Did the band like Augeri?

[JeremyP]

He said something that at the time horrified me, which was to continue Journey as was, then have a side project spin-off with all the band members called JRNY (like the side of the Red13 case) where they could just create songs those on Red13.


I hated that notion.

I had forgotten about that!! I remember when he said that too and I was like, "Wha?"

I liked the entire Red13 EP. I think people didn't get it in part because it wasn't the "soundtrack to our lives" that they were expecting. I think Jon made the statement that, "Journey writes music about our fans".....who made that rule?

If they go that route, they're painting themselves into a corner.

Every song doesn't have to be about a family or a married couple or keeping the faith in the heartland so they can find a better life and every generation being better together...it all kinda runs together y'know?

[Red13JoePa]

He said something that at the time horrified me, which was to continue Journey as was, then have a side project spin-off with all the band members called JRNY (like the side of the Red13 case) where they could just create songs those on Red13.


I hated that notion.

I had forgotten about that!! I remember when he said that too and I was like, "Wha?"

Yea, "Whaaaa...?" is right, especially the way Red13 went from being a new Journey product, to actually BEING the first installment of the fortunately aborted "JRNY" side project right in the course of the same interview.

[amaron]

Every song doesn't have to be about a family or a married couple or keeping the faith in the heartland so they can find a better life and every generation being better together...it all kinda runs together y'know?

Journey of 2006 will never be successful trying to be Journey of 1982. All we'll get is the same songs just rearranged into different live sets or we'll get something so far off of what Journey has been that it'll alienate the older fans.

They have yet to find that middle ground.

[JeremyP]

I wanna know what they would have done if JRNY had gotten radio play.

"Hey folks, here's a new track from JRNY, no not Journey, JRNY. That's Journey without the vowels and here they are with their new song "Neal's Riffbox".

lol

[Red13JoePa]

I wanna know what they would have done if JRNY had gotten radio play.

"Hey folks, here's a new track from JRNY, no not Journey, JRNY. That's Journey without the vowels and here they are with their new song "Neal's Riffbox".

lol

This one got an outloud guffaw....


"Neal's Riffbox"

[The_Noble_Cause]

Then they played it safe with the other 2.

You'll prolly contradict me on this and force me to scour online archives for proof, but the other 2 songs were Arrival left overs.

[Red13JoePa]

I think it's known fact that the overrated WAFTE had origins around Arrival, and from the sound of I C B it's more Arrival like than the other 2 rockers so it's a safe bet.

[Monker]

The "lipping" thing was VERY much a group effort. I dare you you to challenge me. Augeri, with the ENTIRE group's consent, was a fake. Rip ALL of them. Except JSS. Schon and Cain should be ripped just like Augeri.

I'm glad someone finally had the balls to step out of the mob opinion of Augeri and stop jacking off the rest of the band like they did nothing wrong.

I've said the above from the begining...and I believe a couple others did too. Or, are you just glad that a huge Perry fan wants people to hate Neal and Jon just as much as some now hate Augeri?

[Monker]

And, Neal is the one who most people believe holds the keys to Journey nowadays, and he stood up there and played beside Augeri. And, Jonathan went along for the ride...as did Ross and Deen. It's a BAND decision to do this...any one of them could have stopped it by refusing to play and back the decision.

The bottom line, though, is that Augeri was the one holding the mic. He was the one doing the faking. The buck ultimately stopped with him. There is no way anyone was forcing him to do what he did, particularly when he was a full partner.

The "lipping" thing was VERY much a group effort. I dare you you to challenge me. Augeri, with the ENTIRE group's consent, was a fake. Rip ALL of them. Except JSS. Schon and Cain should be ripped just like Augeri.

I'm glad someone finally had the balls to step out of the mob opinion of Augeri and stop jacking off the rest of the band like they did nothing wrong.

[Monker]

Then they played it safe with the other 2.

You'll prolly contradict me on this and force me to scour online archives for proof, but the other 2 songs were Arrival left overs.

Yep, TNC is correct.

[amaron]

The "lipping" thing was VERY much a group effort. I dare you you to challenge me. Augeri, with the ENTIRE group's consent, was a fake. Rip ALL of them. Except JSS. Schon and Cain should be ripped just like Augeri.

I'm glad someone finally had the balls to step out of the mob opinion of Augeri and stop jacking off the rest of the band like they did nothing wrong.

I've said the above from the begining...and I believe a couple others did too. Or, are you just glad that a huge Perry fan wants people to hate Neal and Jon just as much as some now hate Augeri?

Actually Monker, I haven't visited this board regularly in almost two months. If people have stood up for Augeri, then I just missed it. I made it my mission to stay away from here while the tapegate situation was going on.

[Red13JoePa]

Then they played it safe with the other 2.

You'll prolly contradict me on this and force me to scour online archives for proof, but the other 2 songs were Arrival left overs.

Yep, TNC is correct.

Good.
not quite sure if I insinuated anything else but ok.

[Jeremey]

It never looked like they were enjoying themselves - particularly Neal (except during Vacation's Over tour), the times I saw Journey...I always attributed it to some melancholy feeling that the band would never have the joy of performing those songs in the spirit in which they were originally written and performed. God bless Augeri, but to hear him ducking notes all night and breaking up on very signature vocal runs in those songs could not have been encouraging to the band. The funny thing was in November 2005, Augeri seemed to be able to hit all the notes, and yet the band seemed as despondent as ever.

[conversationpc]

It never looked like they were enjoying themselves - particularly Neal (except during Vacation's Over tour), the times I saw Journey...I always attributed it to some melancholy feeling that the band would never have the joy of performing those songs in the spirit in which they were originally written and performed. God bless Augeri, but to hear him ducking notes all night and breaking up on very signature vocal runs in those songs could not have been encouraging to the band. The funny thing was in November 2005, Augeri seemed to be able to hit all the notes, and yet the band seemed as despondent as ever.

I don't know...I don't remember Neal looking too terribly enthused during the Indianapolis show this year, either. Of course, Jeff was only a few shows into his tenure and was struggling a bit, so perhaps that was weighing on his mind. Who knows.

[Jeremey]

I don't know...I don't remember Neal looking too terribly enthused during the Indianapolis show this year, either. Of course, Jeff was only a few shows into his tenure and was struggling a bit, so perhaps that was weighing on his mind. Who knows.

Geez, I couldn't imagine the stress and tension everyone in that band was feeling on the first leg of this tour. Imagine walking out on stage in front of 18,000 people without any pants on. The second leg of that tour really showed a re-energized band, and once Jeff found his footing and got a little more control over the material, it was clear to me in Columbia that everyone on stage was a lot more relaxed & enthused than I had seen them in prior years.

[Eric]

The 2001 DVD is good.

"The Time" and "Kiss me Softly" are where Augeri needs to be.

I don't know what happened. Maybe he had enough power to not step down? I mean, we all don't know.

[lights1961]

Plus remember RED13? That's Neal & Jons vision & it wasn't very good... Plus Augeri sounded flat..

Jon indicated in interviews that it was more Neal's brainchild.
Even though two of the tracks were produced at Jon's house.

I don't think "State of Grace" holds up well under repeated listenings.
The middle eastern chords is ok, but what's the deal with the words "state - of - grace" being played in reverse towards the end?
Not cool, just plain stupid.

"The Time" actually reveals a band unit that is progressing towards a sound all their own. You hear a little bit of Augeri's "Rawthigh" in there, along with Neal's harder rocking self.

Too bad most fans' aghast reaction to Red 13, put the nail in the coffin of this band moving forward.
Neal even said he created SoulSirkus as a result.
So he could leave Journey alone, and not try to shoehorn all his musical endeavors into it.

I LOVED STATE OF GRACE LIVE!! I would love to hear JSS take on that song!! SMOKED on the under the radar tour..

[Eric]

[quote="Monker"] It's a BAND decision to do this...any one of them could have stopped it by refusing to play and back the decision.[quote]

I'd like to know what exactly happened. Did they all agree to start doing this? Did Schon want JSS in at the beginning of the Generations tour, and Augeri had too much power and the lipping ensued. Were Augeri and Elson working on the lipping and the band didn't know the extent because they are listening to the mix anyway? I don't know what happened or how it went down?

[amaron]

It's a BAND decision to do this...any one of them could have stopped it by refusing to play and back the decision.

I'd like to know what exactly happened. Did they all agree to start doing this? Did Schon want JSS in at the beginning of the Generations tour, and Augeri had too much power and the lipping ensued. Were Augeri and Elson working on the lipping and the band didn't know the extent because they are listening to the mix anyway? I don't know what happened or how it went down?

I'm pretty sure there is NO WAY the rest of the band didn't know.

I'm also pretty sure that there is NO WAY Augeri had too much power. Neal lost "his band" to one singer like that already, so I doubt he'd let it happen again.

[ohsherrie]

I'd like to know what exactly happened. Did they all agree to start doing this? Did Schon want JSS in at the beginning of the Generations tour, and Augeri had too much power and the lipping ensued. Were Augeri and Elson working on the lipping and the band didn't know the extent because they are listening to the mix anyway? I don't know what happened or how it went down?

A lot of people would still like to know what really happened with Perry too, but we'll never know. If you think about it, there are at least two sides to every conflict and even if we had all the info there would still be different takes on it. I think common sense can answer some of the questions in Augeri's case. The rest of the band had to know what was happening, but how much they could really do about it is another thing.

1. For some unfathomable reason they made this guy a full partner. That gave him decision making power.(his hold up of the official announcement proves that he wasn't too humble and sweet to use it)

2. The industry hasn't shown a lot of interest in Journey since they changed frontmen.

3. The remaining fanbase has been very supportive of Augeri and the casual concert goers didn't really care.

4. Management hasn't shown a lot of confidence in them either and was probably very sceptical of another change because of #s 1 thru 3.

5. It was probably hard for the band members to agree on what was the right solution.

6. After it got to the point where he wasn't able to sing live at all, they had to decide to take a leap of faith. Neither their fans nor Jeff let them fall.

JMHO of course.

[Eric]

Those are all great assumptions Sherrie.....I mean, as good as I or anyone has...

With Perry, I still contend things are pretty much as they appear, it is just an opinion of the individual if the action is good or bad of any of the parties involved.

I mean, I think Perry got hurt and it held up a TBF tour. I don't think it needed to hold up promotion as much as it did. I believe he deserved time to make a decision. And I believe he did owe the band a somewhat timely decision, being that it is their careers and they weren't kids. I believe the band thought he would hold them up for a long time, and they decided to take a risk. I believe it was a good risk, because now 9 years later Perry is still at the very least "mostly-retired". I believe had they waited Journey would have been gone forever. I think that Perry will sing at least one song with Journey again.

Now, maybe Journey could have gone with someone else and called it JRNY or something. THAT is totally matter of opinion. But the fact Perry had health issues, seems to be retired, doesn't make quick decisions, and the guys aren't kids....those all seem to be facts.

[ohsherrie]

Those are all great assumptions Sherrie.....I mean, as good as I or anyone has...

With Perry, I still contend things are pretty much as they appear, it is just an opinion of the individual if the action is good or bad of any of the parties involved.

I mean, I think Perry got hurt and it held up a TBF tour. I don't think it needed to hold up promotion as much as it did. I believe he deserved time to make a decision. And I believe he did owe the band a somewhat timely decision, being that it is their careers and they weren't kids. I believe the band thought he would hold them up for a long time, and they decided to take a risk. I believe it was a good risk, because now 9 years later Perry is still at the very least "mostly-retired". I believe had they waited Journey would have been gone forever. I think that Perry will sing at least one song with Journey again.

Now, maybe Journey could have gone with someone else and called it JRNY or something. THAT is totally matter of opinion. But the fact Perry had health issues, seems to be retired, doesn't make quick decisions, and the guys aren't kids....those all seem to be facts.

I don't disagree with anything you said Eric. There were issues and power plays on both sides of the situation with Perry. The best thing I can say about the decision the band made, now after 9 tumultuous years , is Jeff Scott Soto.

[Rockindeano]

And, Neal is the one who most people believe holds the keys to Journey nowadays, and he stood up there and played beside Augeri. And, Jonathan went along for the ride...as did Ross and Deen. It's a BAND decision to do this...any one of them could have stopped it by refusing to play and back the decision.

Hey numbnuts, I thought you said "Tapegate" was all bullshit? Not true? A bunch of Dean's lies? Now, you are on to blame.


I see now.

[The_Noble_Cause]

And, Neal is the one who most people believe holds the keys to Journey nowadays,

Doesn't necessarily make it so.
He just wants to play guitar.

Jonathan Cain is the snake in the grass.
Look out for that two faced motherfucker.

[bionic]

And I wouldn't be shocked one bit to find out that it was Augeri who was actually issuing the ultimatums.

There is no way anyone was forcing him to do what he did, particularly when he was a full partner.

The "lipping" thing was VERY much a group effort. I dare you you to challenge me. Augeri, with the ENTIRE group's consent, was a fake. Rip ALL of them. Except JSS. Schon and Cain should be ripped just like Augeri.

I'm glad someone finally had the balls to step out of the mob opinion of Augeri and stop jacking off the rest of the band like they did nothing wrong.

I might have to disagree with that a bit. Not that it wasn't possible that it was his decision, I wouldn't be shocked one bit to find out that an ultimatum was made.

They wanted Augeri gone a long time ago....he chose to stay! In the history of music i have never heard of a singer being forced to mime? What is tragic is most people never actually got to here Augeri live as by all accounts he had taped help for some years.

[L~L~L]

Did the band like Augeri?

Yes very much so while they were raking in the dough then they got found out and there came the kick in the ass!

[Sundet]

There's one thing that makes me suspicious about the band's relations with Augeri: IF Augeri's pipes had been permanently blown, how come he's releasing a solo album next year? Obviously the guy's still capable of singing (albeit likely with a lower range), so if the boys in the band had really, really wanted Augeri to stay, he would've - the release of the solo thing suggests he hasn't permanently lost his pipes, but that his temporary abscence made the band go with JSS on a permanent basis.

I suppose Andrew knows everything but for obvious reasons can't say anything, which I really do understand.

My guess is that Augeri at the end basically clung on to the Journey mic with both hands (and tapes I guess) whilst other band members (though not necessarily all) might've wanted to sack him. Judging from Andrew's interviews, it might seem as though Jonathan Cain still wanted Augeri in (that's MY guess though).

Nevertheless I am glad to have JSS with them, 'cause he is simply the best!

[ohsherrie]

There's one thing that makes me suspicious about the band's relations with Augeri: IF Augeri's pipes had been permanently blown, how come he's releasing a solo album next year? Obviously the guy's still capable of singing (albeit likely with a lower range), so if the boys in the band had really, really wanted Augeri to stay, he would've - the release of the solo thing suggests he hasn't permanently lost his pipes, but that his temporary abscence made the band go with JSS on a permanent basis.

Keep in mind that it's a lot easier to sound good in a studio than it is touring live. He may have been recording material for this CD, if it actually happens, for years now.

[The_Noble_Cause]

What is tragic is most people never actually got to here Augeri live as by all accounts he had taped help for some years.

Not as extensive as it was in '05, but that's correct.

[The_Noble_Cause]

There's one thing that makes me suspicious about the band's relations with Augeri: IF Augeri's pipes had been permanently blown, how come he's releasing a solo album next year? Obviously the guy's still capable of singing (albeit likely with a lower range), so if the boys in the band had really, really wanted Augeri to stay, he would've - the release of the solo thing suggests he hasn't permanently lost his pipes, but that his temporary abscence made the band go with JSS on a permanent basis.

"Generations" features some of Augeri's best vocal work ever.
By the time of recording, he was already plagued by many vocal problems.
Touring and recording are two different beasts.