OT: SADDAM IS DEAD

[RedWingFan]

EVERYBODY in the U.S. saw that GIANT storm headed for New Orleans--how could G. W. Bush have not prepared for it??

Bush contacted Gov. Blanco over 48 hours before Katrina hit, suggesting she evacuate New Orleans. She declined. Do you think Bush should have sent in armed national guardsman to force people out of their homes and onto buses for a forced evacuation? The media would have loved that. Imagine the "flood" of lawsuits of people whose civil rights were violated. I think what saint john was stating is that, liberalism/socialism breeds poverty and dispair which those people were accustomed to, without a single local republican official to blame. The only thing Bush could do is what he did after the fact and that is pass out money, which the federal gov't excels at. But for Bush to ignore Louisiana's "state rights" and put on his cowboy hat and round everyone up is a bit absurd.

[fredinator]

Oh, no, ConversationPC, you've made many righteous proclamations on this board about name-calling (that's the one I remember most) and other high and mighty things, yet you yourself have called me and other people names. Really, I don't care if people call names, use bad words, or whatever (see Deano who I think is a fine man) as long as they aren't righteous about others doing the same...

RedWingFan, I agree with you that policies in the past during Democratic congresses/presidencies have been too lenient and perpetuated some ignorance and poverty. However, in my opinion, if you weigh the number of people who have been helped in one way or another honestly against those who cheat, I think those policies have helped more than they hurt.

I'm sorry, but I disagree with you re: Katrina and Bush being prepared. When Hurricane Andrew swept through Florida (and it might have been a Republican governor in office at the time), I don't remember people (poor or not) out on the streets begging for water!!

[fredinator]

P.S. Please see Keither Olbermann(sp?... my new hero); he puts exactly the way I and others feel in good words on his "Special Comment" segment...

[conversationpc]

Oh, no, ConversationPC, you've made many righteous proclamations on this board about name-calling (that's the one I remember most) and other high and mighty things, yet you yourself have called me and other people names. Really, I don't care if people call names, use bad words, or whatever (see Deano who I think is a fine man) as long as they aren't righteous about others doing the same...

If I were truly going to call names, I would come up with something much better than "lib". It's hardly meant to be a major slam, as it's only short for "liberal". If you're offended by it so much, my spider sense tells me you probably are a lib. That being said, I don't think I've done anything worse than saying "moron" or "myrmadon".

"Myrmadon" is a legitimate word and refers to someone who follows blindly. "Moron" isn't legitimate and I apologize for its use. Can't recall who've used it against but the apology is offered all the same.

As far as "many proclamations" can you point me to these so I can see what I said? I highly doubt you'll find more than a handful of those kinds of posts, if even that, so it's hardly a pedestal that I climb on all that often.

The only thing that really bothers me is blasphemy. Some may call my offense at that as sanctimonious but it is offensive to me and that's really the only issue that I would get all that flustered over on this board.

[fredinator]

To quote Ronald Reagan, "well, there you go again;" you have every intention of turning the word "lib" into a dirty word... If you meant "liberal" you should have said "liberal" and not "lib." There is nothing wrong with being liberal as there is nothing wrong with being conservative... It is the twisting of the word that is almost underhanded if you ask me. Keep your apologies, also; they are not genuine; that is very clear. I would guess that you have a problem with "blasphemy" since your "religion" is your insurance that you will get into heaven.

[fredinator]

Deano, Moose PMd me and asked me, "Why, why do all your posts sound the same?" Do all my posts sound the same to you? If so, I will go back into lurking. (Is that okay to publish what Moose said in his PM?)

Nancy

[conversationpc]

If you meant "liberal" you should have said "liberal" and not "lib." There is nothing wrong with being liberal as there is nothing wrong with being conservative... It is the twisting of the word that is almost underhanded if you ask me.

It's no worse than the term "neo-con" which I've been called numerous times and it offends me not in the least. If "lib" offends you, then you need to get a thicker skin instead of castigating people for using the word.

Keep your apologies, also; they are not genuine; that is very clear. I would guess that you have a problem with "blasphemy" since your "religion" is your insurance that you will get into heaven.

I don't flippantly offer apologies. If I apologize, take it at face value. Whether you accept it or not is up to you.

No, my religion is not my insurance that I will get to heaven. Jesus is why I will get to heaven and my relationship with him. Religion, as far as it means man's attempt to gain his own salvation, has nothing to do with it. There's nothing I can do to earn anything that Christ has already gained for me. It's all Him and nothing I've done.

I do ask you this, though...Are you an atheist? You seem to have a problem with religion in general, or at least non-dishrag Christians who can actually articulate their positions and forcefully stand behind them instead of capitulating or, as is often the case with some Christians, beating others over the head in an attempt to force Christianity down the throats of others.

[Rockindeano]

Deano, Moose PMd me and asked me, "Why, why do all your posts sound the same?" Do all my posts sound the same to you? If so, I will go back into lurking. (Is that okay to publish what Moose said in his PM?)

Nancy

Moose and I signed the MelodicRock.com Treaty back in November. We both decided the fighting was bogging down the Board so we rectified it.

Having said that, I think he is wrong on this. Keep posting. I need the allies.

[conversationpc]

Deano, Moose PMd me and asked me, "Why, why do all your posts sound the same?" Do all my posts sound the same to you? If so, I will go back into lurking. (Is that okay to publish what Moose said in his PM?)

Nancy

Moose and I signed the MelodicRock.com Treaty back in November. We both decided the fighting was bogging down the Board so we rectified it.

Having said that, I think he is wrong on this. Keep posting. I need the allies.

You don't need the allies. You do quite well arguing all by yourself.

[fredinator]

Well, that is actually why I came in here "swinging." Plus, you are a soldier--couldn't stand to have you trompled on. Moose, quit sending me PMs, okay, unless they are fun or jokes or cute animal pictures, okay?

[fredinator]

Why would you think I'm an atheist? I never brought religion into the picture at all; I've seen in your profile where you declared yourself a christian and other posts of yours re: religion. I really haven't called you a hypocrite either because I'm not sure you are one and I'm not sure I'm qualified to judge. I think you are a good guy and I admire your knowledge re: Journey and music, but I have a son in Afghanistan and I am passionately opposed to our being in Iraq, and I get aggravated with folks that I think are like what Deano described. If you are going to thank my son's service, blah, blah, don't--if I had had any influence over him, I would have talked him out of volunteering to go there.

[conversationpc]

Why would you think I'm an atheist? I never brought religion into the picture at all; I've seen in your profile where you declared yourself a christian and other posts of yours re: religion. I really haven't called you a hypocrite either because I'm not sure you are one and I'm not sure I'm qualified to judge. I think you are a good guy and I admire your knowledge re: Journey and music, but I have a son in Afghanistan and I am passionately opposed to our being in Iraq, and I get aggravated with folks that I think are like what Deano described. If you are going to thank my son's service, blah, blah, don't--if I had had any influence over him, I would have talked him out of volunteering to go there.

It is admirable for your son to have gone into the military to serve his country. I think we can agree that we definitely should've gone into Afghanistan. Iraq is another story. I'm not sure we should be there, either, but it ticks me off to no end to hear the President called a liar or a murderer, especially when prominent Democrats were saying the exact same things he was prior to the war and having had access to the same intelligence that Bush had, which was again the same intelligence that other countries were seeing as well. Anyway, I can respect your disagreement on that as long as I'm not considered a moron for thinking we might be doing some good there. Having that belief doesn't make me a "Bushie" or conservative idiot like some here would indicate.

[SteveForever]

Why would you think I'm an atheist? I never brought religion into the picture at all; I've seen in your profile where you declared yourself a christian and other posts of yours re: religion. I really haven't called you a hypocrite either because I'm not sure you are one and I'm not sure I'm qualified to judge. I think you are a good guy and I admire your knowledge re: Journey and music, but I have a son in Afghanistan and I am passionately opposed to our being in Iraq, and I get aggravated with folks that I think are like what Deano described. If you are going to thank my son's service, blah, blah, don't--if I had had any influence over him, I would have talked him out of volunteering to go there.

Thank God we have patriots like him (your son) that want to serve this Nation in a higher ideal and not serve their own selfish personal interests. This may sound cliche' but freedom is not free. Only 2% of 300 million Americans are serving in the military. Those people are willing to put their lives on the line in a foreign nation so that we don't have to worry if a bomb is going to go off in the parking lot. Not trying to get into more debate with anyone on here or argue my points....but bottom line is....Nancy, you reared a super human being and thank you.

[fredinator]

Oh, Lordy, we could go off in another direction re: the intelligence received by Bush... There were plenty of other people telling him there were no WMDs; one of them is probably going to sue him when he gets out of office (Valerie Plame's husband, I think his name is Wilson)... I remember the weapons inspector saying over and over again that they had found no evidence of WMDs up until the day they took off in that plane, and then the next day or two was "shock and awe" day... Yech... Well, gotta go... See ya,

Nancy

[Rockindeano]

but it ticks me off to no end to hear the President called a liar or a murderer,

I would call Bush a liar to his face. Have ZERO respect for him. I wouldn't however, call him a murderer; just a "careless sonofabitch."

[conversationpc]

but it ticks me off to no end to hear the President called a liar or a murderer,

I would call Bush a liar to his face. Have ZERO respect for him. I wouldn't however, call him a murderer; just a "careless sonofabitch."

Clinton could be called that, too, but what purpose does that serve. Have some respect for the office if not for the person. I don't care for Clinton or Carter for that matter but they deserve better treatment than what they get from some Conservatives.

[Jeremey fan forever]

and how can you take something like that seriously that didn't involve ANYONE with any actual military experience.

That same sentence can be applied to thre president, Vice president and Wolfowitz. NO military service, yet we should take them seriously?

Fuck no! That would be like having a heart surgeon who never had bypass.

Don't you mean "performed" a bypass?

No, I meant one who never had one performed on himself. I was mocking. I think whether or not a General fought in a war is not necessarily relevant to whether or not he can orchestrate one succesfully. Not saying the war was well orchestrated, but I think the Deano's notion is a fallacy in my opinion.

[conversationpc]

and how can you take something like that seriously that didn't involve ANYONE with any actual military experience.

That same sentence can be applied to thre president, Vice president and Wolfowitz. NO military service, yet we should take them seriously?

Fuck no! That would be like having a heart surgeon who never had bypass.

Don't you mean "performed" a bypass?

No, I meant one who never had one performed on himself. I was mocking. I think whether or not a General fought in a war is not necessarily relevant to whether or not he can orchestrate one succesfully. Not saying the war was well orchestrated, but I think the Deano's notion is a fallacy in my opinion.

Gotcha.

[ohsosoto]

would you want his job? right now the majority of us have to answer to only a handfull of people. can you imagine having to answer to entire usa?
not to mention the rest of the world? granted, i don't always agree with the outcome of his decisions, but, could you sleep at night with the shit he deals
with. for insight, we moan about who can sing the best and who can't. that doesn't have shit on the what he has to do everyday. everyday we deal with
real issues in our private life.. i.e. sickness, bills, family. it's nice to come to a forum like this and live our fantasy lives and make it appear that what
we talk about REALLY MATTERS. sometimes, we just need to check ourselves. ok, i'm off of my soap box now.

[Rockindeano]

would you want his job? right now the majority of us have to answer to only a handfull of people. can you imagine having to answer to entire usa?
not to mention the rest of the world? granted, i don't always agree with the outcome of his decisions, but, could you sleep at night with the shit he deals
with. for insight, we moan about who can sing the best and who can't. that doesn't have shit on the what he has to do everyday. everyday we deal with
real issues in our private life.. i.e. sickness, bills, family. it's nice to come to a forum like this and live our fantasy lives and make it appear that what
we talk about REALLY MATTERS. sometimes, we just need to check ourselves. ok, i'm off of my soap box now.

Cry me a river. If it's too demanding why the Hell did he run...twice?

Besides, no other president has taken more vacation time than this one. He spends as much time AWAY from the Whitehouse as he does in it.

[Rockindeano]

Dave,

Sadly, I don't respect the office as much now as I did 6 years ago.

[ohsosoto]

deano, when are you putting your hat in the ring? how would you change it up? let's hear some solutions from ya instead of the fact you don't have respect
for the office anymore. this is just a discussion, not picken a fight. what's your opinion? how this went from journey to how to fix the usa, is beyond
me. i guess that is where fantasy meets reality.

[Rockindeano]

deano, when are you putting your hat in the ring? how would you change it up? let's hear some solutions from ya instead of the fact you don't have respect
for the office anymore. this is just a discussion, not picken a fight. what's your opinion? how this went from journey to how to fix the usa, is beyond
me. i guess that is where fantasy meets reality.

Jesus, are you serious?

It's one thing to have incompetence in the office, as we had that in the Carter Administration. However, to add corruption along with incompetence, is the recipe for disaster, and that is what you have now. You really cannot defend that, as the GOP lost the Mid terms, handidly. The World does not respect us, and our allies have left us; hopefully with a new president, they will return.

What sickens me with this administration is the manipulation of Karl Rove(yes, you might as well have him included in the Senior official roster), of the electorate. How they got so many soccer moms and NASCAR dads to think they had a solid plan is beyond me. Pre-planned war, leaking names of CIA Operatives, terrible mismanagement of the war...the list goes on and on.

I actually have no problem with Bush picking his Federal judges and the US Supreme Court Justices. He won the election, that is his right. Social issues by this administration don't bother me. I can care less if fags can marry or not; I can care less if the Feds try to make abortion illegal; it's a state decision anyway. The far right has the power of the GOP, yet their issues are so minute as to their effect on the majority of the electorate.

[The_Noble_Cause]

speaking WMDS... Clinton KNEW he had em... and was willing to go to war over em in 1998, before 9/11...Maddie Albright and Al Gore were making hey **rushing us to go over there** back in the day... or does everyone forget....**intellgence** were all over the WMDS even then....but they wimpered out... becuase his gay left wing of the party couldn't deal with it---at that time----he left it for Gore to handle. but oh yea.. Gore Lost... so in comes W with a plan....to topple the govt of Iraq, done, have Iraqi hold elections, done---and trial for Saddam by his own people.. done... excuted by his own people done.. My guess is if 9/11 did not happen this plan would not have been done when it did, heck it might have always been on the back burner........ Bush would have waited for the next 15 un resolutions.....and by now he would have had the WMDS more stockpiled-- instead of shipped off to Syria, which then shipped them off to Iran...disclaimer...not facts just theorizing on that part of it---the rest just my opinion..

Rick

PBS had a great Frontline repeat tonight which summates the entire WMD lie.
Hopefully, a few of you redstate bumblefucks turned off the Monster truck rally and tuned in.

[ohsosoto]

deano, i'm impressed. you got your thoughts across with slamming me against a wall, verbally that is. i can't speak for your mental thoughts though.

you appear to be more well rounded than what previous posts would picture. well said. kudos!

[ohsosoto]

that was supposed to be withOUT slamming me against a wall. it's getting late here in heartland.

[The_Noble_Cause]

My response was regarding you claiming that I'm blaming Deano for SA's firing. I was stating that I wasn't blaming and that blame had nothing to do with the topic. Try keeping things in context, please.

Dude, I don't care to quarrel about petty semantics. I'm just responding to what you write.
If it doesn't make sense, or the message is lost on me, that's a reflection of your shoddiness as a writer.

The "basic facts" that you're presenting aren't the WHOLE PICTURE. You want to frame what you want into a neat little window and then throw a rock through it.

There's no two ways around it.
You said the US is better off because of this war.
ZERO Intelligence reports pan that out.
Either we HAVE benefited or we HAVEN’T.

That's a fair perspective. It doesn't make it the ultimate truth.

Oh yes, because I’m sure you, in all your wife-beater-wearing infinite wisdom, know better than someone firmly ensconced in the foreign intelligence community.

No yanking. Here's what I said:
You've shown more concern and outrage about someone lip synching than you have about a LUNATIC TYRANT who's committed some REAL sins.

I'm responding to what you've posted IN THIS THREAD.

I'm concerned with the homefront.
If the Iraqi people so badly wanted a revolution then, by god, let them rise up and do what we did to free ourselves of the yoke of British Imperialism.

[Moon Beam]

Holy Fucking Hell, if ever you lot are with me
in a room anywhere......
NO Fucking Politics allowed!

OMG send your energy to those that
serve would ya?
This shit is fruitless.

[Rockindeano]

Holy Fucking Hell, if ever you lot are with me
in a room anywhere......
NO Fucking Politics allowed!

OMG send your energy to those that
serve would ya?
This shit is fruitless.

Have another donut, sister. if you can't keep up, shut up. I can go another 20 straight hours on this shit.

[fredinator]

Has Carlitto gone yet? He hasn't posted on here in a while...