Okay...who knows what?

[Moon Beam]

Sometimes it seems I'm two or three years ahead of everybody.

There's that attitude again, do you ever play nice Monker.

[JrnyScarab]

Correct. JSS had to go...or Jonathan, or Ross, or Deen...Cuz, it was not looking very much like Journey anymore. I could not see this band holding itself together. One side wanting to stay true to their past, and Neal wanting to move into a completely different direction. That was the conflict - and it looks like Neal lost the vote.

Man, I think Neal would tell Jon to take a hike if he didn't need the $$$$ to support his poor choices in life. Must suck knowing that it's your band but your hands are tied due to financial needs.

[7 Wishes]

As for Jeremy...if they hire him, they are going to turn Journey into laughing stock. Any tribute singer will not last to a second tour. What a joke that will be....and that is not a critique towards Jeremy either.

Why is that? Not everyone knows the plot to "Rock Star", you know. Ninety-five percent of the people who go to Journey shows don't know what we know. They want to see Journey doing the classics. If there's someone up there who sounds exactly like Perry, they're all that much more likely to go in the first place and keep coming back. Sorry, but as pissed off as I am for what they did and especially how they did it, the band's future is not tied into the opinion of the people on this board. It's with the promoters and the venues - and if they have a Perry soundalike to market, it's not going to matter.

And by the way, that IS a critique of Jeremey. Have you ever seen him perform live? Have you been granted the gift of prescience? Unless Deano drops the bomb and writes his book, all this shit we know, and how they screwed JSS, won't matter at all - regardless of how we feel. That's how the business works.

[Red13JoePa]

There was never a post-Perry Journey Monker.

No, there was never a post-Perry Journey for YOU.

The fact is that Journey needs a strong frontman because the Journey that all the hits are known for was built on the frontman. People can applaud Neal's guitar, Jon's keys, Ross's bass and Smitty's or Deen's drums to kingdom come, but they aren't what Journey was famous for. It was the frontman.

You're wrong. It was the SONGS. That is what Jonathan understands and said in that interview where he mentions the legacy.

Jeff isn't weak.

He's also not "Journey". That's been a problem from the beginning. Every direction he turned he had to convince somebody he was the right guy for the job.

In fact he's so strong that he made them afraid they might be overshadowed again.

Sure, that's why the band has done nothing but praise JSS for his live performances. I have never read a single critique from the band about how JSS fronted the band in concert. Overshadowed? YOU GUYS are the people who not too long ago were saying how much of a band they were again. Neal agreed in the interviews from a month or so ago. JSS overshadowed nobody...In fact, I would say he brought others into the spotlight, as it should be.

You're just making things up.

He had to go.

Correct. JSS had to go...or Jonathan, or Ross, or Deen...Cuz, it was not looking very much like Journey anymore. I could not see this band holding itself together. One side wanting to stay true to their past, and Neal wanting to move into a completely different direction. That was the conflict - and it looks like Neal lost the vote.

The guy singing can't be too weak to take the abuse, but he can't be so strong that he gets all the applause. Neal and Jon must be scratching their heads(or something) trying to come up with a way to keep milking the legacy without depending on the strength of a REAL frontman. ("Gee Butthead what do we do now?" "I don't know Beavis, I guess we just fuck ourselves again.")

If they think Jeremey is some weak patsy I'm afraid they're about to be fooled again.

The guy singing has to sound like Journey...JSS wasn't it. Obviously, whatever songwriting they did after the tour did not convince the rest of the band. The only one sold this entire time was Neal.

As for Jeremy...if they hire him, they are going to turn Journey into laughing stock. Any tribute singer will not last to a second tour. What a joke that will be....and that is not a critique towards Jeremy either.

Aside from the Jeremey (who I think will stick if hired he is that good) points this is one hell of a post by public enemy #1 here.

For all this time the band sings Jeff praises and now THIS quick POOF? Change their mind virtually overnight?

SOMETHING went wrong, be it an event or chain of events. It is personal.
And we do not know about it. Nor should we.
I just mourn the loss of a guy I thought could forward this thing for a good long while.

[Monker]

And by the way, that IS a critique of Jeremey.

No it's not. I don't care who it is...if they hire a tribute singer, then Journey is a joke. I don't care if it is Jeremy, or Hugo, or someone else. I am speaking in general terms here, not specificaly about Jeremy.

Unless Deano drops the bomb and writes his book, all this shit we know, and how they screwed JSS, won't matter at all - regardless of how we feel. That's how the business works.

Unless he self-publishes it, Dean would never get it released. Judging by how he writes when he posts, his writing sucks. If he self-publishes it, then it will not get nowhere near the exposure, or credibility.

It doesn't matter anyway, cuz I doubt very much that Dean would take the time out of his life to devote to it anyway.

[Monker]

Aside from the Jeremey (who I think will stick if hired he is that good) points this is one hell of a post by public enemy #1 here.

For all this time the band sings Jeff praises and now THIS quick POOF? Change their mind virtually overnight?

SOMETHING went wrong, be it an event or chain of events. It is personal.
And we do not know about it. Nor should we.
I just mourn the loss of a guy I thought could forward this thing for a good long while.

Hey, maybe during the Saprano's thing, they all got together and started talking, including Perry. Then Perry started feeling like part of the band again. But, the stone is cracked, and there is no turning back. Neal started listening to Chalfant's tribute album and

Fade to black.

[whocares]

does being so perfect (monker) ever get old?

[ArnelRox]

Hey, maybe during the Saprano's thing, they all got together and started talking, including Perry. Then Perry started feeling like part of the band again. But, the stone is cracked, and there is no turning back. Neal started listening to Chalfant's tribute album and

Fade to black.

Yeah right Monker Perry & the guys got together. Right Neal listened to Chalfant's album & decided to hire him.

Do u have ANY idea how much of a moron u have revealed urself to be w/this post? I know a forum where u will fit in just fine. TJF. Please go there.

U are really outdoing urself tonite w/this BS. Do u have ANY working brain cells at all?

[ArnelRox]

Unless he self-publishes it, Dean would never get it released. Judging by how he writes when he posts, his writing sucks. If he self-publishes it, then it will not get nowhere near the exposure, or credibility.

It doesn't matter anyway, cuz I doubt very much that Dean would take the time out of his life to devote to it anyway.

Ya think huh? Can u really get any more wrong today?

Well thanks for the laughs.

[ArnelRox]

I'm sure JSS was seeing $$$$ as soon as they called him in for the gig for the DL Tour.

Do u work for free then? Get real. Everyone wants a job that pays them.

Way I see it, Jeff spent so much time here, at BT, & other forums, talking to fans & doing FREE PR for the band that he couldn't have been paid enough to cover his time!

to say they fired him because he "stole all the limelight off of them" is completly ridiculous.

Ya think huh? Think again ok. Go read what Brian May said today & read what is in Dean's blog (click the pic in my sig). Ur young. Surely ur brain cells still work, right?

maybe Journey did the right thing for the band and keep the legacy going to their natural sound whether than going into a different direction.

Oh yeah. Absolutely. Only problem is THE natural sound is Steve Perry. He ain't coming back. So what now? Play tapes of Perry & use a hologram? Wait, maybe u mean they will just play their instruments & not bother w/a singer. Yeah cool! U really are a deep thinker, huh?

Enjoy the county fairs! They have some good food at some. Sample all the tents dude.

I guess it's best for them to fire JSS now, rather than 2 years down the road.

Finally. We agree on something. It had to happen.

[ArnelRox]

I must be special. I called him & he answered right away. Na na na na na.

Well, he's bent at me that I plan to continue being a fan and he's tweaked out over that.

& u think that's strange?

[ArnelRox]

You're wrong. It was the SONGS. That is what Jonathan understands and said in that interview where he mentions the legacy.

In another interview he mentioned that Journey revolved around Steve Perry's voice singing the songs. In the interview where he talked about the songs recently, wasnt he referring to DSB on the Sopranos? Um whose voice was on that song? Oh yeah it was Steve Perry. Holy shit. Let's go back to his first reference to it being about THE VOICE!

He's also not "Journey". That's been a problem from the beginning. Every direction he turned he had to convince somebody he was the right guy for the job.

That's ur opinion. A lot of professional journalists, concert-goers, members here & at other forums felt differently about him being "Journey". Neal Schon himself said he hadnt seen this kind of excitement since Perry.

As for him convincing people, no. He tried to unite the fans. Now I know that's something very foreign to u. U just like to disagree & cause problems. But Jeff actually succeeded in uniting a lot more fans than had ever occurred since Perry left the band. He brought in loons, wigglers, casual fans, etc. Tell me, Monker, exactly how many times did u see Jeff w/the band? & at what point in his brief tenure? I talked to a lot of fans in Nov. who were extremely excited about him. I talked to a LOT of people since who felt the same way. & not just here on MR. In REAL LIFE. I happen to have one of those, do u?

Sure, that's why the band has done nothing but praise JSS for his live performances. I have never read a single critique from the band about how JSS fronted the band in concert.

Did u miss Andrew's interviews w/Neal, Jon & Deen?

JSS overshadowed nobody...In fact, I would say he brought others into the spotlight, as it should be.

U sure about that? U sure he wasnt stealing all Neal's thunder & getting people to rally around him, the singer, instead of the Guitar God himself? He didnt set out to do that, nor did Augeri. But the fact of the matter is, for almost every band, it's the singer that gets the crowd going. There are a few exceptions. But not many. Do u know any people outside of Journey forums by any chance? If so, ask them about a few bands. I dunno. Styx, Boston, Foreigner, REO, Journey, Chicago, etc. See if they know any of the names of the people in the band? See if they know the singer's name. See if they know if the singer was replaced or not. Check it out. Let me know what happens.

You're just making things up.

She is? Or are u?

it was not looking very much like Journey anymore.

What does Journey look like? Randy Jackson in spandex? Neal, Perry, Ross w/long hair? Smitty w/hair or w/out? Castro's fuzzy head? Rolie? Fleischman? Augeri? Please describe what Journey looks like. I'd be fascinated to hear. B/c it seems to me they have looked VERY different over the past 30 yrs.

One side wanting to stay true to their past, and Neal wanting to move into a completely different direction. That was the conflict - and it looks like Neal lost the vote.

Hmm. What did that press release say again about directions? Please dont tell me u dont believe their official statements. NO WAY! We all know they are gospel, right?

The guy singing has to sound like Journey...JSS wasn't it.

Jeff didnt sound like Journey to U. I think thats what u meant here. While ur describing what Journey looks like, please tell me what they sound like. I think it might be Steve Perry to most people. But wait! A lot of fans havent known that Perry wasnt up there singing even when it was Augeri or Soto. Maybe it just sounds like the songs. Wait. U said that earlier. If it sounds like the songs, then what does it matter who is singing? I'm confused Monker. Ur contradicting urself a lot tonite.

Obviously, whatever songwriting they did after the tour did not convince the rest of the band.

Ok I'm confused again. After what tour? The one in the US w/Def Leppard? Or the one in Europe this yr? Or Talisman's tour? Oh wait, Jeff is still on tour w/Talisman, albeit on hiatus at this very moment. When was there time for writing? Oh yeah in the bus. But those werent finished songs according to JSS, just ideas. Neal said that too. Cain said he hadnt written w/Jeff. Jeff said they would be sitting down to write in late June. Is it late June already? My computer is so messed up. It tells me it's June 15, that's mid-June, right? So how did they do this songwriting exactly? & When? Enlighten me please. I need help.

, they are going to turn Journey into laughing stock.

So I guess he doesnt look or sound like Journey either then. Gee, a guy who has played in a tribute band for yrs doesnt sound like Journey. Who does then? I'm confused. He's white w/short dark hair. Damn Perry was white w/short dark hair in the BTM special, wasnt he? Did he look like Journey? If Jeremey grew his hair would he look like Journey? Will a mullet work? Or do u want the long hair of the 70s or the shorter Frontiers do? Or does he need long curls like Augeri? Man I'm pretty confused. I hope u explain. I feel so dumb right about now.

Any tribute singer will not last to a second tour. What a joke that will be

But u would like Kevin Chalfant up there even tho he did a tribute Journey album? That's ok, but singing in a tribute band isnt?

I'm so confused. Let me try to recap this. It's about the songs so the singer doesnt matter. No wait it's about the way the singer looks & sounds. They have to look like Journey. But Journey has had so many different looks. Which one is Journey? Tribute singers are bad. No, tribute singers are good. It's the extent of the tribute singing they do? One CD & songs here & there in different bands/appearances is ok. Having ur own tribute band isnt.

My head is spinning. Can anyone translate this for me please?

[Matthew]

Obviously, whatever songwriting they did after the tour did not convince the rest of the band. The only one sold this entire time was Neal.

This is an interesting point. Yes, Winds of Freedom was written in a rush and it was for a specific event - but equally it wasn't nearly as inspired as many of us were hoping it would be. I wonder if they worked on any other tracks together....

[Rockindeano]

Obviously, whatever songwriting they did after the tour did not convince the rest of the band. The only one sold this entire time was Neal.

This is an interesting point. Yes, Winds of Freedom was written in a rush and it was for a specific event - but equally it wasn't nearly as inspired as many of us were hoping it would be. I wonder if they worked on any other tracks together....

Yes. They did, sort of. Jeff sure as Hell did.

Winds of Freedom was written by the Bitch and jeff added some lyrics....Bitch wrote it in his bubble bath while overlooking the Open Arms pool in Marin County. The Bitch has some dough, but no cock.

[Monker]

Hey, maybe during the Saprano's thing, they all got together and started talking, including Perry. Then Perry started feeling like part of the band again. But, the stone is cracked, and there is no turning back. Neal started listening to Chalfant's tribute album and

Fade to black.

Yeah right Monker Perry & the guys got together. Right Neal listened to Chalfant's album & decided to hire him.

Do u have ANY idea how much of a moron u have revealed urself to be w/this post? I know a forum where u will fit in just fine. TJF. Please go there.

U are really outdoing urself tonite w/this BS. Do u have ANY working brain cells at all?

What would I do with a brain if I had one?

Maybe let you borrow it since all I was doing is making a Sapranos joke.

[Red13JoePa]

I must be special. I called him & he answered right away. Na na na na na.

Well, he's bent at me that I plan to continue being a fan and he's tweaked out over that.

& u think that's strange?

No, just an observation.

You're strange though, if that helps.

[Pelata]

as pissed off as I am for what they did and especially how they did it, the band's future is not tied into the opinion of the people on this board.

Very true...

[Socratic Methodist]

Hey Monker.....

This is THE original Art Vandelay from BT, and 'The Cooler'....How ya been.

Just wanted to say hello. I hear you've been banned from quite a few forums yourself.

Cj really knew how to crack that whip....

[Lora]

BTW, could you answer a question on the mailing list about why the Force and SPIN closed down? Someone is saying they closed as part of the deal to get the TBF reunion going...That doesn't make sense to me because I thought the Force ended prior to TBF, and SPIN lasted well into the recording of TBF?

We continued Journey Force well after Journey had disbanded. We were covering everyone's solo work for awhile (Bad English, The Storm, Hardline, etc) but the decision was made to close the fan club as there was no "Journey" any longer. We started S.P.I.N. after Journey Force was shut down and continued until the TBF reunion. We then closed S.P.I.N. with the intent to fire up Journey Force again. The band was interested but their manager (Azoff) was not so that is why the fan club did not start up again.

[Carlitto H@kk]

We then closed S.P.I.N. with the intent to fire up Journey Force again. The band was interested but their manager (Azoff) was not so that is why the fan club did not start up again.

What???
Management not interested in keeping the
hardcore fans involved???
Say it ain't so

[ArnelRox]

What would I do with a brain if I had one?

Maybe let you borrow it since all I was doing is making a Sapranos joke.

"Sapranos". That's twice so it's not a typo. Learn to spell the name of the show AT LEAST if u wanna make a joke. It's The Sopranos. Get it?

[Monker]

Hey Monker.....

This is THE original Art Vandelay from BT, and 'The Cooler'....How ya been.

Just wanted to say hello. I hear you've been banned from quite a few forums yourself.

Cj really knew how to crack that whip....

I got kicked off BT for arguing politics in the WC. Journeycat let me back on - cuz there was NO reason for me to be kicked off in the first place. I then got kicked off of CJ's Watercooler side forum, cuz I was tired of the favortism that was shown and didn't care if I got kicked off.

Years and years ago, I got kicked off the mailing list several times by Dan because I did not like what the list had become and said so on the list...and I think I made Dan pretty frustrated. That's history and the list has gone through a long dry spell and is finally starting to come back again.

I have no issues with Andrew or this forum...again, I'm not going to get into anything said in Email between us - that's not me'ish.

[Socratic Methodist]

Hey Monker.....

This is THE original Art Vandelay from BT, and 'The Cooler'....How ya been.

Just wanted to say hello. I hear you've been banned from quite a few forums yourself.

Cj really knew how to crack that whip....

I got kicked off BT for arguing politics in the WC. Journeycat let me back on - cuz there was NO reason for me to be kicked off in the first place. I then got kicked off of CJ's Watercooler side forum, cuz I was tired of the favortism that was shown and didn't care if I got kicked off.

Years and years ago, I got kicked off the mailing list several times by Dan because I did not like what the list had become and said so on the list...and I think I made Dan pretty frustrated. That's history and the list has gone through a long dry spell and is finally starting to come back again.

I have no issues with Andrew or this forum...again, I'm not going to get into anything said in Email between us - that's not me'ish.

Dude, I was just saying hi, and wondering if you remembered me....tis all.

I was kicked off both for arguing politics as well....oh, and shooting my mouth off about SA. Always was in some sort of heated debate with that female who thought she had multiple degrees in Forensic debate......

Cheers.....

[Monker]

BTW, could you answer a question on the mailing list about why the Force and SPIN closed down? Someone is saying they closed as part of the deal to get the TBF reunion going...That doesn't make sense to me because I thought the Force ended prior to TBF, and SPIN lasted well into the recording of TBF?

We continued Journey Force well after Journey had disbanded. We were covering everyone's solo work for awhile (Bad English, The Storm, Hardline, etc) but the decision was made to close the fan club as there was no "Journey" any longer. We started S.P.I.N. after Journey Force was shut down and continued until the TBF reunion. We then closed S.P.I.N. with the intent to fire up Journey Force again. The band was interested but their manager (Azoff) was not so that is why the fan club did not start up again.

Thank you...that's interesting. Kind of a bad decision by Azoff. Doesn't make sense why he would not want an oficial fan club.

[Socratic Methodist]

BTW, could you answer a question on the mailing list about why the Force and SPIN closed down? Someone is saying they closed as part of the deal to get the TBF reunion going...That doesn't make sense to me because I thought the Force ended prior to TBF, and SPIN lasted well into the recording of TBF?

We continued Journey Force well after Journey had disbanded. We were covering everyone's solo work for awhile (Bad English, The Storm, Hardline, etc) but the decision was made to close the fan club as there was no "Journey" any longer. We started S.P.I.N. after Journey Force was shut down and continued until the TBF reunion. We then closed S.P.I.N. with the intent to fire up Journey Force again. The band was interested but their manager (Azoff) was not so that is why the fan club did not start up again.

Thank you...that's interesting. Kind of a bad decision by Azoff. Doesn't make sense why he would not want an oficial fan club.

Probably because he didn't want anybody to know that Friga and Fro OFFICIALLY sucked arse.....

[conversationpc]

I was kicked off both for arguing politics as well....oh, and shooting my mouth off about SA. Always was in some sort of heated debate with that female who thought she had multiple degrees in Forensic debate......

Would that be navyblue or whatever her name was? Robin, maybe? She's the one who claimed to be "in love with a Navy Seal" or something like that.

[Monker]

You're wrong. It was the SONGS. That is what Jonathan understands and said in that interview where he mentions the legacy.

In another interview he mentioned that Journey revolved around Steve Perry's voice singing the songs. In the interview where he talked about the songs recently, wasnt he referring to DSB on the Sopranos? Um whose voice was on that song? Oh yeah it was Steve Perry. Holy shit. Let's go back to his first reference to it being about THE VOICE!

The bottom line is that if it was not all about the SONGS, Journey would not lasted ten years without Perry. Even today, they would not be on hiatus if they had not acted with such stupidity. In fact, you and others here were 100% behind JSS being in the band, arguing with me at how well he fit. If it were all about Perry, you would have been arguing against JSS being in the band.

That's ur opinion. A lot of professional journalists, concert-goers, members here & at other forums felt differently about him being "Journey". Neal Schon himself said he hadnt seen this kind of excitement since Perry.

Which I believe is over-hyped BS. There is NO WAY you can quantify how popular JSS was.

As for him convincing people, no. He tried to unite the fans.

LOL...maybe, but the way that he was brought into the band made that an impossible. Even he said in reply to some of my posts on TJF that how people reacted to this and that was beyond his control...and that is true.

Now I know that's something very foreign to u. U just like to disagree & cause problems.

No, I like to speak my mind. If you don't like it, that's your problem and not mine.

But Jeff actually succeeded in uniting a lot more fans than had ever occurred since Perry left the band.

There is absolutely no evidence of that...and I don't believe it's true.

He brought in loons, wigglers, casual fans, etc.

And, others left...and there is no way you can put a number on either side.

Tell me, Monker, exactly how many times did u see Jeff w/the band? & at what point in his brief tenure? I talked to a lot of fans in Nov. who were extremely excited about him. I talked to a LOT of people since who felt the same way. & not just here on MR. In REAL LIFE. I happen to have one of those, do u?

None of the above matters...even my 'real life', and yours. Again, it's a case of inventing 'facts' to back up what you want to be true. You don't know how many people out there in the 'real world' REALLY supported JSS in Journey - nobody does.

U sure about that? U sure he wasnt stealing all Neal's thunder & getting people to rally around him, the singer, instead of the Guitar God himself?

Oh, please. Go back and read Dean's blog. Cuz, that's the only place crap like this would come from. A few months ago, you all were saying it was the happiest you have seen the band in years...even the band said that. Now you turncoats want me to believe Neal was pissed that JSS was getting too much attention. What a bunch of crap.

He didnt set out to do that, nor did Augeri. But the fact of the matter is, for almost every band, it's the singer that gets the crowd going. There are a few exceptions. But not many. Do u know any people outside of Journey forums by any chance? If so, ask them about a few bands. I dunno. Styx, Boston, Foreigner, REO, Journey, Chicago, etc. See if they know any of the names of the people in the band? See if they know the singer's name. See if they know if the singer was replaced or not. Check it out. Let me know what happens.

Why would I do that? I already know that nobody cares about those thiings. I've argued that point ON THESE FORUMS.

What does Journey look like? Randy Jackson in spandex? Neal, Perry, Ross w/long hair? Smitty w/hair or w/out? Castro's fuzzy head? Rolie? Fleischman? Augeri? Please describe what Journey looks like. I'd be fascinated to hear. B/c it seems to me they have looked VERY different over the past 30 yrs.

Ok, Fyre

Hmm. What did that press release say again about directions? Please dont tell me u dont believe their official statements. NO WAY! We all know they are gospel, right?

It says they want to sound like their 65million albums that have sold...And, in the past, Neal has said he wants to change direction for the band. Obviously, Neal lost that argument.

Jeff didnt sound like Journey to U.

Yep...and a lot of other people too.

While ur describing what Journey looks like, please tell me what they sound like. I think it might be Steve Perry to most people. But wait! A lot of fans havent known that Perry wasnt up there singing even when it was Augeri or Soto. Maybe it just sounds like the songs. Wait. U said that earlier. If it sounds like the songs, then what does it matter who is singing? I'm confused Monker. Ur contradicting urself a lot tonite.

Let me put it this way. People have said that JSS is like a chameleon and can change his voice to fit the song that he sings. Journey does not need a chameleon...it needs somebody who has that sound naturaly.

When was there time for writing? Oh yeah in the bus.

Exactly...the stuff that Dean REPEATEDLY said would 'blow our minds'. Obviously, nothing blew the minds of anybody else in the band.

So I guess he doesnt look or sound like Journey either then.

Irrelevant. "he" (Jeremy) is a Perry impersonator in a tribute band. Going that route is the most ridiculous idea since the idea of bringing in Hugo after TBF.

But u would like Kevin Chalfant up there even tho he did a tribute Journey album? That's ok, but singing in a tribute band isnt?

Give that a rest. I just made a post this week that said I wouldn't wish that curse on KC. I do NOT want him in Journey - and haven't since they went with Augeri for TBF.

[Socratic Methodist]

I was kicked off both for arguing politics as well....oh, and shooting my mouth off about SA. Always was in some sort of heated debate with that female who thought she had multiple degrees in Forensic debate......

Would that be navyblue or whatever her name was? Robin, maybe? She's the one who claimed to be "in love with a Navy Seal" or something like that.

Yep....that's her.

Got me banned.....

[conversationpc]

I was kicked off both for arguing politics as well....oh, and shooting my mouth off about SA. Always was in some sort of heated debate with that female who thought she had multiple degrees in Forensic debate......

Would that be navyblue or whatever her name was? Robin, maybe? She's the one who claimed to be "in love with a Navy Seal" or something like that.

Yep....that's her.

Got me banned.....

I won't say she didn't know her stuff, because she was fairly knowledgeable but she definitely wasn't a pro. I still remember the last debate I was in with her where she accused Dean of making a statement of some kind and she claimed that he meant something different. He clarified the statement and she just would not admit she was wrong no matter what he said. She got pretty mean and nasty that time around.