Herbie Herbert

[Moon Beam]

Nope, not to me Dean'o I was agreeing that none of
us are Saint's, you decided to leave that lil part out though.
Don't play me for a fool.

Not playing you for a fool at all. However, how can you say that you don't judge people on heresay, but yet you formed an opinion? What?

I'll just leave it at what I've said, doesn't really matter anyway.

[Rockindeano]

And you cannot possibly KNOW what were Steve's intentions or what really happened,so your point is moot aussi.

I have heard it with my own ears, without giving up names. I DO Know. I don't type stuff out without verifying or KNOWING what I am writing.

[*Laura]

And you cannot possibly KNOW what were Steve's intentions or what really happened,so your point is moot aussi.

I have heard it with my own ears, without giving up names. I DO Know. I don't type stuff out without verifting or KNOWING what I am writing.

Oh,ok,whatever.I guess it's better to leave it at what everyone had heard with their own ears.

Anyway,the issue wasn't if SP wanted to tour or not(until solid proof is presented,it's going to be just a speculation),but why HH was ousted from the reunion formula.
IMO,SP and HH had too much bitterness built up between them,not to mention the who-is-going-to-be-in-charge thingy,so I guess that working together was not an option.

[Rockindeano]

Oh,ok,whatever.I guess it's better to leave it at what everyone had heard with their own ears.

No. Not "whatever." I heard with my own ears. You have no clue, so you might want to apologize. Just because you are lacking information, yet are trying to argue, you just can't pull out the "whatever" card.

Anyway,the issue wasn't if SP wanted to tour or not(until solid proof is presented,it's going to be just a speculation),but why HH was ousted from the reunion formula.

Way to spin out of this. SP did NOT have any intention of touring, period.

IMO,SP and HH had too much bitterness built up between them,not to mention the who-is-going-to-be-in-charge thingy,so I guess that working together was not an option.

Forget HH and SP. Neal had friction with Perry too. I see a common denominator here.

Money can cure friction. It is the ultimate lubrication.

[JeremyP]

I have heard it with my own ears, without giving up names. I DO Know. I don't type stuff out without verifting or KNOWING what I am writing.

Re: GUFF & Steve Perry - I Can See It In Your Eyes

Genius, it is NOT a new song. Been out from Journey since 83.

No, It was written in rehersal in Oakland prior to recording TBF. Definately NOT 1983.

Hey, I'm about to upload an mp3 to the "Augeri fans" thread that I think proves that the first verse of Faithfully from Manchester was live. {At least it's not from Vegas, of that I'm sure.) Not that it matters, but anyway....

Give it a listen and then get back to me ok?

[*Laura]

Oh,ok,whatever.I guess it's better to leave it at what everyone had heard with their own ears.

No. Not "whatever." I heard with my own ears. You have no clue, so you might want to apologize. Just because you are lacking information, yet are trying to argue, you just can't pull out the "whatever" card.

Anyway,the issue wasn't if SP wanted to tour or not(until solid proof is presented,it's going to be just a speculation),but why HH was ousted from the reunion formula.

Way to spin out of this. SP did NOT have any intention of touring, period.

IMO,SP and HH had too much bitterness built up between them,not to mention the who-is-going-to-be-in-charge thingy,so I guess that working together was not an option.

Forget HH and SP. Neal had friction with Perry too. I see a common denominator here.

Money can cure friction. It is the ultimate lubrication.

Not trying to argue at all.
You have no idea what I know.
Not going to apologize just because the things that I know contradict the things that you know.

Perry is the common denominator,sure.The whole reunion stood on his shoulders.
Actually,the alternative name of this band is "Friction",from the beginning of their succesful existence.

I agree with the last line,tho.Money was/is the cure.It's showbiz after all.
Herbie must've been really pissed that he couldn't have a piece of the 1998 pie.

[The Fly]

Oh,ok,whatever.I guess it's better to leave it at what everyone had heard with their own ears.

No. Not "whatever." I heard with my own ears. You have no clue, so you might want to apologize. Just because you are lacking information, yet are trying to argue, you just can't pull out the "whatever" card.

Anyway,the issue wasn't if SP wanted to tour or not(until solid proof is presented,it's going to be just a speculation),but why HH was ousted from the reunion formula.

Way to spin out of this. SP did NOT have any intention of touring, period.

IMO,SP and HH had too much bitterness built up between them,not to mention the who-is-going-to-be-in-charge thingy,so I guess that working together was not an option.

Forget HH and SP. Neal had friction with Perry too. I see a common denominator here.

Money can cure friction. It is the ultimate lubrication.

Bingo!! Perry had completely taken over control. He didn't want Herbie, Neal or anyone telling him what to do at this point. TBF IMHO sounds like a Perry album with Journey backing him. Steve was "the voice" and could do whatever he wanted. Because just being involved, he brought in the BIG money. I can only wonder how "Journey" history would have been different if he didn't return for TBF.

[The Fly]

Oh,ok,whatever.I guess it's better to leave it at what everyone had heard with their own ears.

No. Not "whatever." I heard with my own ears. You have no clue, so you might want to apologize. Just because you are lacking information, yet are trying to argue, you just can't pull out the "whatever" card.

Anyway,the issue wasn't if SP wanted to tour or not(until solid proof is presented,it's going to be just a speculation),but why HH was ousted from the reunion formula.

Way to spin out of this. SP did NOT have any intention of touring, period.

IMO,SP and HH had too much bitterness built up between them,not to mention the who-is-going-to-be-in-charge thingy,so I guess that working together was not an option.

Forget HH and SP. Neal had friction with Perry too. I see a common denominator here.

Money can cure friction. It is the ultimate lubrication.

Not trying to argue at all.
You have no idea what I know.
Not going to apologize just because the things that I know contradict the things that you know.

Perry is the common denominator,sure.The whole reunion stood on his shoulders.
Actually,the alternative name of this band is "Friction",from the beginning of their succesful existence.

I agree with the last line,tho.Money was/is the cure.It's showbiz after all.
Herbie must've been really pissed that he couldn't have a piece of the 1998 pie.

I don't think Herbie needs any money. That's why he's retired. He doesn't have to work and is enjoying the fruits of his labor.

[Rockindeano]

You have no idea what I know.
Not going to apologize just because the things that I know contradict the things that you know.

See, I don't think you know anything of substance. Had you, you would have put it in your book. Right? However, I didn't see anything in that book that wasn't told before to the masses. Come on Laura, shock me with something. Give me something I never heard of before. No, not Perry's birthplace, Neals middle name, or the name of the original production company for Journey. I want to hear of something NEW, that I already do not know. Come on, surprise me.

[*Laura]

I don't think Herbie needs any money. That's why he's retired. He doesn't have to work and is enjoying the fruits of his labor.

Would you refuse a sheeeetload of money,just because your bank account is full?
HH was a (show)business man,his principle was "the more money I get, the better".

He may be retired now,but I bet that everytime he hears SP's name he remembers the money he didn't get because of him.LOL

[Rockindeano]

He may be retired now,but I bet that everytime he hears SP's name he remembers the money he didn't get because of him.LOL

Yep. I agree. But it's a double edged sword. Perry made him a billionaire too.

[NealIsGod]

He may be retired now,but I bet that everytime he hears SP's name he remembers the money he didn't get because of him.LOL

Yep. I agree. But it's a double edged sword. Perry made him a billionaire too.

Billionaire? You sure? Not doubting, just asking.

[*Laura]

You have no idea what I know.
Not going to apologize just because the things that I know contradict the things that you know.

See, I don't think you know anything of substance. Had you, you would have put it in your book. Right? However, I didn't see anything in that book that wasn't told before to the masses. Come on Laura, shock me with something. Give me something I never heard of before. No, not Perry's birthplace, Neals middle name, or the name of the original production company for Journey. I want to hear of something NEW, that I already do not know. Come on, surprise me.

Look,for the millionth time,my book was NOT going to contain any controversy,rumour,speculation,etc.,as it was based on the public statements of Perry.The inside info and the hearsay are subjects for another type of book and I am not going to write such a book.

If you are ready to be sued and dragged through all hell,go ahead.

[The Fly]

I don't think Herbie needs any money. That's why he's retired. He doesn't have to work and is enjoying the fruits of his labor.

Would you refuse a sheeeetload of money,just because your bank account is full?
HH was a (show)business man,his principle was "the more money I get, the better".

He may be retired now,but I bet that everytime he hears SP's name he remembers the money he didn't get because of him.LOL

Good point. But I think he's just fine.

[Rockindeano]

be sued and dragged through all hell,go ahead.

Oh I am going to say "yes" just to see this circus. Go ahead, sue me. On what grounds? A Romanian MR poster trying to sue a guy in America speaking his mind. This ought to be good. Stop making threats.

[*Laura]

be sued and dragged through all hell,go ahead.

Oh I am going to say "yes" just to see this circus. Go ahead, sue me. On what grounds? A Romanian MR poster trying to sue a guy in America speaking his mind. This ought to be good. Stop making threats.

Jesus Christ.
I was reffering to the fact that if YOU want to write an inside info book about Perry ( or Journey) without their permission,you would get sued.

[Rockindeano]

be sued and dragged through all hell,go ahead.

Oh I am going to say "yes" just to see this circus. Go ahead, sue me. On what grounds? A Romanian MR poster trying to sue a guy in America speaking his mind. This ought to be good. Stop making threats.

Jesus Christ.
I was reffering to the fact that if YOU want to write an inside info book about Perry ( or Journey) without their permission,you would get sued.

Actually, No, I wouldn't, UNLESS it was incorrect data. I would obviously have to investigate and interview certain people that DO know and who would GO on record. Herbie would be an obvious player.

By the way, Neal has a book coming out this year. That will be a doozy.

[*Laura]

I would obviously have to investigate and interview certain people that DO know and who would GO on record. Herbie would be an obvious player.

It's the only sane way to put together something like that.Still,the risk would be there.

By the way, Neal has a book coming out this year.

Any idea when?

[Saint John]

The notion of removing Perry from the band at any point is ridiculous. Like it or not, if you want stadium tours and megabucks, he's the only member that counts. Remember, promoters were ONLY interested in a Perry-fronted Journey. Without him, it's medium sized venues, Def Leppard's coattails and several thousand stinky Euros. Hindsight is 20/20, but as it relates to the risk-reward relationship, Perry will ALWAYS be welcomed back at ANY time. Journey will be a top grossing act IF he ever decides to return. That incarnation of Journey is simply too deeply embedded in so many people's hearts, minds and memories. And if he does decide to come back I'll be fucking bankrupt. Although his career was relatively short compared to some artists, it doesn't change the fact that STEVE PERRY IS THE GREATEST VOCALIST OF ALL-TIME. In his prime, no one comes close......no one.

[Sassie]

I agree

[Rockindeano]

The notion of removing Perry from the band at any point is ridiculous. Like it or not, if you want stadium tours and megabucks, he's the only member that counts. Remember, promoters were ONLY interested in a Perry-fronted Journey. Without him, it's medium sized venues, Def Leppard's coattails and several thousand stinky Euros. Hindsight is 20/20, but as it relates to the risk-reward relationship, Perry will ALWAYS be welcomed back at ANY time. Journey will be a top grossing act IF he ever decides to return. That incarnation of Journey is simply too deeply embedded in so many people's hearts, minds and memories. And if he does decide to come back I'll be fucking bankrupt. Although his career was relatively short compared to some artists, it doesn't change the fact that STEVE PERRY IS THE GREATEST VOCALIST OF ALL-TIME. In his prime, no one comes close......no one.

No not quite.

Look, Herbie knew Perry was going to undercut them, Neal and Jon didn't listen to him. Herbie was right to want to replace Perry after ROR. In hindsight, he(they) should have. Who knows where they would be right now if they had say Soto in the band for 20 years. I would imagine a Helluva lot more popular than riding Lippards coattails and playing in front of smelly Euros. That's why Herbie was jettisoned.

Saint John, there has got to be a balance. Steve Perry is the fucking best of all time, but exactly what good does he do you if he isn't going to sing, standing on the sidelines?

I am not so sure Perry will always be welcomed back now. Things are different now.

[cookieduster]

Well said St. John.

[The Fly]

The notion of removing Perry from the band at any point is ridiculous. Like it or not, if you want stadium tours and megabucks, he's the only member that counts. Remember, promoters were ONLY interested in a Perry-fronted Journey. Without him, it's medium sized venues, Def Leppard's coattails and several thousand stinky Euros. Hindsight is 20/20, but as it relates to the risk-reward relationship, Perry will ALWAYS be welcomed back at ANY time. Journey will be a top grossing act IF he ever decides to return. That incarnation of Journey is simply too deeply embedded in so many people's hearts, minds and memories. And if he does decide to come back I'll be fucking bankrupt. Although his career was relatively short compared to some artists, it doesn't change the fact that STEVE PERRY IS THE GREATEST VOCALIST OF ALL-TIME. In his prime, no one comes close......no one.

No not quite.

Look, Herbie knew Perry was going to undercut them, Neal and Jon didn't listen to him. Herbie was right to want to replace Perry after ROR. In hindsight, he(they) should have. Who knows where they would be right now if they had say Soto in the band for 20 years. I would imagine a Helluva lot more popular than riding Lippards coattails and playing in front of smelly Euros. That's why Herbie was jettisoned.

Saint John, there has got to be a balance. Steve Perry is the fucking best of all time, but exactly what good does he do you if he isn't going to sing, standing on the sidelines?

I am not so sure Perry will always be welcomed back now. Things are different now.

I would have given anything to hear what they would have sounded like with Chalfant. He was in the band (with Herbie's endorsement) until Perry came back for TBF. He can sing those songs better than even Perry can now. That means today people. Flame if you like but it's true. Perry doesn't have the range he used to. If they had put Chalfant in back after ROR who knows how big they could have stayed. IMHO he's the only one that can compare to Perry in his prime.

[Matthew]

IMHO he's the only one that can compare to Perry in his prime.

Chalfant's good...but let's not get carried away.

[The Fly]

IMHO he's the only one that can compare to Perry in his prime.

Chalfant's good...but let's not get carried away.

Have you ever heard him sing Journey songs? Name someone that can sing it better.... Someone that has not been in the band. As much as I liked Perry before he took over the band and lost range? I have never thought of him in the godly way many do. A great one indeed but I never thought he was the best ever. JMO. To me that's getting carried away.

[fredinator]

Dean, when Neal writes his book, will he be able to shed any light on any of these controversial things that we care about? Not even dirt, just a few facts about what happened in 1986 and beyond? Has the gag order expired or anything? I'm sure it would still be a good book even if he skirted certain things but a lot of us would still be wondering. Most people in the world don't care what happened, but we in Journeyworld do, I think. Would he even be able to mention Steve at all? (I wish I could hang around for your answer if you decide to answer but I have to go to work...)

[whocares]

Egos abounded in this band. That was there downfall.

As is the case with many bands other than Journey, breaking up. Therefore, you and Shania are both right, Ego's, Money & Women are the biggest reasons why bands and managers go their (pardon the pun) Seperate Ways.

[Rockindeano]

Egos abounded in this band. That was there downfall.

As is the case with many bands other than Journey, breaking up. Therefore, you and Shania are both right, Ego's, Money & Women are the biggest reasons why bands and managers go their (pardon the pun) Seperate Ways.

You're half right. I am right, Shania isn't. She gravytrained me.

[Matthew]

Have you ever heard him sing Journey songs? Name someone that can sing it better....

Sure. He's King of the Tribute Singers. I'll give him that....

As much as I liked Perry before he took over the band and lost range?

The range is plenty high enough on ROR and Perry's voice grew in stature, maturity and soul as the years went by.

I have never thought of him in the godly way many do. A great one indeed but I never thought he was the best ever. JMO. To me that's getting carried away.

I guess I have maybe got a little bit carried away at times....

[Classic Rock]

By the way, Neal has a book coming out this year. That will be a doozy.

Deano, is the following not applicable anymore or was it ever true?

all the other guys signed agreements that were so onerous and egregious as to not only can they not ever make a disparaging comment towards Steve Perry, but they are prohibited from writing autobiographies, authorizing biographies, participating in any way in an unauthorized biography.