This may be a mistake

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This may be a mistake

Postby ohsherrie » Fri Dec 29, 2006 1:13 am

But I'm gonna do it anyway. I'll try to be as diplomatic as possible. At least a little more so than the ones I'm replying to.

Andrew,

If this is over the line please feel free to delete it, I won't take offense.

I just, for some inexplicable reason, read that entire "This used to be Deen's interview" thread on the other site. I'm appalled at the way Andrew is treated in that thread. I guess I'm not surprised, but I am appalled. I wouldn't be replying here if I could do so there, but since MR, Andrew and several of us are mentioned in that thread I don't think replying here is too far out of line.

The post that really sent my feelings about the thread beyond disgust and into direct insult was the one about Andrew allowing some of us to help him get the feature on line. Supposedly it was unprofessional of Andrew to do so because we aren't paid employees. Of course the underlying jealousy behind the complaint came out in the comment about him allowing some people to see it before it was Officially allowed to be published.

I transcribed the interviews. No one else on earth besides Andrew and I knew I'd heard them or typed them until Andrew had the class and consideration to thank me on here AFTER they were published. I had no conversation with anyone, including Dean or even my best friend Perryfaithful about them before they were released on this site. I typed everything word for word as it was spoken by Andrew and the band members. Nothing was altered in any way. The interviews that Andrew posted on here after they were proofread by Dean and TNC were comprised of those exact words. The format was all that was changed from the originals. There was no editing of anything that was said "On The Record".

Some comments were made in that thread to the effect that maybe some things should have been edited out for the sake of diplomacy. What do you want, the truth as the band sees it or a fantasy of your design? I can understand why, as fans of Augeri, that you wouldn't like some of the things that were said, but would you really rather Andrew edit them out to preserve your illusions? On the one hand he's accused of writing a fluff piece as a promotional tool for Jeff, and on the other he's accused of allowing too much that was offensive to Augeri to be said. What is it, too fluffy or too heavy hitting? He did his job plain and simple, and a damned good job of it.

As for the ethics of Andrew's enlisting help from us, there was a reason why I transcribed them. Andrew was hoping to be able to get these interviews up during the week after they were done. He had to go to the UK for another tour and wouldn't have been able to get them up without help. I offered and he allowed me the privilege of helping him out with them. He was sending them to me from airports and airplanes on his way to the UK so that we could get them to the fans in a timely manner. I didn't ask for or expect payment, and neither Dean nor TNC, anymore than the mods at BT do.

If Andrew had been allowed to post these interviews when he expected to I feel confident that they would have been received from a slightly different perspective than they were after the wait. Too much time, speculation and angst over the obvious outcome for Augeri occurred during the month that Augeri was holding up the official announcement. The interviews lost some of their intent and impact over that time. They were received with anger and bitterness on the parts of a lot of Augeri fans, not because of the actual content of the interviews, but because they were primed and ready to fire before they ever read them.

I've been in the position those people are in now, and it's not fun. They crossed the line though by accusing Andrew, Dean and myself of some sort of unethical conspiracy to make Jeff and MR look better than Augeri and BT(yeah, that was acctually implied :roll:) is just absurd.
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Postby amaron » Fri Dec 29, 2006 1:41 am

While I understand what you're saying, I feel a little disheartened that there was some sort of secret club who got access to these interviews while the rest of the board was chomping at the bit for them.
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Postby lights1961 » Fri Dec 29, 2006 1:51 am

amaron wrote:While I understand what you're saying, I feel a little disheartened that there was some sort of secret club who got access to these interviews while the rest of the board was chomping at the bit for them.


well, i think its safe to say that, some people can keep a secret a secret... and others just cant... which in journalism 101 when a huge story is developing...its all about who you can trust!! and I say Ohsherri did a hell of a job in keeping that trust....!! There was no leaks of any kind. bravo!!


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Postby The_Noble_Cause » Fri Dec 29, 2006 1:52 am

Not a mistake, just a complete mis-allocation of your energy.
Mostly everyone in the band (except for dandy boy, Jonathan) thinks SA to be something of a "primadonna" and was glad to see him railroaded.
The interviews did NOTHING to allay BTers that this was the case.
Here, they thought the band had his back.

Now the bovine BT wilderbeasts are in emotional freefall.
A maelstrom of betrayal, anger, sadness, and though not directly related to SA's firing, hunger, is whirling inside them.

They don't know which way is up anymore (certain to throw them off their game at pie eating competitions and the hallowed nightly BT ritual of bobbing for lamb shanks).
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Postby ohsherrie » Fri Dec 29, 2006 1:56 am

amaron wrote:While I understand what you're saying, I feel a little disheartened that there was some sort of secret club who got access to these interviews while the rest of the board was chomping at the bit for them.



It wasn't a secret club Amaron. I had no idea that Dean and TNC were involved until it was said on this board. I offered on this board to transcribe them and Andrew responded on this board. The only secrecy involved was between Andrew and I after I transcribed them in keeping the info private until it was officially released. I chose not to tell anyone I was doing it for the two or three days that it took me to get them typed.
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Postby amaron » Fri Dec 29, 2006 1:57 am

ohsherrie wrote:
amaron wrote:While I understand what you're saying, I feel a little disheartened that there was some sort of secret club who got access to these interviews while the rest of the board was chomping at the bit for them.



It wasn't a secret club Amaron. I had no idea that Dean and TNC were involved until it was said on this board. I offered on this board to transcribe them and Andrew responded on this board. The only secrecy involved was between Andrew and I after I transcribed them in keeping the info private until it was officially released. I chose not to tell anyone I was doing it for the two or three days that it took me to get them typed.


It's cool... not like I'm upset about it or anything. :P
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Postby KCfla » Fri Dec 29, 2006 1:57 am

I too read that thread over there. I can't believe the nerve of some people..... :roll:

Like we all over here have a little "clique" that gets special treatment- PLUUESSSE! None of us- save those who helped Andrew out were privy to any of those interviews prior to them being posted. I'm here almost every day- and had no idea who was involved. And quite frankly- I don't care! That was between Andrew and those involved.

The problem is the same one that's in all the threads. There are just some people that can not work through the change of singers. They're looking for "conspiricy theories" -Hell- I'll sell them a "grassy knoll" if that helps :wink:

Disecting the interviews, trying to see what's not there. Jealousy that Andrew gets the interviews, instead of the main site. Sorry about that people- perhaps they should change the forum's background color to Green. Or better yet- complain to the people that run THAT site. For a band's "official" site, it doesn't keep the "fans" informed very well at all.

Anywho- don't take to heart what's being said. There's alot of "absurd" going on over there right now. Like Mom always said- "Concider the source" 8)
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Postby ohsherrie » Fri Dec 29, 2006 1:58 am

Thanks Lights. :)
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Postby jrnychick » Fri Dec 29, 2006 2:00 am

OhSherrie (sorry, I don't know your real name :) ):
I posted a response in the thread at BT attempting to explain what the roles of proofreaders, editors, and transcribers are. I tried to explain that I don't think Andrew would have allowed for people to change the content of his piece. Anyone in publishing knows the importance of confidentiality during the process. I'm sure Andrew made it clear that none of the information was to be shared with others, and he wouldn't have asked the people he asked if he was concerned about it. I appreciate the fact that you kept all information to yourself. No matter who helped with proofreading or transcribing, only Andrew had the final say about what information would appear in the piece, and how it was presented.

I don't view this as a "secret club" thing at all. Maybe I don't have a problem with it because I deal with it all the time. I have good friends who work (also as freelancers) for education publishers, and when we get together we all know we can't discuss projects each of us is currently working on. It's no big deal.
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Postby The_Noble_Cause » Fri Dec 29, 2006 2:05 am

ohsherrie wrote:It wasn't a secret club Amaron. I had no idea that Dean and TNC were involved until it was said on this board.


I had no idea Dean was onboard until we giddily IMed each other seconds after Andrew first clandestinely tapped us to proofread.
Such are the privelidges which come attached to being Andrew McNeice's official biographer and head archivist of the McNeice estate.

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Postby Abitaman » Fri Dec 29, 2006 2:08 am

[quote="The_Noble_Cause"]
Mostly everyone in the band (except for dandy boy, Jonathan) thinks SA to be something of a "primadonna" and was glad to see him railroaded.
quote]

Where do you get this info?-ERIC
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Postby ohsherrie » Fri Dec 29, 2006 2:08 am

Thanks jrnychick. We all went about it professionally because we respect Andrew and the work that he does.
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Postby Red13JoePa » Fri Dec 29, 2006 2:12 am

The_Noble_Cause wrote:
ohsherrie wrote: Next time u feel the urge to drop a grumper

http://forums.melodicrock.com/phpBB/vie ... hp?t=21827


Tee HEEEEE!!!!!!!!! Love it. :lol: :)
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Postby knox » Fri Dec 29, 2006 2:14 am

You can read my replies to see where I stand on all of that :D .
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Postby lights1961 » Fri Dec 29, 2006 2:16 am

ohsherrie wrote:Thanks Lights. :)


your welcome!!
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Postby The_Noble_Cause » Fri Dec 29, 2006 2:16 am

Abitaman wrote:Where do you get this info?-ERIC


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Postby ohsherrie » Fri Dec 29, 2006 2:28 am

knox wrote:You can read my replies to see where I stand on all of that :D .


I did read your replies Knox. :) You, Carlitto and Sallee are doing a great job over there. Lula tried but they came after her for other reasons. It's may be a good thing I can't post there because I probably wouldn't handle it as well. :wink:
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Postby Liz22562 » Fri Dec 29, 2006 2:43 am

I think this is one of those situations that you really need to place yourself in the part of third person looking in and/or devils advocate.

There were several extremely intense, emotional months through the summer that pitted this board against another (unfortunately). If you can't conceive why, go back through the archives and read through the multitude of threads full of accusations, threats and pure anger. If you don't think that those on the other board (and maybe a few here ??) are NOT going to take exception with Andrew that he used one or more of the catalysts of this situation to proofread, review (or whatever he used them for) his interviews with Journey, than in all sincerity (and no offense to anyone) I'm somewhat surprised.

Personally, I don't care who uses whom for what....but it most definitely does not take a rocket scientist to understand the upheaval and anger that is now being displayed. Most definitely you should not "shoot the messenger (i.e. Andrew), but I'm sure he could have asked other people not closely tied to the band and/or subject, CONSIDERING what happened earlier in the year.

Just my 2 cents - fire away.

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Postby nolippin » Fri Dec 29, 2006 3:14 am

I agree. IMO, it just wasn't a good judgment call on Andrew's part to allow anyone to see the interviews beforehand for any reason given the volitility of the whole situation.

As has been pointed out, people volunteered their assistance...here on a public board and Andrew responded...here on a public board. The penchant some here have for insinuating that they know things others do not...whether they do or not...just makes for a distrustful situation.

My guess would be that Andrew's hindsight would tell him to play things closer to his vest in the future.



Liz22562 wrote:I think this is one of those situations that you really need to place yourself in the part of third person looking in and/or devils advocate.

There were several extremely intense, emotional months through the summer that pitted this board against another (unfortunately). If you can't conceive why, go back through the archives and read through the multitude of threads full of accusations, threats and pure anger. If you don't think that those on the other board (and maybe a few here ??) are NOT going to take exception with Andrew that he used one or more of the catalysts of this situation to proofread, review (or whatever he used them for) his interviews with Journey, than in all sincerity (and no offense to anyone) I'm somewhat surprised.

Personally, I don't care who uses whom for what....but it most definitely does not take a rocket scientist to understand the upheaval and anger that is now being displayed. Most definitely you should not "shoot the messenger (i.e. Andrew), but I'm sure he could have asked other people not closely tied to the band and/or subject, CONSIDERING what happened earlier in the year.

Just my 2 cents - fire away.

Peace always~
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Postby Lula » Fri Dec 29, 2006 3:23 am

ohsherrie wrote:
I did read your replies Knox. :) You, Carlitto and Sallee are doing a great job over there. Lula tried but they came after her for other reasons. It's may be a good thing I can't post there because I probably wouldn't handle it as well. :wink:


I get so tired of BT bashing Andrew because they don't like the message. I guess my persoanl life is open for discussion now, what a crock of shit. Funny thing, when I defended myself and addressed accusations in a thread I started it was deleted, go figure :roll:

Nonetheless, great job transcribing, ohsherrie!
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Postby tammy » Fri Dec 29, 2006 3:42 am

I have read the threads at BT & even 'tho I don't agree with all the conspiracy theories & blasting poor Deen C. for speaking honestly & misconstruing his words...I can kinda see where a lot of these fans are coming from. They remember when Ross & JSS went to a private party where Dean was a few months ago & now Dean is the proofreader of the interviews!? It does make it seem odd to even outsiders. I do wonder why TNC & Dean were chosen...what are their credentials? Just curious. Also, curious as to why Andrew let that info of who was proofreading be known to the BT'ers...it was bound to incite their fury. (I'm married to a technical writer/editor who deals in sensitive info, so I'm coming from that point of view.)
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Postby ohsherrie » Fri Dec 29, 2006 3:44 am

Liz22562 wrote:I think this is one of those situations that you really need to place yourself in the part of third person looking in and/or devils advocate.

There were several extremely intense, emotional months through the summer that pitted this board against another (unfortunately). If you can't conceive why, go back through the archives and read through the multitude of threads full of accusations, threats and pure anger. If you don't think that those on the other board (and maybe a few here ??) are NOT going to take exception with Andrew that he used one or more of the catalysts of this situation to proofread, review (or whatever he used them for) his interviews with Journey, than in all sincerity (and no offense to anyone) I'm somewhat surprised.

Personally, I don't care who uses whom for what....but it most definitely does not take a rocket scientist to understand the upheaval and anger that is now being displayed. Most definitely you should not "shoot the messenger (i.e. Andrew), but I'm sure he could have asked other people not closely tied to the band and/or subject, CONSIDERING what happened earlier in the year.

Just my 2 cents - fire away.

Peace always~



I have no problem with your post Liz. I see your point of view and understand it. I even understand the resentment that the people on the other board feel. I just took exception to the implications and accusations of dishonesty and manipulation on Andrew's part.

If Andrew were to misrepresent anything the band said it would completely destroy their trust in him. If Dean, TNC or I were to misrepresent anything that was said in the interviews it would destroy Andrew's integrity in his chosen profession. None of us would do that to him.

No "inside information" has been even hinted at that came from these interviews. Any other inside information that anyone may have has come from other sources.

If he'd foreseen this backlash from a decision he made in good faith among people he knew he could trust, he may have done it differently.
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Postby larryfromnextdoor » Fri Dec 29, 2006 3:51 am

this is stupid , just so stupid,, andrew let a few folks help him that volunteered , and they are long time posters that have known him for a long time, theres the credentials.. but that wasnt needed anyway,, his site,, ive always felt sorry for "those"people because the band doesnt want them ,, now i see that some are just mean spirited lunatics... its a rock band for crying out loud..
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Postby conversationpc » Fri Dec 29, 2006 3:55 am

Liz22562 wrote:I think this is one of those situations that you really need to place yourself in the part of third person looking in and/or devils advocate.

There were several extremely intense, emotional months through the summer that pitted this board against another (unfortunately). If you can't conceive why, go back through the archives and read through the multitude of threads full of accusations, threats and pure anger. If you don't think that those on the other board (and maybe a few here ??) are NOT going to take exception with Andrew that he used one or more of the catalysts of this situation to proofread, review (or whatever he used them for) his interviews with Journey, than in all sincerity (and no offense to anyone) I'm somewhat surprised.

Personally, I don't care who uses whom for what....but it most definitely does not take a rocket scientist to understand the upheaval and anger that is now being displayed. Most definitely you should not "shoot the messenger (i.e. Andrew), but I'm sure he could have asked other people not closely tied to the band and/or subject, CONSIDERING what happened earlier in the year.

Just my 2 cents - fire away.

Peace always~


I have to agree. I don't have any personal grudges against either TNC or Deano, but I don't think it was the wisest choice to ask either one of them to proofread the interview considering their vitriol against Augeri. I'm not saying they didn't do a good job or altered the interview in any way. I'm sure the interviews represented here on MR are accurate. However, it probably would've been a better idea to have a more neutral party do the job, if for nothing more than to easily smack down any attempts from some parties at claiming that Andrew has a bias.

As for ohsherrie transcribing the interview? Who cares? Her and I have our political differences but she is a fair individual as far as Journey is concerned, in my opinion.
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Postby pdsidd » Fri Dec 29, 2006 3:58 am

The_Noble_Cause wrote:Not a mistake, just a complete mis-allocation of your energy.
Mostly everyone in the band (except for dandy boy, Jonathan) thinks SA to be something of a "primadonna" and was glad to see him railroaded.
The interviews did NOTHING to allay BTers that this was the case.
Here, they thought the band had his back.

Now the bovine BT wilderbeasts are in emotional freefall.
A maelstrom of betrayal, anger, sadness, and though not directly related to SA's firing, hunger, is whirling inside them.

They don't know which way is up anymore (certain to throw them off their game at pie eating competitions and the hallowed nightly BT ritual of bobbing for lamb shanks).


Are you referring to the live in LA 06 Interviews? - I didn't see SA being referred to as a Prima Donna or anyone glad to see him railroaded? Which part did you pick that up from exactly???
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Postby ohsherrie » Fri Dec 29, 2006 4:01 am

silverblue wrote:I have read the threads at BT & even 'tho I don't agree with all the conspiracy theories & blasting poor Deen C. for speaking honestly & misconstruing his words...I can kinda see where a lot of these fans are coming from. They remember when Ross & JSS went to a private party where Dean was a few months ago & now Dean is the proofreader of the interviews!? It does make it seem odd to even outsiders. I do wonder why TNC & Dean were chosen...what are their credentials? Just curious. Also, curious as to why Andrew let that info of who was proofreading be known to the BT'ers...it was bound to incite their fury. (I'm married to a technical writer/editor who deals in sensitive info, so I'm coming from that point of view.)


I can't answer for Andrew, but I think the fact that he didn't keep it a secret that he asked for help speaks for his honesty.

I would think that having Dean friendly with the band members would give him more credibility where these interviews are concerned rather than less. Why would he endanger a friendly relationship with band members that obviously means the world to him by altering or otherwise misusing the interviews?

I understand the resentment, but I don't understand what it has to do with what was said by the band in the interviews. None of us made it up. The band said what they said. It's no one at MR's fault that not all the fans liked what they read. The fact that MR posters who aren't very popular on BT helped with the grunt work on the interviews has nothing to do with the content.

I know the emotions they're feeling don't leave a lot of room for logic, but it's disheartening to read some of the things that are being said. :(
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Postby ohsherrie » Fri Dec 29, 2006 4:04 am

conversationpc wrote:
As for ohsherrie transcribing the interview? Who cares? Her and I have our political differences but she is a fair individual as far as Journey is concerned, in my opinion.


Thanks, I think you're a pretty upstanding, honest guy for a Republican. :wink: :D
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Postby Wheels Of Fyre » Fri Dec 29, 2006 4:06 am

LarryFromNextDoor wrote:this is stupid , just so stupid,, andrew let a few folks help him that volunteered , and they are long time posters that have known him for a long time, theres the credentials.. but that wasnt needed anyway,, his site,, ive always felt sorry for "those"people because the band doesnt want them ,, now i see that some are just mean spirited lunatics... its a rock band for crying out loud..


All true.

Maybe Andrew could've considered the polarity between BT and MR. He previously expressed a desire for the two sites to be friendly. Maybe he could've pursued some volunteers from BT? I think I'm pretty much considered a BTer (despite the fact that I don't consider myself in either camp) and had suggested to Andrew to please seek some proofreading help as I find his past interviews difficult and less than professional as they contain lots of typos, etc. Of course he was pissed at me for saying that and others slapped at me, too. I would've been more than happy to help. I'm sure other BTers would've, too.

Be that as it may. The way things have developed is that the "Secret Club" at MR played everybody. That may or may not be a fair perception but I can't blame someone for seeing it that way.
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Postby knox » Fri Dec 29, 2006 4:13 am

I couldn't care less who did what - whether it was CJ or Deano. I am just glad they finally got out (even though they didn't address Tapegate :evil: ).
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Postby conversationpc » Fri Dec 29, 2006 4:16 am

knox wrote:I couldn't care less who did what - whether it was CJ or Deano. I am just glad they finally got out (even though they didn't address Tapegate :evil: ).


Yeah, so much for the band releasing a statement about that, especially when we were being told that they would do so (this was back towards the end of June). I figured at the time that they would never do such a thing and, unfortunately, I was right. :shock:
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