. What I have done is disagreed with you sometimes and called you up on your use of language, insults and agression quite often. I feel these are done for effect and in my opinion actually devalue your points. You do have useful points to make, I won't argue with that. But you often hide them among streams of obscenities, verbal abuse and contradictions.

This board needs people to question you - your motives, your sources, your intel, your opinions. What I see here is the vast majority of posters lapping up every word you utter, either because they are intimidated or full of adoration. You may not like them, but if it wasn't for the likes of Fred, Fyre, Monker and others, including myself, this board would become so one sided that Andrew's dream of open debate here would disappear completely. And I believe there are many other lurkers who would like to question you but are too frightened to do so.

Yes, I defend BT when I feel it is being bashed unfairly. For all its faults it is NOT as bad as you continue to make out. It seems I am often coming back at you because it is you who are playing accuser judge and jury most of the time. I have no personal grievance against you. Ray (Bionic) used to accuse me of victimising him on BT because I was always countering his arguments there. I do so based on the argument not the personality.

And before Matthew comes back and calls me sanctimonious again, it's not intended that way. I just try to be unambiguous and try to say in one post what some people need to string out over a dozen or more.

Marty

[Matthew]

You may not like them, but if it wasn't for the likes of Fred, Fyre, Monker and others, including myself, this board would become so one sided that Andrew's dream of open debate here would disappear completely.

I agree with this....

And before Matthew comes back and calls me sanctimonious again, it's not intended that way.

Nor taken that way, Marty.

[Rockindeano]

This board needs people to question you - your motives, your sources, your intel, your opinions. What I see here is the vast majority of posters lapping up every word you utter, either because they are intimidated or full of adoration. You may not like them, but if it wasn't for the likes of Fred, Fyre, Monker and others, including myself, this board would become so one sided that Andrew's dream of open debate here would disappear completely.

I agree with this. The last thing I want is for an all one sided smooch fest. I believe I actually earned a lot of friends here because I have come through with stuff and the I beleve they believe me when I say this or that is or isn't going to happen. Marty, I will say you question me and do so fairly. Monker and Fyre are just pissed because they are not on my level. Does that sound arrogant? yeah, I suppose it does, but I am more relevant than those pricks and I know they are pissed because I get the goods and they don't get a sniff. Oh well, if you don't like it boys, get better or shut up.

And I believe there are many other lurkers who would like to question you but are too frightened to do so.

Yeah dude. Scared of big bad Rockindeano..a Message Board entity. Oooh, how scary.

Yes, I defend BT when I feel it is being bashed unfairly. For all its faults it is NOT as bad as you continue to make out. It seems I am often coming back at you because it is you who are playing accuser judge and jury most of the time. I have no personal grievance against you. Ray (Bionic) used to accuse me of victimising him on BT because I was always countering his arguments there. I do so based on the argument not the personality.

You defend BT ers against me when I was and still are called every name in thre book about my role in Tapegate and having Augeri removed. So be it. I would do it again in a NY minute. Marty, FYI, BT ers are every bad as MR'ers and just as venomous. Trust me, I have death threats via email and US mail. I have enciountered PM's and emails telling me "not to drop the soap because I was going to pay big time for this." Well, I got news for you and the rest of them: They fucked up by not accepting my apology. I was 100% correct with TG and will be 100% correct in the future.

[Granny]

Marty, noone here is intimidated by Dean, especially me.
Why would a lurker be afraid of posting here? Its the internet
No one can be physically hurt by anyone here.
Again I ask, why do u come here? Just for Dean's info? b/c u get none on BT?
Do u come here so u can have a negative discussion about any said topic? b/c u can't say one negative thing about
the band? b/c occasionally we say negative things about mgt. for not giving us an official announcement and u
cannot say that on BT.
We love and adore Dean for all the things he HAS done for us, also for his humor, intelligent comments and yes his language...we think its funny altho' some do not. so they just don't read it.. or ignore it...
Stay at BT and post your comments there, not here...we are not interested in what u have to say...
SEE NO BAD LANGUAGE!

[Monker]

Monker and Fyre are just pissed because they are not on my level.
Does that sound arrogant? yeah, I suppose it does, but I am more relevant than those pricks and I know they are pissed because I get the goods and they don't get a sniff. Oh well, if you don't like it boys, get better or shut up.

I don't WANT to be on 'your level'. YOU are just pissed because I don't believe everything you say just because you say it. You offer NOTHING other then "your word"...Excuse me of I don't think that amounts to much.

They fucked up by not accepting my apology.

No, YOU fucked up by offering it in the first place...because, it's obvious by the way you act today that you didn't mean a word of it.

[Monker]

You caused alot of grief and work for Andrew
and insulted many, that's not how guests
should behave.

The people who have 'insulted' more often then conversed are still here. The people who have caused more grief for Andrew then following through on what he asks are still here. So, what exactly is your point about how 'guests' should behave?

[MartyMoffatt]

[quote="Rockin'Deano] You defend BT ers against me when I was and still are called every name in thre book about my role in Tapegate and having Augeri removed. So be it. I would do it again in a NY minute. Marty, FYI, BT ers are every bad as MR'ers and just as venomous. Trust me, I have death threats via email and US mail. I have enciountered PM's and emails telling me "not to drop the soap because I was going to pay big time for this." Well, I got news for you and the rest of them: They fucked up by not accepting my apology. I was 100% correct with TG and will be 100% correct in the future.[/quote]

If that's true then that is to be abhorred too. I don't condone any such action. However, if so it is likely it is just a few individuals, and I'm defending the majority there because you lump them ALL into the same category. There are potentially venomous posters all over the internet and on every forum - I'm not naive. But BT is the forum under the cosh here time and time again.

Similarly, I would defend MR over there if it was bashed, because not everybody here is as bad as some on BT would suggest.

Anyway, I didn't think it was a case of not accepting your apology. It was a case of wanting more evidence that it was in good faith, other than just your word. verbal apologies are two a penny. They have to be backed up with action.

Marty

[Rockindeano]

Anyway, I didn't think it was a case of not accepting your apology. It was a case of wanting more evidence that it was in good faith, other than just your word. verbal apologies are two a penny. They have to be backed up with action.

Marty

Yes, and WITHOUT conditions being placed on the apologizer.

[MartyMoffatt]

Marty, noone here is intimidated by Dean, especially me.
Why would a lurker be afraid of posting here? Its the internet
No one can be physically hurt by anyone here.
Again I ask, why do u come here? Just for Dean's info? b/c u get none on BT?
Do u come here so u can have a negative discussion about any said topic? b/c u can't say one negative thing about
the band? b/c occasionally we say negative things about mgt. for not giving us an official announcement and u
cannot say that on BT.
We love and adore Dean for all the things he HAS done for us, also for his humor, intelligent comments and yes his language...we think its funny altho' some do not. so they just don't read it.. or ignore it...
Stay at BT and post your comments there, not here...we are not interested in what u have to say...
SEE NO BAD LANGUAGE!

You're not intimidated by him because you always agree with him and thus have not had to suffer one of Dean's verbal tirades. I'm not intimidated either but for some people words do hurt. And as Dean has indicated, bad feeling can escalate and result in activities more threatening than just a messageboard, and I guess some people are wary of that.

I come here for all sorts of reasons, and I spend about the same amount of time over there. You may not be interested in what I have to say. Fair enough. However, this is a board that prides itself on freedom of speech. Are you telling me that the ONLY freedom of speech you will allow is stuff you agree with? That doesn't sound very free to me. I thought that was your main argument against BT.

Marty

[MartyMoffatt]

Anyway, I didn't think it was a case of not accepting your apology. It was a case of wanting more evidence that it was in good faith, other than just your word. verbal apologies are two a penny. They have to be backed up with action.

Marty

Yes, and WITHOUT conditions being placed on the apologizer.

Yes I agree that was probably premature, but I would have expected a period of peace at least.

Marty

[ArnelRox]

Yes I agree that was probably premature, but I would have expected a period of peace at least.

Marty

& u would have had one I'm sure if it weren't for all the conditions. Dean was very sincere.

[Rockindeano]

I still am sincere. I have no plans to go off on BT until they do or say something stupid. It won't take long. Next week it could get really ugly or really pitiful for that site.

[YoungJRNYfan]

I'm here to defend myself. Yes, I got out of hand. We all know that. When I first joined, I had no intentions of being a troll or anything. I remember specifically I made a post comparing JSS and S.A just for discussion and My thread got hijacked by a couple saying I should get the fuck out for no apparent reasoning. I was like you now what, I'm going against them and piss them off just like they pissed me off for making a innocent post. One thing led to another and it became a fuck fest with just messing around on my part, which I said 1 million times and then you all just kept comming with insults and I just countered. I would say it was fun and even I pissed Soto off, I believe he told me to go fuck myself or something lol Good stuff. Point I'm making I'm not here to troll it was just a joke that got out of control

[Moon Beam]

You caused alot of grief and work for Andrew
and insulted many, that's not how guests
should behave.

The people who have 'insulted' more often then conversed are still here. The people who have caused more grief for Andrew then following through on what he asks are still here. So, what exactly is your point about how 'guests' should behave?

My point oh Cantankerous one
is that YoungJRNYfan came in here
one weekend and slung mud pies
left and right.
Us folks that post regularly
add more to this forum than flames
you know it, we all know it.
You starting up with me?
Your the biggest complainer around here.
I'm all for bitchin, whining and pitchin
a fit, I've had a few but come on Monker
The poster in question added nothing but
flames and pot slicking then.
I hope things have changed and I welcome that.

[fred_journeyman]

...However, this is a board that prides itself on freedom of speech. Are you telling me that the ONLY freedom of speech you will allow is stuff you agree with? That doesn't sound very free to me. I thought that was your main argument against BT.

That seems to be pretty much the case, Marty. If you go to BT, there's an obvious party line in place. If you tend to step beyond it, you're in danger of being classified as a troll and banned altogether. If you say what's on your mind HERE, as long as it agrees with the vocal minority, it's fine. If it doesn't, you'd better not say it more than once (though those within the vocal minority can repeat themselves ad infinitum and that's fine). If you tend to disagree with something or someone who is among the favored here, you're lambasted and there is no room for you here. The moderator may even come out and accuse you of being on a "crusade," (but will apologize in a PM and ask to "start fresh").

Having stopped in today, I see that over the past few days, it's the same ol' comments, arguments and posts. Nothing new.

So Marty, where does one go to discuss Journey intelligently and have the freedom to say what you want to say if you are in the place where your line of thought does not tend to agree with others? Does it exist? If so, I haven't found it because it's not the case here or at BT.

[YoungJRNYfan]

Yeah this board isn't full of angels I'll tell you that. Even Andrew doesn't have trust and saw it commin, he even said to ignore anyone who jumps on anyones shit. I know you guys have been here for who knows how long, but that doesn't make the fact that I am the bad guy in everything. I know eveyones a tough guy over a keyboard, but this is a forum and it's takin way to seriously with things like this. It might make people feel better with their spirits of words but, it doesn't help anything really. Let it go lol

[Matthew]

So Marty, where does one go to discuss Journey intelligently and have the freedom to say what you want to say if you are in the place where your line of thought does not tend to agree with others? Does it exist? If so, I haven't found it because it's not the case here or at BT.

Well, Fred - I've had hundreds of interesting conversations and arguments here on MR and a lot of laughs too. I've been here since July and not ONCE have I received a warning from a moderator or been accused of being a troll.

I lasted two days at BT and got banned - and my style of posting was exactly the same there as it is here.

So - even though I might not agree with the majority view here sometimes - I still have the freedom to challenge the consensus whenever I feel out of step with it. And so do you.

[Moon Beam]

Yeah this board isn't full of angels I'll tell you that. Even Andrew doesn't have trust and saw it commin, he even said to ignore anyone who jumps on anyones shit. I know you guys have been here for who knows how long, but that doesn't make the fact that I am the bad guy in everything. I know eveyones a tough guy over a keyboard, but this is a forum and it's takin way to seriously with things like this. It might make people feel better with their spirits of words but, it doesn't help anything really. Let it go lol

I have no problem disagreeing with you and
welcome anything non flame like from you
but forgive me please if I'm a bit twice shy.

The thoughts I post are usually true in sentiment
and I won't flame unless it's called for.
If I want to express an emotion I use the smilies.

[fred_journeyman]

Well, Fred - I've had hundreds of interesting conversations and arguments here on MR and a lot of laughs too. I've been here since July and not ONCE have I received a warning from a moderator or been accused of being a troll.

I lasted two days at BT and got banned - and my style of posting was exactly the same there as it is here.

So - even though I might not agree with the majority view here sometimes - I still have the freedom to challenge the consensus whenever I feel out of step with it. And so do you.

Sure, I've challenged the vocal minority here before on many occasions. My original question to Marty goes unanswered...

[ArnelRox]

I still am sincere. I have no plans to go off on BT until they do or say something stupid. It won't take long. Next week it could get really ugly or really pitiful for that site.

If ur inferring the "announcement" may come then, there are people who will probably need some psych help to deal w/the trauma.

[Rockindeano]

I fear now the announcement is going to get really ugly. Just delays, and more tactics and so on. I am not liking the chances of a quick settlement now.

[ArnelRox]

though those within the vocal minority can repeat themselves ad infinitum and that's fine

Jesus u should know. U repeat urself over & over & over & over again all the time.

[fred_journeyman]

though those within the vocal minority can repeat themselves ad infinitum and that's fine

Jesus u should know. U repeat urself over & over & over & over again all the time.

Ah, it's easy to make that claim, but it's tougher to back it up. You're insinuating that all I do is come here and make repetitious statements for no reason at all, or just because I want to repeat myself. In truth, I'm normally responding to someone else's post. I rarely start threads. In fact, since I came here this morning, I've read posts by you and others that are so reminiscent of past arguments that it's easy to see how much repeating goes on here by EVERYONE, not just me. I realize you don't want to admit that though, because it would weaken your argument a lot.

Sorry if my posting here bothers you, but it's really your problem isn't it?

[fred_journeyman]

I fear now the announcement is going to get really ugly. Just delays, and more tactics and so on. I am not liking the chances of a quick settlement now.

Whether the announcement comes sooner or later, it doesn't seem like it has any affect on whether Journey is moving forward or not. As far as I can tell, they're moving on.

[Matthew]

Well, Fred - I've had hundreds of interesting conversations and arguments here on MR and a lot of laughs too. I've been here since July and not ONCE have I received a warning from a moderator or been accused of being a troll.

I lasted two days at BT and got banned - and my style of posting was exactly the same there as it is here.

So - even though I might not agree with the majority view here sometimes - I still have the freedom to challenge the consensus whenever I feel out of step with it. And so do you.

Sure, I've challenged the vocal minority here before on many occasions. My original question to Marty goes unanswered...

Well, I thought I had offered a possible answer - that on MR you can have an intelligent conversation and say whatever you like. In fact, I didn't even get why you needed to ask the question in the first place.

Fred - you seem completely uninhibited about the way you express yourself here and although you might not feel supported or loved enough here no-one has banned you or deleted your posts.

[Andrew]

The moderator may even come out and accuse you of being on a "crusade," (but will apologize in a PM and ask to "start fresh").

Nice way to get a dig in.

[Chakra]

I fear now the announcement is going to get really ugly. Just delays, and more tactics and so on. I am not liking the chances of a quick settlement now.

Soooo, how was Rafters?