OT: SADDAM IS DEAD

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Postby Rockindeano » Sun Dec 31, 2006 7:16 am

Fact Finder wrote:
ALL of those 'quotes' from various democrat sources were based on useless CIA intelligence.



From the holdover of President Clintons C.I.A. Director George Tenent. Tenent supposedly told President Bush, "It's a slam dunk." Regarding WMD.

Powell sold it at the U.N. and walked away after that fact, at which point our Men and Women in Uniform were already in combat.

Mistakes are made in every war, this one's no different. Winning must be the only objective now. Otherwise the moderates in the Middle East will never trust our word again. Jordan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia and the Arab Emeriate States are counting on us to disuade Iran from becoming the dominate power over there. They are as afraid of Iran as we are but for differing reasons of course.

Some say that the fighting in Iraq has brought in insurgent fighters from around the Middle East to fight us. I say BRILLIANT. Now, if they would just come out and fight us the real mans way it' will be over in a heartbeat. Using IED's and booby traps is a sissys way to fight. Even the Iraqi's don't like it, as it is mostly innocent Iraqi's being killed in those car bombs at markets.


That is a good solid post.

If you are advocating a final war between the west and the towel headed camel jockeys, ok. Let's have it in that toilet, Iraq, and we increase our troop strength by 200,000, and bring in the tomahawks. It would be over in three days.
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Postby donnaplease » Sun Dec 31, 2006 7:17 am

Fact Finder wrote:
ALL of those 'quotes' from various democrat sources were based on useless CIA intelligence.



From the holdover of President Clintons C.I.A. Director George Tenent. Tenent supposedly told President Bush, "It's a slam dunk." Regarding WMD.

Powell sold it at the U.N. and walked away after that fact, at which point our Men and Women in Uniform were already in combat.

Mistakes are made in every war, this one's no different. Winning must be the only objective now. Otherwise the moderates in the Middle East will never trust our word again. Jordan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia and the Arab Emeriate States are counting on us to disuade Iran from becoming the dominate power over there. They are as afraid of Iran as we are but for differing reasons of course.

Some say that the fighting in Iraq has brought in insurgent fighters from around the Middle East to fight us. I say BRILLIANT. Now, if they would just come out and fight us the real mans way it' will be over in a heartbeat. Using IED's and booby traps is a sissys way to fight. Even the Iraqi's don't like it, as it is mostly innocent Iraqi's being killed in those car bombs at markets.
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I thought you said "moderators" at first...damn, I've been hanging out on these message boards too much... :oops:
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Postby conversationpc » Sun Dec 31, 2006 7:18 am

RockinDeano wrote:
Fact Finder wrote:
ALL of those 'quotes' from various democrat sources were based on useless CIA intelligence.



From the holdover of President Clintons C.I.A. Director George Tenent. Tenent supposedly told President Bush, "It's a slam dunk." Regarding WMD.

Powell sold it at the U.N. and walked away after that fact, at which point our Men and Women in Uniform were already in combat.

Mistakes are made in every war, this one's no different. Winning must be the only objective now. Otherwise the moderates in the Middle East will never trust our word again. Jordan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia and the Arab Emeriate States are counting on us to disuade Iran from becoming the dominate power over there. They are as afraid of Iran as we are but for differing reasons of course.

Some say that the fighting in Iraq has brought in insurgent fighters from around the Middle East to fight us. I say BRILLIANT. Now, if they would just come out and fight us the real mans way it' will be over in a heartbeat. Using IED's and booby traps is a sissys way to fight. Even the Iraqi's don't like it, as it is mostly innocent Iraqi's being killed in those car bombs at markets.


That is a good solid post.

If you are advocating a final war between the west and the towel headed camel jockeys, ok. Let's have it in that toilet, Iraq, and we increase our troop strength by 200,000, and bring in the tomahawks. It would be over in three days.


That I can agree with.
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Postby Marc S » Sun Dec 31, 2006 7:25 am

But that's the whole point - you are not going to get a 'real man's war' (for fucks sake listen to yourself).

A guerilla war with dirty tactics should have been obvious to any Whitehouse incumbent. The Mujahidin saw off the 'might' of thousands of Soviet troops and hardware in'79 and this is no different, apart from a few more toys.

And you talk complete BULLSHIT when you try to say car bombs etc just kill women and children and are the cowards way. How many innocent women and children have been roasted and blown to bits from supposed US 'smart' weapons, and how arrogant for the twat Bush to call his campaign 'Shock and Awe'. Do you realise how stupid it makes the US look to the rest of Europe and why, apart from the poodle Blair, no-one would commit?

Its not a fucking video game.
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Postby conversationpc » Sun Dec 31, 2006 7:27 am

Marc S wrote:And you talk complete BULLSHIT when you try to say car bombs etc just kill women and children and are the cowards way. How many innocent women and children have been roasted and blown to bits from supposed US 'smart' weapons...


The BIG difference is that the terrorists PURPOSELY target innocent civilians. They don't care if innocents are killed. We do.
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Postby Rockindeano » Sun Dec 31, 2006 7:29 am

Fact Finder wrote:Well, there's a book that talks about a final war between the West and the Towel Headed Camel Jockies. If possible I'd like it wait at least another 100 years or so, so my children and myself don't have to see it.


You know, as I typed that out, I was thinking the same thing...a lump in my throat appeared.
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Postby Marc S » Sun Dec 31, 2006 7:30 am

CRAP! Your military planners don't give a flying fuck how many innocents are taken out - its impossible to stage such offensives and not take out civilians, and most of the UK casualties in Afganistan have been 'friendly fire'.

Go put 'Fallujah' in to Google images and see what comes back.
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Postby Marc S » Sun Dec 31, 2006 7:31 am

I have 3 and a half year old twin girls - don't you think I feel the same?
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Postby Marc S » Sun Dec 31, 2006 7:42 am

Listen, don't lecture us on what works and what doesn't - you've never had bombs dropped on American cities, SOME of you live very safe, homogenised sheltered lives over there and some think europe is a far off place where they world is flat. Unfortunately we get the feeling Bush thinks that way.

I hate muslim fundamentalist extremists as much as the next civilised person. Fuck them and horse they rode in on. But carpet bombing swathes of them into submission will never work.

I suppose George Galloway, the Paris Riots and The East End are something you read in the National Enquirer?

Galloway is a maverick who just happens to hit a nerve. And it made me LOL when he wiped the floor with those senators. Very amusing indeed.

Paris Riots - that goes back through France's colonial history, fuck all to do with appeasing muslims - go do some reading 'dude'

You think, because we disagree with the war we don't want to get rid of the stirring towel heads we have over here, who go out of their way to be offended?
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Postby Rockindeano » Sun Dec 31, 2006 7:45 am

We all agree!

Marc, Fact Finder and I all HATE those Camel Jockey, Carpet Pilot sons of bitches.
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Postby Marc S » Sun Dec 31, 2006 7:49 am

Then yes, Deano, we agree on that
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Postby Rockindeano » Sun Dec 31, 2006 7:55 am

Marc S wrote:Then yes, Deano, we agree on that


Dude, you are the first Euro I actually like. Please tell me, you do brush your teeth right?
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Postby Marc S » Sun Dec 31, 2006 8:00 am

deodorise and moisturise every single day!

oh, and drive a rep with an old chev 351, just to endear myself further
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Postby Marc S » Sun Dec 31, 2006 8:12 am

Fact Finder wrote:I ask you Marc, how would you tame the radical Muslim beast? They have declared that they want England under Sharia Law. They have declared war on the West not vice versa. They have blown up numerous American and British interest over the last 30 years and 9/11/2001 was for them the proverbial straw that broke the goat humpers camels backs.


Its a completely cultural thing - we should never have let them integrate in the first place hundreds of years ago, the Crusaders should have left things well alone, maybe build a huge wall and let them have the Middle East and its hot weather and crap soil. We (the West) and them are just not compatible.

The damage is done - the West has done its best over hundreds of years to take control of the Middle East, all to no avail and that won't change. Bombing them in a conventional way will have no effect, certainly not in the way Dubya wants to do it. It will make things worse, that much is obvious. I can't see this ending amicably, The West won't be able to keep a lid on nuclear weapons and when one of those fanatical idiots gets one (Iran, very soon) its all over.
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Postby ohsherrie » Sun Dec 31, 2006 8:13 am

donnaplease wrote:
We don't ALL think that way...but my father fought in WWII, my husband was in the Navy during the first Gulf War, his father fought in Vietnam, and both of his grandfathers were in the military, so we do feel an allegiance to the people that do step into the uniform every day, who do so willingly knowing that they could be called into action at any time.



Donnaplease, I hope you didn't take personal offense at what I said, I certainly didn't mean it that way.

I don't know of anyone on this board who doesn't honor the courage and commitment of the soldiers who put their lives on the line for us. My father was also in WW II. My uncle in Korea. A family member and a friend were both killed in Viet Nam. Two nephews and two nieces have fought in Afghanistan and Iraq.

I would just like to feel that they are sent to fight and possibly die for a cause that that was presented truthfully.

I hate the war in Iraq because it was begun based on a lie. I supported the war in Afghanistan because it was for a just cause. I honor and support the soldiers no matter where they are.

There was a discussion on the CBS Saturday Early Show this morning about whether or not a country like Iraq could realistically be ruled by anything other than a ruthless dictator. It was suggested that, given the totally irrational nature of the religious zealots that appear to have the most influence over the majority of the people, there may be no hope for democracy.

Even if we had the right to try to impose our form of government(like it's worked so well for us in the last two elections :roll:) on another country, that doesn't mean it can work for all cultures.
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Postby Barb » Sun Dec 31, 2006 8:15 am

RockinDeano wrote:Let me clarify.

might want to tell him the situation in Darfur is three times worse.



Yeah, and it's Muslims killing Muslims over there too. By the way, are there any other countries that might be available to step up and help out, or is it just the US that can help these people? What about the UN? What is the UN doing for those suffering in Darfur? Anything?
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Postby Marc S » Sun Dec 31, 2006 8:20 am

Marc S wrote:
Fact Finder wrote:I ask you Marc, how would you tame the radical Muslim beast? They have declared that they want England under Sharia Law. They have declared war on the West not vice versa. They have blown up numerous American and British interest over the last 30 years and 9/11/2001 was for them the proverbial straw that broke the goat humpers camels backs.


I kind of agree in that he is comparing the southern preachers' tunnel vision view of the world and how we should praise the lord and give them all of our money etc to the Muslim Extremists.

They have always been around, but have recently woken up and gotten their teeth into US foreign policy, right or wrong.

By the way I'm about an hours drive from Stratford

Do you get 2D TV in the US?
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Postby Behshad » Sun Dec 31, 2006 8:39 am

Saddam's death is just gonna add to the violence and we all know it.

To me it was wrong to change directions back in 2001. We shouldve finnished our job in Afghanistan to find the real threat to the world, bin laden.
Saddam was not a threat to us in any way ever since the Gulf War. Sure he killed 20,000 Iraqis a year , but ever since 2003 when he was removed almost 700,000 Iraqis have been killed, this time by another mad man who also risks the lives of our nation mainly because of Oil and to get even with those who messed with his daddy.
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Postby junky » Sun Dec 31, 2006 8:40 am

ohsherrie wrote:
donnaplease wrote:
We don't ALL think that way...but my father fought in WWII, my husband was in the Navy during the first Gulf War, his father fought in Vietnam, and both of his grandfathers were in the military, so we do feel an allegiance to the people that do step into the uniform every day, who do so willingly knowing that they could be called into action at any time.



Donnaplease, I hope you didn't take personal offense at what I said, I certainly didn't mean it that way.

I don't know of anyone on this board who doesn't honor the courage and commitment of the soldiers who put their lives on the line for us. My father was also in WW II. My uncle in Korea. A family member and a friend were both killed in Viet Nam. Two nephews and two nieces have fought in Afghanistan and Iraq.

I would just like to feel that they are sent to fight and possibly die for a cause that that was presented truthfully.

I hate the war in Iraq because it was begun based on a lie. I supported the war in Afghanistan because it was for a just cause. I honor and support the soldiers no matter where they are.

There was a discussion on the CBS Saturday Early Show this morning about whether or not a country like Iraq could realistically be ruled by anything other than a ruthless dictator. It was suggested that, given the totally irrational nature of the religious zealots that appear to have the most influence over the majority of the people, there may be no hope for democracy.

Even if we had the right to try to impose our form of government(like it's worked so well for us in the last two elections :roll:) on another country, that doesn't mean it can work for all cultures.


ohsherrie, I feel the same way.

I fully support the troops, but it's bittersweet to see some Iraqi's get their justice, when those of us who lost loved ones in 9/11 now see that we will probably never get justice for those American lives lost here at home.

It's also tough to watch so many of our resources going to Iraq, when we have lost Federal funding here in NYC. People are getting sick from exposure in the days following 9/11, some have died, and many of the hospitals used to treat these people are closing due to lack of funds.

I hope the Iraqis take full advantage of the chance we have given them, but it's looking a little bleak.
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Postby Rockindeano » Sun Dec 31, 2006 9:03 am

Fact Finder wrote:Oh come on! Sheik Kalid Muhammed, the mastermind behind 9/11 is safely tucked away at Gitmo. Osama and Zawahiri are on the run and WILL be caught /killed.


I have had enough of this bullshit.

"On the run and will soon be caught?" Dude, after 9/11, Osama was still able to bomb a Madrid Train station. He is anything but caught."

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Postby Marc S » Sun Dec 31, 2006 9:12 am

[/quote]


Oh come on! Sheik Kalid Muhammed, the mastermind behind 9/11 is safely tucked away at Gitmo. Osama and Zawahiri are on the run and WILL be caught /killed. The Taliban is no longer in power and we are killing the new ones as fast as they pop up in Afgahnistsan. Zarqawi is dead, Saddam is dead, Mulla Omar hasn't been seen for months and the Worlds best Fighting Force is on the trail of these radical towelheads. One day at a time.

The President said this would take a long time. America likes their 1 hour TV shows but has no time for long wars anymore. Patience.[/quote]

What hollywood shoot em up film have you been watching, and when do the cavalry arrive? Fuck. This is why we are all in such a shitty mess.
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Postby Barb » Sun Dec 31, 2006 10:04 am

Here's a cell phone video of almost everything.

http://one.revver.com/watch/130549
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Postby Mark H » Sun Dec 31, 2006 10:27 am

One of the most interesting threads I've read in a while with many valid points on both sides.

My input, for what its worth, is based on a very simplistic view.

Whilst the mission to rid Iraq of Saddam is to be applauded on moral grounds it was not justified on the basis of the way it was sold to the public in both the US and UK.

I also think that the results we are seeing now were entirely predictable given that there appears to have been no clear exit strategy and the region has a history of tribal/secular clashes which have only been held in abatement by the application of the sort of measures Saddam employed.

IMHO the job should have been done by a a UN force so that the US (and UK to a lesser extent) would not be setting themselves up as retaliatory targets. Unfortunately it is evident that the UN has no teeth and, whilst the world has a need for a 'global police force' only the US is able and willing to step up to the plate, regardless of the dubious motives/justification of this particular conflict.

At this point I really do not see a favourable way out of the current situation and think that it is inevitable that the region will descend into civil war between the Iraqi sects, with the US and UK forces caught in the middle, providing convenient targets for the various factions.

After all the lives that have been lost on both sides, I would doubt that the average Iraqi on the the streets of Baghdad would conceed that they are now better off or feel safer, and surely that is what we were trying to achieve in the first place.
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Postby Behshad » Sun Dec 31, 2006 10:46 am

RockinDeano wrote:
Fact Finder wrote:Oh come on! Sheik Kalid Muhammed, the mastermind behind 9/11 is safely tucked away at Gitmo. Osama and Zawahiri are on the run and WILL be caught /killed.


I have had enough of this bullshit.

"On the run and will soon be caught?" Dude, after 9/11, Osama was still able to bomb a Madrid Train station. He is anything but caught."

Image


I agree ! you cant just go by almost caught/killed.
However I dont agree with your sig, Deano,,, puttin down people's religion and belief like that makes you no better than the towelheads over there.
Its not because of Islam that there's this much problem in the world. It because of fundamentalist idiots who mix religion with power. Trust me , if you would try to give our political powers in our country to some fundementalist Christians, Jehova's Witness' or Mormons, we would be as bad as them, if not worse.
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Postby Rockindeano » Sun Dec 31, 2006 11:03 am

Jesus Christ, a little humour can go a long way. Besides, I think Allah is a big ol cocksucker. So there :twisted:
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Postby Behshad » Sun Dec 31, 2006 11:06 am

RockinDeano wrote:Jesus Christ, a little humour can go a long way. Besides, I think Allah is a big ol cocksucker. So there :twisted:


Hey man,,
I like your sense of humor,,, thats not it,,,, but it may offend some people, thats all,,,,
so chill out!!! 8) :roll:
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Postby Rockindeano » Sun Dec 31, 2006 11:08 am

I don't give a pelicans ballsack who the Hell I offend. Grow some thicker skin for shits sake.

Ok, here ya go dude.

Allah: Muhahmed, please get 18 other raggies and let's borrow four US airliners and ram them into buildings.
Muhahmed: Ok, We will get right on it, after we eat this Camel shit
Allah: Good boys
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Postby brywool » Sun Dec 31, 2006 11:13 am

Angry_Bald_Conservative wrote:
The_Noble_Cause wrote:Saddam's condamnation is illegal: taken by a kangaroo court, under a foreign occupation of a sovreign nation that has NO legitimate grounds.
Might want to take some pumice soap to your hands and scrub just a little aggressively today, fellow Americans.
We have blood on our hands.
The spilling of blood from a homicidal dictator is spilt blood all the same.


Why do you hate America?


Live Free or Die Hard,

Jon Daniels the III


This is THE dumbest response I've ever seen. WHY do you you equate pointing out that we were in a bullshit war to hating America??? I love America. I especially love the IDEA of America. I was always taught in school that Americans were the "good guys". Yeah, Saddam should've paid, but for us to have our family members fighting Bush's war is absolute bullshit. There are other people in the world in worse conditions, yet we went after this bastard. I'm glad he's gone, but our boys are still over there. FOR WHAT??? I've just played at two gigs for American service peeps that are leaving for the Persian Gulf. That equates to about 3000 people. I felt totally horrible for them. They're fighting for nothing and it has NOTHING to do with protecting our security. "Live Free, Die Hard" is bullshit. Die for something that's worth dying for. Don't die for a dickhead president who's a fucking moron and his crooked administration.
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Postby brywool » Sun Dec 31, 2006 11:21 am

The_Noble_Cause wrote:
Wally_Hatchet wrote:Bottom line: ZERO attacks on the USA since 9/11/01 - Thank you Dubya.


What did Saddam have to do with 9/11/01?
The majority of 9/11 terrorists came from Saudi Arabia.
Last I checked, Bush was making kissy faces and googly eyes at Saudi Crown Prince Abdullah while going for a romantic stroll in the rose garden.
I wouldn't be suprised if he lifted up his tunic and gave him a slobbery raspberry after the press left.

You give shitkicking ignoramus assholess a bad name....and that's saying something.


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Holy Crap, I agree with TNC on something!! ;)
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Postby Barb » Sun Dec 31, 2006 11:31 am

brywool wrote:
The_Noble_Cause wrote:
Wally_Hatchet wrote:Bottom line: ZERO attacks on the USA since 9/11/01 - Thank you Dubya.


What did Saddam have to do with 9/11/01?
The majority of 9/11 terrorists came from Saudi Arabia.
Last I checked, Bush was making kissy faces and googly eyes at Saudi Crown Prince Abdullah while going for a romantic stroll in the rose garden.
I wouldn't be suprised if he lifted up his tunic and gave him a slobbery raspberry after the press left.

You give shitkicking ignoramus assholess a bad name....and that's saying something.


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Holy Crap, I agree with TNC on something!! ;)



think BIG PICTURE, not just Iraq.
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