If Perry is Right Then Neal Is A Dick ...

Voted Worlds #1 Most Loonatic Fanbase

Moderator: Andrew

Postby Carlitto H@kk » Tue Dec 12, 2006 1:41 pm

squirt1 wrote:Maybe I had too many kids, but doctors have talked about the oldest of the family, the middle children and the youngest as having certain roles. They discussed if 2 oldest chidren married there is war or 2 youngest children married- war. Middle children are the negociators. Why wouldn't it apply in bands or relationships in general or the workplace. I won't even get into A & B type personalities.


Ok, your theory doesn't work here...

In theory, as far as 'time in the band', Perry would be the 'middle child' and he was FAR
from the negotiator.
Welcome to Terminus... You hungry?
User avatar
Carlitto H@kk
Stereo LP
 
Posts: 2891
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2006 3:27 am
Location: Home & Well

Postby Monker » Tue Dec 12, 2006 1:50 pm

I haven't read this entire thread, but I'm going to throw out a few things anyway:

What the hell does Perry care if Schon is releasing solo albums? Neal did not slow Journey down - AT ALL. If Neal went out and created a new band that delayed anything new from Journey for a year or two - THEN I can see why he would have a basis to complain. Perry isn't Neal's manager...and Journey was doing pretty damn well in 1981 thru 1984 when the Schon & Hammer albums, and HSAS came out.

Perry - on the other hand - by his own admission delayed anything new from Journey when Street Talk came out. There was an MTV interview where he specificaly said, "It would be foolish to release a new Journey album right now. The singles are doing well and we can't have another album out there with my voice on it. It would just be too much." That's not an exact quote, but it's close to what he said.

Also, where did NEAL say his solo albums were not "comercial"? I believe he said he did not go out and do anything that you could hold up beside Journey and say they were simular. You are not going to convince me that Schon & Hammer and HSAS could be mistaken for Journey - at all...even with "Self Defense".

I wish Perry would have done a R&B album or a Blues album, or whatever...and stayed away from a simple pop album. Street Talk was good, great, whatever...but he could have dug into his roots a LOT more and blown people away by it.
Monker
MP3
 
Posts: 12648
Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2002 12:40 pm

Postby Enigma869 » Tue Dec 12, 2006 1:50 pm

Not to mention there is a theory in Psychology called "ordinal position", which simply means the order you are born into your family. The theory suggests that the youngest one is usually the most independent one, for obvious reasons. Wouldn't that mean Cain should have had the more successful solo career :lol: All this Psychology talk is giving me college flashbacks!


John from Boston
User avatar
Enigma869
Digital Audio Tape
 
Posts: 7753
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 11:38 am
Location: Back In The Civilized Part Of U.S.

Postby Andrew » Tue Dec 12, 2006 1:53 pm

Monker wrote:I haven't read this entire thread, but I'm going to throw out a few things anyway:




Congratulations, you made it thru a whole post without complaining about how I run the forum.
User avatar
Andrew
Administrator
 
Posts: 10961
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2002 9:12 pm
Location: Hobart, Tasmania, Australia

Postby Carlitto H@kk » Tue Dec 12, 2006 1:54 pm

Enigma869 wrote:Not to mention there is a theory in Psychology called "ordinal position", which simply means the order you are born into your family. The theory suggests that the youngest one is usually the most independent one, for obvious reasons. Wouldn't that mean Cain should have had the more successful solo career :lol: All this Psychology talk is giving me college flashbacks!


John from Boston


Fuck flashbacks, I'm still in fantasy land
Motorboatin' all the way to China :D
Image
Welcome to Terminus... You hungry?
User avatar
Carlitto H@kk
Stereo LP
 
Posts: 2891
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2006 3:27 am
Location: Home & Well

Postby Monker » Tue Dec 12, 2006 2:00 pm

Andrew wrote:
Monker wrote:I haven't read this entire thread, but I'm going to throw out a few things anyway:



Congratulations, you made it thru a whole post without complaining about how I run the forum.


Read my last dozen or so posts in the Journey forum...I have NOT been doing that here recently. I only did it in the Styx forum because THAT WAS THE SUBJECT OF THE THREAD BEFORE I EVEN MADE MY POST(S).

Look, I know you are pissed off about "whatever"...but there's no sense in looking for motives in my posts that are not there.
Monker
MP3
 
Posts: 12648
Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2002 12:40 pm

Postby Enigma869 » Tue Dec 12, 2006 2:08 pm

Monker wrote: You are not going to convince me that Schon & Hammer and HSAS could be mistaken for Journey - at all.




Monker...

Nothing with Neal Schon singing lead was going to be confused as Journey, period, end of story! Journey was a band that relied upon soaring vocals from one of the most talented vocalists of his time, and Schon simply can't sing his way out of a Karaoke bar! I still remember the video of "No More Lies" and thought to myself "What the hell was Schon thinking, and who told him he could sing"? I definitely agree with an earlier posting that anyone who thinks that Schon wasn't making an attempt at commercial success is delusional. You don't make a music video for MTV (which was the biggest thing on the planet back then) if commercial success isn't your intent! The bottom line is that Neal simply wasn't then and isn't today the type of vocalist to have commercial success, because the dude simply can't sing!


John from Boston
User avatar
Enigma869
Digital Audio Tape
 
Posts: 7753
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 11:38 am
Location: Back In The Civilized Part Of U.S.

Postby Tom Jrnyfn » Tue Dec 12, 2006 2:08 pm

Monker wrote:I haven't read this entire thread, but I'm going to throw out a few things anyway:

What the hell does Perry care if Schon is releasing solo albums? Neal did not slow Journey down - AT ALL. If Neal went out and created a new band that delayed anything new from Journey for a year or two - THEN I can see why he would have a basis to complain. Perry isn't Neal's manager...and Journey was doing pretty damn well in 1981 thru 1984 when the Schon & Hammer albums, and HSAS came out.

Perry - on the other hand - by his own admission delayed anything new from Journey when Street Talk came out. There was an MTV interview where he specificaly said, "It would be foolish to release a new Journey album right now. The singles are doing well and we can't have another album out there with my voice on it. It would just be too much." That's not an exact quote, but it's close to what he said.

Also, where did NEAL say his solo albums were not "comercial"? I believe he said he did not go out and do anything that you could hold up beside Journey and say they were simular. You are not going to convince me that Schon & Hammer and HSAS could be mistaken for Journey - at all...even with "Self Defense".

I wish Perry would have done a R&B album or a Blues album, or whatever...and stayed away from a simple pop album. Street Talk was good, great, whatever...but he could have dug into his roots a LOT more and blown people away by it.


I agree..Journey should have had 2 or maybe 3 more albums from 81-87..
Tom Jrnyfn
45 RPM
 
Posts: 202
Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2006 12:25 am

Postby Carlitto H@kk » Tue Dec 12, 2006 2:18 pm

Tom Jrnyfn wrote:
Monker wrote:I haven't read this entire thread, but I'm going to throw out a few things anyway:

What the hell does Perry care if Schon is releasing solo albums? Neal did not slow Journey down - AT ALL. If Neal went out and created a new band that delayed anything new from Journey for a year or two - THEN I can see why he would have a basis to complain. Perry isn't Neal's manager...and Journey was doing pretty damn well in 1981 thru 1984 when the Schon & Hammer albums, and HSAS came out.

Perry - on the other hand - by his own admission delayed anything new from Journey when Street Talk came out. There was an MTV interview where he specificaly said, "It would be foolish to release a new Journey album right now. The singles are doing well and we can't have another album out there with my voice on it. It would just be too much." That's not an exact quote, but it's close to what he said.

Also, where did NEAL say his solo albums were not "comercial"? I believe he said he did not go out and do anything that you could hold up beside Journey and say they were simular. You are not going to convince me that Schon & Hammer and HSAS could be mistaken for Journey - at all...even with "Self Defense".

I wish Perry would have done a R&B album or a Blues album, or whatever...and stayed away from a simple pop album. Street Talk was good, great, whatever...but he could have dug into his roots a LOT more and blown people away by it.


I agree..Journey should have had 2 or maybe 3 more albums from 81-87..


I am actually glad they parted after ROR...
The band, if you want to call it that, wasn't really headed in the right
direction at that point...
Welcome to Terminus... You hungry?
User avatar
Carlitto H@kk
Stereo LP
 
Posts: 2891
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2006 3:27 am
Location: Home & Well

Postby Monker » Tue Dec 12, 2006 2:19 pm

Enigma869 wrote:Monker...

Nothing with Neal Schon singing lead was going to be confused as Journey, period, end of story!


TRUE...But, put Neal in the Storm, and it would be mistaken for Journey...they were mistaken for Journey even without Neal....AND NEAL WAS ASKED TO JOIN THE BAND, and he declined.

THAT is Neal's point. He could have went out and did something Journey'ish and sold millions of albums...but he didn't - never has. Even Soul SirkUS isn't much like Journey. "Outside projects" is EXACTLY that - ways to express himself musicaly that can not be expressed in Journey.

I definitely agree with an earlier posting that anyone who thinks that Schon wasn't making an attempt at commercial success is delusional.


And, I'm not arguing with that. Of course he wanted to sell albums. But, he was doing it without recording stuff that could be held up and compared to Journey Why did you ignore this point within your reply? Does anybody actually believe Sony would release an album where they artist had an attitude of, "Gee, I don't care if this album even sells!"

In addition - why did Steve Perry go off in a pop direction instead of doing what Neal did and expressing himself in a COMPLETELY different way then he was doing in Journey? Maybe because he knew he could sell more albums with pop music instead of R&B or blues?
Monker
MP3
 
Posts: 12648
Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2002 12:40 pm

Postby Monker » Tue Dec 12, 2006 2:21 pm

Carlitto H@kk wrote:I am actually glad they parted after ROR...
The band, if you want to call it that, wasn't really headed in the right
direction at that point...


Of course they weren't...one member of the band stole the keys.
Monker
MP3
 
Posts: 12648
Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2002 12:40 pm

Postby Aaron » Tue Dec 12, 2006 2:49 pm

Dude,

Can I get a ride in that motorboat too? :) She is pretty cool.

L8r,

Aaron

Carlitto H@kk wrote:
Enigma869 wrote:Not to mention there is a theory in Psychology called "ordinal position", which simply means the order you are born into your family. The theory suggests that the youngest one is usually the most independent one, for obvious reasons. Wouldn't that mean Cain should have had the more successful solo career :lol: All this Psychology talk is giving me college flashbacks!


John from Boston


Fuck flashbacks, I'm still in fantasy land
Motorboatin' all the way to China :D
Image
Taking life a quarter mile at a time .... [img]
User avatar
Aaron
Stereo LP
 
Posts: 2510
Joined: Fri Sep 06, 2002 9:55 pm
Location: Indiana, USA

Postby Tom Jrnyfn » Tue Dec 12, 2006 3:02 pm

Carlitto H@kk wrote:
Tom Jrnyfn wrote:
Monker wrote:I haven't read this entire thread, but I'm going to throw out a few things anyway:

What the hell does Perry care if Schon is releasing solo albums? Neal did not slow Journey down - AT ALL. If Neal went out and created a new band that delayed anything new from Journey for a year or two - THEN I can see why he would have a basis to complain. Perry isn't Neal's manager...and Journey was doing pretty damn well in 1981 thru 1984 when the Schon & Hammer albums, and HSAS came out.

Perry - on the other hand - by his own admission delayed anything new from Journey when Street Talk came out. There was an MTV interview where he specificaly said, "It would be foolish to release a new Journey album right now. The singles are doing well and we can't have another album out there with my voice on it. It would just be too much." That's not an exact quote, but it's close to what he said.

Also, where did NEAL say his solo albums were not "comercial"? I believe he said he did not go out and do anything that you could hold up beside Journey and say they were simular. You are not going to convince me that Schon & Hammer and HSAS could be mistaken for Journey - at all...even with "Self Defense".

I wish Perry would have done a R&B album or a Blues album, or whatever...and stayed away from a simple pop album. Street Talk was good, great, whatever...but he could have dug into his roots a LOT more and blown people away by it.


I agree..Journey should have had 2 or maybe 3 more albums from 81-87..


I am actually glad they parted after ROR...
The band, if you want to call it that, wasn't really headed in the right
direction at that point...


I think they were really over after Frontiers..A missed opportunity for a couple more good albums..
Tom Jrnyfn
45 RPM
 
Posts: 202
Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2006 12:25 am

Postby Matthew » Tue Dec 12, 2006 8:41 pm

Red13JoePa wrote:
1) We know the reasons behind tapegate unlike with Perry bailing in the middle of the ROR tour.
"Toast?" :?


Well, the ROR tour went on pretty relentlessly for five or six months - so I'm not sure he quit in the "middle" of it - but you're right - Perry's reasons for leaving aren't as clear cut as Augeri's. Maybe it was just that Perry was "drained and exhausted"...or that he felt that Journey had peaked and it was time to quit at the top before the decline set in...or that he had addiction problems....who knows?

But one thing is clear - when he felt he couldn't perform to the standards he demanded of himself he didn't fake it on stage and pretend it wasn't happening. He did the right thing and told Schon and Cain he couldn't go on.


2) Kinda true, the ballz on Schon/Cain asking Perry if he felt like doing something in 1989. They should've ASSUMED w/ out the asking that he was still "toast" :? 3 years after first getting toasted. They should've just known that they should do whatever they wanted at that point (long's it didn't "crack stone :lol:," mind you, as we saw what happened later when they tried the stone-cracking of Journey: a Chalfont-led Journey aborted by a tourless TBF and gag-orders for the band and no-show singing gigs for perry).


Red - sorry - I was wrong about Cain asking Perry to rejoin in '89. The interview was from '89 and in it Cain makes it absolutely clear that Perry was straight and decisive with them in '87.


3) You that sure a perry-less Journey would've bombed in the '89 climate?


I posted the link/extracts from the Cain interview in a reply to SF-Dano earlier - but here's the part where Cain talks about a Perry-less Journey in 1989. Of course, Cain would now be dismissed as a Loon for saying this:

"(Perry) was the leader of the show who finally said, "No more!" We couldn't go on without him. Rather than talking about putting a new Journey together without Steve Perry, rather than forging ahead and trying to put a facelift on the situation like so many bands in the past have tried to do but failed miserably at, Neal and I chose to leave the legacy alive, and that's not taking anything away from the two of us, Journey is just not recognized as Journey without Steve Perry singing the music."

Come on Jonathan, there is more to Journey than just the voice. You wrote the songs, Neal's powerful guitar work took the music to another level, and Steve Perry put in the emotion.

"Listen to me, Steve Perry was a lot of the face and the fire, and when he lost the direction and said, "You know, I don't know anymore," that was the point where everything should be laid to rest.

Neal Schon is Journey, don't get me wrong, but the two of us together doesn't constitute claiming the name whatsoever. We'd be jipping the people out of something that is real special."
User avatar
Matthew
Stereo LP
 
Posts: 4979
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2006 2:47 am
Location: London

Postby RedWingFan » Tue Dec 12, 2006 8:58 pm

Matthew wrote:
Red13JoePa wrote:
1) We know the reasons behind tapegate unlike with Perry bailing in the middle of the ROR tour.
"Toast?" :?


Well, the ROR tour went on pretty relentlessly for five or six months - so I'm not sure he quit in the "middle" of it - but you're right - Perry's reasons for leaving aren't as clear cut as Augeri's. Maybe it was just that Perry was "drained and exhausted"...or that he felt that Journey had peaked and it was time to quit at the top before the decline set in...or that he had addiction problems....who knows?

But one thing is clear - when he felt he couldn't perform to the standards he demanded of himself he didn't fake it on stage and pretend it wasn't happening. He did the right thing and told Schon and Cain he couldn't go on.


2) Kinda true, the ballz on Schon/Cain asking Perry if he felt like doing something in 1989. They should've ASSUMED w/ out the asking that he was still "toast" :? 3 years after first getting toasted. They should've just known that they should do whatever they wanted at that point (long's it didn't "crack stone :lol:," mind you, as we saw what happened later when they tried the stone-cracking of Journey: a Chalfont-led Journey aborted by a tourless TBF and gag-orders for the band and no-show singing gigs for perry).


Red - sorry - I was wrong about Cain asking Perry to rejoin in '89. The interview was from '89 and in it Cain makes it absolutely clear that Perry was straight and decisive with them in '87.


3) You that sure a perry-less Journey would've bombed in the '89 climate?


I posted the link/extracts from the Cain interview in a reply to SF-Dano earlier - but here's the part where Cain talks about a Perry-less Journey in 1989. Of course, Cain would now be dismissed as a Loon for saying this:

"(Perry) was the leader of the show who finally said, "No more!" We couldn't go on without him. Rather than talking about putting a new Journey together without Steve Perry, rather than forging ahead and trying to put a facelift on the situation like so many bands in the past have tried to do but failed miserably at, Neal and I chose to leave the legacy alive, and that's not taking anything away from the two of us, Journey is just not recognized as Journey without Steve Perry singing the music."
Come on Jonathan, there is more to Journey than just the voice. You wrote the songs, Neal's powerful guitar work took the music to another level, and Steve Perry put in the emotion.

"Listen to me, Steve Perry was a lot of the face and the fire, and when he lost the direction and said, "You know, I don't know anymore," that was the point where everything should be laid to rest.
Neal Schon is Journey, don't get me wrong, but the two of us together doesn't constitute claiming the name whatsoever. We'd be jipping the people out of something that is real special."

Wow, I'd never seen this Matthew. Thanks for posting it.
Seven Wishes wrote:"Abysmal? He's the most proactive President since Clinton, and he's bringing much-needed change for the better to a nation that has been tyrannized by the worst President since Hoover."- 7 Wishes on Pres. Obama
User avatar
RedWingFan
Digital Audio Tape
 
Posts: 7868
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2006 5:37 pm
Location: The Peoples Republic of Michigan

Postby NealIsGod » Tue Dec 12, 2006 10:12 pm

What Cain didn't understand back then is that Journey's music is timeless, and one person's career decision shouldn't derail the band. What if they would have called it quits when Rolie left? Then we wouldn't have E5C4P3 and Frontiers.

Perry was the best singer ever, IMO, but Journey did exist before he was in the band. The Perry era was the most successful one, but who's to say the JSS era won't also be great? As long as past members are respected for their contributions, and new ones are given a chance to shine, the Journey should go on.
User avatar
NealIsGod
MP3
 
Posts: 12512
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 2:20 am
Location: Back in Black

Postby Perry86fan » Tue Dec 12, 2006 10:38 pm

[quote="RockinDeano"]I KNOW what went down.

Neal is NOT a dick. Someone else is.[/quote

Deano If you think you know so much?Then please let the rest of us know too.There is worng on both sides it seems to me. I am sick & tired of everyone saying well i know just what happened ...and that sockboy is not the one to blame. That is just" bulllshit"
Perry86fan
8 Track
 
Posts: 807
Joined: Tue Jul 04, 2006 7:16 am
Location: Fl

Postby Enigma869 » Tue Dec 12, 2006 11:08 pm

Matthew wrote:"(Perry) was the leader of the show who finally said, "No more!" We couldn't go on without him. Rather than talking about putting a new Journey together without Steve Perry, rather than forging ahead and trying to put a facelift on the situation like so many bands in the past have tried to do but failed miserably at, Neal and I chose to leave the legacy alive, and that's not taking anything away from the two of us, Journey is just not recognized as Journey without Steve Perry singing the music."

Come on Jonathan, there is more to Journey than just the voice. You wrote the songs, Neal's powerful guitar work took the music to another level, and Steve Perry put in the emotion.

"Listen to me, Steve Perry was a lot of the face and the fire, and when he lost the direction and said, "You know, I don't know anymore," that was the point where everything should be laid to rest.

Neal Schon is Journey, don't get me wrong, but the two of us together doesn't constitute claiming the name whatsoever. We'd be jipping the people out of something that is real special."


Very interesting words from Cain. Given what has ultimately happened to Journey since Perry departed, those words sort of resonate a bit more. Let's hope they pull it back together for one more run!

John from Boston
User avatar
Enigma869
Digital Audio Tape
 
Posts: 7753
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 11:38 am
Location: Back In The Civilized Part Of U.S.

Postby Enigma869 » Tue Dec 12, 2006 11:32 pm

NealIsGod wrote:Journey did exist before he was in the band.



This is the statement that's always amused me the most. "Journey existed before Perry was in the band"! Sure they did! The name "Journey" existed before Perry came along...nobody can dispute that! That said, they existed in name, only! The Journey everyone came to know did NOT exist before Perry! I don't know a lot about Journey, before Perry, as I was a bit young and it wasn't my kind of music. The Journey that existed before Perry was a completely different band, and a completely different genre of music, altogether!

For the record, I think Jonathan Cain's addition to Journey was every bit as important as Perry's addition to the band, so this isn't about giving Perry all the credit for Journey's success. I just think it's ludicrous for anyone to hang their hat on the whole "Journey existed before Perry" line. As I've said 100 times...there aren't 20 people outside of the bay area who had any freakin' clue who "Journey" was before Perry was brought into the band, and their putrid album sales, prior to Perry's arrival, proves that!

I do agree with NIG that one band member's career aspirations definitely shouldn't "derail" an entire band's destiny and future, which is why I'm pretty okay with still listening to Journey music with Jeff at the helm. I just think that it's important to understand that the fans of a particular band will ultimately decide whether or not it's okay for one member to control the future of a band. I'm still not convinced that most Journey fans will ever accept "Journey" without Perry, especially when 99% of the material they continue singing was made famous by his voice!

John from Boston
User avatar
Enigma869
Digital Audio Tape
 
Posts: 7753
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 11:38 am
Location: Back In The Civilized Part Of U.S.

Postby L~L~L » Tue Dec 12, 2006 11:35 pm

Thanks Matthew, this is an interesting read. :D

Matthew wrote:
Red13JoePa wrote:
1) We know the reasons behind tapegate unlike with Perry bailing in the middle of the ROR tour.
"Toast?" :?


Well, the ROR tour went on pretty relentlessly for five or six months - so I'm not sure he quit in the "middle" of it - but you're right - Perry's reasons for leaving aren't as clear cut as Augeri's. Maybe it was just that Perry was "drained and exhausted"...or that he felt that Journey had peaked and it was time to quit at the top before the decline set in...or that he had addiction problems....who knows?

But one thing is clear - when he felt he couldn't perform to the standards he demanded of himself he didn't fake it on stage and pretend it wasn't happening. He did the right thing and told Schon and Cain he couldn't go on.


2) Kinda true, the ballz on Schon/Cain asking Perry if he felt like doing something in 1989. They should've ASSUMED w/ out the asking that he was still "toast" :? 3 years after first getting toasted. They should've just known that they should do whatever they wanted at that point (long's it didn't "crack stone :lol:," mind you, as we saw what happened later when they tried the stone-cracking of Journey: a Chalfont-led Journey aborted by a tourless TBF and gag-orders for the band and no-show singing gigs for perry).


Red - sorry - I was wrong about Cain asking Perry to rejoin in '89. The interview was from '89 and in it Cain makes it absolutely clear that Perry was straight and decisive with them in '87.


3) You that sure a perry-less Journey would've bombed in the '89 climate?


I posted the link/extracts from the Cain interview in a reply to SF-Dano earlier - but here's the part where Cain talks about a Perry-less Journey in 1989. Of course, Cain would now be dismissed as a Loon for saying this:

"(Perry) was the leader of the show who finally said, "No more!" We couldn't go on without him. Rather than talking about putting a new Journey together without Steve Perry, rather than forging ahead and trying to put a facelift on the situation like so many bands in the past have tried to do but failed miserably at, Neal and I chose to leave the legacy alive, and that's not taking anything away from the two of us, Journey is just not recognized as Journey without Steve Perry singing the music."

Come on Jonathan, there is more to Journey than just the voice. You wrote the songs, Neal's powerful guitar work took the music to another level, and Steve Perry put in the emotion.

"Listen to me, Steve Perry was a lot of the face and the fire, and when he lost the direction and said, "You know, I don't know anymore," that was the point where everything should be laid to rest.

Neal Schon is Journey, don't get me wrong, but the two of us together doesn't constitute claiming the name whatsoever. We'd be jipping the people out of something that is real special."
Whose rights are guaranteed by the Constitution and the Bill of Rights?
Everyone citizens and non-citizens living in U.S.
L~L~L
8 Track
 
Posts: 662
Joined: Sat Apr 08, 2006 11:25 pm
Location: here and there

Postby NealIsGod » Wed Dec 13, 2006 12:48 am

Enigma869 wrote:
NealIsGod wrote:Journey did exist before he was in the band.



This is the statement that's always amused me the most. "Journey existed before Perry was in the band"! Sure they did! The name "Journey" existed before Perry came along...nobody can dispute that! That said, they existed in name, only! The Journey everyone came to know did NOT exist before Perry! I don't know a lot about Journey, before Perry, as I was a bit young and it wasn't my kind of music. The Journey that existed before Perry was a completely different band, and a completely different genre of music, altogether!

For the record, I think Jonathan Cain's addition to Journey was every bit as important as Perry's addition to the band, so this isn't about giving Perry all the credit for Journey's success. I just think it's ludicrous for anyone to hang their hat on the whole "Journey existed before Perry" line. As I've said 100 times...there aren't 20 people outside of the bay area who had any freakin' clue who "Journey" was before Perry was brought into the band, and their putrid album sales, prior to Perry's arrival, proves that!

I do agree with NIG that one band member's career aspirations definitely shouldn't "derail" an entire band's destiny and future, which is why I'm pretty okay with still listening to Journey music with Jeff at the helm. I just think that it's important to understand that the fans of a particular band will ultimately decide whether or not it's okay for one member to control the future of a band. I'm still not convinced that most Journey fans will ever accept "Journey" without Perry, especially when 99% of the material they continue singing was made famous by his voice!

John from Boston


I am glad you added your comments about Cain. When he joined the group is when Journey really took off, not when Perry joined. Journey is more than one man, but Neal is the heart and soul of the band. Perry was great, but obviously wasn't built for longevity.
User avatar
NealIsGod
MP3
 
Posts: 12512
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 2:20 am
Location: Back in Black

Postby Deb » Wed Dec 13, 2006 1:01 am

NealIsGod wrote: The Perry era was the most successful one, but who's to say the JSS era won't also be great? As long as past members are respected for their contributions, and new ones are given a chance to shine, the Journey should go on.


Couldn't agree more!
Deb
MP3
 
Posts: 14934
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 11:23 am
Location: Gotta Love The Ride!

Postby Red13JoePa » Wed Dec 13, 2006 1:10 am

Matt: 89, 87 whatever....good interview you found. Shed some light.

Wish it hadn't happened that way, that they could've come back in say, '91 like Van halen did w/ F.U.C.K., followed by the box the following year.

Instead we got silence from Perry, the second probably inferior Bad English record, Hardline and the most Journey thing of 88-91 The Storm for goddsake. I still don't count Tall Stories aside from the vox as being near as Journeyesque as The Storm
"I love almost everybody."---Rocky Balboa 1990
"Let's reform this thing.Let's go out and get some guys who want to work and go do it"--Neal Schon February, 2001
"I looked at Neal, and I just saw a guy who really wants his band back"-JCain 2/01
Red13JoePa
MP3
 
Posts: 11646
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 11:43 pm
Location: Happy Valley

Postby yogi » Wed Dec 13, 2006 1:20 am

I searched half the damn night and I finally found the article that talks about Steve's almost venture into rap. If Neal would not of been such a TOTAL prick Street Talk would of been titled Street Cred and it would have been a completely different album. Some of the info that I presented yesterday was wrong. It wasnt intentional, I just remembered it wrong. This may get a little lengthy and I may have some typos but here it is.

The following article apperaed in Billboard Magazine. www.billboardmusic1985/sperry/st.credinter/bostic.com. The article was written by a Larry Bostic. It is Titled 'Oh Steven- Steve Perrys Missed Opportunity'. I will skip the intro.

'Neal said the solo albums were cool as long as we both steared clear of the Journey sound. I knew Neals album would sound nothing like Journey shi t I didnt even want to hear it. It was just going to be one long ass guitar jam anyhow. Neal, Angus Young, Eddie Van Halen, who ever, its just guitar licks. Granted Neals awesome, but the Journey sound is my voice, singing some good guitar, keyboard driven music. Any good guitarist can play his parts. He even knows that. For me to make an album that didnt sound like Journey that would be a trick.

' Neal and one of our guys at Columbia Bruce Lundvall suggested that I do a rap album. They knew a guy who was into the west coast rap sound his name was Dre. Dre knew of me from my association with Michael Jackson. He knew I was a baseball fan so at our first meeting there is some black former batboy at the meeting. He is some up and coming rapper. At the time he is going by the name Drill Bit. Later he changes it to Hammer. We work on a few songs and its going well. We are going to start the album with a song called Cant Touch This.

'Next Dre brings in this white boy called Vanilla. We do a remake of a song called Play That Funky Music. It sounds great. I then pen a song called Ice Ice Baby. It sounds nothing like Journey. On my way out of that session some big ol' fat bastar d throws a few shots over my head. I heard it was some one named Smalls. Anyway, that night after the Giants game the Village People are doing a reunion show. Bruce, Dre , and Neal think it might be a good idea if I join em on stage. I dress up as The Butcher and I hammer out Macho Man and San Francisco with em. I was actually invited to go on tour with em, but I was to into my upcoming Street Cred album.

'The next day Dre brought in a young hot shot guitarist that was going by the name Swish. Neal was at this session and it pissed him off to no end because he felt that this guy was trying to copy his playing. I later heard that Nike stopped him from using the Swish title and that he hooked up with some singer that has some sort of flower name. Anyway, we did two songs called Give It To Me and Dirty Diana.'

'That night I was invited to a sleepover at the Neverland Ranch. Sice I arrived after 9 pm I knew the gates would all be locked. I cried over that. After I ran out of tissue I went home.'

' I then added four more songs Go Away, Captured By The Moment, She's Mine, and Strung Out. One month later the album was completed. I sent Neal a copy and he went through the roof. He demanded that I cut Strung Out, She's Mine, & Go Away. When I told him no, I knew Journey would never be the same. I had to get away and I headed to the farm.'

' While fixing a couple of coups drive by number two occured. It killed Joey Gobble, who was my favorite. I cried and cried. It was at that point that I knew I had to get out of the rap business. I called Dre and told him that other artists could have my songs. I change Street Cred, to Street Talk and the rest is history. Could I have made it as a rapper. I think so.

'After Joey( favorite Turkey) was killed I penned the song I Stand Alone. If you listen closely you can hear a gobble at the end.'

I'm out of time, but this is a great article. It tells alot about Steve Perry. It also shows that Neal indeed is a prick by putting Steve Perry through all of this.
yogi
Stereo LP
 
Posts: 4441
Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2003 5:57 am
Location: Carthage, Texas (FREE health care, housing, autos, gas, food, entertainment, FOR ALL!!)

Postby SF-Dano » Wed Dec 13, 2006 3:04 am

I will just say this. The Cain article and the Perry Rap article may be true, but I really find them hard to believe. There has been so many contrary quotes, articles, stories, etc. over the years. Perry doing a Rap album. :shock: I guess anything is possible, but it doesn't seem probable. Again we can all choose for ourselves what we want to believe, I personally do not believe everything I read or hear.

And again there are those that still have to prop Perry up at the expense of the others and consider their opinions fact. It was brought up that there was a Journey before Steve Perry. Then the usual retort of well there really wasn't because no body knew them and the had very little success. Well to say that this band could never have success without Perry is pure speculation and opinion, NOT FACT. Maybe they could have gotten another singer, maybe Fleishman would have stayed, maybe Gregg would have continued to front the band and they would have just changed the style of music they played. None of us really knows what might have happened, because it never happened that way.
Image
User avatar
SF-Dano
Cassette Tape
 
Posts: 1991
Joined: Sat Sep 07, 2002 9:00 am
Location: Near Sacramento missin' my City by the Bay

Postby Matthew » Wed Dec 13, 2006 3:18 am

SF-DANO wrote:I will just say this. The Cain article and the Perry Rap article may be true, but I really find them hard to believe.


Are you suggesting that Perryville are listing fake articles and interviews in their archive section? Come on SF...that's an absurd claim.

There is nothing fantastical or outlandish in the Cain interview. In fact, almost every answer he gave seemed reasonable and generous to me.

To just dismiss an interview as bogus because a senior member of Journey's take on the internal politics of the band differs from your own is...well, I'm sure you can do better than that, SF.
User avatar
Matthew
Stereo LP
 
Posts: 4979
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2006 2:47 am
Location: London

Postby Matthew » Wed Dec 13, 2006 3:32 am

Red13JoePa wrote:Matt: 89, 87 whatever....good interview you found. Shed some light.

Wish it hadn't happened that way, that they could've come back in say, '91 like Van halen did w/ F.U.C.K., followed by the box the following year.

Instead we got silence from Perry, the second probably inferior Bad English record, Hardline and the most Journey thing of 88-91 The Storm for goddsake. I still don't count Tall Stories aside from the vox as being near as Journeyesque as The Storm



I totally agree, Red. Whatever the reasons really were for Journey breaking up in the 1980s I can understand why Cain felt so frustrated and why he felt that the break-up was premature.

Elsewhere in that interview Cain talks about how the triple platinum selling ROR should have reassured Perry that Journey were still a vital force...that the band didn't have to maintain the sales of Escape and Frontiers in order to continue...that they still had the magic...and so on.

And as you say...1991 would have been a great time to release a new Journey record...but instead we got silence from Perry and succession of hugely inferior projects from Schon and Cain...and although some of the old magic was still there in 1996 it had dissipated.

But who knows? Maybe Perry's instincts were right in '87? Maybe the tide was turning against them and it was time to quit on a high?

And..very few bands...even the great ones... release more than three or four classic albums. So perhaps it's unreasonable for us to have expected Journey to keep up those unbelievably high standards for longer than they did.
User avatar
Matthew
Stereo LP
 
Posts: 4979
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2006 2:47 am
Location: London

Postby Carlitto H@kk » Wed Dec 13, 2006 3:41 am

This is a fun thread but I got one question...
Why do so many of you even respond to Yogi's
shit? you're telling me you actually BELIEVE
all tthose supposed "interview excerts"???
Please tell me you are all just 'playing along'
for the shear fun of it...

Come on, Yogi, throw out another
"Should be called Soul Sirkus" jab!
Haven't heard that enuff yet...
Welcome to Terminus... You hungry?
User avatar
Carlitto H@kk
Stereo LP
 
Posts: 2891
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2006 3:27 am
Location: Home & Well

Postby SF-Dano » Wed Dec 13, 2006 3:50 am

Matthew wrote:
SF-DANO wrote:I will just say this. The Cain article and the Perry Rap article may be true, but I really find them hard to believe.


Are you suggesting that Perryville are listing fake articles and interviews in their archive section? Come on SF...that's an absurd claim.

There is nothing fantastical or outlandish in the Cain interview. In fact, almost every answer he gave seemed reasonable and generous to me.

To just dismiss an interview as bogus because a senior member of Journey's take on the internal politics of the band differs from your own is...well, I'm sure you can do better than that, SF.


I am not saying the article is fake, I am almost sure that there is an article/interview out there that says this. However, the accuracy of any article can be open for debate. In BTM, Cyndi and Laura, heads of Perry's fan club, both basically said that they received many questions as to the status of the band in the years following ROR. They had no answer other than that Journey was "somewhere between broken up and working on a new album". Jon Cain then again contradicts this article in BTM when he says he had not heard from Perry in years until the call for TBF, basically he had not heard from Perry since Neal, Jon and Steve met to discuss continuing the ROR tour and Perry stated he was "toast". So apparently this senior member of Journey's take on the internal politics of the band changes or differs depending on the time, place, and person he his talking to. There are just to many contradictory stories, qoutes, etc. from all past and present memebers in the history of Journey in regards to serious and even simple issues.

And again to all, why the need to portray one band member as a saint at the expense of portraying the other(s) as dicks. Steve Perry was an extremely talented vocalist, Neal Schon is an extremely talented guitarist, and the rest are all extremely talented at their art. Not one of them is saintly, perfect, or the idealic image of Mr. Nice guy. As I think even the band would admit, there is plenty of blame to go around with all the members in the band for certain issues that led to the demise of Joureny in the 80s.

As I think I have gotten my opinion and point of view across, I will try to make this my last comment on the subject in this thread.
Image
User avatar
SF-Dano
Cassette Tape
 
Posts: 1991
Joined: Sat Sep 07, 2002 9:00 am
Location: Near Sacramento missin' my City by the Bay

Postby Matthew » Wed Dec 13, 2006 3:51 am

Enigma869 wrote:
I do agree with NIG that one band member's career aspirations definitely shouldn't "derail" an entire band's destiny and future



No - perhaps ideally it shouldn't - but it usually does....Bonham 'derailed' Led Zep, Cobain derailed Nirvana, Lennon (arguably) derailed the Beatles in the late 60s, Johnny Rotten deailed the Sex Pistols, Mick Jones derailed the Clash and so on.

Genesis and Van Halen aside....the more legendary the band the more likely it is that it can't sustain a significant change in the line-up.....
User avatar
Matthew
Stereo LP
 
Posts: 4979
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2006 2:47 am
Location: London

PreviousNext

Return to Journey

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 23 guests