Poll:What do you want from Steve Perry?

[Jeremey]

Whatever they worked on before Perry came in (Freedom material) was scrapped. Cain may have worked up a bit of that fluff before Perry came in.

I wonder about that. Do you think there was any worthwhile material that didn't make it on ROR? Or any really strong material that was scrapped in favor of, say, "Once You Love Somebody?" The 2 tracks "With A Tear" and the other one that were on Time3 I know were worked up by Perry as well, I've heard somewhere a recording of Perry scat singing along with the demo of "With A Tear." Sounded to me like something Cain and Schon worked up together but it didn't come together for ROR.

I think it was as much of a "group" effort between the three as you would think - The endless delays and oddball circumstances of the record's production seem more related to Perry's ongoing personal crises than any artistic differences from the 3...

[NoMoreTails]

I think Schon and Cain agreed with Perry producing ROR,exactly because he did a great job with Street Talk.Platinum.
As for the control part,sure,that's a producer's job.

I think that was a condition of his returning to the band at all.

[I agree the sound is different,but that was always something that the band did.I clearly remember Schon saying that they loved trying different things with each album,so I guess with Perry's input as a producer,it was a more commercial album.
ROR stands out exactly because it's an exception to the Journey rule.However,it IS Journey at the very core. .

NIG handled this issue very well, previously the band had progressed into new areas and had grown in a positive way, not here. After trying to convince people that Journey was a ROCK band after the success of Open Arms and Faithfully, this one made it embarassing that your friends knew you were a Journey fan.
"Journey at its very core" WTF??? Maybe Perry to the core. It bares little resemblance to anything I consider Journey, other than Perry pimping out Jon and Neal, to paraphrase Herbie.

Any song credited with all three writers is practically just done as a formality as Schon couldn't have had much creative input.

[HOW do you know that?You cannot possibly have an idea how much each of them contributed to the songs.I can feel all 3 of them when I listen to the songs,thier signature is there.

Neal's signature soloing, though stiffled, is there, his influence in the song writing is largely missing. Where's the edge of his writing from all the other albums? Throughout Journey's catalog, its easy to tell which songs were based on Neal's riffs.

[NoMoreTails]

Whatever they worked on before Perry came in (Freedom material) was scrapped. Cain may have worked up a bit of that fluff before Perry came in.

I wonder about that. Do you think there was any worthwhile material that didn't make it on ROR? ...

I'm thinking Herbie or Neal may have made reference at some point to scrapping material and going in the ROR direction, but that's an impresion from long ago that I have no evidence of, all I'm aware of is the two you mention. I think reference has been made to Neal binge drinking and not being that involved.

[Red13JoePa]

A book to devour would be one undertaken, researched and written by an independent 3rd party based on current interviews with all involved members of the band including management and studio personnel.
It should a full volume on Raised On Radio, the making of.

I'd blow through that in 1 sitting.

[Jeremey]

A book to devour would be one undertaken, researched and written by an independent 3rd party based on current interviews with all involved members of the band including management and studio personnel.
It should a full volume on Raised On Radio, the making of.

I'd blow through that in 1 sitting.

That would be an awesome book. It could never be written, based on the legal ramifications of whatever gag order-type shit those associated with it were involved in. I like the point that the writer makes in the Time3 book about Huey Lewis & The News going into the studio next door and recording "Fore!" or whatever record it was and having it chart in a shorter time frame than it took Journey to finish ROR. Another cool anecdote is the helicopter Perry had on stand by due to his mother's illness.

[NealIsGod]

A book to devour would be one undertaken, researched and written by an independent 3rd party based on current interviews with all involved members of the band including management and studio personnel.
It should a full volume on Raised On Radio, the making of.

I'd blow through that in 1 sitting.

That would be an awesome book. It could never be written, based on the legal ramifications of whatever gag order-type shit those associated with it were involved in. I like the point that the writer makes in the Time3 book about Huey Lewis & The News going into the studio next door and recording "Fore!" or whatever record it was and having it chart in a shorter time frame than it took Journey to finish ROR. Another cool anecdote is the helicopter Perry had on stand by due to his mother's illness.

Speaking of Huey Lewis, I saw an interview with him on VH1 Classic. He said when they were recording "Sports" that he knew how good it was and how many hit singles it would spawn. He didn't trust Chrysalis Records, and was paranoid about anyone else having the masters, so he took them home every night to safeguard them.

[Red13JoePa]

I think the way the Time3 liner notes put it, Lewis and the crew entered the studio AFTER the boyz and ripped their whole album off before Journey could even finish a handful of songs.

Still time WELL spent in my eyes. Oh, and allow me a pre emptive "Shut up" to NealIsGod and NMT.

I remember the helicopter thing, too. How surreal the whole thing must've been.

[strangegrey]

Here's the exact paragraph from the booklet:

"With Perry as producer and engineer Jim Gaines, producer of the Huey Lewis and the News smash album, "Sports," serving as associate producer, the band went into the Plant Studios in Sausalito in November 1984 to record the new Journey album. Next door, the same day, Lewis and the News started a new record, too, cutting a song called "Power of Love," a song that would reach the top of the charts before Journey could get halfway through the band's next album."

The sad thing about the above statement is if you read between the lines....the whole Journey getting halfway through the next album statement speaks volumes. Remember, nose-boy fired the greatest drummer in the world and a pretty damn good bass player after the album was largely completed...and replaced them with those 2 fat fucks they toured with...If you think about it, the above line suggests that this was before the idiotic firings that Perry launched.

So if you take that into consideration, HL&theNews actually completed and released an album in less time than it took for Journey as a whole, to cobble together an initial incarnation of that record.


Perry-apologists can spew on all they want, about claiming that Neal was equally responsible for the near-abortion RoR became...but I disagree. It's been put on record by more than just Herbie, that Neal was in a bad way during RoR...almost suicidal. I really think that RoR is the Perry/Cain show...with Neal being pimped in for guitar tracks.

skinny ties and bouncy pop songs ruined the majority of RoR....and that kind of sryupy pop crap is what populated the majority of TBF....Thankfully, we have a few jems from both albums to suggest that Neal had at least enough ballsack left to inject fire into a few songs...

[NealIsGod]

Here's the exact paragraph from the booklet:

"With Perry as producer and engineer Jim Gaines, producer of the Huey Lewis and the News smash album, "Sports," serving as associate producer, the band went into the Plant Studios in Sausalito in November 1984 to record the new Journey album. Next door, the same day, Lewis and the News started a new record, too, cutting a song called "Power of Love," a song that would reach the top of the charts before Journey could get halfway through the band's next album."

The sad thing about the above statement is if you read between the lines....the whole Journey getting halfway through the next album statement speaks volumes. Remember, nose-boy fired the greatest drummer in the world and a pretty damn good bass player after the album was largely completed...and replaced them with those 2 fat fucks they toured with...If you think about it, the above line suggests that this was before the idiotic firings that Perry launched.

So if you take that into consideration, HL&theNews actually completed and released an album in less time than it took for Journey as a whole, to cobble together an initial incarnation of that record.


Perry-apologists can spew on all they want, about claiming that Neal was equally responsible for the near-abortion RoR became...but I disagree. It's been put on record by more than just Herbie, that Neal was in a bad way during RoR...almost suicidal. I really think that RoR is the Perry/Cain show...with Neal being pimped in for guitar tracks.

skinny ties and bouncy pop songs ruined the majority of RoR....and that kind of sryupy pop crap is what populated the majority of TBF....Thankfully, we have a few jems from both albums to suggest that Neal had at least enough ballsack left to inject fire into a few songs...

Yup. BGTY (esp. the outro), ICSIIYE and MOL.

[Jeremey]

Remember, nose-boy fired the greatest drummer in the world and a pretty damn good bass player after the album was largely completed...and replaced them with those 2 fat fucks they toured with...If you think about it, the above line suggests that this was before the idiotic firings that Perry launched.

In the case of Ross, there's much behind the scenes that may have contributed to his own downfall in that situation, I don't know, but there's always the rumors and innuendo. Even Herbie didn't seem to touch that one. I think you have to go back to the question "Where was Ross during the recording of 'After The Fall.'" They wanted a different groove, an east coast Motown vibe? Bullshit. There had to be a reason they brought in a studio ringer like Jackson.

[Red13JoePa]

The Smitty thing didn't bug as much b/c I thought the the Londin/Baird combo worked swimmingly studio/live.

I DO think we missed Valory, though. The bass on the record..... I dunno, didn't sound like Journey bass for the most part, way too busy or something.
Valory has laying the bottom of Journey down to a perfect, selfless, usually minimilistic science and his tone on the rockers is unique.

[strangegrey]

I'm not going to say that Ross was a great, world-class bass player...But Steve Smith was, is and will always be one of the greatest drummers to ever take in oxygen. You don't fire Steve Smith. Well, unless you have a nose big enough to hide your EV mic.

Nig, the sad thing about ICSIIYE is that it's not even on the actual release of TBF. sad...one of the best songs during those sessions.

[NealIsGod]

I'm not going to say that Ross was a great, world-class bass player...But Steve Smith was, is and will always be one of the greatest drummers to ever take in oxygen. You don't fire Steve Smith. Well, unless you have a nose big enough to hide your EV mic.

Nig, the sad thing about ICSIIYE is that it's not even on the actual release of TBF. sad...one of the best songs during those sessions.

I know, what were they thinking? That should have not only been on the record, but it should have been the first single.

[Jeremey]

The Smitty thing didn't bug as much b/c I thought the the Londin/Baird combo worked swimmingly studio/live.

I DO think we missed Valory, though. The bass on the record..... I dunno, didn't sound like Journey bass for the most part, way too busy or something.
Valory has laying the bottom of Journey down to a perfect, selfless, usually minimilistic science and his tone on the rockers is unique.

I like Ross' playing a lot better than Jackson's. I hate the drum sound on ROR though, and I just can't get over the sight of fat little Mike Baird sitting behind the kit in his trucker's hat in the ROR videos, thinking who is that guy?An extra from the Mickey Rooney film "Bill?"

[NealIsGod]

The Smitty thing didn't bug as much b/c I thought the the Londin/Baird combo worked swimmingly studio/live.

I DO think we missed Valory, though. The bass on the record..... I dunno, didn't sound like Journey bass for the most part, way too busy or something.
Valory has laying the bottom of Journey down to a perfect, selfless, usually minimilistic science and his tone on the rockers is unique.

I like Ross' playing a lot better than Jackson's. I hate the drum sound on ROR though, and I just can't get over the sight of fat little Mike Baird sitting behind the kit in his trucker's hat in the ROR videos, thinking who is that guy?An extra from the Mickey Rooney film "Bill?"

Love the obscure reference. Wasn't that the movie where he played a 'tard?

Congrats on your 1,000th post!

[Red13JoePa]

I hear you, J with Baird's floppy hat covering his cueballectomy...
But the look is so far from what I give a rip about...
well, except when it comes to poor Neal having to play through gritted teeth while Jaxon swishes over and sidles up next to him....

I like the more power thumping sound of Baird/Londin for THOSE songs.

[Jeremey]

Love the obscure reference. Wasn't that the movie where he played a 'tard?

Congrats on your 1,000th post!

Hooray, I'm a studio engineer!!

[Jeremey]

I hear you, J with Baird's floppy hat covering his cueballectomy...
But the look is so far from what I give a rip about...
well, except when it comes to poor Neal having to play through gritted teeth while Jaxon swishes over and sidles up next to him....

I like the more power thumping sound of Baird/Londin for THOSE songs.

It wasn't so much the look as it was "who is that guy?" And the snare sound just seems hollow to me. Though not as bad as the snare in "Only The Young."

[PROPERRY]

I'm not going to say that Ross was a great, world-class bass player...But Steve Smith was, is and will always be one of the greatest drummers to ever take in oxygen. You don't fire Steve Smith. Well, unless you have a nose big enough to hide your EV mic.

Nig, the sad thing about ICSIIYE is that it's not even on the actual release of TBF. sad...one of the best songs during those sessions.

Hmm, read this though, according to this interview by Ross himself , he says something different, (in regards to the time period of ROR) he says, "Steve Smith and I left, we'd had enough and I think it was probaly a good time to do so."

http://www.getreadytorock.com/rock_stars/journey.htm

[ohsherrie]

There was an interview by Steve Smith posted somewhere a while back. I can't remember where so I'm sure there are some who won't believe me, but in the interview he said the both he and Ross were having some personal problems at the time that contributed to the events that transpired around that album.

Face it, they were all having personal problem of one kind or another. I think Perry, Cain, Schon and Smith all had relationships that were ending or had just ended. I don't know what was happening with Ross, but I have some idea that I won't make a point for discussion on this board.

They probably shouldn't even have attempted to make an album at that time, but I suppose there was a lot of pressure to do so and that pressure probably only added to the stress.

It was a terrible time in their lives and in Journey's and I think it's pretty amazing that they were able to put together an album as great as ROR under the circumstances.

[*Laura]

There was an interview by Steve Smith posted somewhere a while back. I can't remember where so I'm sure there are some who won't believe me, but in the interview he said the both he and Ross were having some personal problems at the time that contributed to the events that transpired around that album.

Face it, they were all having personal problem of one kind or another. I think Perry, Cain, Schon and Smith all had relationships that were ending or had just ended. I don't know what was happening with Ross, but I have some idea that I won't make a point for discussion on this board.

They probably shouldn't even have attempted to make an album at that time, but I suppose there was a lot of pressure to do so and that pressure probably only added to the stress.

It was a terrible time in their lives and in Journey's and I think it's pretty amazing that they were able to put together an album as great as ROR under the circumstances.

Perfect,Sherrie.The bottom line.

[PROPERRY]

Well the bottom line has always been about THE MUSIC for me too!! ROR is one of my favorites along with "Trial by Fire".

I just wanted to post the interview to SHOW strangegrey that ROSS evidently has a different take on the WAY that HE and Steve Smith parted with Journey during the ROR time period.

[heardonthestreet]

Where's Dave-28 when you need him? He posted an interview by Perry saying pretty much what Ross said.

[junky]

Where's Dave-28 when you need him? He posted an interview by Perry saying pretty much what Ross said.

I'm not Dave-28, but this is a great read: part of Steve Smith's interview with Modern Drummer 1997

http://www.cavemanproductions.com/REVS/ssmithiv.html

And speaking of Steve Smith, I saw his band Vital Information recently.

Amazing, but kind of strange, considering last time I saw him live was in an arena in 1983.

We stayed after an talked to him afterwards and, wow, what a great guy, we had so much common knowledge about music.

I felt bad about keeping him from tearing down, but he kept going.

[Red13JoePa]

Come on.
Post-facto spin.

Nobody wants to admit they got fired but P canned them.

[junky]

Come on.
Post-facto spin.

Nobody wants to admit they got fired but P canned them.

Steve Smith admits it:


Modern Drummer
April 1997
By: Robyn Flans



RF: It's no secret that when Journey ended there were some problems. Ten years later you came back into this feeling...

SS: ...a bit apprehensive about getting involved again. As far as having moved on from the pain I went through when I first left the band in '85, I felt resolved about that. I didn't harbor any resentment about being kicked out of the band, because dealing with those pains turned out to be a blessing in disguise for me. It helped me to move on as far as being a musician and developing as a person, and having to make my way in life without the protective, cocoon of a successful rock band.

From the point of view of needing a resolution, it didn't matter to me if this reunion happened. What I was apprehensive about was getting involved in this type of lifestyle again, and opening the whole can of worms that goes with it. I enjoyed my life and really liked what was going on with Vital Information, the clinics, the sessions, and family life. But with the success of all the other reunion bands, it seemed like a great opportunity to further heal some of the wounds that happened when the band broke up.

http://www.cavemanproductions.com/REVS/ssmithiv.html

[heardonthestreet]

Come on.
Post-facto spin.

Nobody wants to admit they got fired but P canned them.

All men lie to save face!

[Red13JoePa]

I know Smitty admitted it in that one article, but I say it's after the fact spin doctoring to help all save face.
Perry coerced the other 2 into clipping Valory (big mistake for ROR's sound) and Smitty.

[conversationpc]

I know Smitty admitted it in that one article, but I say it's after the fact spin doctoring to help all save face.
Perry coerced the other 2 into clipping Valory (big mistake for ROR's sound) and Smitty.

If it were Valory saying this, I would agree, but I think Smith seems to come across much more credible than the other guys.

[heardonthestreet]

I know Smitty admitted it in that one article, but I say it's after the fact spin doctoring to help all save face.
Perry coerced the other 2 into clipping Valory (big mistake for ROR's sound) and Smitty.

You can't know that.

ROR is what it is regardless of circumstances surrounding it's making. It does have a sound all it's own which makes it a special Journey album. It is what it is. Jackson contributed to it's being a fine album, like it or not.