OT: The sad state of rock...

[Wheels Of Fyre]

Still together and making new quality music.

I was jamming to their GH album the other day. Robin Z. was and still is a great voice - just an AWESOME singer. CT is incredible. I saw them years ago in Akron at a rib burn-off. You think, "Geez - these guys have been reduced to THIS venue." From Live at Budokan to THIS. Yikes. But they came out and just CRANKED it. An absoultey LOUD and fabulous show.

[strangegrey]

But this morning, I felt it apropriate to jump in here and say something that I've been feeling for quite some time....BLAH, BLAH, BLAH...

Thoughts?

Yes. I think you're getting old.

When JOURNEY, etc. were hot in their day my parents were saying EXACTLY what you're saying now. When Bill Haley, Little Richard, and Elvis were hot in their day my grand parents were saying this.

The reality is that music and musical tastes and styles change.

I think JOURNEY wrote a song about this - yeah - something about every generation...

There's a difference between *my* musical tastes...i.e my perception on this...and the reality of it. The fact of the matter is that my perception is not relevant here....even if it has a bearing on the situation.

I wholeheartedly agree that my perception of Journey and all these other bands is vastly different from what it was back in 1989...and I am indeed older than I was in 89!

However, I still stand by my point that this genre of music suffers from more 'crisis' than other genres. Every damn week, another band is kicking someone out, fighting over royalties, etc, etc. That's undeniable, irrespective of your/my opinion.

So to that end, generational viewpoints don't apply here. If I were comparing Journey, VH and all the other stuff I grew up on...with the music today, I can see your point.

My uncle, who is a big Allman Brothers fan, used to constantly slag on me in the 80s, when I was listening to VH, Journey. I remember one day in the early '90, I was playing guitar along with a Bad English CD. He shows up to visit and he went on a massive tyraid about how today's music sucks. THATs generational difference. If he were going "They're not the same without Duane" (which he also has been known to say), it wouldn't be generational issues or age creeping in....he's simply commenting on his opinion. He also will, very frequently, comment on how amazing Derek Trucks is...and that the band has never been better since Duane's death (and I'll agree with him there).

The thing is here....I'm looking at my OWN generation and commenting on how it seemingly is falling apart and eating itself. That's different....

[Matthew]

However, I still stand by my point that this genre of music suffers from more 'crisis' than other genres. Every damn week, another band is kicking someone out, fighting over royalties, etc, etc. That's undeniable, irrespective of your/my opinion.

Is that because you know more about this genre than any other? I bet if we were into hip-hop we'd see just as many intrigues and disputes and egomaniac strops. I mean...I haven't heard of any AOR or hair bands gunning each other down in the street.

The thing is here....I'm looking at my OWN generation and commenting on how it seemingly is falling apart and eating itself. That's different....

Good point - but still...my perception of the bands of my generation has changed as I've got older. And as you and Cat's Eyes have said..I'm more likely to feel that I'm 'over' all the bad boy posturing and spolit brat antics now...whereas I loved all that when I was 16.

[NoMoreTails]

I am guy and I dig ROR.

If you're "coming out" you spelled gay wrong...

.....Sorry, I just had to bust on you, ROR fan.

[Red13JoePa]

if I didn't know me better, I'd say possible Freudian slip, NoMoTa...

Alas, simple omission of an article on my part.

[whocares]

While, I generally agree that it's a sad state for Rock these days. I don't agree that the bands and performers in general, should have thought about the disputes. How can you look so far in to the future? You have no idea how success will spoil musicians (some or most) tomorrow, when they are ok today.

I don't care about (much less for) the disputes in bands that are still around from the 70's or 80's. I have the music I enjoyed when things were "good" with the band. If my favorites never make another record together, if they each have to record their parts seperate, so they don't ever see each other in person again, I don't care. If it's good, I'll listen to it.

Musicians aren't actually obligated to make us fans happy, if it happens then great, their music might mean more to them, but I don't feel musicians owe me anymore than I owe them. if they break up, go country or whatever, then so be it. That's life!

It's only Rock n Roll, but I like it.

[NoMoreTails]

if I didn't know me better, I'd say possible Freudian slip, NoMoTa...

Alas, simple omission of an article on my part.

The inclusion of digging ROR didn't help matters...

[CatEyes]

I secretly blame Bono for everything.
Seriously,Bono is a disappointment.He gave up his rock aura just to make sure that he stays relevant.

He had a Rock aura?

A yellowish one. Now is kinda green-ish.

Looks like the need for "green" is glowing a little brighter this evening. Today from Uncle Joe:

Bono Does Idol Tonight
Bono will appear in tonight's "American Idol" fund-raiser special, "Idol Gives Back." Knowing he can reach 31 million viewers with his message was enough to spur the U2 singer to meet with the six remaining Idol finalists. He'll be discussing the work of ONE: The Campaign to Make Poverty History and how the audience can help. In addition, the Idol contestants will perform the song "American Prayer" that Bono co-wrote with Dave Stewart of the Eurythmics. Ellen DeGeneres will host the special two-hour results show with live performances from the Idol stage as well as the Walt Disney Concert Hall in Los Angeles. "Idol Gives Back" is intended to raise awareness and funds for Charity Projects Entertainment Fund and other organizations that provide relief programs to help children and young people in extreme poverty in America and Africa. Of course, CPEF is a supporter of the ONE campaign.

Yes the combination of Bono with American Idol ......... feel the love

Cat

[strangegrey]

Is that because you know more about this genre than any other? I bet if we were into hip-hop we'd see just as many intrigues and disputes and egomaniac strops. I mean...I haven't heard of any AOR or hair bands gunning each other down in the street.

Cut the sarcasm...I'm *not* preaching here.

With respect to rap, a few BIG differences. Rap music is, sad to say, HUGE in this country and doesn't at ALL seem like it's doing anything to hurt the genre. In fact, it seems to help. The infighting between them is a part of the allure to the music. It's also a right of passage. Do you watch the Sopranos? There was an episode called 'Fleshy Part Of The Thigh' where an aspiring rapper asked (Soprano family enforcer) Bobby to shoot him, so he can earn his street cred. Bobby offered to shoot him in the fleshy part of the thigh, but missed and got him in the ass.

With AOR/Hard Rock, the in fighting is more akin to a bunch of seagulls fighting over the last scrap of fish guts thrown over the bow of a fishing boat. Again, you seem to be missing my general point here... The thing is that this style of music, should have reached the point where all the parties involved would have grown up, matured a bit...and realized that they can do something worthwhile together while there's still time...and instead they fight like bums over beggars turf. It's sad, more than anything else.

[johnroxx]

"Rap music" is, for the most part, an oxymoron, if there ever was one.

;^)

[Marabelle]

[quote="strangegrey
Cut the sarcasm...I'm *not* preaching here.

With respect to rap, a few BIG differences. Rap music is, sad to say, HUGE in this country and doesn't at ALL seem like it's doing anything to hurt the genre. In fact, it seems to help. The infighting between them is a part of the allure to the music. It's also a right of passage. Do you watch the Sopranos? There was an episode called 'Fleshy Part Of The Thigh' where an aspiring rapper asked (Soprano family enforcer) Bobby to shoot him, so he can earn his street cred. Bobby offered to shoot him in the fleshy part of the thigh, but missed and got him in the ass.

With AOR/Hard Rock, the in fighting is more akin to a bunch of seagulls fighting over the last scrap of fish guts thrown over the bow of a fishing boat. Again, you seem to be missing my general point here... The thing is that this style of music, should have reached the point where all the parties involved would have grown up, matured a bit...and realized that they can do something worthwhile together while there's still time...and instead they fight like bums over beggars turf. It's sad, more than anything else.[/quote]

I'm viewing this as not a "doing something worthwhile together while there is still time" as really not is what in these artist heads. I think most come to the point in their career and in their life when they feel that individually they are the "star" of the band; and that egomanical drive is what causes a lot of the riffs in bands. Control. Fame. It wasn't just talent that got them interested in music; it was also the lure of fame and money. I do agree there are those artist who playing music and sharing their talent is what it's all about but I think a lot of times there comes a point when money and fame kind of outweigh the product. Then you add personalities in the mix and it comes down to control. And you have singers leaving the band, groups falling apart and overall bad feelings.

[ohsherrie]

With AOR/Hard Rock, the in fighting is more akin to a bunch of seagulls fighting over the last scrap of fish guts thrown over the bow of a fishing boat. Again, you seem to be missing my general point here... The thing is that this style of music, should have reached the point where all the parties involved would have grown up, matured a bit...and realized that they can do something worthwhile together while there's still time...and instead they fight like bums over beggars turf. It's sad, more than anything else.

Maybe some of them have matured and in the process have grown apart from and out of whatever bond they had with their former bandmates. In his last Q & A Steve said(paraphrasing) he still has respect for Neal's talent and the chemistry they had together back in their heyday, but that it was in the past and it's probably better left there. I took that to mean that it's over and it's too late to go back and try to revive it, but can still be appreciated for the good things that came form it at the time.

I only use Steve and Neal as examples because they're the ones I'm most familiar with, but if you go back and read some of the interviews that Andrew has done with members of other bands you'll pick up on hints of that same type of feeling among members of other bands that have changed key personnel. I don't think you can really compare the situation with VH to Journey because I don't think anyone in Journey has ever been a crazy as EVH.

[ohsherrie]

"Rap music" is, for the most part, an oxymoron, if there ever was one.

;^)

Amen.

[Wheels Of Fyre]

But this morning, I felt it apropriate to jump in here and say something that I've been feeling for quite some time....BLAH, BLAH, BLAH...

Thoughts?

Yes. I think you're getting old.

When JOURNEY, etc. were hot in their day my parents were saying EXACTLY what you're saying now. When Bill Haley, Little Richard, and Elvis were hot in their day my grand parents were saying this.

The reality is that music and musical tastes and styles change.

I think JOURNEY wrote a song about this - yeah - something about every generation...

However, I still stand by my point that this genre of music suffers from more 'crisis' than other genres. Every damn week, another band is kicking someone out, fighting over royalties, etc, etc. That's undeniable, irrespective of your/my opinion.

So to that end, generational viewpoints don't apply here. If I were comparing Journey, VH and all the other stuff I grew up on...with the music today, I can see your point.

The thing is here....I'm looking at my OWN generation and commenting on how it seemingly is falling apart and eating itself. That's different....

Sorry I wasn't clear. I've been labeled a "windbag" here so much that I'm gun shy. Please keep posting - I'll soon lose that label and it'll be stuck on you.

I get what you're saying. Your favorite bands can't keep themselves together therefore the music suffers.

That's not entirely accurate.

It's not the bands imploding that is the problem. It's the MUSIC.

That's what I was pointing out. It doesn't matter if a band has original members or if there's constant changes in lineups. It's all about a band - in any incarnation - NOT "doing right by the genre" but rather evolving with it.

The Beatles are perhaps the greatest evidence of this. They evolved as rock did. They also helped it evolve. Unfortunately, they found it impossible to evolve any further. Blame their break on Yoko or whomever. The bottom line is that they lost their ability to evolve which was predicated on their creative spark.

The fire died.

80's rock music RIGHT NOW is NOT cool. There are a few exceptions - icons of rock namely the Stones, AC/DC, and Aerosmith. Bands like JOURNEY are NOT icons of rock. It's delusional to think so. I would argue that the voice of Steve Perry is iconic. Point being that only icons of rock are significant - everyone else is merely hanging on.

[Matthew]

Cut the sarcasm...I'm *not* preaching here.

Who said you were preaching?

With respect to rap, a few BIG differences. Rap music is, sad to say, HUGE in this country and doesn't at ALL seem like it's doing anything to hurt the genre. In fact, it seems to help. The infighting between them is a part of the allure to the music. It's also a right of passage. Do you watch the Sopranos? There was an episode called 'Fleshy Part Of The Thigh' where an aspiring rapper asked (Soprano family enforcer) Bobby to shoot him, so he can earn his street cred. Bobby offered to shoot him in the fleshy part of the thigh, but missed and got him in the ass.

Yes - good point.

I love the Sopranos story, by the way. Which series is that from? I've just been obssessively making my way through the box sets of series 3-5...and just started 6. Is it from the second series?

With AOR/Hard Rock, the in fighting is more akin to a bunch of seagulls fighting over the last scrap of fish guts thrown over the bow of a fishing boat. Again, you seem to be missing my general point here... The thing is that this style of music, should have reached the point where all the parties involved would have grown up, matured a bit...and realized that they can do something worthwhile together while there's still time...and instead they fight like bums over beggars turf. It's sad, more than anything else.

Nicely but cruelly put. So true. I think I've grasped your point at last.

Having said that...there are loads of veteran rock acts who plod on in a mature and well-organised, if not always inspiring way. You're just sore about Van Halen really, aren't you?

Oh...one last thing...you cited Whitesnake as an example of maturity and lack of ego. I'm sure the five hundred musicians who have been fired by David Coverdale over the years might disagree with you.

[Matthew]

I was jamming to their GH album the other day. Robin Z. was and still is a great voice - just an AWESOME singer. CT is incredible. I saw them years ago in Akron at a rib burn-off. You think, "Geez - these guys have been reduced to THIS venue." From Live at Budokan to THIS. Yikes. But they came out and just CRANKED it. An absoultey LOUD and fabulous show.

What's a "rib burn-off", Fyre? Is that a barbecue of some kind?

[Rick]

Didn't read the whole thread, but I had a thought that popped into my noodle. Not saying this is the case, but a possibility.

It may have to do with the fact that AOR bands can't sell albums like they use to because of the internet, and can't get radio play because none of the classic rock stations will play new music from the classic bands. That leaving their only way to make money in the industry anymore is to tour. They try to get it all together to tour and certain members can't handle the schedule or no longer have the passion or ability at this point in their life to handle the rigors of a tour. They have to be replaced with talent that do or can.

[Matthew]

Didn't read the whole thread, but I had a thought that popped into my noodle. Not saying this is the case, but a possibility.

It may have to do with the fact that AOR bands can't sell albums like they use to because of the internet, and can't get radio play because none of the classic rock stations will play new music from the classic bands. That leaving their only way to make money in the industry anymore is to tour. They try to get it all together to tour and certain members can't handle the schedule or no longer have the passion or ability at this point in their life to handle the rigors of a tour. They have to be replaced with talent that do or can.

That's a good point actually...and it must get harder to travel the country in a gang the whole time when you're in your fifties. Well, unless you're frozen in adolescence like Neal Schon. I mean..a it could be a sign of immaturity to be poncing around on stage in leather trousers when you're a grandad. And maybe Perry is one of the few melodic rock artists who is acting his age?

[X factor]

Call me an old dinosaur but men were men back in the 70s and 80s and this was reflected in the rock music of that era. Sure, it can all seem absurd and corny now - but personally I love all the Spinal Tap type antics and it's great to see that all these old rock warriors are still living the dream!

No, they're not 'playing the game' in a pragmatic, professional way. But let's not ask these guys to behave like bank managers.

Dude, you are talking about "men were men" and you have a picture of Friga in your avatar and your favourite cd is ROR. Kind of a conflict there don't you think?

To quote Michael Kelso..."BURN!"
Damn...that's funny stuff!

Matthew makes some great points in regard to METALLICA nad their disfunction. I had the privilege of seeing them w. Ozzy just a few months before Cliff's death, and they were something to behold. I think perhaps they did rush into it with Newsted a bit fast, and Hell- listen to his side. It was a pretty miserable experience for him...aside from all the money , fame, loose women, drugs....you know...

[Matthew]

Call me an old dinosaur but men were men back in the 70s and 80s and this was reflected in the rock music of that era. Sure, it can all seem absurd and corny now - but personally I love all the Spinal Tap type antics and it's great to see that all these old rock warriors are still living the dream!

No, they're not 'playing the game' in a pragmatic, professional way. But let's not ask these guys to behave like bank managers.

Dude, you are talking about "men were men" and you have a picture of Friga in your avatar and your favourite cd is ROR. Kind of a conflict there don't you think?

To quote Michael Kelso..."BURN!"
Damn...that's funny stuff!

Matthew makes some great points in regard to METALLICA nad their disfunction. I had the privilege of seeing them w. Ozzy just a few months before Cliff's death, and they were something to behold. I think perhaps they did rush into it with Newsted a bit fast, and Hell- listen to his side. It was a pretty miserable experience for him...aside from all the money , fame, loose women, drugs....you know...

I knew this avatar was asking for trouble....but I'm standing by it!

X-factor - I saw Metallica with Cliff a couple of times too - and I've never seen anything like it. Unbelievable. Best shows I've ever seen by a long shot.

[conversationpc]

Oh...one last thing...you cited Whitesnake as an example of maturity and lack of ego. I'm sure the five hundred musicians who have been fired by David Coverdale over the years might disagree with you.

Yeah, that one kinda puzzled me, too. As much as I love Coverdale, it's fairly well known that he's not the easiest guy in the world to work with. Didn't he pretty much fire most of the guys that recorded their breakthrough self-titled release in '87 and replace them with "lookers" for the tour instead?

X-factor - I saw Metallica with Cliff a couple of times too - and I've never seen anything like it. Unbelievable. Best shows I've ever seen by a long shot.

I would've loved to have seen that band live before Cliff died. All of their first three albums and, I would argue, "...And Justice for All", are amongst the top metal albums of all time, in my opinion. The only problem with AJFA, as far as I'm concerned, is its production. Terrible.

[Matthew]

[

Yeah, that one kinda puzzled me, too. As much as I love Coverdale, it's fairly well known that he's not the easiest guy in the world to work with. Didn't he pretty much fire most of the guys that recorded their breakthrough self-titled release in '87 and replace them with "lookers" for the tour instead?

Yes he did - and he used the "lookers" in the videos for the singles too. Although to be fair I think John Sykes resigned...but I'm not sure about that...or if he resigned because Coverdale was such a nightmare.

Funnily enough, Sykes was brought in 1983/1984 as a "looker" himself after Coverdale fired a bunch of other guys from Whitesnakes's bluesy era before the "Slide It In" album.

I guess it is true though that Whitesnake were never a 'band' in the way that Journey are. It was very much Coverdale's solo project after Deep Purple wasn't it?

I would've loved to have seen that band live before Cliff died. All of their first three albums and, I would argue, "...And Justice for All", are amongst the top metal albums of all time, in my opinion. The only problem with AJFA, as far as I'm concerned, is its production. Terrible.

What was going on with that drum sound on AJFA? Amazing to think that the producer Flemming Rasmussen was the genius behind Ride The Lightning and Master of Puppets.

In fact, the band continued to have production problems, I reckon. The Black Album sounded great - although maybe a bit too polished - but there was something so sterile about Load and Reload...and St Anger was a dog's dinner.

I've got high hopes for the new one though given that they've parted company with Bob Rock and have gone for the magic touch of Rick Rubin instead.

[Wheels Of Fyre]

I was jamming to their GH album the other day. Robin Z. was and still is a great voice - just an AWESOME singer. CT is incredible. I saw them years ago in Akron at a rib burn-off. You think, "Geez - these guys have been reduced to THIS venue." From Live at Budokan to THIS. Yikes. But they came out and just CRANKED it. An absoultey LOUD and fabulous show.

What's a "rib burn-off", Fyre? Is that a barbecue of some kind?

Yeah. It's actually a competition. A bunch of cooks and restaurants enter and their ribs are judged. The funny thing is that I'm vegetarian!

I don't know if Akron still has them. It's been a long time since I've been to one there. They were always fun - lots of memories. Gad. I saw Kansas there - they were HORRID. Simply HORRID. I think The Four Tops played that same year and were just AMAZING. It seemed like the whole city quaked when they were on stage. Loverboy played one year and I'll never forget Mike Reno with that big pot belly - trying to tone it down by wearing a vest. Didn't work very well but he still sounded good. I heard a local band just flat out BUTCHER Seger's Turn The Page - as much as I want to I can NOT shake that from my memory. The BEST memory I have of those things were The Little Rascal film marathons they had. There ya go - a brief walk through rib burn-off's past!

[Matthew]

I was jamming to their GH album the other day. Robin Z. was and still is a great voice - just an AWESOME singer. CT is incredible. I saw them years ago in Akron at a rib burn-off. You think, "Geez - these guys have been reduced to THIS venue." From Live at Budokan to THIS. Yikes. But they came out and just CRANKED it. An absoultey LOUD and fabulous show.

What's a "rib burn-off", Fyre? Is that a barbecue of some kind?

Yeah. It's actually a competition. A bunch of cooks and restaurants enter and their ribs are judged. The funny thing is that I'm vegetarian!

I don't know if Akron still has them. It's been a long time since I've been to one there. They were always fun - lots of memories. Gad. I saw Kansas there - they were HORRID. Simply HORRID. I think The Four Tops played that same year and were just AMAZING. It seemed like the whole city quaked when they were on stage. Loverboy played one year and I'll never forget Mike Reno with that big pot belly - trying to tone it down by wearing a vest. Didn't work very well but he still sounded good. I heard a local band just flat out BUTCHER Seger's Turn The Page - as much as I want to I can NOT shake that from my memory. The BEST memory I have of those things were The Little Rascal film marathons they had. There ya go - a brief walk through rib burn-off's past!

Thanks Fyre! I hope you'll be able to shake off that memory of a pot-bellied Mike Reno in a vest someday soon.

[conversationpc]

I don't know if Akron still has them. It's been a long time since I've been to one there. They were always fun - lots of memories. Gad. I saw Kansas there - they were HORRID. Simply HORRID.

Was their sound bad or what? They're my second favorite band next to Journey and I've seen them 7 or 8 times and they've been awesome each time. They are consummate musicians on the level of Journey and I can't imagine them ever performing terribly. Certainly Steve Walsh's voice isn't what it used to be but as musicians, there are not many bands their equal.

[Matthew]

I don't know if Akron still has them. It's been a long time since I've been to one there. They were always fun - lots of memories. Gad. I saw Kansas there - they were HORRID. Simply HORRID.

Was their sound bad or what? They're my second favorite band next to Journey and I've seen them 7 or 8 times and they've been awesome each time. They are consummate musicians on the level of Journey and I can't imagine them ever performing terribly. Certainly Steve Walsh's voice isn't what it used to be but as musicians, there are not many bands their equal.

I was just WAITING for you to pick Fyre up on that one, Dave.

[strangegrey]

Yes - good point.

I love the Sopranos story, by the way. Which series is that from? I've just been obssessively making my way through the box sets of series 3-5...and just started 6. Is it from the second series?

No, that's actually from the first half of Season 6. It was during Tony Soprano's recovery in the hospital...

Having said that...there are loads of veteran rock acts who plod on in a mature and well-organised, if not always inspiring way. You're just sore about Van Halen really, aren't you?

Not really. If anyone who knows me can attest, I am far more of a post-roth supporter of VH. I thought the songwriting was eons better with Hagar...same goes for the singing and the general outlook of the band. We all grasp things differently from our music...and somepeople gravitate to the bombastic arogance that Roth carried around with VH during his time in the band....personally, I found it offensive....and when Sammy joined the group, I was able to discover Eddie's playing wihtout being turned off by Roth. I largely became a guitarist because of EVH...and I wouldn't have even thought of picking up a guitar in 1986 if it wasn't for the fact that Roth was no longer in the group... go figure.

Oh...one last thing...you cited Whitesnake as an example of maturity and lack of ego. I'm sure the five hundred musicians who have been fired by David Coverdale over the years might disagree with you.

Good point, and I suspect bringing up Whitesnake waters down my stance a good bit. I recently read a story about John Sykes, who came in to fill in the last few solos on the Slide It In Record....He was largely relplacing Moody & Marsden, if I recall....ironic that he was given his same walking papers very shortly into the recording of Whitesnake:Whitesnake. John actually recorded the majority of the album after getting fired, but trudged on knowing someone else would do it and he felt it would be better off doing it himself. Good chap that he is!

But Coverdale *is* rumored to be a real dick to work with. However, I will add, that one of the reasons I've brought him up...is that he really appears to have matured over the past 20 years. The current incarnation of whitesnake (save for Mendoza's departure) seems to have remained intact for what seems like 5-7 years. That's coming up on a record for Coverdale. Regardless, the current lineup of whitesnake, in my opinion, is about the best lineup the band has had. They're doing the right things right now, they all get along...they're doing right by the fans. So to that end, they're in my good graces. i.e. Coverdale seems to have gotten past the petty bullshit that STILL plagues alot of current bands.

[strangegrey]

Sorry I wasn't clear. I've been labeled a "windbag" here so much that I'm gun shy. Please keep posting - I'll soon lose that label and it'll be stuck on you.

No matter how windy I get, I have *no* doubts that anyone will confuse my insignificant ramblings with the lunacy of putting together a latin Journey...

[strangegrey]

Yes he did - and he used the "lookers" in the videos for the singles too. Although to be fair I think John Sykes resigned...but I'm not sure about that...or if he resigned because Coverdale was such a nightmare.

Funnily enough, Sykes was brought in 1983/1984 as a "looker" himself after Coverdale fired a bunch of other guys from Whitesnakes's bluesy era before the "Slide It In" album.

I guess it is true though that Whitesnake were never a 'band' in the way that Journey are. It was very much Coverdale's solo project after Deep Purple wasn't it?

I think Coverdale has always refered to whitesnake as a 'vehicle' for a certain musicaly formula...i.e.there was always to be 2 guitarists in the band with Coverdale singing! So yes, it's Coverdale's baby...and that's about it. Seriously, I can't remember whether Sykes was fired or he resigned...but there certainly was some bad blood between him and Coverdale at the end.

I dunno if Sykes was brought in as solely a looker. The guy clearly brought a new level of musicality to the band...and for 1987, Sykes' tone was about as Modern and cutting edge as you can get.

I will add that I do believe Vivian Campbell *was* brought in as a visual stand in...because early on into the 87 tour, Coverdale was just ITCHING to fire Viv. They aparently saw nothing in common with eachother, from a musical standpoint....and I remember, even during the 87 tour, reading interviews with Coverdale where he would complain to no end about how much of a musically inept dipshit Vivian Campbell was.

[MartyMoffatt]

Don’t forget that most of these bands have been around for 25-30 years old, sometimes even longer. Very few marriages last that long, let alone groups of 4-5 individuals, each with their own egos and careers. Rappers have only been around a few years. Let’s see how well they get on with each other after a few more years, and when they aren’t having money thrown at them for doing next to nothing.

I did a very cursory search of the web looking for music acts on any genre who’ve exhibited bad behaviour in the past, of the kind Strangegrey mentioned. The following is a sample list, covering a multitude of styles of music:-

Stone Roses, Marilyn Manson, Happy Mondays, KLF, REM, The Who, The Charlatans, Chuck Berry, Britney Spears, Jarvis Cocker, Oasis, ChumbaWumba, Snoop Dog, Jerry Lee Lewis, Carter The Unstoppable Sex Machine, virtually any punk band you care to mention, The Babyshambles and that waste of space Pete Docherty, Iggy Pop etc etc. All of these have been involved in scandals involving sex or drugs or violence or erratic ego fed behaviour. If you want to talk about bands that can’t get on with each other, how about ABBA, Fleetwood Mac, The Unicorns and Pink Floyd, all of whom suffered infighting and acrimonious breakups. And can you name me ONE boy band or girl band who haven’t broken up?

It really does seem to happen in every genre of music – maybe you’re just more sensitive to it happening in classic or melodic rock bands because you follow those bands more closely.

Perhaps instead of bemoaning their inability to get on with each other, we should be applauding their ability to keep going at all in the dog eat dog environment that is the music industry.

Maybe also there is a natural time limit for bands to stay together before they get on each other’s nerves. Most of the bands you are now complaining about did exist for some years in their original form before arguments broke out. Most bands currently in the charts haven’t been around long enough for that to happen, or else they have spilt up and disappeared without trace. Classic rock bands often tour more than many other music genres and that does take it’s toll on even the best of friendships.

Just another thought – maybe some bands mix and match their personnel on a regular basis as a consequence of the incessant touring. Some musicians like to try new things with other musicians they meet on the road. Can you imagine the loss to music if JSS for instance had stayed with just one band for his entire career? We certainly wouldn’t have the variety of music that exists in his back catalogue. Other bands like AC/DC keep their personnel static but then so does the music become static and unadventurous. A band like Rush is definitely the exception here – able to keep the same personnel for decades and still make fresh music.

Marty