You're Journey's New Management Team....

[Melissa]

Yep, Journey's site is a joke (sorry guys!!) compared to Jeff's.

[ohsherrie]

When Augeri leaves, and JSS replaces him....the PROBLEM is not corrected.

That remains to be seen.
Jeff is pretty dynamic as a solo artist.
His website puts Journey's to shame.
I don't think he will be content making the yearly rounds to the corn-dog and cotton candy circuit.

He will attempt to rattle the cages and shake shit up.

Yep, and he has the voice and charisma to do it. That's why I feel better about Journey's future than I have in quite some time. I just wish they could get the other guy Officially out of there so they could get on with it.

[jrnyman28]

He will attempt to rattle the cages and shake shit up.

Maybe he will...but that does not mean he will be successful. (Although GAWD I hope with Neal as an allie some things WILL change)

[Melissa]

He will attempt to rattle the cages and shake shit up.

Maybe he will...but that does not mean he will be successful. (Although GAWD I hope with Neal as an allie some things WILL change)

He doesn't have to attempt, he already has, whether he tried to or not.

[yogi]

If I were them, I would hook up with Memorix!

[ArnelRox]

What I find particularly funny about this thread is the way so many people will go back to the conspiracy theory that someone fed tapes to Deano. What everyone seems to ignore is that Deano was one of Augeri's biggest fans for a long time. On other areas of this very site, the questions about Augeri lipping were being discussed long before Deano's blog surfaced. It was being discussed in the music biz amongst those "in the know" for the last 2 yrs. It wasn't public information at that time. But I'd be willing to bet it was being passed around in PMs here kept on the "QT". I've never quite understood why Svante had the guts to post on a newsgroup but perhaps he thought it would not get out seeing as he posted on a sound engineer's newsgroup. He is certainly a credible guy w/an obvious good reputation. The other people "in the know" that were "in the biz" were not willing to make this public as they knew it would ruin their reputation in the industry. But they did hint at it (& even admit what they knew) privately to people. Did it leak from Journey? Or did it just become so huge that it leaked out from so many dropping hints. I think it was the latter. I think Deano just happened to be the right kind of fan w/enough guts to take whatever was thrown at him for establishing his blog. If he hadn't had a very large pair of balls, this info may never have made it mainstream on the internet. Think about that.

Monker, deny it all u want, but there's plenty of proof. TNC was right on about the moon insofar as this is concerned. But u obviously live in ur own little version of reality. I hope it's not as miserable as it appears from ur posts.

[ohsherrie]

What I find particularly funny about this thread is the way so many people will go back to the conspiracy theory that someone fed tapes to Deano. What everyone seems to ignore is that Deano was one of Augeri's biggest fans for a long time. On other areas of this very site, the questions about Augeri lipping were being discussed long before Deano's blog surfaced. It was being discussed in the music biz amongst those "in the know" for the last 2 yrs. It wasn't public information at that time. But I'd be willing to bet it was being passed around in PMs here kept on the "QT". I've never quite understood why Svante had the guts to post on a newsgroup but perhaps he thought it would not get out seeing as he posted on a sound engineer's newsgroup. He is certainly a credible guy w/an obvious good reputation. The other people "in the know" that were "in the biz" were not willing to make this public as they knew it would ruin their reputation in the industry. But they did hint at it (& even admit what they knew) privately to people. Did it leak from Journey? Or did it just become so huge that it leaked out from so many dropping hints. I think it was the latter. I think Deano just happened to be the right kind of fan w/enough guts to take whatever was thrown at him for establishing his blog. If he hadn't had a very large pair of balls, this info may never have made it mainstream on the internet. Think about that.

Great post Sis. Lots of food for thought.

[ArnelRox]

Great post Sis. Lots of food for thought.

I really love the mutual admiration thing u & I have going on. If I ever decide to become a lesbian, watch out.

[fred_journeyman]

Yet, TWO whole fans were told something, so dangit, it must be true.

Why not?
Just a few months ago there was less than a handful of fans on this forum who were aware of the lip syncing.
You, as if u need reminding, were not included in that prestigious lot, so I kindly suggest you shut your dicksucker.

Not sure what your last line has to do with anything, probably because it has nothing to do with anything. Look, if you're going to respond to my posts, fine, but don't come along later and then tell me to shut up because you don't particularly like what I have to say.

I personally could care less if you believe elves discovered the lipping thing. It makes no difference to me and certainly you're not going to convince me of anything, especially with your attitude. I could care less if I was a member of the "prestigious" lot and that has absolutely nothing to do with anything.

If given the choice, I'll take Allen's word over yours, Deano's and even Jeremey's (no offense, Jeremy) any day of the week, month or year, simply because of his involvement with the band and his knowhow.

[Marc S]

What I find particularly funny about this thread is the way so many people will go back to the conspiracy theory that someone fed tapes to Deano. What everyone seems to ignore is that Deano was one of Augeri's biggest fans for a long time. On other areas of this very site, the questions about Augeri lipping were being discussed long before Deano's blog surfaced. It was being discussed in the music biz amongst those "in the know" for the last 2 yrs. It wasn't public information at that time. But I'd be willing to bet it was being passed around in PMs here kept on the "QT". I've never quite understood why Svante had the guts to post on a newsgroup but perhaps he thought it would not get out seeing as he posted on a sound engineer's newsgroup. He is certainly a credible guy w/an obvious good reputation. The other people "in the know" that were "in the biz" were not willing to make this public as they knew it would ruin their reputation in the industry. But they did hint at it (& even admit what they knew) privately to people. Did it leak from Journey? Or did it just become so huge that it leaked out from so many dropping hints. I think it was the latter. I think Deano just happened to be the right kind of fan w/enough guts to take whatever was thrown at him for establishing his blog. If he hadn't had a very large pair of balls, this info may never have made it mainstream on the internet. Think about that.

I just cannot see that the grapevine could be kept quiet for that long in such a back stabbing and incestuous industry. It may be that there were murmerings and whispers when they began augmenting Augeri's vocals at the outset in '03 and they have ramped up as the augmentation became more common? If flown in vocals had been used extensively when his voice was failing it would have been in the public domain much quicker. All the people who would have been exposed to it (monitor/FOH mix/crew/etc etc) could not have kept quiet for 2 years. A buzz like that would have been everywhere instantly. It was surely a case of degrees.

[NealIsGod]

Great post Sis. Lots of food for thought.

I really love the mutual admiration thing u & I have going on. If I ever decide to become a lesbian, watch out.

Excellent.

[fred_journeyman]

Love you too Fred and I understand that they couldn't cancel anything already booked, I just don't understand continuing to book. Of course, it's not necessary that I understand, It's really none of my business. I just can't help wondering what the real story is.

Continuing to book is a point to consider. This is where I think management was more of the "push" here and I think you said that yourself, unless I was reading someone else's post. If it was management that was pushing in that direction, then of course, it was because of $$$ and them thinking that everything would remain the way it was, with the tapes, etc.

The guy in Europe who "broke" the news - it's interesting though because that entire scenario wasn't as if Journey was trying to hide anything. You've got the mysterious tent, you've got a guy sitting behind the drums running a machine, etc. and then you've got people hearing Augeri live in a trailer, while the people in the audience are hearing Memorex. Looks as if they wanted to get caught with their pants down. But the funniest part of this is how can ANY of them go "Huh? He was lipping? Wow!"

[fred_journeyman]

Nobody in this thread ever said that.

Didn't say they did.

If you think Azoff Mngt. hasn't been routinely raked over the coals around here u simply haven't been paying attention.

Never said management hasn't been raked over the coals.

Go apologise to whoever it is that said that. It wasn't me. Nobody in this thread (besides you) is even arguing that Augeri is the Kingpin.

Didn't say you said it. You're arguing that Augeri SHOULD have used his free will to REFUSE to lip. I'm saying that being caught up in things, he may not have felt as though he COULD.

If you knew WHO those fans were and WHO told them, then yes, unequivocally on no uncertain terms it is THE TRUTH.

Probably wouldn't matter to me.

Augeri must be an automaton completely devoid of free will.
Where does the buck stop?

No, I think Augeri got caught up in something larger than himself. The buck ultimately stops with him of course, but the others are not guiltless. It's an all or nothing proposition. You seem to want to argue that it is Augeri and the OTHERS went along with it, because apparently THEY have no free will either. I'm saying that they all share the blame, even management, or maybe especially management.

[ohsherrie]

Great post Sis. Lots of food for thought.

I really love the mutual admiration thing u & I have going on. If I ever decide to become a lesbian, watch out.

No worries. I'm strictly hetero.

[Andrew]

The more this one gets thown around, I can't help feeling that Neal or Jon (and whoever else in the set-up) wanted the tapes to be public knowledge, hence leak it to a fan who they know would run with it, as a blog.

No sane person/business/band/artist/organization would want anything like what happened this year brought upon them.

Sure, things might work out ok in the end, but no one would bring the kind of PR we saw served up early in 06, upon themselves.

[fred_journeyman]

I just cannot see that the grapevine could be kept quiet for that long in such a back stabbing and incestuous industry. It may be that there were murmerings and whispers when they began augmenting Augeri's vocals at the outset in '03 and they have ramped up as the augmentation became more common? If flown in vocals had been used extensively when his voice was failing it would have been in the public domain much quicker. All the people who would have been exposed to it (monitor/FOH mix/crew/etc etc) could not have kept quiet for 2 years. A buzz like that would have been everywhere instantly. It was surely a case of degrees.

What's even funnier is that supposedly, Journey is not the first or last group to lip. Since it became news, other groups and artists have been discussed on these "hallowed" pages. What, did Svante NEVER run into an instance of a group lipping or was it such a boldfaced lie that Augeri lipped, but pretended not to, that Svante was just shaken to his core and for his own mental health, couldn't help but create a blog, because his world had been turned upside down?

If Augeri actually lipped for as many years as some on here state, what an incredible cover-up it was...only to eventually be revealed through the happenstance of one European "whistle-blowing" engineer and a fan who decided to create a blog about it. It really doesn't seem plausible to me that it went on for as long as it supposedly did, but either way, I lose no sleep over it.

[Marc S]

The guy in Europe who "broke" the news - it's interesting though because that entire scenario wasn't as if Journey was trying to hide anything. You've got the mysterious tent, you've got a guy sitting behind the drums running a machine, etc. and then you've got people hearing Augeri live in a trailer, while the people in the audience are hearing Memorex. Looks as if they wanted to get caught with their pants down. But the funniest part of this is how can ANY of them go "Huh? He was lipping? Wow!"

There's the rub - I first heard this story a week or so after I'd seen them at the Arrow Rock fest in Holland, where they did sound unbelieveably good, but why would the band and management agree to have the whole gig recorded live through a mobile studio backstage - there was no way the whole facade would NOT be rumbled. Either they DID want to get caught or this is all an elaborate hoax....now we're back to square one.

Ah fuck it, I'm going to bed.

[fred_journeyman]

There's the rub - I first heard this story a week or so after I'd seen them at the Arrow Rock fest in Holland, where they did sound unbelieveably good, but why would the band and management agree to have the whole gig recorded live through a mobile studio backstage - there was no way the whole facade would NOT be rumbled. Either they DID want to get caught or this is all an elaborate hoax....now we're back to square one.

Ah fuck it, I'm going to bed.

Marc, I don't believe for a minute it was a "hoax," which means either the band wanted to get caught, or they didn't think anyone would notice. Hmmm, what to think? What to think?

[Marc S]

No sane person/business/band/artist/organization would want anything like what happened this year brought upon them.

Sure, things might work out ok in the end, but no one would bring the kind of PR we saw served up early in 06, upon themselves.

Unless the rest of the band were absolutely caught by the bollocks both contractually, legally and morally as they had instigated the tapes with Augeri and management in the first place and would go down like a burning Spitfire. With no way out, what could they do but leak the stuff themselves, weather the storm, say nothing and have JSS up their sleeve when it went tits up who has given the fans something to get their teeth into.

Politics and backstabbing is not just confined to Westminster (Houses of Parliament!) especially when lots of dollars are at stake...

[Marc S]

What to think? What to think?

yes Fred, amazing a bunch of old fart musos can polarize views and create such debate!

[Rockindeano]

Wow.

Interesting to read people's opinions... Carry on.

[Carlitto H@kk]

Wow.

Interesting to read people's opinions... Carry on.

Come on, Dean, chime in on this stuff...
You KNOW you're just chomping at the bit right now

I've been reading along, staying out of all this, but there are
some really good posts in here...

Your take would be pretty good, I think...

[Rockindeano]

Yeah, sure I do, because I know how the story was written, but this is fun watching certain people make educated guesses, some people make good points, some make solid points, and some are just way the hell out there.

I just think for the good of the band, and us, that perhaps we should just let this go away and concentrate on the future. I doubt I will weigh in on thisa issue again. I am onboard with the Band and am pumped for the future.

[Carlitto H@kk]

Yeah, sure I do, because I know how the story was written, but this is fun watching certain people make educated guesses, some people make good points, some make solid points, and some are just way the hell out there.

I just think for the good of the band, and us, that perhaps we should just let this go away and concentrate on the future. I doubt I will weigh in on thisa issue again. I am onboard with the Band and am pumped for the future.

Man, you're getting soft

[ohsherrie]

Yeah, sure I do, because I know how the story was written, but this is fun watching certain people make educated guesses, some people make good points, some make solid points, and some are just way the hell out there.

I just think for the good of the band, and us, that perhaps we should just let this go away and concentrate on the future. I doubt I will weigh in on thisa issue again. I am onboard with the Band and am pumped for the future.

Great post. It shows the man you really are.

[Monker]

All you have are opinions of bootlegs and Svante. That is IT. That isn't proof of anything.

Excellent point.
I have argued fervently in a similar manner over the great Swiss cheese debate.
Can any of us say we any degree of certainty that the moon isn't really made out of cheese?
I know I saw the landing on TV, but I wasn't there myself, nor did I try to take a bite out of it's lunar surface.
All we really have are a bunch of opinions from some pencil-necked know-it-alls at NASA.
Until I am personally on the moon, I must say this remains an open case for me.

The fact of the matter is that the Mission Control of Journey has not talked about THEIR crash landing. THAT is first hand evidence...something concrete. If someone in Allen's former position came forth publicly and said, "yep, I know for a fact..." THEN that would mean something.

Likewise, I have lingering doubts about that quack Issac Newton.
He says gravity exists and is all around us, but if that is true, how come I don't see it?

Oh, and don't even get me started on that no-good piece of human excrement Galileo.....

You should really speak of things you know something about. You are not even making a valid comparison. The laws of motion and gravity were used to DESCRIBE UNDISPUTABLE FACTS...not to 'prove gravity exists".

You are putting forth a DISPUTABLE FACT and saying, "believe me cuz I say so." That doesn't prove anything to me other then you have a lot of time to waste listening to bootlegs.

[Monker]

When Augeri leaves, and JSS replaces him....the PROBLEM is not corrected.

That remains to be seen.
Jeff is pretty dynamic as a solo artist.
His website puts Journey's to shame.
I don't think he will be content making the yearly rounds to the corn-dog and cotton candy circuit.

He will attempt to rattle the cages and shake shit up.

So what. Journey is as Journey does and for the past number of years, Journey hasn't done shit.

I don't care about JSS website, or the bullshit propaganda that is spewed from the band. How much has this band talked for YEARS? Every year a new album is due. A concept album, various DVDs, a DVD box set...all kinds of stuff is ALWAYS talked about...and, what do we get?

A tour.

And, don't give me the BS that it's all Augeri's fault. It's not.

If JSS is not content with repeating, over and over again, what he did the past few months, then he won't be with Journey very long. And, like I said, in a couple years I don't expect Journey to exist the way it does today.

[Monker]

What I find particularly funny about this thread is the way so many people will go back to the conspiracy theory that someone fed tapes to Deano. What everyone seems to ignore is that Deano was one of Augeri's biggest fans for a long time. On other areas of this very site, the questions about Augeri lipping were being discussed long before Deano's blog surfaced. It was being discussed in the music biz amongst those "in the know" for the last 2 yrs. It wasn't public information at that time. But I'd be willing to bet it was being passed around in PMs here kept on the "QT". I've never quite understood why Svante had the guts to post on a newsgroup but perhaps he thought it would not get out seeing as he posted on a sound engineer's newsgroup. He is certainly a credible guy w/an obvious good reputation. The other people "in the know" that were "in the biz" were not willing to make this public as they knew it would ruin their reputation in the industry. But they did hint at it (& even admit what they knew) privately to people. Did it leak from Journey? Or did it just become so huge that it leaked out from so many dropping hints. I think it was the latter. I think Deano just happened to be the right kind of fan w/enough guts to take whatever was thrown at him for establishing his blog. If he hadn't had a very large pair of balls, this info may never have made it mainstream on the internet. Think about that.

You people make things so damn complicated. It's obvious to me from things said on this site that a few people in a clique speculated that some tapes sounded the same...and then Dean went on a binge and compared this and that and started alluding to it on the forum...making everybody wonder what was up. Then Dave made it public.

Monker, deny it all u want, but there's plenty of proof. TNC was right on about the moon insofar as this is concerned. But u obviously live in ur own little version of reality. I hope it's not as miserable as it appears from ur posts.

READ what I said. There IS NO EVIDENCE presented on this forum other then people listening to bootlegs and Svante. So what if people talk behind the scenes. That's not evidence...that's gossip.

[Monker]

If given the choice, I'll take Allen's word over yours, Deano's and even Jeremey's (no offense, Jeremy) any day of the week, month or year, simply because of his involvement with the band and his knowhow.

EXACTLY. Throughout the ENTIRE ordeal over the past few months all we have had are a bunch of NOBODY's on the internet speculating about bootlegs. THAT is my point. It's all speculation and theory and people BS'ing cuz they hate Augeri. To me that PROVES nothing.

[Monker]

The more this one gets thown around, I can't help feeling that Neal or Jon (and whoever else in the set-up) wanted the tapes to be public knowledge, hence leak it to a fan who they know would run with it, as a blog.

No sane person/business/band/artist/organization would want anything like what happened this year brought upon them.

Sure, things might work out ok in the end, but no one would bring the kind of PR we saw served up early in 06, upon themselves.

Only a fool would want Augeri to exit this band without a gag order so they can control it.

Only a fool would sign such an exit agreement, especialy if he has the band by the balls and a contract with them...and a desire to defend himself publicly.

So, you explain to me why people are speculating and blaming Augeri wanting more money....Instead of the band for wanting the gag order?