Frustrating

[San Diego Gary]

Dean, I suspect you're right on that one, but I haven't been following NASCAR much. In drag racing, Line and Anderson are the cheating bastards of the moment. That team has won the last 4 Pro Stock championships in a row.

Its just like racing, when everyone is pissed and thinks you're a cheating asshole, it means you're winning big time.

L8r,

Aaron

Yeah, that's what Jimmie Johnson must feel like, eh, Aron?

So, Aaron, do they have the nitros in the hood, or the battery cable? lol.

[Andrew]

To describe MR as unmoderated is probably an exaggeration (one that I have been guilty of in the past). It is true I would like to see MORE moderation here – not of peoples views but to curb some of the out and out aggression and attacks on other people that sometimes passes for the norm around here – but I understand Andrew’s reluctance to do so.

This site has improved considerably from a few months ago, thanks in part to a mellower Deano (which I applaud by the way). Maybe it’s because of the other forum, maybe it’s just natural evolution, maybe it’s just my perception. However, I congratulate Andrew on keeping this forum together and enabling it to continue to make a positive contribution to the Journey experience.

Marty

Thanks Marty - 2 of your points -

1) It is not reluctance on my part to curb the aggression - there are times where I am kept very busy doing so. PMs and post deletions etc. THE only thing I don't really do very often is outright ban people, which I guess leads to the assumption that at times I am not doing enough.
I put a lot of faith in people realizing they need to pull their heads in, and tha will continue. But I will remain ever vigilant.

2) Thanks for the positive feedback and the feeling that a positive contribution to the Journey experience is happening here.

[Andrew]

I guess what you did ,Andrew, was to simply respect their wishes.
Whether Journey made theright choice by not speaking about their problems,is up to them.

I am in total agreeance with you on that.

On the other hand,Andrew,I truly believe that you have learned your lessons last year,and that you know exactly what you have done wrong.

And here also. Of course there are always tings that could have ben done better and 2006 provided many situations that I have learnt from.

[Andrew]

You are not that dense as to need "objective" explained to you. If this were a fan site, the things that have gone on (and continue) would be expected. Perhaps it was my mistake to ever hold the opinion that MR had objective info and objective (in the journalistic sense) interviews. There is Time Mag and there is the National Enquirer. We all knew there was quite a bit of tabloid journalism around this place, but now that the extent has surfaced, it is rather disheartening.

It is not the content of the latest Journey interviews that is the point. There was not much that was surprising in them. It is all that surrounded them. Unfortunately at some point it became about people other than Journey. Even the fact that you come on these message boards and claim to need a little propping up from your minions in this thread demonstrates the point. This is just another "fan" site now. Many of us previously believed it was a valid media outlet. Our mistake.

Wow, I was hoping for some insight or valid criticism, but your response gives me nothing to go on, besides making a clear point of showing your true colours.
I thought you might have something interesting to say. Not to worry I guess!

[Andrew]

Liz is right that 'Gate drove some great posters into the woodwork to lurk-only or post much less.

If I can take it, (prolly) the biggest Generations lineup fan here then I'd invite those friends back here as well and they know who they are.

Good sentiment mate. All are welcome here and now the changes have been done, the announcement made - surely now is a time to move on....that includes joining in here if anyone so chooses.

[Andrew]

BTW, anybody else who shares LAWoman's sanity and believes posts like the above DRIVE PEOPLE AWAY should also join journeyforums.com

Careful there Momker, you are beginning to sound like a door to door salesman.

[Andrew]

Lack of objectivity?
I'm at a loss for that one.
You get a strong sense from the interviews that Andrew was appreciative to be interviewing the guys and to have this behind-the-scenes experience. But, that's a good thing. Andrew's enthusisam was infectious and made the piece more relatable to the average fan - as we all would kill to be in his shoes.

Thanks TNC, the amazing e-mails I got regarding the piece were 100% unanimous in stating what you just have - which of course was my objective.

[Andrew]

That is were Andrew's objectivity will be questioned. It's a moot point as far as I'm concerned so don't shoot the messenger. I do not post here as much as I used to (not that I posted much originally) but definitely lurk here when time permits.

Hi Liz,
I am happy to take this criticism on board and would like to state that such won't happen again. I do absolutely see this point of view and the fact that it (as an individual complaint) can affect the enjoyment of the article by some is very disappointing for me to hear, but I do understand the point being made.

[Andrew]

The difference is that they do not recruit that "extra pair of eyes" from their "audience". The people recruited were obviously not professionals or there would not have been so many typos.

NoLIp - if you have a list of typos that remain, do let me know...I'll update the files with corrections if need be. I certainly did my best to ensure such a large piece was free errors (as much as posible).

[Andrew]

Andrew,

Did you actually say that this fourm was family friendly??????!

No, FAN friendly. Not sure about the family friendly bit!

[Andrew]

As far as I'm concerned, Andrew, you're doing a top-notch job, and to those who are unhappy here, if you don't like the program, change the channel.

Thanks Belar and others for the feedback. All appreciated and taken note of.

[Andrew]

I might add that I continue to hear mention of "problems" within this forum. A new year brings an opportunity to make positive changes and I'll be at the forefront of doing just that.

[jrNY]

Andrew,

Don't change a thing........please. I rarely post but I do enjoy this forum and don't want it to change. I've read everyone's praises/gripes and the praises for what you do just overwhelms the gripes. That should tell ya something!

[SusieP]

I only found this site last Summer, having been in a kind of Journey wasteland up until then. Not much press about them, no t.v coverage, no radio airplay except the occasional airing of the two hits they had here, so, I felt like I was the only person who knew who Journey were - they aren't as big over here as they are in the US - I'm sure the other Forum members in the UK would agree. If they disagree, I'm just saying how it felt to me.

So when I came across your little gem of a site, I was pleased, Andrew.

Yes I came in at the height of Tapegate, and it was a scary place for a newbie. There were [still are] a lot of aggressive and insulting posts, but I read them and devoured all the information about the band which lay within them. Maybe Andrew could have been more 'visible' with his moderating of this stuff when it kicks off, but, I haven't been driven away, I still check in from time to time and I guess I have sussed out where most of the main posters are coming from and I read their posts with interest. Most volatile situations have resolved themselves after a while, anyway.

Regarding the proof-reading and the people chosen to carry out the job, well, my take on it is that certain posters on here - to me, are what I would call forum 'monitors'. In school here, a teacher will appoint certain class members to carry out certain little tasks for them, like handing out the text books or something like that.
That's what I saw this as.
To me certain posters are the 'characters' who make this forum what it is. Some of those 'characters' were the ones chosen.
I'm not jealous of them, they have seniority, if you like. They have earned the right. So it was fine by me. But I can see that other regular posters may have felt slighted or snubbed because they weren't asked.

I tend to agree with some others that maybe Andrew should have chosen his 'monitors' from somewhere other than this forum to avoid any potential bad-feeling. Or to keep it quiet about who had helped.
But forum members were chosen and we all know about it.
Perhaps that was a mistake, and in hindsight maybe that's what Andrew thinks, but - what's done is done.

Feelings may have been a bit hurt or feathers ruffled - but nobody was killed.


In my opinion, what matters is that the information finally came out for us all to read.

Nobody's perfect.

And the popularity of the site speaks for itself, Andrew.
People from all walks of life and from different places around the world visit your site regularly.
Take comfort in that, mate. And remember that adage,

" you can please some of the people some of the time,
but you will never please all of the people all of the time."

The thing about all this which annoys me is the length of time you had to wait before you were allowed to post the interviews.
That was my two cents. Bye for now.

[Andrew]

Andrew,

Don't change a thing........please. I rarely post but I do enjoy this forum and don't want it to change. I've read everyone's praises/gripes and the praises for what you do just overwhelms the gripes. That should tell ya something!

No sweeping changes...but if any problems occur, they will be delt with.

[Dyzzi]

Name & Shame those peeps who are talking about you Andrew.
I don't post too much here now as i'm busy with another site building it up etc.
Your doing a great job your a 1 man band here.

[nolippin]

Will do.

The difference is that they do not recruit that "extra pair of eyes" from their "audience". The people recruited were obviously not professionals or there would not have been so many typos.

NoLIp - if you have a list of typos that remain, do let me know...I'll update the files with corrections if need be. I certainly did my best to ensure such a large piece was free errors (as much as posible).

[brianh28]

Andrew,

I just want to say Thanks for this site. It has been a source of news for me on my favorite bands (Journey, VH) for many years. I'm new to the forums but am enjoying it here. I like the fact that people can express their opnions openly here and at journeyforums and not just be forced to play cheerleader like at BT

[LAWoman]

You are not that dense as to need "objective" explained to you. If this were a fan site, the things that have gone on (and continue) would be expected. Perhaps it was my mistake to ever hold the opinion that MR had objective info and objective (in the journalistic sense) interviews. There is Time Mag and there is the National Enquirer. We all knew there was quite a bit of tabloid journalism around this place, but now that the extent has surfaced, it is rather disheartening.

It is not the content of the latest Journey interviews that is the point. There was not much that was surprising in them. It is all that surrounded them. Unfortunately at some point it became about people other than Journey. Even the fact that you come on these message boards and claim to need a little propping up from your minions in this thread demonstrates the point. This is just another "fan" site now. Many of us previously believed it was a valid media outlet. Our mistake.

Wow, I was hoping for some insight or valid criticism, but your response gives me nothing to go on, besides making a clear point of showing your true colours.
I thought you might have something interesting to say. Not to worry I guess!

I'm not going to go through a point-by-point list because, as I said, I cannot fathom that you don't know what objectivity in journalism is. Other people seem pretty clear on it. And as these couple of posts have shown there are people here who make everything into a personal attack on the poster rather than the point. I am not going to participate in that.

I have zero problem with Journey. They are inspiring musicians. Neal's music and whole career is so full of light that nothing can obscure it. Jeff is a fabulous talent. It's their lives, their careers. What they do is up to them and I have no issues with their decisions. The business end of music is often distracting but the music remains the point. I anxiously await what Jeff can add to the Journey collaborations. The problems I have are with all the others who try to massage things for their own glorification and what they can get out of it. You, sadly, appear to be one of them and I am disappointed in that. If you want to brush that off as "showing true colors" so be it. Things have a way of working out in the end.

[The_Noble_Cause]

The difference is that they do not recruit that "extra pair of eyes" from their "audience". The people recruited were obviously not professionals or there would not have been so many typos.

Actually, Drew already stated he had people from outside the forum take a scrutinizing glance at it, as well.
So it wasn't read by just us dyslexic fanboys - it's simply called human error.

Any threads started with any meaniingful discussion not centered around them and their recent escapades were hijacked.

Bull. Never happened.

[Rockindeano]

The difference is that they do not recruit that "extra pair of eyes" from their "audience". The people recruited were obviously not professionals or there would not have been so many typos.

Whatetever.

I can write better than any soul on this Board or BT for that matter. That isn't self ego, that's the simple truth. I corrected a bunch of stuff and Andrew, obviously overwhelmed, failed to catch everything.

[RedWingFan]

The difference is that they do not recruit that "extra pair of eyes" from their "audience". The people recruited were obviously not professionals or there would not have been so many typos.

Whatetever.

I can write better than any soul on this Board or BT for that matter. That isn't self ego, that's the simple truth. I corrected a bunch of stuff and Andrew, obviously overwhelmed, failed to catch everything.

Way to throw poor Andrew under the bus, T.O.

[fredinator]

Oh, for God's sake, this is Melodicrock, not the LA Times... It was just an innocuous interview, entertaining and light; there weren't any bombshells in it... As I recall, Andrew was drowning in work and people volunteered to help him type up the interviews; and since everybody wanted to know what was in them and maybe he felt some pressure, he innocently and gratefully accepted the offer... Sorry, LAWoman, but you sound like a lot of the other blowhards on here...

[Andrew]

I can write better than any soul on this Board or BT for that matter. That isn't self ego, that's the simple truth. I corrected a bunch of stuff and Andrew, obviously overwhelmed, failed to catch everything.

Actually, I corrected the typo's you pointed out and the 3 others that saw it (personal friends of mine) also added a couple of different typo's themselves.

They all kept the fact that I had asked them to proof read the feature to themselves also.

[The_Noble_Cause]

I'm not going to go through a point-by-point list because, as I said, I cannot fathom that you don't know what objectivity in journalism is. Other people seem pretty clear on it. And as these couple of posts have shown there are people here who make everything into a personal attack on the poster rather than the point. I am not going to participate in that.

I have zero problem with Journey. They are inspiring musicians. Neal's music and whole career is so full of light that nothing can obscure it. Jeff is a fabulous talent. It's their lives, their careers. What they do is up to them and I have no issues with their decisions. The business end of music is often distracting but the music remains the point. I anxiously await what Jeff can add to the Journey collaborations. The problems I have are with all the others who try to massage things for their own glorification and what they can get out of it. You, sadly, appear to be one of them and I am disappointed in that. If you want to brush that off as "showing true colors" so be it. Things have a way of working out in the end.

You're right, LA Woman.
Andrew was not 100% objective and for that, you, and many others, should get down on your knees and bathe his dirt stained bushwacker toes.

If he was to be 100% objective, there would no longer be a Journey today.
You do realize, that like mostly everyone else in the 'biz, Andrew obviously had to be aware of TapeGate, right?
He absolutely had to.
Here he probably had the biggest story of his career on his hands and he sqwooshed it - for fans like you, and me, and himself.

I hope the next ambulance you chase, hauls ass, and leaves treadmarks on your powersuit.

[Andrew]

The problems I have are with all the others who try to massage things for their own glorification and what they can get out of it. You, sadly, appear to be one of them.

WOW again!

I was invited to do a feature...and I did a feature that the band, management and the absolute vast majority loved!

Self glorification??!!!

[donnaplease]

WOW again!

I was invited to do a feature...and I did a feature that the band, management and the absolute vast majority loved!

Self glorification??!!!

Drew~

Don't waste any more time on these people. They're not worth the effort of a response.

[nolippin]

Bull. Happens all the time.

Any threads started with any meaniingful discussion not centered around them and their recent escapades were hijacked.

[/quote]Bull. Never happened.[/quote]

[Deb]

You're right, LA Woman.
Andrew was not 100% objective and for that, you, and many others, should get down on your knees and bathe his dirt stained bushwacker toes.

If he was to be 100% objective, there would no longer be a Journey today.
You do realize, that like mostly everyone else in the 'biz, Andrew obviously had to be aware of TapeGate, right?
He absolutely had to.
Here he probably had the biggest story of his career on his hands and he sqwooshed it - for fans like you, and me, and himself.

I hope the next ambulance you chase, hauls ass, and leaves treadmarks on your powersuit.

You've got quite a way with adjectives there TNC.

[The_Noble_Cause]

You're right, LA Woman.
Andrew was not 100% objective and for that, you, and many others, should get down on your knees and bathe his dirt stained bushwacker toes.

If he was to be 100% objective, there would no longer be a Journey today.
You do realize, that like mostly everyone else in the 'biz, Andrew obviously had to be aware of TapeGate, right?
He absolutely had to.
Here he probably had the biggest story of his career on his hands and he sqwooshed it - for fans like you, and me, and himself.

I hope the next ambulance you chase, hauls ass, and leaves treadmarks on your powersuit.

You've got quite a way with adjectives there TNC.

The post was far better before a certain moderator decided to take a brillo pad and some comet to it.
Whoever says this place isn't moderated isn't being nearly offensive enough.