NO PERRY

[Sassie]

Even if everything you say about Steve Perry is true. You are using something that happened 20 years ago and judging him by those actions now. People change and mature. I would venture to bet he is not the same person he was 20 years ago. I'm sure not. How about you?

[Matthew]

My reply was exactly that HE, Mr. Steve Perry, already did that. Just facts not opinions.
For what it's worth, I hate downtuning. That's my opinion. But it's a lot better than lip-synching. If you can't sing those songs in the proper key, skip them. Just listen to The Police and their treatment of "Every Little Thing she does is magic". It's pure shit downtuned. Just skip the song, where is the problem recognizing you don't have the voice you had 20 yrs ago?

It doesn't actually bother me at all, Ddregs. In fact, I like to see veteran artists reinvent their old material. For example, Robert Plant sings in a lower key now - and he performs the old classics with different arrangements. So I'd say down-tuning can work - but it needs a bit of imagination too.

He was the sinner in the way he treated Steve Smith and Ross Valory. and this is a fact.

Really? This whole period still seems pretty vague to me. Valory's life was in chaos...Smith was feeling restricted in the band and wanted to pursue a jazz career...and was maybe acting like a precious egomaniac during ROR..the atmosphere in the band was terrible. Who knows what the 'facts' are?

- rejoining the band when Kevin Chalfant was prospected as being the new singer (but who am I to accuse anyone)

The band were under contract to deliver one more album and the record company rightly wanted Perry to be on this album. Chalfant was only considered because he sounds like Perry anyway.

- refusing to tour for his true hip-injury

I agree that Perry could have handled this much, much better than he did.

putting out old Journey records (Greatest Hits Live, Greatest Hits dvd, Escape Live and the list goes on) whenever the new lineup was about doing something (Arrival / Generations , Live, and so on). Call it bad timing or been done on purposal?

Why would generating publicity for classic Journey hurt the sales of new Journey records? And why is it a 'sin' to look after and maintain the extraordinary back catalogue sales which will be listened to long after the band stop touring? Was the DVD of the Greatest Hits or 1981 concert bad for the group or for the fans?

In fact he could be even worse for what he did to Journey and fans leaving the band without notice in 1987

He told Cain and Schon - face to face - that he couldn't go on. He was burnt out. Possibly even having a breakdown. This might not have suited you - but we can hardly judge the guy for needing to step away from it all at that time.

[Gibby]

Ddregs, I stand corrected. I completely forgot about the 1998 Bill Graham event and I knew nothing about the downtuning of the Journey songs on his solo tour. I agree that tuning down a song can completely ruin it. I remember listening to the 1998 dropped tuning boot of Lights and it sounded funny. That was almost 10 years ago - maybe today they'd have to drop it even further.

[amaron]

He told Cain and Schon - face to face - that he couldn't go on. He was burnt out. Possibly even having a breakdown. This might not have suited you - but we can hardly judge the guy for needing to step away from it all at that time.

And with his mother passing, I fully understood why he couldn't continue.

But for 10 years?

[Matthew]

He told Cain and Schon - face to face - that he couldn't go on. He was burnt out. Possibly even having a breakdown. This might not have suited you - but we can hardly judge the guy for needing to step away from it all at that time.

And with his mother passing, I fully understood why he couldn't continue.

But for 10 years?

It wasn't just about his mother though, was it? Tour burn out...a freefall in record sales...unresolved psychological problems....disillusionment with his record company...wanting to relax and enjoy his millions for the first time....bored stiff of spending all his time with Cain and Schon...the decline of melodic rock in general....loads of possible reasons....

[Matthew]

Ddregs, I stand corrected. I completely forgot about the 1998 Bill Graham event and I knew nothing about the downtuning of the Journey songs on his solo tour. I agree that tuning down a song can completely ruin it. I remember listening to the 1998 dropped tuning boot of Lights and it sounded funny. That was almost 10 years ago - maybe today they'd have to drop it even further.

Actually...I think that was 16 years ago....

I thought he sounded great...it was the unresponsive crowd that made that performance so depressing....

[ddregs]

He told Cain and Schon - face to face - that he couldn't go on. He was burnt out. Possibly even having a breakdown. This might not have suited you - but we can hardly judge the guy for needing to step away from it all at that time.

And with his mother passing, I fully understood why he couldn't continue.

But for 10 years?

It wasn't just about his mother though, was it? Tour burn out...a freefall in record sales...unresolved psychological problems....disillusionment with his record company...wanting to relax and enjoy his millions for the first time....bored stiff of spending all his time with Cain and Schon...the decline of melodic rock in general....loads of possible reasons....

Yeah everything. Just about the same reasons and the same sources we have to not believe him.
Schon created one of the best melodic records without him and Cain , Late Nite is still beautiful today. Bad English sounds great to my ears.
Against the Wall (which year was it I don't recall, but maybe it's just a few years ahead his mother's death) is a bad record, FTLOSM can be a great record to Perry longtime fans but I hate it. Bought as soon as I heard You Better Wait to discover it was one of the 2 rockers on the record. Slow ballad, elevator music.
But back to the point: I think the release of Greatest Hits live and the sort of it really hurt Journey new records and didn't help them at all.
I still think he's got rights and underground stuff we don't know. I still think his way of getting out of the boat wasn't a pleasure to us fans. You may have the best reason (and he had!) but then you can communicate with the fans. Just look at how Sting closed The Police chapter after 1984. Dignity, that it is.
And I believe Steve Smith has been cancelled by Perry in 1986 and not by "his problems" or his want to play jazz. He already played jazz/fusion in 1976 with Jean-Luc Ponty, that reason is not allowed at all.

[Red13JoePa]

FTLOSM can be a great record to Perry longtime fans but I hate it. Bought as soon as I heard You Better Wait to discover it was one of the 2 rockers on the record. Slow ballad, elevator music.

True. So true.

But admittedly FTLOSM has grown on me. It's not immediately accessible to the ear I guess but I've listened about 10 times since I got the remaster and I'm finding stuff to enjoy there.

[conversationpc]

FTLOSM can be a great record to Perry longtime fans but I hate it. Bought as soon as I heard You Better Wait to discover it was one of the 2 rockers on the record. Slow ballad, elevator music.

True. So true.

But admittedly FTLOSM has grown on me. It's not immediately accessible to the ear I guess but I've listened about 10 times since I got the remaster and I'm finding stuff to enjoy there.

I actually like it better than "Street Talk". It doesn't have an instantly recognizable track like "Oh Sherrie" but I think it's more consistent.

[Red13JoePa]

Street Talk's definately a better rocknroll record. FTLOSM has good mood and blues stuff though. Darker overall feel, of course.

[conversationpc]

Street Talk's definately a better rocknroll record. FTLOSM has good mood and blues stuff though. Darker overall feel, of course.

Nah, I've always thought FTLOSM, despite the ballads, was more of a rock album and that ST was more of a pop album.

[Red13JoePa]

Well now it definately rocks harder w/ Friends Of Mine added. That's a KICKass tune, shocked the hell out of me coming on the end of FTLOSM.

[conversationpc]

Well now it definately rocks harder w/ Friends Of Mine added. That's a KICKass tune, shocked the hell out of me coming on the end of FTLOSM.

I need to get my ass to the store and buy his solo remasters.

[Matthew]

elevator music.

Says the fan of Schon's smooth jazz solo albums....

But back to the point: I think the release of Greatest Hits live and the sort of it really hurt Journey new records and didn't help them at all.

What about the DVDs of classic Journey? Or the remastered back catalogue? Sorry...but I just can't see why you have a problem with these releases.

Journey have only themselves to blame for the scandals, controversies and commercial failures since 1998.

I still think his way of getting out of the boat wasn't a pleasure to us fans.

Of course not. The band broke up. Fans will be disappointed. This happens to 99% of all groups and fans....

You may have the best reason (and he had!) but then you can communicate with the fans.

Perry communicates directly to his fans every year. More than you can say for Journey....

And I believe Steve Smith has been cancelled by Perry in 1986 and not by "his problems" or his want to play jazz. He already played jazz/fusion in 1976 with Jean-Luc Ponty, that reason is not allowed at all.

Why was he fired then? And if he had 'already done' jazz why he he return to his jazz career twice? Why does he still play it to this day?

[Red13JoePa]

Yea, fork over, DaveCT.

Can't Stop is excellent, too.


Street Talk has some Alien Project tracks that have a bluesy, Rolie era Journey feel now too.

Hell, even Greatest Hit, A lesser Hit, Some Album Cuts, And Some Songs The Record Company Was Afraid To Release has Don't Fight It, which I thought was a throwaway (Loggins ?) until I get to the song and hear what sounds like Neil Giraldo on guitar.

It was.

[Carlitto H@kk]

Well now it definately rocks harder w/ Friends Of Mine added. That's a KICKass tune, shocked the hell out of me coming on the end of FTLOSM.

I need to get my ass to the store and buy his solo remasters.

You NEED to ad Systematic Chaos
to that stack while you're shopping, Dave!
It's grown quite well on me
in the past week

[JohnH]

Maybe I didn't get the tone of your post, but sir, that's exactly what he heavily did in his 1994 solo tour. He downtuned all Journey hits in order to sing them.

So what if he did? What's the big deal about downtuning? You make it sound like it's as bad as lip-synching or something....

I'm sorry but the thing that bugs me now is SP coming out as the saint while he was the sinner (ok , not the only one, but the most important for sure)

When was he the sinner? In 1997 maybe...but in '87 he had understandable and legitimate reasons to walk away. Other than the TBF shambles he did wonders for this band and has retained his dignity and integrity. Sorry if that sticks in your throat but that's just the way it is.

Perhaps what's really bugging you now is that the band have just openly admitted that their identity is completely wrapped up in the song-writing and the sound Perry brought to this group? Let's face it.... they are as devoted to the guy as much as the most hardened Loon.

What's the big deal about downtuning?

It sounds like s***t. If people can go to a show and still get off on it, that's fine. But they are not hearing the true tonal qualities of the song. Tuning down a half step is not a big deal (like Glenn Hughes does). But at the Bill Graham show, the band were tuning down farther than that, (like Bob Seger is now). Once you tune down a full step or more forget it. Seger still can't hit high notes, even tuned down.

[ddregs]

elevator music.

Says the fan of Schon's smooth jazz solo albums....

Late Nite is everything but smooth jazz. Listen to Rain's Coming Down, it rocks harder than everything Perry ever did. And it's a fantastic track. Omar Hakim drums on the record are among the best drumming I ever enjoyed. I didn't mention the other Schon records (while I love Beyond the Thunder your comment may apply from there to the late): elevator music.

What about the DVDs of classic Journey? Or the remastered back catalogue? Sorry...but I just can't see why you have a problem with these releases.

Journey have only themselves to blame for the scandals, controversies and commercial failures since 1998.

Well, Perry did hurt them back in 1987 for whatever reason, did hurt them with the Trial By Fire tour cancellation and still hurts them with released records with super-fantastic timings. Imagine the casual fan going to the record shop and seeing 2 new Journey records, a greatest hits live and another one Arrival, new. Imagine what he's going to buy if he has to pick one

Perry communicates directly to his fans every year. More than you can say for Journey....

At least this time you were right. Just reading his new message clearing and sorting out things. Wonder why he didn't do one back in 1987 leaving us cold.

And I believe Steve Smith has been cancelled by Perry in 1986 and not by "his problems" or his want to play jazz. He already played jazz/fusion in 1976 with Jean-Luc Ponty, that reason is not allowed at all.

Why was he fired then? And if he had 'already done' jazz why he he return to his jazz career twice? Why does he still play it to this day?

That's his favorite kind of music. He studied to play that and still does that, that's his choice and a constant to his life. He's as versatile as no one else. But I insist he was kicked out by the band and mostly Perry back then; there was an interview on the net saying he already recorded drum tracks for ROR, he was called without the band backing up, he showed up at the studio playing to a click and every time the management told him he wasn't able to play along a drum machine and that, and that was no good. They made him feel so unable and sorry to play. Perry then decided to bring in Larrie Londin who worked with him on Street Talk, then auditioned lots of drummers (a lot of high-profile drummers, including the best, just to choose Mike Beard.... it was so sad when you read names like Chad Wackerman , Vinnie Colaiuta and then Mike Beard was picked.... ) to play for the tour.
Now, my final comment is: Steve Smith is among the best drummers in the world, he's just as much an authority in the field as Steve Perry is among singers. It sounds so weird reading "he was unable to play along drum machines" when he was chosen by musicians to replace drum machines (listen to Michael Manring record Thonk , his interview was "I pre-programmed rhythms on my computer , so complex , I could only pick one drummer to play properly: Steve Smith"). It was complete and utter bullshit. Being a drummer myself I really smell shit thrown at him. But then, you are right in saying Perry wasn't the only responsable; unfortunately he was the guy who had complete control in ROR sessions so he was the most responsable.

[Matthew]

Late Nite is everything but smooth jazz. Listen to Rain's Coming Down, it rocks harder than everything Perry ever did. And it's a fantastic track. Omar Hakim drums on the record are among the best drumming I ever enjoyed. I didn't mention the other Schon records (while I love Beyond the Thunder your comment may apply from there to the late): elevator music.

Fair enough, Ddregs....

Well, Perry did hurt them back in 1987 for whatever reason, did hurt them with the Trial By Fire tour cancellation and still hurts them with released records with super-fantastic timings. Imagine the casual fan going to the record shop and seeing 2 new Journey records, a greatest hits live and another one Arrival, new. Imagine what he's going to buy if he has to pick one

Fitstly...correct me if I'm wrong...but there were no releases of classic Journey material in 2001 when Arrival was released.

And what about the live shows? Are you seriously telling me that Journey's revenue from touring the Greatest Hits was hurt by the release of...the Greatest Hits?

. Wonder why he didn't do one back in 1987 leaving us cold.

Er...maybe he was a different person twenty years ago? You might be able to go around in circles with the same old resentments for years on end but maybe this guy moved on and made some positive changes in his life in the meantime?

They made him feel so unable and sorry to play.:

Except he did play on three tracks perfectly well. Have you considered that the mid-80s were an incredibly difficult and frustrating time for all drummers? Some of them just got on with it. Whereas others - like Smith perhaps - threw a big strop about it all.

Don't get me wrong - I love Smith and respect him enormously. But surely he played at least some part in his own departure? I don't quite buy your 'poor little victim' interpretation.

I'm with you on Baird though. That was a surprising choice - but I guess the basic drum dracks were in vogue in those days and Baird was happy to keep it as simple as possible without behaving like a diva about it.