Moderator: Andrew
roknroseville wrote:I agree with you..
Oh yeah carlitto fartlitto? whatever your name is ...
learn how to prononce your words better
it's rok n rose ville...... easy as 123...
Try it a few times & maybe you'll get the hang of it...
I didn't know they let people under 18 on the forum..
Jeremey wrote:Red13JoePa wrote:
I'm figuring that as the sound guy he did what he was told with the carte blanche to use his expert ear to know when to turn Steve down and the tape up.
That's the exact point I'm making - Not putting blame on Kevin, only saying that he was likely the only one who knew just how much was live and how much was tape feed.
stevew2 wrote:Jeremey wrote:Red13JoePa wrote:
You do have a good point if anyone could help pull it off,it would be Kevin,he was with Journey,a long time ago. I hope he is not running the board on the next tour. I wouldnt trust him anymore{as a fan}
Red13JoePa wrote:stevew2 wrote:Jeremey wrote:Red13JoePa wrote:
You do have a good point if anyone could help pull it off,it would be Kevin,he was with Journey,a long time ago. I hope he is not running the board on the next tour. I wouldnt trust him anymore{as a fan}
Hold it, with JSS that is a moot point now right? Kevin Elson's not supposed to be doing dual duties now, mixing the sound and flipping the switch anymore.
The guy's been with the band forever, produced their best records and there is a comfort level with that professional relationship. Frankly I'd be pissed if he had to pay the ultimate price and hope the hell he produces the next album. To me he's the anti-Shirley.
Jeremey wrote:I believe he had the ad lib parts worked out well in advance - In that it's pretty tough to come up with new exciting ad lib parts year after year
AlienC wrote:Given that you've taken the whole comment out of context, I couldn't care less what you choose to misconstrue.
Of course there would be some "working it out" , since there were more than one member of crew operating the damn things, I fail to see the significance in any of this.
Hell, In Paul Anka's show, god help you if the film was running slow and Paul was out of synch with the damn things. wouldn't be his fault.
AlienC wrote:That it took you all as long to figure it out is a testament to the notion that it really is a disconnect with reality that allows this sort of thing to occur in front of your face.
I bolded the point that I was responding to, and I stand by it. I NEVER said it was anyone ONLY and to jump to such a conclusion is on you.
AlienC wrote:You're splitting hairs in a head chopping contest.
AlienC wrote:
So, if you've been waiting to drop that"disgruntled ex-employee " bomb, I hope you've gotten it off your chest. It shows that is the filter that you read my words through. Further it reveals that you have prejudiced yourself against me through that simple shift in perception based on your own bias.
I'm sticking up for SA because it's the right thing to do when he's getting rat-packed.
but hey, I'll be willing to bet it's yesterdays news to 99.5% of the rest of the world.
The_Noble_Cause wrote:And like every other Journey fan with their back up against the wall trying to defend the indefensible you are resorting to wafer thin musical comparisons.
FUCK Britney Spears.
FUCK N’Sync.
FUCK Toto
And FUCK Paul Anka!
FUCK every artist out their raping their fans wallets right from under them, for that matter.
This is Journey, goddamn’t!
Have you no self-respect as a fan?
Perry didn’t set the vocal bar high so every subsequent vocalist can come along and take a fireman’s axe straight to it.
.
The_Noble_Cause wrote:Jeremey wrote:I believe he had the ad lib parts worked out well in advance - In that it's pretty tough to come up with new exciting ad lib parts year after year
Real ad-libs are, in some cases, spontaneous. You can't anticipate them.
Oh sure, there are some ad-libs you can set your watch to.
Think Perry shouting out a city's name in place of "South Detroit" in DSB.
However, in '05, the ad-libs were contained to certain key moments which never fluctuated.
I don't think it was a case of Elson simply knowing Augeri's on-stage antics.
I think it was a case of deliberate collusion between Elson and Steve.
I belive Augeri knew when he was *on* and when tape had his back.
As several Augeri diehards confided, the difference in Augeri's on-stage persona in '05 was striking.
For a singer known for his ability to touch people, he became a by-rote automaton.
I'm not hoisting sole blame on Steve's crestfallen shoulders. I've said a million times that this band is a bunch of fly-by-night souless grifters.
However, for me, Steve deserves the most blame.
He willingly perpetrated a fraud on the time-tested and loyal hearted Journey fans - many of whom were skeptical to give him a chance to begin with.
I'll keep an eye out for an apology in the liner notes of "In the Moment".
[b]I've said a million times that this band is a bunch of fly-by-night souless grifters. [b]
The_Noble_Cause wrote:Tsk, tsk…only one quote into your post and you’ve already resorted to deception.
There was no encompassing text of YOURS to be quoted.
You were quoted in full. Quit lying.
The_Noble_Cause wrote:
You’re waffling.
You emphatically agreed (with Jeremy) that Augeri couldn’t possibly know what was being sent to the FOH.
Well then, how did Augeri know to ad-lib ONLY at those few specific moments when the tape was off?
How did he know, for example, that there was a mid-section of FITH that wasn't tape? Hmm?
The_Noble_Cause wrote:
And like every other Journey fan with their back up against the wall trying to defend the indefensible you are resorting to wafer thin musical comparisons.
FUCK Britney Spears.
FUCK N’Sync.
FUCK Toto
And FUCK Paul Anka!
FUCK every artist out their raping their fans wallets right from under them, for that matter.
This is Journey, goddamn’t!
Have you no self-respect as a fan?
Perry didn’t set the vocal bar high so every subsequent vocalist can come along and take a fireman’s axe straight to it.
AlienC wrote:That it took you all as long to figure it out is a testament to the notion that it really is a disconnect with reality that allows this sort of thing to occur in front of your face.
The_Noble_Cause wrote:The 2005 “Generations” tour was the first tour where EVERY night involved an overwhelming majority of fakery. In prior tours, high notes had sometimes been tape, an occasional song here and there was tape. Much, much less conspicuous. Considering Deano and others had figured out the con before the US tour was over, I’d say that’s pretty damn good.
AlienC wrote:I bolded the point that I was responding to, and I stand by it. I NEVER said it was anyone ONLY and to jump to such a conclusion is on you.
What you bolded states that Augeri didn’t know what was coming out at the FOH. That may have been so in ’04 where usually only brief rough segments or high notes where supplanted by tape.
But in ’05, where Augeri held the mic in an ice-cold death grip to his face and ensured his lips matched every word, that would have been impossible.
You may have worked for the band at some point, but you don’t know everything.
And when it comes to TapeGate I think you know less than most.
The_Noble_Cause wrote:
Yeah, yeah, and I bet in my break time I eat a $hit $andwhich
AlienC wrote:
So, if you've been waiting to drop that"disgruntled ex-employee " bomb, I hope you've gotten it off your chest. It shows that is the filter that you read my words through. Further it reveals that you have prejudiced yourself against me through that simple shift in perception based on your own bias.
The_Noble_Cause wrote:It’s not a “bomb”. And it’s not predisposed bias, either.
It's an observation.
As I already mentioned, I contacted Andrew and suggested tracking you down and getting your comments on TapeGate - specifically because of your reputation as an honest objective guy.
However, since coming here, your posts have taken a turn to the dark side.
You seem to have a perennial chip on your shoulder.
Even in this very thread there is a palpable sense of hostility; as if everyone is your enemy.
I guess waiting all day in line for your unemployment check will do that to a man.
Tell me something, do you have a case of the Easy Mac blues?
The_Noble_Cause wrote:That’s all well and good, but most of the discussion in this thread was even-handed.
There was even praise for Augeri’s quality of being “…always approachable to fans.”
You’re defending Steve come hell or high water, the facts be damned.
You're a part of the insensible "Neal-is-the-Devil" rabble now.
The_Noble_Cause wrote:
It was never news to 99.5% of the world in the first place.
The news spread and did its damage only where it matters most: the music ‘biz and even more important, the fans.
ohsherrie wrote:AlienC wrote:I specifically remember the conversations about "it" with him.
So his voice was shot even before you left?
Carlitto H@kk wrote:Ok, I have been trying to weed thru all these comments,
and there are some really good ones aside from RokenBlowsville's rants,
and I am left with one burning question in regards to the
different mixes the band used and who 'really' knew how many
'canned tracks' were being used.
I truly believe the TG stuff and could really care less who is to blame.
I am just happy the band decided to finally part ways with
a singer whose touring endurance has been in question for years
and whose writing talents were medicore.
I apologize in advance if this is long but bear with me...
Some people have alluded to the idea that the rest of the
band wasn't aware of how much was "live" and how much
were the "canned tracks".
My question is in regards to the Band's Ear Monitors.
If the "canned tracks" were being used a majority of the time
then what was the rest of the band getting in their ear monitors?
1. They were all getting the same vocal feed that the PA's were pumping and
"honestly" thought that Augeri was nailing it night after night.
2. They were getting Augeri's actual "live" feed and somehow managed
to get thru each show with a straight face and were content to, in their beliefs,
allow their audiences to sit thru those horrendous performances.
3. They actually didn't have ANY lead vocals in their Ear Monitors and just
heard what they could from the PA's
Was it any of those 3 scenarios or was it something I hadn't thought of???
If it was the first then, sure, they all knew what was going on. There's no way
that they believed Augeri was sounding that good.
If it were the second scenario then these guys got some big balls being
content to give their fans that rubbish. And if it were the third, again,
I have to believe that they all knew what was up. Especially Deen...
You don't think that he was wondering who the new guy was sitting behind
him all night long???
Again, I could care less who knew. It was a bad call by a band that probably thought
they had no other alternative and knows that touring is their bread & butter.
Not to mention that, after all these yers, I'm sure they couldn't fathom
starting over at the time.
I'd be willing to wager that, if this all would've stayed hush-hush, this past summer's
tour with DL would've been Journey's last pending Perry and Smitty giving it
one more go-around.
Thank God Jeff stepped in when he did and lit a new fire under the Band and Management's
collective asses! You KNOW we have some killer material to look forward to when fuckin' Friga
is fired up and looking forward to getting back to the studio!
Thanks for your patience and I hope someone can answer for me
Jeremey wrote:Paul Anka - What a guy! He cuts like a hammer....Did you ever get any of the famous "The band gets shirts!!" tirades, Allen?
Carlitto H@kk wrote:Dude, in-between all the hysterical back-&-forth exchanges
of TNC and you, I posted this question I had...
Have any insight???Carlitto H@kk wrote:Ok, I have been trying to weed thru all these comments,
and there are some really good ones aside from RokenBlowsville's rants,
and I am left with one burning question in regards to the
different mixes the band used and who 'really' knew how many
'canned tracks' were being used.
I truly believe the TG stuff and could really care less who is to blame.
I am just happy the band decided to finally part ways with
a singer whose touring endurance has been in question for years
and whose writing talents were medicore.
I apologize in advance if this is long but bear with me...
Some people have alluded to the idea that the rest of the
band wasn't aware of how much was "live" and how much
were the "canned tracks".
My question is in regards to the Band's Ear Monitors.
If the "canned tracks" were being used a majority of the time
then what was the rest of the band getting in their ear monitors?
1. They were all getting the same vocal feed that the PA's were pumping and
"honestly" thought that Augeri was nailing it night after night.
2. They were getting Augeri's actual "live" feed and somehow managed
to get thru each show with a straight face and were content to, in their beliefs,
allow their audiences to sit thru those horrendous performances.
3. They actually didn't have ANY lead vocals in their Ear Monitors and just
heard what they could from the PA's
Was it any of those 3 scenarios or was it something I hadn't thought of???
If it was the first then, sure, they all knew what was going on. There's no way
that they believed Augeri was sounding that good.
If it were the second scenario then these guys got some big balls being
content to give their fans that rubbish. And if it were the third, again,
I have to believe that they all knew what was up. Especially Deen...
You don't think that he was wondering who the new guy was sitting behind
him all night long???
Again, I could care less who knew. It was a bad call by a band that probably thought
they had no other alternative and knows that touring is their bread & butter.
Not to mention that, after all these yers, I'm sure they couldn't fathom
starting over at the time.
I'd be willing to wager that, if this all would've stayed hush-hush, this past summer's
tour with DL would've been Journey's last pending Perry and Smitty giving it
one more go-around.
Thank God Jeff stepped in when he did and lit a new fire under the Band and Management's
collective asses! You KNOW we have some killer material to look forward to when fuckin' Friga
is fired up and looking forward to getting back to the studio!
Thanks for your patience and I hope someone can answer for me
AlienC wrote:I don't disagree with anything you've said here, save the blaming Steve the most. The blame is at the top, where it originated from.
AlienC wrote:
Seems like you have your own disgruntlement issues to work out
Hope that works out for you.
The_Noble_Cause wrote:So Steve doesn't possess free will, eh?
You make it sound like he was Neal and Jon's jailhouse bitch.
Next you'll tell me he had no choice but to allow them to use his mouth as a bird-bath; meritoriously dunking their respective applesacks during the course of each night's post-show festivities.
You are clearly a water-carrying apologist.
AlienC wrote:Seems like you have your own disgruntlement issues to work out
Hope that works out for you.
The_Noble_Cause wrote: Shouldn't you be getting on?
The local "Y" is set to close any minute and you've yet to secure your cot for the evening.
AlienC wrote:And exactly the sort of bullshit that keeps people from interacting in this part of the site more than is the case.
AR wrote:Holy shit, I just read this.
Let's look at it this way:
Steve Perry was a freakish talent. Unreal. He got old and strange and likes to play with cats and says stupid things. God bless him.
Steve Augeri was a decent singer put in a crazy position. Erase 2005. Remember the dude for allowing drunks like me to sing Don't Stop Believing off key at ampitheaters for the last 8 years.![]()
RockinDeano was right.
Without JSS - Journey would be DEAD. If you like the band, this is the best possible end to a strange situation
Stop bitching and just enjoy.
....you sure have a way of phrasing things, ED!AR wrote:Holy shit, I just read this.
Let's look at it this way:
Steve Perry was a freakish talent. Unreal. He got old and strange and likes to play with cats and says stupid things. God bless him.
Steve Augeri was a decent singer put in a crazy position. Erase 2005. Remember the dude for allowing drunks like me to sing Don't Stop Believing off key at ampitheaters for the last 8 years.![]()
RockinDeano was right.
Without JSS - Journey would be DEAD. If you like the band, this is the best possible end to a strange situation
Stop bitching and just enjoy.
The_Noble_Cause wrote:This was posted once before.
I'm glad you brought it up.
There is actually a line in this interview where Augeri thanks the fans for sticking with him through good nights and bad during the '05 tour. One of the few cases where the band can be witnessed actually covering up their fraud.
Knowing perfectly well it was the IDENTICAL pre-recorded vocal track being pumped out to the speakers nightly, Augeri went on to shamelessly say...
" listen this has been the craziest year we’ve done, and by the end of the tour which is December 12th I believe, we’ll have done 80 shows and this is just ludicrous. So, I have had my share of good nights and bad nights, and I thank the fans for sitting through, you know, sweating the bad nights out with me as well as the good nights."
Ross also mentioned that Augeri was doing a great job on the catalog during the taped Generations tour.
Neal, on the other hand, was smart enough to backpedal in his interviews.
Going so far as to say at one point "no, he isn't Steve Perry" in an interview leading up to the UK tour.
NealIsGod wrote:AlienC wrote:And exactly the sort of bullshit that keeps people from interacting in this part of the site more than is the case.
I dunno about that. TNC and I have gone to battle a couple of times, but he is one of the few posters that I ALWAYS read when I see a post. Nobody can craft a post like Noble.
bionic wrote:The_Noble_Cause wrote:This was posted once before.
I'm glad you brought it up.
There is actually a line in this interview where Augeri thanks the fans for sticking with him through good nights and bad during the '05 tour. One of the few cases where the band can be witnessed actually covering up their fraud.
Knowing perfectly well it was the IDENTICAL pre-recorded vocal track being pumped out to the speakers nightly, Augeri went on to shamelessly say...
" listen this has been the craziest year we’ve done, and by the end of the tour which is December 12th I believe, we’ll have done 80 shows and this is just ludicrous. So, I have had my share of good nights and bad nights, and I thank the fans for sitting through, you know, sweating the bad nights out with me as well as the good nights."
Ross also mentioned that Augeri was doing a great job on the catalog during the taped Generations tour.
Neal, on the other hand, was smart enough to backpedal in his interviews.
Going so far as to say at one point "no, he isn't Steve Perry" in an interview leading up to the UK tour.
What really showed how bad his voice must have got is the fact that he could not even handle the Generations material live!
Red13JoePa wrote:NealIsGod wrote:AlienC wrote:And exactly the sort of bullshit that keeps people from interacting in this part of the site more than is the case.
I dunno about that. TNC and I have gone to battle a couple of times, but he is one of the few posters that I ALWAYS read when I see a post. Nobody can craft a post like Noble.
I agree, I never pass over a TNC or Deano post without reading but to Allen's point, about INTERACTING, I think some lurkers/would-be posters might find them otherwise too intimidating to come in which is a shame and their loss b/c nothing said here can hurt unless ya allow it to.
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