OT: SADDAM IS DEAD

[Barb]

What I'm hoping is "next" is this: Cheney resigns either due to health reasons or his flaming incompetence; Bush is impeached; and Nancy Pelosi is our next President.

How can you all be pleased at even one more death in that Godforsaken country? There is nothing but bad mojo surrounding any news coming out of there... We need to leave...

Yay! Then we can be like France!

[fredinator]

Sorry, Barb, but I don't get that? Did you mean Germany with their woman president?

[Barb]

Sorry, Barb, but I don't get that? Did you mean Germany with their woman president?

No. I meant with the hippy lady as president, we would be surrender monkeys like France. I hate Hillary Clinton, but I'd vote for her over Pelosi in a heart beat.

[knox]

I don't know much about politics, but correct me if I am wrong...

Isn't this whole thing about oil? I heard the real reason we are over there is to protect the oil reserves from whoever the bad guys are.

If we were to just leave and "the bad guys" took power, then they would control a large amount of the oil that we import and basically have the U.S. "over a barrel".

Is there any truth to this? Are there major oil wells in Iraq, or near Iraq that they would control if we just left?

[conversationpc]

I don't know much about politics, but correct me if I am wrong...

Isn't this whole thing about oil? I heard the real reason we are over there is to protect the oil reserves from whoever the bad guys are.

If we were to just leave and "the bad guys" took power, then they would control a large amount of the oil that we import and basically have the U.S. "over a barrel".

Is there any truth to this? Are there major oil wells in Iraq, or near Iraq that they would control if we just left?

Yes, Iraq has large oil reserves. They aren't up there with Saudi Arabia but they are listed as 14th in the world in 2004. I think it's worth being very concerned that Iran, who are the world's 4th largest oil producers, could possibly take over Iraq if the Iraqi government doesn't get their act together which would, in effect, create a power vacuum there. Iran would be only too happy to take over some additional oil reserves.

[larryfromnextdoor]

I don't know much about politics, but correct me if I am wrong...

Isn't this whole thing about oil? I heard the real reason we are over there is to protect the oil reserves from whoever the bad guys are.

If we were to just leave and "the bad guys" took power, then they would control a large amount of the oil that we import and basically have the U.S. "over a barrel".

Is there any truth to this? Are there major oil wells in Iraq, or near Iraq that they would control if we just left?

i dont know much about politics either , AND dont want to , ,i do absolutley know that the U.S. gets most of its oil from Venezuela..(coffee too i think) of course they hate us right now (condi),, some say that the war was based on gaining the oil , rather than terrorism,, no bombs and no bin laden in iraq.. haliburton sure has their hands in it,, ...it gets complicated beyond my education real quick..

[knox]

Heck, I am so undeducated I just say "bad guys" because I don't know who all are against us and who are with us.

Granted, if I had a friend or family member I would pay more attention, but it gets so confusing hearing different opinions and "facts" from opposing parties, news stations, people I know, etc...

So, I try to not get to muddled down with it. I support my country and my American troops. That is about all I know to do.

I understand wanting to be diplomatic and all of that. And that this is more about small fighting regimes and terrorists rather than a whole country. But it seems we are fighting with one hand tied behind our back, much like Vietnam. There are people over there who support us that we DON'T want to kill, while trying to ferret out the ones we DO want to kill.

In the old days, we just wiped out the whole freakin country. This surgical fighting is not all it is cracked up to be.

[larryfromnextdoor]

Heck, I am so undeducated I just say "bad guys" because I don't know who all are against us and who are with us.

Granted, if I had a friend or family member I would pay more attention, but it gets so confusing hearing different opinions and "facts" from opposing parties, news stations, people I know, etc...

So, I try to not get to muddled down with it. I support my country and my American troops. That is about all I know to do.

I understand wanting to be diplomatic and all of that. And that this is more about small fighting regimes and terrorists rather than a whole country. But it seems we are fighting with one hand tied behind our back, much like Vietnam. There are people over there who support us that we DON'T want to kill, while trying to ferret out the ones we DO want to kill.

In the old days, we just wiped out the whole freakin country. This surgical fighting is not all it is cracked up to be.

and there doesnt seem to be a way to train for this type of fighting ,, it seems to be so subjectional... no way for the troops to win or succeed,, maybe the big picture to settle it..

[Carrington]

In the old days, we just wiped out the whole freakin country. This surgical fighting is not all it is cracked up to be.

Your absolutly right, when you kill a bunch at a time it makes a bigger impact and hastens the end of fighting rather than prolonging it....more dead terroists=less to fight, and, less WILL to fight.....ask the Japanese and Germans about that, problem is, you also kill alot of civilians too.......

[Mike The Conqueror]

What I'm hoping is "next" is this: Cheney resigns either due to health reasons or his flaming incompetence; Bush is impeached; and Nancy Pelosi is our next President.

How can you all be pleased at even one more death in that Godforsaken country? There is nothing but bad mojo surrounding any news coming out of there... We need to leave...

Sadam got better than he deserved...
Praise GOD for Bush, Cheney, & Rumsfeld for their conviction to do whats right. With hope Iran, Serria, N. Korea will take note and change their ways before we change it for them. You won't see that kind of courage from any weak kneed "demoralcrat" like Pelosi.

My first hope is they have the sense to not release any video or pictures, and only release eye witness acounts as that will deny the liberal left media of US & the Arab world the fodder to promote more violence.

GOD bless the people of Irac...justice is done.

[Saint John]

The world is now rid of a vicious tyrant. The U.S. has played the major role in bringing some comfort to the families of the 2 fucking million people he killed. THAT is a good thing. While we DO know how many of our troops have been killed and injured we DON'T know how many lives would've been lost had we NOT gone. The central front was moved to Iraq. Terrorists are pouring over the Iraqi border to fight our well trained troops rather than OUR borders to kill civilians. Also, Iraq has pretty substantial oil reserves. If Iran were to ever take them over, and it would be easy, we'd be forced into a situation where oil prices could be dictated by that mad fucker in Iran. THAT is something that could seriously affect, if not bring our economy to its knees. While the war has not been pretty, I think history will show that it WAS necessary. It also shows that being our enemy is probably worse than being our ally. Hell, Clinton did nothing to piss anyone off in his 8 years, yet Al Qaeda was still plotting September 11th while HE was in office. Extremists hate us regardless of our treatment toward them. We are hated no more now than when Clinton was in office. Now, we just know who our enemies actually are.

[fredinator]

Your spelling is so atrocious it's hard to take you seriously! Dang, what happened??

[Saint John]

Your spelling is so atrocious it's hard to take you seriously! Dang, what happened??

Me? Please use examples if you're going to play grammar police.

[fredinator]

Not you, touchy one. The one up above...

[Saint John]

Not you, touchy one. The one up above...

Gotcha. Point taken....and who the fuck is "Serria?"

[larryfromnextdoor]

Not you, touchy one. The one up above...

oh mike,, hes a dentist,, them dont spell good....

[fredinator]

**Sigh** Now I'm chuckling in the Saddam death thread...

[Mike The Conqueror]

Not you, touchy one. The one up above...

oh mike,, hes a dentist,, them dont spell good....

You should see my hand-writing.

[Blueskies]

Not doing this. There's no point.

yea, when its about politics and partys , then i just walk away,,

Well we are fortunate to be able to sit in our homes and invite intelligent debate, there is a word that is hurting our country right now and that word is "apathy."

right on, sister!.....get tired of people just sitting back and complaining......but never "doing" what needs to be done! Nothing will change until enough people get fed up and make change happen. I was born in 1960.....as a child I watched some changes happen because some people where tired of being apathetic and saw a need for change.......which grew and lead to a movement. Look at history.....imagine the shape we would be in if not for visionary people who believed that they could and should bring about change where they saw a problem......they would not let anyone or anything stop them.......even when they knew it could end their own life...........(MLK being a perfect example)..........oh and I'm not saying the babyboomers were all rightous and fighting for the betterment of all in the 60's and 70's either.......most where just trying to save their own hide from Vietnam....others were just getting stoned.....the same self indulgent, self absorbed people who then went into the "me" decade of the 80's......and that has not really changed from then.....the 90's....2000...on.........it's too much "me, me, me" and not enough "we"!......guess we have to wait for a special few or even that one person with a vision on how to begin to affect the changes that are needed now.........as for the rest of us?.....if you want to just sit around in your new gas guzzlers...or your big house full of all the latest gadgets.....propped in front of the bigscreen....watching the news....remote in hand.......saying " damn, that sucks....someone needs to do something about that".......then switching the channel because you really don't want to think about it.....or do something about it...or use the excuse " what can I do? I'm just one person"........remember things always start with one. We are all responsible....choose to do.....or remain apathetic and sit back and do nothing....you put nothing into something you get nothing back.......or whatever someone else chooses for you! Griping and moaning about a problem does nothing to help figure it out , take some action, and solve it!....The bigger the problem the more it takes....everyone on this planet has a shared responsibility in it..........JMO'S!

[Rockindeano]

I am glad they killed that asshole. I ll be glad when can get rid of the other one.{not the same way} of course.

Nice.

I remember you dude...you were the bggest pussy alive. Nice comeback.

Where is that fag, "Romantic Guy?" That dude has serious issues.

[Wheels Of Fyre]

They should've killed that bastard in the hole they found him hiding in.

That would've been immoral as well as cheated the Iraqi's out of doing it for themselves which is EXACTLY what they did. It was an IRAQI execution per THEIR laws and terms. America had NOTHING to do with it other than we handed him over to his own people.

There'll be a Sunni uprising now and more of our soldiers killed.

Of course. That's war.

Bush has gotten this country into a mess and doesn't have a clue how to get us out.

Exit strategy? There was never a need to have an exit strategy because once we went in it was a commitment to stay. Do we NOT have troops stationed all over the world? My Dad was stationed in Germany in the 60's - 20 years AFTER Hitler. What for? I know people NOW who are in Germany and it's been 60 years since Hitler! What. Is he really not dead like the Enquirer states? Is he going to spring back to power once we exit Germany?

Our military will NEVER leave Iraq. It's there to stay. Therefore, we're there to stay. The plan is that Iraq will convert to a democracy which is what the majority of them want. We're simply helping them. Once stabilized they will be an example to all remaining dictators and provide hope to those whom they oppress. Among other things, Iraq happened to be the most susceptible and willing to change. It was time.

The Middle East has always been a source of instability and fear. I remember as a kid in the early and late 70's - all of the talk about Iran and Ayatollah Khomeini. Americans FEARED the Middle East. I remember Orson Wells tried to follow up his radio panic War of the Worlds with a short documentary on Nostradamus. The finality of that was a quatrain from Nostradamus that was translated as the end of the world being initiated by a man in a turban from the Middle East. Plain and simple fear.

If people are surprised that we're there and don't have an apparent exit strategy then you haven't been paying attention to the last 30 years.

[Marc S]

Truth is, the US has done what it wants since WW2. Once kept in check by the Soviets/Warsaw pact during the phoney cold war until the Wall came down in '89, (when neither side really knew the capabilities of each other, regardless of all the surveillance technology) and throw in mutually assured distruction, the US has had to fight hypocritical backdoor wars propping up dodgy regimes for its own strategic/economic ends; from backing and arming Saddam in the early 80s, trying to oust the Sandinistas and having to withdraw from Vietnam after entering an extremely ill-thought out war (to name but a handful) most of these offensives have been undertaken to shore up US influence in those areas.

Iraq is about oil, make no mistake; each unfortunate US soldier killed is probably attributable to Bush (I & II), Cheney, Rumsfeld and all of the 'Haliburton' sub-companies (and shareholders) that make billions from these wars.

Whilst I, as a UK citizen would rather be allied to the US than any other world power, the US's interventionist foreign policy has made many enemies around the world over the last 40 years. Couple that with spiralling muslim fundamentalist extremism and you have a tinderbox that cannot be 'fought' conventionally. We have the same problem fermenting within the UK - the 7/7 bombings in London were carried out by UK-born islamic fundamentalists - would sending tanks and hummers and obliterating parts of Leeds and Bradford, from where they came, helped the problem? It might make some people feel better in the short term but it wouldn't change anything and would stoke the fire of these lunatics.

The other major factor is internet access to both US citizens and other countries around the world - it is possible to find all of the contributory information that led to 9/11 easily enough and much harder for the current administration to whitewash the world media as to the reasons for invading Iraq other than controlling its oil reserves. People know too much and are not stupid.

All of this 'lets kick ass' gung ho should be channelled into other more useful approaches - it hasn't worked, the only net result is trillions of wasted dollars, dead soldiers and grieving families who probably wonder what their children have died for? I can't imaging this would have happened under a Clinton government, he was too good at diplomacy. Its a shame the Bush establishment stole your election in 2000. A more measured response then may have resulted in a more tempered situation now.

Will Saddam being executed change much? Unfortunately not, Iraq will just remain in a permanent state of civil war. As a country that was set up by the west years ago it will never realise its economic potential. Whilst it is too hot and there are not enough minerals in the soil generally to grow decent food, most of the Middle East will remain gripped by fundamentalist lunatic hot heads. With a US-backed Israel stuck firmly in the midst of all this, how can peace in the area ever be acheived. Saddams death, whilst welcome, will change nothing. The other villains remain, pockets stuffed with dirty money, in the Whitehouse.

The people they endanger are you and I, flying on airliners on holiday around the world - we are the targets.

Sorry if this is somewhat heavy, but it makes a change from whether Augeri is better or worse than Perry....[/i]

[Wheels Of Fyre]

Iraq is about oil, make no mistake; each unfortunate US soldier killed is probably attributable to Bush (I & II), Cheney, Rumsfeld and all of the 'Haliburton' sub-companies (and shareholders) that make billions from these wars.

Of course it's about oil but I don't believe oil is the main factor in the overall equation and suggesting that it is is rather short sighted.

[NealIsGod]

This may NOT be a a good thing.

It's not a good thing and we are in a fucking mess.

This isn't a mess... TAPEGATE was a mess. Hoo, boy! Serious stuff!

[NealIsGod]

Sorry, Barb, but I don't get that? Did you mean Germany with their woman president?

No. I meant with the hippy lady as president, we would be surrender monkeys like France. I hate Hillary Clinton, but I'd vote for her over Pelosi in a heart beat.

Deano will owe me $50 when Hillary is not elected President in 2008. I haven't forgotten...

[Red13JoePa]

Say "Hello" to Blowjob Hacks, Hussein.

[NealIsGod]

Say "Hello" to Blowjob Hacks, Hussein.

[donnaplease]

Deano will owe me $50 when Hillary is not elected President in 2008. I haven't forgotten...

Hey, can I get in on that one...???

[The_Noble_Cause]

Saddam's condamnation is illegal: taken by a kangaroo court, under a foreign occupation of a sovreign nation that has NO legitimate grounds.
Might want to take some pumice soap to your hands and scrub just a little more aggressively today, fellow Americans.
We have blood on our hands.

The spilling of blood from a homicidal dictator is spilt blood all the same.

Enjoy your leftover eggnog.

[Angry_Bald_Conservative]

Saddam's condamnation is illegal: taken by a kangaroo court, under a foreign occupation of a sovreign nation that has NO legitimate grounds.
Might want to take some pumice soap to your hands and scrub just a little aggressively today, fellow Americans.
We have blood on our hands.
The spilling of blood from a homicidal dictator is spilt blood all the same.

Why do you hate America?


Live Free or Die Hard,

Jon Daniels the III