The Only Thing

[Monker]

oops.

[AR]

Ok, by your request, not posting on another forum about this forum, or about you. This whole thing is really behind me now but for some reason it seems like it needs to be spelled out one more time. I will try to do it without repeating my past rants on this forum. So, hopefuly, it's not too boring.

When I look at this forum, right now - today, it reminds me SO much of BT. I'm not going to detail out why, I've explained it many times. With the exception of the "BACKTALK" subforum over there, I really have nothing to say there any longer. Not because I don't have anything to say, but because what I have to say will get me kicked off the forum.

The only difference, from my perspective, between BT and this forum is that I could post whatever I wanted without being kicked off. The trade-off is that I'll get the "whiney bitch" posts back at me. So what...I can deal with that. I have a thicker skin then most people here realize. So, that is the ONLY THING that kept me here - I could say what I wanted to say but couldn't at BT.

However, again - from MY perspective, it doesn't make for much interesting conversation when all I get back is "you whiney bitch, stop whining or leave." That's all good and fine...I said what I wanted, and that's what I'm here for...to express myself. It's the ONLY THING that kept me here.

I ALSO know the experience of being on a forum where a diversity of opinion is not only allowed - but ENCOURAGED by the owners and moderators. THAT is the ONLY THING I have TRIED to encourage here, on the mailing list, and even on BT. THAT is what I think journeyforums.com brings to table. It hasn't been there since Sky's original forum was replaced by BT and the changes to how things were run started, as Frank has described.

So, it's nothing personal against you. It's nothing meant to attack you. I just know and understand what Frank and Sky are trying to do. I know I'll be able to interact with Perry fans, Augeri fans, JSS fans, without any of them having to watch what they say for fear of moderators OR over-zealous posters. THAT is a good experience, a complete experience.

Being able to say whatever you want is not the ONLY THING that matters to everybody...and the more people who are around, and the more diverse the opinons are, the better the forum experience will be.

No the other over worded bore fest you are now posting on reminds me of BT.

Here is what you windbags sound like:

"Yes, I never thought of that Monker, that was refreshing to hear it said that way"

"I think that the band needs to stop playing the dirty dozen and move to a new horizon"

"Yes Fred, I'm just not so sure about JSS either, but I might give them a chance if they play no hits and ignore their core fanbase and not make any money"

"Yes Andrew really dropped the ball by catering to one segment of the fans. You know the ones who party with the band, follow them across the country and actually still have a good time with the music."

"Gee, you're right Fyre, I am so glad that I sit behind this keyboard all day and over analyze 20 year old albums. We are so lucky to have this forum to express ourselves."

Go over to your boring site and fucking stay there.

[Andrew]

Monker - I don't disagree with anything you have said, nor do I have a problem with these points.

And I certainly don't have a problem with the other forum as such, however, I did feel it was time to address the complaints.

I appreciate you posting this here, so I can address it directly.

One thing I want of this forum is diversity of opinion. I do encourage that and will continue to do so. We have shown that at times, and I know we will again.

The last 12 months saw things get out of control, and the other new forum has the advantage of coming in at a time where the worst is over and at a time set for people to move on.
I would have loved to see what would have happened if the issues played out here, were played out there. I'm sure Frank and Sky would have at least been left with a headache or two.

I have said all I have to say...I'm using this point as a turning point for this board and have the advice of many in the back of my mind - including that coming from you Monker. Perhaps it could have been delivered in a non-sermon kind of way at times?

Thanks for the post.

[Andrew]

Go over to your boring site and fucking stay there.

AR - I have no problem with Monker's post. His opinion...I want a level playing field here from now on. Me included.

[AR]

Go over to your boring site and fucking stay there.

AR - I have no problem with Monker's post. His opinion...I want a level playing field here from now on. Me included.

Understood, just voicing my own opinion. They used your site as a venue to start that drab looking thing. I certainly am only speaking about what I think.

I just go to Journey shows and rock out and have fun. Something that is lost in the over analyzing of 20+ year old recordings.

One thing that probably makes me a little different is that JRNY isn't my favorite band. Top 5 for sure, but I can distance myself a bit and just enjoy whatever they as a band choose to present (minus the Generations tour)

For Monker and Co. "If it makes you happy, It can't be that bad" I guess.

[Arkansas]

I think what most people don't realize is that "being able to say whatever you want" actually carries much more responsibility than the heavily moderated sites. Just because you can say something doesn't mean that you have to run around like some potty-mouthed high school jock. I like this board and really enjoy the entire site. It's just all the profanity and juvenile jabs that make no sense to me. People don't realize how bad they make themselves look when they can't make a decent post without foul language and punk attitudes. (But I must admit, whenever I need quite a good laugh I can always come here to read the drivel!)


later~

[AR]

I think what most people don't realize is that "being able to say whatever you want" actually carries much more responsibility than the heavily moderated sites. Just because you can say something doesn't mean that you have to run around like some potty-mouthed high school jock. I like this board and really enjoy the entire site. It's just all the profanity and juvenile jabs that make no sense to me. People don't realize how bad they make themselves look when they can't make a decent post without foul language and punk attitudes. (But I must admit, whenever I need quite a good laugh I can always come here to read the drivel!)


later~

Guess what site the band pays most attention to?

Appreciate that you enjoy this site. We as members have fun here. I think it's the best and most informative on the net. I go somewhere else for my laughs. BTW, that site wouldn't have had a launch without promoting themselves right here. Think BT would have allowed that? (I don't know, did Frank and Co. advertise there?)

[Andrew]

Well said Ark. Thanks for the post.

[Andrew]

Think BT would have allowed that? (I don't know, did Frank and Co. advertise there?)

Yes they did....but it did go badly down hill there....

[Monker]

oops.

[The_Noble_Cause]

The trade-off is that I'll get the "whiney bitch" posts back at me. So what...I can deal with that. I have a thicker skin then most people here realize. However, again - from MY perspective, it doesn't make for much interesting conversation when all I get back is "you whiney bitch, stop whining or leave."

What did you expect?
Say something of merit and maybe you will recieve respones that break free from the typical "whiny bitch" norm.
You used to be a fairly enlightening guy, but now it seems you strive to be an iconoclast at every chance simply just because.

False arguments like "Jeff is a metal singer" aren't deserving of anyone's serious consideration.

[JeremyP]

I think that Jeff sings metal quite well. There are a couple of clips on youtube that feature him with Yngwie and he's kicking ass and sounding very Dio-esque IMO.

He can also do soul, r&b (not really my thing, but he can sing it), and of course rock.

He's got a really strong and versatile voice, regardless of whether one thinks he's right for Journey.

I realize I'm kinda going off on a tangent here, but the metal singer stuff reminded me of the youtube clips.

[The_Noble_Cause]

I think that Jeff sings metal quite well. There are a couple of clips on youtube that feature him with Yngwie and he's kicking ass and sounding very Dio-esque IMO.

He can also do soul, r&b (not really my thing, but he can sing it), and of course rock.

He's got a really strong and versatile voice, regardless of whether one thinks he's right for Journey.

I realize I'm kinda going off on a tangent here, but the metal singer stuff reminded me of the youtube clips.

I know Jeff has sung metal. He has sung alot of styles.
My point is, as soon as his inclusion into the band was announced, Monker made it his job to oppose him.
Saying stuff like, "Nope...Journey crossed with metal doesn't intererst me in the slightest."
If he wasn't saying that, he was denying TapeGate, or saying Neal could have fired Augeri at any given time.

None of what he said was accurate and resultingly, this website's moderator probably felt ZERO obligation to protect Monker when he was RIGHTLY taken to task for his misguided beliefs.

Andrew's only crime in this whole debacle has been consistantly siding with the truth.
Now people want to make that out to be 'bias'.

[JeremyP]

I know Jeff has sung metal. He has sung alot of styles.
My point is, as soon as his inclusion into the band was announced, Monker made it his job to oppose him.
Saying stuff like, "Nope...Journey crossed with metal doesn't intererst me in the slightest."
If he wasn't saying that, he was denying TapeGate, or saying Neal could have fired Augeri at any given time.

None of what he said was accurate and resultingly, this website's moderator probably felt ZERO obligation to protect Monker when he was RIGHTLY taken to task for his misguided beliefs.

Andrew's only crime in this whole debacle has been consistantly siding with the truth.
Now people want to make that out to be 'bias'.

I gotta say, Journey crossed with metal sounds pretty good to me!

I just wanted to comment on the metal singer stuff, I know you weren't specifically talking about Jeff's diverse vocal stylings, but I wanted to jump in there with that really quick.

[Monker]

oops.

[NealIsGod]

I think that Jeff sings metal quite well. There are a couple of clips on youtube that feature him with Yngwie and he's kicking ass and sounding very Dio-esque IMO.

He can also do soul, r&b (not really my thing, but he can sing it), and of course rock.

He's got a really strong and versatile voice, regardless of whether one thinks he's right for Journey.

I realize I'm kinda going off on a tangent here, but the metal singer stuff reminded me of the youtube clips.

I know Jeff has sung metal. He has sung alot of styles.
My point is, as soon as his inclusion into the band was announced, Monker made it his job to oppose him.
Saying stuff like, "Nope...Journey crossed with metal doesn't intererst me in the slightest."
If he wasn't saying that, he was denying TapeGate, or saying Neal could have fired Augeri at any given time.

None of what he said was accurate and resultingly, this website's moderator probably felt ZERO obligation to protect Monker when he was RIGHTLY taken to task for his misguided beliefs.

Andrew's only crime in this whole debacle has been consistantly siding with the truth.
Now people want to make that out to be 'bias'.

And, you're not seeing the bigger picture.

What you quoted above IS perfectly accurate and truthful, because that IS what I think is going to happen and I am NOT interested in it.

Andrew's 'crime', if YOU want to call it that, is allowing one sect of fans wack everybody else on the forum who dared have an opinion that disagreed with theirs. When I say 'wack', I mean attack the POSTER instead of what they said. Once that was not only allowed here, but DOMINATED the forum, this forum earned the reputation that it has and he along with it.

I tried to point that out over, and over, and over and over again. He didn't seem to want to listen, or hear of it. Now, today, he is disapointed that he has the reputation that this forum has given him and wants to change things.

Now there is another option for the people who have been wacked in this forum, or who are frustrated with BT. It seems to me that if people want to get away from the attitudes here, or the over-moderation of BT, they can try journeyforums.com.

It's as simple as that. Some people here are really starting to sound like another forum in the mix threatens this one. Don't know why...you guys have what you want here, do you not? Not even the moderators of BT seem to worry about i. If people don't like this or BT, what is wrong with having another option?

You have the balls to criticize Drew and this site, then use his board to shamelessly promote your new playground over and over again? A new low for you.

[Moon Beam]

Glad you handled that Niggy, I was
at a loss for something to say to him
without getting my slingshot out.

Monker I hope you fall smack dab in
love with someone who changes your
heart forever, cuz I think that's the only
way we could ever see another side of you.

[conversationpc]

When I look at this forum, right now - today, it reminds me SO much of BT. I'm not going to detail out why, I've explained it many times. With the exception of the "BACKTALK" subforum over there, I really have nothing to say there any longer. Not because I don't have anything to say, but because what I have to say will get me kicked off the forum.

The only difference, from my perspective, between BT and this forum is that I could post whatever I wanted without being kicked off. The trade-off is that I'll get the "whiney bitch" posts back at me. So what...I can deal with that. I have a thicker skin then most people here realize. So, that is the ONLY THING that kept me here - I could say what I wanted to say but couldn't at BT.

I love this MR forum because there are a lot of great people here, but I think Monker is partly right and some of the responses to this post seem to bear that out.

[NealIsGod]

I love this MR forum because there are a lot of great people here, but I think Monker is partly right and some of the responses to this post seem to bear that out.

Whose responses?

[conversationpc]

I love this MR forum because there are a lot of great people here, but I think Monker is partly right and some of the responses to this post seem to bear that out.

Whose responses?

Monker was talking about how users here gang up on people who are expressing their viewpoint and no sooner did he post that then people in this thread attacked him for it. Same thing that happens at BT, only with more freedom of speech. Like I said, there are a lot of cool people here including yourself, but sometimes the behavior here is just like what we hate about BT.

[NealIsGod]

I love this MR forum because there are a lot of great people here, but I think Monker is partly right and some of the responses to this post seem to bear that out.

Whose responses?

Monker was talking about how users here gang up on people who are expressing their viewpoint and no sooner did he post that then people in this thread attacked him for it. Same thing that happens at BT, only with more freedom of speech. Like I said, there are a lot of cool people here including yourself, but sometimes the behavior here is just like what we hate about BT.

Well, he expresses his opinion which happenes to go against 90% of other posters' opinions. Typical message board replies.

[conversationpc]

I love this MR forum because there are a lot of great people here, but I think Monker is partly right and some of the responses to this post seem to bear that out.

Whose responses?

Monker was talking about how users here gang up on people who are expressing their viewpoint and no sooner did he post that then people in this thread attacked him for it. Same thing that happens at BT, only with more freedom of speech. Like I said, there are a lot of cool people here including yourself, but sometimes the behavior here is just like what we hate about BT.

Well, he expresses his opinion which happenes to go against 90% of other posters' opinions. Typical message board replies.

Perhaps but sometimes when he posts something, it just seems like the mob mentality takes over instead of people actually posting a thoughtful response. I'm just sayin'...

[NealIsGod]

I love this MR forum because there are a lot of great people here, but I think Monker is partly right and some of the responses to this post seem to bear that out.

Whose responses?

Monker was talking about how users here gang up on people who are expressing their viewpoint and no sooner did he post that then people in this thread attacked him for it. Same thing that happens at BT, only with more freedom of speech. Like I said, there are a lot of cool people here including yourself, but sometimes the behavior here is just like what we hate about BT.

Well, he expresses his opinion which happenes to go against 90% of other posters' opinions. Typical message board replies.

Perhaps but sometimes when he posts something, it just seems like the mob mentality takes over instead of people actually posting a thoughtful response. I'm just sayin'...

Maybe so, but you have to ask yourself what he has done over the years to elicit that.

[Red13JoePa]

I gotta say, Journey crossed with metal sounds pretty good to me!

Agree...and I'll go further and state that when they're in rocking mode, be it the Perry or Augeri eras, don't they always swerve close to the metal area anyway? At LEAST hard rock.

JSS fits perfectly into that already-established part of the Journey repetoir

[conversationpc]

I gotta say, Journey crossed with metal sounds pretty good to me!

Agree...and I'll go further and state that when they're in rocking mode, be it the Perry or Augeri eras, don't they always swerve close to the metal area anyway? At LEAST hard rock.

JSS fits perfectly into that already-established part of the Journey repetoir

"Edge of the Blade", "Chain Reaction", "Separate Ways", "Lay it Down", "Keep on Runnin'", and others. I love the hard rockin' Journey stuff.

[AlienC]

WElll now, the same old refrain, now coming from a new direction.

Seems to bear out the notion that humans will band together in the pursuit of a common interest and then destroy it from within with factional infighting.

I can empathize with Andrew about this. It reminds me of my feelings towards the end over at JERkNEE Inc..

This need to dominate a conversation, topic, thread, whatever by some personalities will not be changed by anything other than a strong moderating force.
In the same way one would remove an offensive guest from a dinner party at one's own home.

The "rub" comes from the fact that there is zero accountability, on the part of the offenders, towards the rest of the group.
There is so little "real" human / personal interaction that personal responsibility for one's words often takes a back seat to theatrics and histrionics.

If one has fallen into the trap of dehumanizing the others with who one does not agree, it is very easy to dismiss, ridicule, call names and generally show one's ass towards another, all in the name of IntarweB Forum Supremacy. It is exactly the same tactic the military uses before sending troops into battle. It's much easier to kill someone after reducing their humanity to that below oneself.

GeezUS H KERIST! Get over yourself.

You all should be glad you have nothing to really lose by saying what is said here.
With the possible exception of some class and dignity.

But who needs that if they party with the band and have a band member's ear ? RIGHTTTTTTt.

I'll take Integrity for a Thousand , Alex.......

[NealIsGod]

I gotta say, Journey crossed with metal sounds pretty good to me!

Agree...and I'll go further and state that when they're in rocking mode, be it the Perry or Augeri eras, don't they always swerve close to the metal area anyway? At LEAST hard rock.

JSS fits perfectly into that already-established part of the Journey repetoir

"Edge of the Blade", "Chain Reaction", "Separate Ways", "Lay it Down", "Keep on Runnin'", and others. I love the hard rockin' Journey stuff.

Allow me, 13...

Don't forget Higher Place, World Gone Wild, Out of Harm's Way, In Self Defense...

[MartyMoffatt]

I love this MR forum because there are a lot of great people here, but I think Monker is partly right and some of the responses to this post seem to bear that out.

Whose responses?

Monker was talking about how users here gang up on people who are expressing their viewpoint and no sooner did he post that then people in this thread attacked him for it. Same thing that happens at BT, only with more freedom of speech. Like I said, there are a lot of cool people here including yourself, but sometimes the behavior here is just like what we hate about BT.

Well, he expresses his opinion which happenes to go against 90% of other posters' opinions. Typical message board replies.

Perhaps but sometimes when he posts something, it just seems like the mob mentality takes over instead of people actually posting a thoughtful response. I'm just sayin'...

Maybe so, but you have to ask yourself what he has done over the years to elicit that.

I have to agree with Monker and Conversation Piece here. I don't see anything wrong with Monker's original post. It wasn't nasty or vindictive. If you don't agree with what he say's here that's one thing, but if you're always going to bring up past baggage and judge someone based purely on past misdemeanours then... what the hell are you supporting a band like Journey for?

Marty

[Red13JoePa]

I gotta say, Journey crossed with metal sounds pretty good to me!

Agree...and I'll go further and state that when they're in rocking mode, be it the Perry or Augeri eras, don't they always swerve close to the metal area anyway? At LEAST hard rock.

JSS fits perfectly into that already-established part of the Journey repetoir

"Edge of the Blade", "Chain Reaction", "Separate Ways", "Lay it Down", "Keep on Runnin'", and others. I love the hard rockin' Journey stuff.

Allow me, 13...

Don't forget Higher Place, World Gone Wild, Out of Harm's Way, In Self Defense...

Indeedio. Look forward to Jeff tackling OOHW one day. I think stuff like that, The Time, Backtalk, Keep On Running, Lay It Down are right down JSS' street

[NealIsGod]

Lay It Down

YES! Resurrect that kick ass tune.