OT: 22 dead in Va. Tech shooting rampage

[Behshad]

When I first mentioned we need more strict gun laws, I think some missunderstood me, thinking I meant we shouldnt be allowed to have guns at all.

With strict gun laws , I mean, the process of buying and owning a gun should take a bit longer than buyin a pack of smokes. They should take all your info and send it in and review every aspect before a final "approval". This will not solve the problem completely, but will reduce the chance of lunatics owning a gun and shooting innocent people. I bet some of these people would change their mind during the 4 weeks they would have to wait till theyre approved to purchase a gun.

Also when it comes to using guns as protection and our rights, most of the times when a criminal attacks with the gun, he/she is the only one in that situation having the gun.
You guys all say you want a gun in your closet to protect your family from the bad guys, but 9 out of 10 times you get attacked, youre just a tad away from your closet. And since youre not allowed to carry your gun with you on the street where most crimes happens anyways, what good does it do to have the right to have the damn gun in your closet when you cant use it when you need it the most? The bad guy "wins" 9 out of 10 times. Lets say half of the people that were killed Monday had a gun . Did it help them ?

We cant fight crime and criminal minds to the point where they dont exist, but with more strict weapon laws, we can at least reduce the chances of guns in wrong hands.

Holy shit! I agree with 99% of what you say here! The only thing you are wrong about is carrying a firearm. Many states have a concealed carry law. I carry almost 100% of the time. Then again I am also trained in the proper use of a firearm.

There shoud be a waiting period, the backround checks should be extensive and probably should include a psychological interview as well.

But to ban guns? Never.

The second amendment is in the Constitution for ONE reason, so the people (that us) can protect ourselves...be it from criminals, but probably most importantly from our government when it goes too far.

The Federalist Papers are an interesting read. You can read exactly what (some of) the Founding Fathers were thinking and the reasoning behind each of the Amendments in the Bill of Rights. Especially Madison and (I believe, I need to double check) Monroe who were esentially the drafters of the Bill of Rights.

Well said! Glad we finally agree on something other than music tastes.
I also agree with you 99%, but the concealed weapon laws. I know most states have them but do you really want people walking around with guns? Specially since we both know that 95% of those people arent trained like yourself. If people would start carryin concealed weapons and able to pull it at some point, we'd be steps away from turning our world into a real version of "Grand Theft Auto".
I totally agree with you about the psychological interviews. I for one think that " psyCHO " wouldnt have failed at the interview.

[RossValoryRocks]

When I first mentioned we need more strict gun laws, I think some missunderstood me, thinking I meant we shouldnt be allowed to have guns at all.

With strict gun laws , I mean, the process of buying and owning a gun should take a bit longer than buyin a pack of smokes. They should take all your info and send it in and review every aspect before a final "approval". This will not solve the problem completely, but will reduce the chance of lunatics owning a gun and shooting innocent people. I bet some of these people would change their mind during the 4 weeks they would have to wait till theyre approved to purchase a gun.

Also when it comes to using guns as protection and our rights, most of the times when a criminal attacks with the gun, he/she is the only one in that situation having the gun.
You guys all say you want a gun in your closet to protect your family from the bad guys, but 9 out of 10 times you get attacked, youre just a tad away from your closet. And since youre not allowed to carry your gun with you on the street where most crimes happens anyways, what good does it do to have the right to have the damn gun in your closet when you cant use it when you need it the most? The bad guy "wins" 9 out of 10 times. Lets say half of the people that were killed Monday had a gun . Did it help them ?

We cant fight crime and criminal minds to the point where they dont exist, but with more strict weapon laws, we can at least reduce the chances of guns in wrong hands.

Holy shit! I agree with 99% of what you say here! The only thing you are wrong about is carrying a firearm. Many states have a concealed carry law. I carry almost 100% of the time. Then again I am also trained in the proper use of a firearm.

There shoud be a waiting period, the backround checks should be extensive and probably should include a psychological interview as well.

But to ban guns? Never.

The second amendment is in the Constitution for ONE reason, so the people (that us) can protect ourselves...be it from criminals, but probably most importantly from our government when it goes too far.

The Federalist Papers are an interesting read. You can read exactly what (some of) the Founding Fathers were thinking and the reasoning behind each of the Amendments in the Bill of Rights. Especially Madison and (I believe, I need to double check) Monroe who were esentially the drafters of the Bill of Rights.

Well said! Glad we finally agree on something other than music tastes.
I also agree with you 99%, but the concealed weapon laws. I know most states have them but do you really want people walking around with guns? Specially since we both know that 95% of those people arent trained like yourself. If people would start carryin concealed weapons and able to pull it at some point, we'd be steps away from turning our world into a real version of "Grand Theft Auto".
I totally agree with you about the psychological interviews. I for one think that " psyCHO " wouldnt have failed at the interview.

Concealed weapons are a wonderful thing. PA where I live, and Ohio and Texas where I lived all have concealed carry laws. I will find the statistic but in states where concealed carry is allowed it shows that gun crime is lower because of the fact that criminals tend to worry about someone shooting back.

Using a weapon, be it a knife, a gun or baseball bat is about power. If someone has a weapon, and you don't they have the power (obviously). If a criminal has to worry about a level playing field or not being able to over power their victim they generally don't commit the crime. That's not to say it doesn't happen sometimes, but far less when things are on an even playing field.

[conversationpc]

Fuck you Dave. Fuck you right in your right wing asshole.

I haven't had a drink yet. Will now.

You think you are more sophisticated and better person than me? Go fuck yourself and go straight to Hell.

Good grief, Deano! Get a grip on yourself, for crying out loud. It was a freakin' joke. I was referring to your over-the-top posting style not your actual state of mind. Talk about someone who can dish it out but can't take it.

[AR]

Ah the entrepreneurial spirit alive and well on ebay..........

This first "go getter" has registered a domain name for Virginia Tech lawsuits:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Virginia-Tech-Domai ... dZViewItem

This one has domain names "perfect for memorials" and promises to donate half the proceeds.

http://cgi.ebay.com/REMBERING-THE-VIRGI ... dZViewItem

[Lady Luck]

This one wants to has domain names "perfect for memorials" and promises to donate half the proceeds.

Um yeah...bullshit!

[conversationpc]

Within weeks we had the toughest gun laws in the western world implimented and nothing of the sort has happened anywhere in Australia since.

I found a rather interesting article that had this to say about gun control laws in Great Britain and Australia and their effect on violent crime...

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1186396/posts

In reality, Australia does have a "statistical problem" with rising violent crime. So does Britain -- and both countries took unprecedented steps a few years back to not only regulate firearms, but to confiscate them. Australians spent at least half a billion dollars to collect and destroy hundreds of thousands of legally owned guns, and the result? No decrease in violent crime, armed robberies up by 166%.

Other studies also back up the stats about rising violent crime, including gun-related crimes, in both countries.

[ohsherrie]

Um......, Dave......., Andrew lives there. Statistics can be skewed to show whatever anyone wants them to show. I was an engineer in my professional life and it's a joke in the profession that you can make anything look good on paper. It's true and accountants know it as well as engineers. Therefore, you can probably dig up some numbers and graphs to make any point you're trying to make. That doesn't make them any more real than the "numbers and graphs" that say our economy is great.

[Barb]

http://www.lvrj.com/opinion/7139871.html

Why don't they explain to us, just this once, why these chemically warped fruitcakes never attack police stations or Army bases? Could it be because, even in their madness, they know the armed people there might shoot back?

We wouldn't want to similarly inoculate our schools, I suppose

[NealIsGod]

Why don't they explain to us, just this once, why these chemically warped fruitcakes never attack police stations or Army bases? Could it be because, even in their madness, they know the armed people there might shoot back?

We wouldn't want to similarly inoculate our schools, I suppose

The VT shooter ended up shooting himself. What makes you think he was afraid of getting shot?

[conversationpc]

Statistics can be skewed to show whatever anyone wants them to show. I was an engineer in my professional life and it's a joke in the profession that you can make anything look good on paper. It's true and accountants know it as well as engineers. Therefore, you can probably dig up some numbers and graphs to make any point you're trying to make. That doesn't make them any more real than the "numbers and graphs" that say our economy is great.

It's funny how this argument always comes up whenever someone doesn't want to believe what the survey is saying. Regardless, there IS a problem in both of the aforementioned countries with increasing violent crime, despite the tougher gun laws. If you're going to simply swipe it away, at least make a half-hearted attempt at answering it rather than dismissing it.

[conversationpc]

Why don't they explain to us, just this once, why these chemically warped fruitcakes never attack police stations or Army bases? Could it be because, even in their madness, they know the armed people there might shoot back?

We wouldn't want to similarly inoculate our schools, I suppose

The VT shooter ended up shooting himself. What makes you think he was afraid of getting shot?

Occasionally, there are nuts like this that WANT to go out in a blaze of glory but they are few and far between. Most criminals don't want to lose their own life.

[Barb]

Why don't they explain to us, just this once, why these chemically warped fruitcakes never attack police stations or Army bases? Could it be because, even in their madness, they know the armed people there might shoot back?

We wouldn't want to similarly inoculate our schools, I suppose

The VT shooter ended up shooting himself. What makes you think he was afraid of getting shot?

In this case, he wasn't afraid of getting shot -- maybe. Maybe if he thought he could only kill 1 or 2 people, it wouldn't have been worth the sacrifice. I'm frankly amazed this happened at all. VA Tech is a gun free zone after all.

[RedWingFan]

Why don't they explain to us, just this once, why these chemically warped fruitcakes never attack police stations or Army bases? Could it be because, even in their madness, they know the armed people there might shoot back?

We wouldn't want to similarly inoculate our schools, I suppose

The VT shooter ended up shooting himself. What makes you think he was afraid of getting shot?

Occasionally, there are nuts like this that WANT to go out in a blaze of glory but they are few and far between. Most criminals don't want to lose their own life.

Yeah, plus he knew he was walking into a "fish in a barrel" situation. If he thought he may be able to kill 2 or 3 before getting popped, he may have reconsidered another way to go out

[ohsherrie]

Statistics can be skewed to show whatever anyone wants them to show. I was an engineer in my professional life and it's a joke in the profession that you can make anything look good on paper. It's true and accountants know it as well as engineers. Therefore, you can probably dig up some numbers and graphs to make any point you're trying to make. That doesn't make them any more real than the "numbers and graphs" that say our economy is great.

It's funny how this argument always comes up whenever someone doesn't want to believe what the survey is saying. Regardless, there IS a problem in both of the aforementioned countries with increasing violent crime, despite the tougher gun laws. If you're going to simply swipe it away, at least make a half-hearted attempt at answering it rather than dismissing it.

It always comes up because it always applies.

There may very well be an increase in violent crime in those countries, but it's not because they haven't tried to do something about it and they sure as hell aren't as violent as this country. If the manufacture, importing, and sales of all automatic and semi-automatic firearms was banned and enforced in this country I think you'd see a ripple effect in the rest of the world.

[Barb]

Statistics can be skewed to show whatever anyone wants them to show. I was an engineer in my professional life and it's a joke in the profession that you can make anything look good on paper. It's true and accountants know it as well as engineers. Therefore, you can probably dig up some numbers and graphs to make any point you're trying to make. That doesn't make them any more real than the "numbers and graphs" that say our economy is great.

It's funny how this argument always comes up whenever someone doesn't want to believe what the survey is saying. Regardless, there IS a problem in both of the aforementioned countries with increasing violent crime, despite the tougher gun laws. If you're going to simply swipe it away, at least make a half-hearted attempt at answering it rather than dismissing it.

It always comes up because it always applies.

There may very well be an increase in violent crime in those countries, but it's not because they haven't tried to do something about it and they sure as hell aren't as violent as this country. If the manufacture, importing, and sales of all automatic and semi-automatic firearms was banned and enforced in this country I think you'd see a ripple effect in the rest of the world.

That's kind of like assuming that if we destroy all of our nukes so would everyone else.

[ohsherrie]

Statistics can be skewed to show whatever anyone wants them to show. I was an engineer in my professional life and it's a joke in the profession that you can make anything look good on paper. It's true and accountants know it as well as engineers. Therefore, you can probably dig up some numbers and graphs to make any point you're trying to make. That doesn't make them any more real than the "numbers and graphs" that say our economy is great.

It's funny how this argument always comes up whenever someone doesn't want to believe what the survey is saying. Regardless, there IS a problem in both of the aforementioned countries with increasing violent crime, despite the tougher gun laws. If you're going to simply swipe it away, at least make a half-hearted attempt at answering it rather than dismissing it.

It always comes up because it always applies.

There may very well be an increase in violent crime in those countries, but it's not because they haven't tried to do something about it and they sure as hell aren't as violent as this country. If the manufacture, importing, and sales of all automatic and semi-automatic firearms was banned and enforced in this country I think you'd see a ripple effect in the rest of the world.

That's kind of like assuming that if we destroy all of our nukes so would everyone else.

No Barb, that's not the direction I was thinking in. I think the "street" gun culture in this country is being emulated in England and Australia through rap music and video games. If we would put a stop to it it would also stop there. I also think that stopping the manufacture and importing of auto and semi-auto guns here would cripple that industry to the point that they couldn't survive on sales to other countries.

[Barb]

Statistics can be skewed to show whatever anyone wants them to show. I was an engineer in my professional life and it's a joke in the profession that you can make anything look good on paper. It's true and accountants know it as well as engineers. Therefore, you can probably dig up some numbers and graphs to make any point you're trying to make. That doesn't make them any more real than the "numbers and graphs" that say our economy is great.

It's funny how this argument always comes up whenever someone doesn't want to believe what the survey is saying. Regardless, there IS a problem in both of the aforementioned countries with increasing violent crime, despite the tougher gun laws. If you're going to simply swipe it away, at least make a half-hearted attempt at answering it rather than dismissing it.

It always comes up because it always applies.

There may very well be an increase in violent crime in those countries, but it's not because they haven't tried to do something about it and they sure as hell aren't as violent as this country. If the manufacture, importing, and sales of all automatic and semi-automatic firearms was banned and enforced in this country I think you'd see a ripple effect in the rest of the world.

That's kind of like assuming that if we destroy all of our nukes so would everyone else.

No Barb, that's not the direction I was thinking in. I think the "street" gun culture in this country is being emulated in England and Australia through rap music and video games. If we would put a stop to it it would also stop there. I also think that stopping the manufacture and importing of auto and semi-auto guns here would cripple that industry to the point that they couldn't survive on sales to other countries.

I see your point, but I think it would just insure that only the bad guys have the guns.

[ohsherrie]

No Barb, that's not the direction I was thinking in. I think the "street" gun culture in this country is being emulated in England and Australia through rap music and video games. If we would put a stop to it it would also stop there. I also think that stopping the manufacture and importing of auto and semi-auto guns here would cripple that industry to the point that they couldn't survive on sales to other countries.

I see your point, but I think it would just insure that only the bad guys have the guns.

I'm sure there is probably some credability to that, but all I think of when I read it is "NRA sound bite" like "Out of my Cold Dead Hands".

I think we would have a lot easier time stopping the bad guys if we stopped the guns.

[conversationpc]

There may very well be an increase in violent crime in those countries, but it's not because they haven't tried to do something about it and they sure as hell aren't as violent as this country. If the manufacture, importing, and sales of all automatic and semi-automatic firearms was banned and enforced in this country I think you'd see a ripple effect in the rest of the world.

I seriously doubt it.

[Barb]

No Barb, that's not the direction I was thinking in. I think the "street" gun culture in this country is being emulated in England and Australia through rap music and video games. If we would put a stop to it it would also stop there. I also think that stopping the manufacture and importing of auto and semi-auto guns here would cripple that industry to the point that they couldn't survive on sales to other countries.

I see your point, but I think it would just insure that only the bad guys have the guns.

I'm sure there is probably some credability to that, but all I think of when I read it is "NRA sound bite" like "Out of my Cold Dead Hands".

I think we would have a lot easier time stopping the bad guys if we stopped the guns.

Well, I don't know anything about the NRA. I don't like guns, don't want one, but look at this from what I see as a logical point of view. Making something illegal only deters law abiding citizens, not determined criminals or psychopaths. Drugs is a good example of what I'm trying to get at.