Has Jeremey actually AUDITIONED yet?

[Saint John]

That's what I HATE about celebs. They ARE considered "Heroes". Like Geddy Lee said.."Look..we're musicians...it's not that noble a pursuit". And that's true. The REAL Heroes are the people like Chief and Haak mentioned. Celebs are SHIT. All these people keeping democracy together, saving lives, etc etc ARE THE REAL HEROES.

Can't we maybe agree that there's a heirachy of heroes? You know...soldiers and firefighters at the top of the list...then Steve Perry...then maybe a charity woerker or something?

I won't deny that I hold some people in the music business in higher reguard than others...but HERO just ain't the word I like to use when you're dealing with someone who's, let's say, a GREAT Guitarist..but a shitty human being.

THAT is the point! It's the guitar WORK that's to be admired. Guitar hero.

Ultimately, my wife is a bigger hero than anyone on this board. I watched her give birth 3 times. In my estimation GIVING LIFE is just as noble as anyone saving another's.

I knew you'd go there. Your wife giving birth 3 times in NO way makes her a hero. Nurturing, caring for, educating, guiding and loving those children will make her a MOTHER. The Mexicans pouring over our borders having 5, 6 and 7 kids that drop out of school, sell drugs and join gangs is disgusting. These breeders, perpetuating poverty as a lifestyle are NOT heroes. They're borderline criminals. It doesn't take a whole lot of common sense to realize that if Pepe is cutting grass for a living making $6.50 an hour that Rosalita should keep her fucking legs closed or use birth control. But do the majority of them think of that? Fuck no. Americans that DO speak the language and get decent jobs will pay for Little Pepe's healthcare, so when he's throwing gang signs and gets shot, he'll get treated at the hospital. Fuckin' disgusting.

More shock value? Just how much alcohol have you consumed? What is your obsession with Mexicans? I think you secretly have a crush on a cute little senorita and just can't bring yourself to admitting it.

BTW my wife's COLOMBIAN - and LEGAL. And my point was that GIVING LIFE is just as noble as saving one. Obviously this is much too deep of a thought for this board!

Another BTW the police and immigration were going on little raids last Saturday. They entered a friend's home who was housing her 2 illegal brothers from Mexico (and why not - she's illegal, too!). Anyway, they permitted the police to enter their home which they were NOT obligated to do since the police HAD NO WARRANT - of course, the police know this but they know if they're sufficiently imposing then people will comply through fear. They said they were looking for some "bad" person. Right. Then they asked her brothers if their documents were legal. Out of fear they honestly answered, "No." They're now in Kentucky being processed to be shipped back to Mexico. Our friend was asked about her documents and she wisely LIED and said they were NOT false. Why not lie? She was being illegally questioned! Of course, the police will say she invited them in therefore the question wasn't illegal. Nice way to twist theings! Anyway, I thought you'd like that story. It's nice to know our HEROES are out there using fear in order to trick people. I suppose you'll say that that's OK since they're only tricking criminals.

Interesting how people just assign the label "hero" to ALL policemen when clearly they are capable of anything but. A policeman here recently killed his pregnant wife! I knew another that ran a modeling agency that he used to lure young girls for his sick pleasure.

Ultimately, it's a QUALITY that makes one a hero. It's not the uniform one wears or the position one holds. Sometimes we're heroes and we don't even know it. A guy recently told me in the men's room at work that he had taken a bad turn in life and "slipped" (I think something to do with substance abuse) but thanks to me he's now back on track. He mentioned that he was sure that I had no idea what I'd done to help him. And he was right. I have no idea. He was embarassed and wouldn't talk about it any further. I was stunned. Somehow in some way I was his hero for what he needed at some moment in his life. That's fine by me. I don't feel any different. I'm glad I could help.

I think that's why we're here. To help and serve each other. I don't think you need a badge or uniform in order to do that.

Let me first start by saying that I was NOT grouping your wife in with illegal aliens. I see how you could have read it that way and I apologize that it was written poorly. As for the "illegal" raid or whatever it is that you're talking about, I'll say this. Those people are NOT protected under our constitution and therefore have NO rights, other than human decency ones. "Giving life" and having children live in squalor is NEVER noble. See parts of Africa for more on that. Children deserve a chance in life and sadly some people are just too ignorant to know that they shouldn't be having kids. I do NOT remotely think you and/or your wife fall into this category. You guys seem like MORE than decent people. I just think your views on a few things are fucked. Nothing more than that.

[conversationpc]

Ultimately, it's a QUALITY that makes one a hero. It's not the uniform one wears or the position one holds.

All I have to say is "Duhhhhh!!!!". We're not as dumb here as you'd like to think. No one has said that ALL policemen are heroes or ALL firemen are heroes.

[Wheels Of Fyre]

Let me first start by saying that I was NOT grouping your wife in with illegal aliens. I see how you could have read it that way and I apologize that it was written poorly. As for the "illegal" raid or whatever it is that you're talking about, I'll say this. Those people are NOT protected under our constitution and therefore have NO rights, other than human decency ones. "Giving life" and having children live in squalor is NEVER noble. See parts of Africa for more on that. Children deserve a chance in life and sadly some people are just too ignorant to know that they shouldn't be having kids. I do NOT remotely think you and/or your wife fall into this category. You guys seem like MORE than decent people. I just think your views on a few things are fucked. Nothing more than that.

Thanks for the clarification. I was beginning to think bad things about you.

My wife is here legally because we did everything legally. I find it entirely frustrating that we’ve followed the letter of the law and have proven to be upstanding but can’t get her parents a visitor’s visa. Why not? Because they’re POOR and immigration refuses them based on the FEAR that they MIGHT decide to stay here and become a burden to society. Aren’t we as sponsors and law-abiding people to be trusted with their custody? And if not are we so hard to find should they violate their visa? Apparently not. Money talks. It’s amazing to me that an American can get a passport and visit nearly ANYWHERE in the world – regardless of financial status BUT that same courtesy is NOT extended by America to potential visitors.

Regarding protection. Protection really isn’t the issue. The issue is police using “illegal” means to entrap people. The police have NO RIGHT to enter a house and ask ANY questions UNLESS they have a WARRANT or if you’ve invited them in and willingly answer their questions (as was the case for my friends). Like I said, you can argue that they’re criminals and that it makes no difference how they’re caught. That’s fine. Personally, I’ve tried to help them. I’ve spoken with a lawyer on their behalf and have tried to persuade them to pursue legal residency but they’re paranoid. They believe that trying to become legal will result in them instantly being sent back. That’s definitely a real possibility. They’ve established a life here and I can understand not wanting to be uprooted and sent back. Anyway, for as much as people want to make this a simple black/white; right/wrong; up/down issue – it’s NOT.

Eugenics. Familiar with that term? It was explored here in America in the late 1800’s and early 1900’s. The Nazi’s saw what was going on and thought it was cool, too. When you say that certain people shouldn’t have kids then you’ve become a Nazi. Maybe “eugenicist” is perhaps “nicer”.
Perhaps the first modern Eugenicist in America was Alexander Bell. He investigated the deaf rate on Martha’s Vineyard and concluded that deafness was hereditary - and recommended a marriage prohibition against the deaf! See his "Memoir upon the formation of a deaf variety of the human Race"! Ironically, he was married to a deaf woman. Bell proposed controlling immigration for the purpose of eugenics and warned that boarding schools for the deaf could possibly be considered as breeding places of a deaf human race.
San Juan! I’m beginning to worry about you! This has opened a big can of worms.

[Saint John]

Let me first start by saying that I was NOT grouping your wife in with illegal aliens. I see how you could have read it that way and I apologize that it was written poorly. As for the "illegal" raid or whatever it is that you're talking about, I'll say this. Those people are NOT protected under our constitution and therefore have NO rights, other than human decency ones. "Giving life" and having children live in squalor is NEVER noble. See parts of Africa for more on that. Children deserve a chance in life and sadly some people are just too ignorant to know that they shouldn't be having kids. I do NOT remotely think you and/or your wife fall into this category. You guys seem like MORE than decent people. I just think your views on a few things are fucked. Nothing more than that.

Thanks for the clarification. I was beginning to think bad things about you.

My wife is here legally because we did everything legally. I find it entirely frustrating that we’ve followed the letter of the law and have proven to be upstanding but can’t get her parents a visitor’s visa. Why not? Because they’re POOR and immigration refuses them based on the FEAR that they MIGHT decide to stay here and become a burden to society. Aren’t we as sponsors and law-abiding people to be trusted with their custody? And if not are we so hard to find should they violate their visa? Apparently not. Money talks. It’s amazing to me that an American can get a passport and visit nearly ANYWHERE in the world – regardless of financial status BUT that same courtesy is NOT extended by America to potential visitors.

Regarding protection. Protection really isn’t the issue. The issue is police using “illegal” means to entrap people. The police have NO RIGHT to enter a house and ask ANY questions UNLESS they have a WARRANT or if you’ve invited them in and willingly answer their questions (as was the case for my friends). Like I said, you can argue that they’re criminals and that it makes no difference how they’re caught. That’s fine. Personally, I’ve tried to help them. I’ve spoken with a lawyer on their behalf and have tried to persuade them to pursue legal residency but they’re paranoid. They believe that trying to become legal will result in them instantly being sent back. That’s definitely a real possibility. They’ve established a life here and I can understand not wanting to be uprooted and sent back. Anyway, for as much as people want to make this a simple black/white; right/wrong; up/down issue – it’s NOT.

Eugenics. Familiar with that term? It was explored here in America in the late 1800’s and early 1900’s. The Nazi’s saw what was going on and thought it was cool, too. When you say that certain people shouldn’t have kids then you’ve become a Nazi. Maybe “eugenicist” is perhaps “nicer”.
Perhaps the first modern Eugenicist in America was Alexander Bell. He investigated the deaf rate on Martha’s Vineyard and concluded that deafness was hereditary - and recommended a marriage prohibition against the deaf! See his "Memoir upon the formation of a deaf variety of the human Race"! Ironically, he was married to a deaf woman. Bell proposed controlling immigration for the purpose of eugenics and warned that boarding schools for the deaf could possibly be considered as breeding places of a deaf human race.
San Juan! I’m beginning to worry about you! This has opened a big can of worms.

I resent being called/compared to, a Nazi. And are you saying it's ok for parents/tribes of people with AIDS to keep having children in Africa? Otherwise, you're a "eugenicist." Seems you've trapped yourself.

[conversationpc]

Eugenics. Familiar with that term? It was explored here in America in the late 1800’s and early 1900’s. The Nazi’s saw what was going on and thought it was cool, too. When you say that certain people shouldn’t have kids then you’ve become a Nazi. Maybe “eugenicist” is perhaps “nicer”.

You know, you complain about others categorizing you or lumping in with this and that and yet here is another example of you doing the same kind of thing. If you're going to complain about, you might want to abstain from it yourself. That's called "hypocrisy" in case you didn't know.

[StevePerryHair]

Let me first start by saying that I was NOT grouping your wife in with illegal aliens. I see how you could have read it that way and I apologize that it was written poorly. As for the "illegal" raid or whatever it is that you're talking about, I'll say this. Those people are NOT protected under our constitution and therefore have NO rights, other than human decency ones. "Giving life" and having children live in squalor is NEVER noble. See parts of Africa for more on that. Children deserve a chance in life and sadly some people are just too ignorant to know that they shouldn't be having kids. I do NOT remotely think you and/or your wife fall into this category. You guys seem like MORE than decent people. I just think your views on a few things are fucked. Nothing more than that.

Thanks for the clarification. I was beginning to think bad things about you.

My wife is here legally because we did everything legally. I find it entirely frustrating that we’ve followed the letter of the law and have proven to be upstanding but can’t get her parents a visitor’s visa. Why not? Because they’re POOR and immigration refuses them based on the FEAR that they MIGHT decide to stay here and become a burden to society. Aren’t we as sponsors and law-abiding people to be trusted with their custody? And if not are we so hard to find should they violate their visa? Apparently not. Money talks. It’s amazing to me that an American can get a passport and visit nearly ANYWHERE in the world – regardless of financial status BUT that same courtesy is NOT extended by America to potential visitors.

Regarding protection. Protection really isn’t the issue. The issue is police using “illegal” means to entrap people. The police have NO RIGHT to enter a house and ask ANY questions UNLESS they have a WARRANT or if you’ve invited them in and willingly answer their questions (as was the case for my friends). Like I said, you can argue that they’re criminals and that it makes no difference how they’re caught. That’s fine. Personally, I’ve tried to help them. I’ve spoken with a lawyer on their behalf and have tried to persuade them to pursue legal residency but they’re paranoid. They believe that trying to become legal will result in them instantly being sent back. That’s definitely a real possibility. They’ve established a life here and I can understand not wanting to be uprooted and sent back. Anyway, for as much as people want to make this a simple black/white; right/wrong; up/down issue – it’s NOT.

Eugenics. Familiar with that term? It was explored here in America in the late 1800’s and early 1900’s. The Nazi’s saw what was going on and thought it was cool, too. When you say that certain people shouldn’t have kids then you’ve become a Nazi. Maybe “eugenicist” is perhaps “nicer”.
Perhaps the first modern Eugenicist in America was Alexander Bell. He investigated the deaf rate on Martha’s Vineyard and concluded that deafness was hereditary - and recommended a marriage prohibition against the deaf! See his "Memoir upon the formation of a deaf variety of the human Race"! Ironically, he was married to a deaf woman. Bell proposed controlling immigration for the purpose of eugenics and warned that boarding schools for the deaf could possibly be considered as breeding places of a deaf human race.
San Juan! I’m beginning to worry about you! This has opened a big can of worms.

Police are like vampires, you never invite them in. When you do so, it is completely legal for them to be there. It is not an illegal tactic or they wouldn't be doing it.

[Wheels Of Fyre]

Let me first start by saying that I was NOT grouping your wife in with illegal aliens. I see how you could have read it that way and I apologize that it was written poorly. As for the "illegal" raid or whatever it is that you're talking about, I'll say this. Those people are NOT protected under our constitution and therefore have NO rights, other than human decency ones. "Giving life" and having children live in squalor is NEVER noble. See parts of Africa for more on that. Children deserve a chance in life and sadly some people are just too ignorant to know that they shouldn't be having kids. I do NOT remotely think you and/or your wife fall into this category. You guys seem like MORE than decent people. I just think your views on a few things are fucked. Nothing more than that.

Thanks for the clarification. I was beginning to think bad things about you.

My wife is here legally because we did everything legally. I find it entirely frustrating that we’ve followed the letter of the law and have proven to be upstanding but can’t get her parents a visitor’s visa. Why not? Because they’re POOR and immigration refuses them based on the FEAR that they MIGHT decide to stay here and become a burden to society. Aren’t we as sponsors and law-abiding people to be trusted with their custody? And if not are we so hard to find should they violate their visa? Apparently not. Money talks. It’s amazing to me that an American can get a passport and visit nearly ANYWHERE in the world – regardless of financial status BUT that same courtesy is NOT extended by America to potential visitors.

Regarding protection. Protection really isn’t the issue. The issue is police using “illegal” means to entrap people. The police have NO RIGHT to enter a house and ask ANY questions UNLESS they have a WARRANT or if you’ve invited them in and willingly answer their questions (as was the case for my friends). Like I said, you can argue that they’re criminals and that it makes no difference how they’re caught. That’s fine. Personally, I’ve tried to help them. I’ve spoken with a lawyer on their behalf and have tried to persuade them to pursue legal residency but they’re paranoid. They believe that trying to become legal will result in them instantly being sent back. That’s definitely a real possibility. They’ve established a life here and I can understand not wanting to be uprooted and sent back. Anyway, for as much as people want to make this a simple black/white; right/wrong; up/down issue – it’s NOT.

Eugenics. Familiar with that term? It was explored here in America in the late 1800’s and early 1900’s. The Nazi’s saw what was going on and thought it was cool, too. When you say that certain people shouldn’t have kids then you’ve become a Nazi. Maybe “eugenicist” is perhaps “nicer”.
Perhaps the first modern Eugenicist in America was Alexander Bell. He investigated the deaf rate on Martha’s Vineyard and concluded that deafness was hereditary - and recommended a marriage prohibition against the deaf! See his "Memoir upon the formation of a deaf variety of the human Race"! Ironically, he was married to a deaf woman. Bell proposed controlling immigration for the purpose of eugenics and warned that boarding schools for the deaf could possibly be considered as breeding places of a deaf human race.
San Juan! I’m beginning to worry about you! This has opened a big can of worms.

Police are like vampires, you never invite them in. When you do so, it is completely legal for them to be there. It is not an illegal tactic or they wouldn't be doing it.

That's why I said "illegal". It's not technically illegal however it is a form of entrapment. But as we've established illegals are criminals and have no rights so what does it matter? It's funny because a "John" can ask a prostitute if she's a cop and she MUST answer honestly otherwise it's entrapment. Entrapment for prostitution is a no-no but it's OK when you're wrangling up illegals. Funny how we quantify what's right and wrong.

[StevePerryHair]

That's why I said "illegal". It's not technically illegal however it is a form of entrapment. But as we've established illegals are criminals and have no rights so what does it matter? It's funny because a "John" can ask a prostitute if she's a cop and she MUST answer honestly otherwise it's entrapment. Entrapment for prostitution is a no-no but it's OK when you're wrangling up illegals. Funny how we quantify what's right and wrong.

You are mixing up your words here. On the one hand you say it's not illegal, yet you called the practice illegal. It is legal and it is not a true form of entrapment or they wouldn't do it. By the way, police use this tactic with legal citizens too. Sometimes they get in and they are happy and sometimes they have to go get the warrant. Police don't want charges to be dropped and if they were truly entrapping someone, the charges would be dropped. It is a loop hole in the law that they use to their advantage. You can say you think it's wrong if you want, but it is wrong to call it illegal or entrapment.

I'm surprised that local police in Ohio take the time to go door to door hunting down illegal immigrants. I live in a city where I would guess has many more illegal mexicans than a city in Ohio would. My husband is a local cop here and in Florida (a state with many illegal immigrants) the police do not take the time to hunt them down. If he happens to arrest someone who is breaking the law, and they happen to get arrested, then the jail may contact INS. Are you sure it's not INS who is involved in your friends raid? Or did these people break the law in some other way that you are negelecting to mention?

BY THE WAY the prostitute example you have stated is a TV myth!!!! The police do not have to be honest. If they had to tell the truth, they could never do undercover. Police can use decpeption as a means and it is completely within the law to do so.

[Wheels Of Fyre]

Eugenics. Familiar with that term? It was explored here in America in the late 1800’s and early 1900’s. The Nazi’s saw what was going on and thought it was cool, too. When you say that certain people shouldn’t have kids then you’ve become a Nazi. Maybe “eugenicist” is perhaps “nicer”.

You know, you complain about others categorizing you or lumping in with this and that and yet here is another example of you doing the same kind of thing. If you're going to complain about, you might want to abstain from it yourself. That's called "hypocrisy" in case you didn't know.

I haven't defined anyone. I've noted that when you say something like that then you've become a Nazi.

I believe that we are what we say. Our words define us. I haven't defined anyone. His words defined him just as the Nazis were defined by theirs. If you're going to quack then you must be a duck...whoops...wait. That seems to contradict my philosophy...I may have some thinking to do...

[Saint John]

Eugenics. Familiar with that term? It was explored here in America in the late 1800’s and early 1900’s. The Nazi’s saw what was going on and thought it was cool, too. When you say that certain people shouldn’t have kids then you’ve become a Nazi. Maybe “eugenicist” is perhaps “nicer”.

You know, you complain about others categorizing you or lumping in with this and that and yet here is another example of you doing the same kind of thing. If you're going to complain about, you might want to abstain from it yourself. That's called "hypocrisy" in case you didn't know.

I haven't defined anyone. I've noted that when you say something like that then you've become a Nazi.

I believe that we are what we say. Our words define us. I haven't defined anyone. His words defined him just as the Nazis were defined by theirs. If you're going to quack then you must be a duck...whoops...wait. That seems to contradict my philosophy...I may have some thinking to do...

We're defined by our actions moreso than our words. If you believe otherwise then priests who preach one thing during the day, only to butt fuck little boys in the evening, are "noble" by your standard.

[Soto All The Way]

Eugenics. Familiar with that term? It was explored here in America in the late 1800’s and early 1900’s. The Nazi’s saw what was going on and thought it was cool, too. When you say that certain people shouldn’t have kids then you’ve become a Nazi. Maybe “eugenicist” is perhaps “nicer”.

You know, you complain about others categorizing you or lumping in with this and that and yet here is another example of you doing the same kind of thing. If you're going to complain about, you might want to abstain from it yourself. That's called "hypocrisy" in case you didn't know.

I haven't defined anyone. I've noted that when you say something like that then you've become a Nazi.

I believe that we are what we say. Our words define us. I haven't defined anyone. His words defined him just as the Nazis were defined by theirs. If you're going to quack then you must be a duck...whoops...wait. That seems to contradict my philosophy...I may have some thinking to do...

We're defined by our actions moreso than our words. If you believe otherwise then priests who preach one thing during the day, only to butt fuck little boys in the evening, are "noble" by your standard.

Wow, so how 'bout JSS getting fucked by frick and frack!!!!

e-

[Wheels Of Fyre]

That's why I said "illegal". It's not technically illegal however it is a form of entrapment. But as we've established illegals are criminals and have no rights so what does it matter? It's funny because a "John" can ask a prostitute if she's a cop and she MUST answer honestly otherwise it's entrapment. Entrapment for prostitution is a no-no but it's OK when you're wrangling up illegals. Funny how we quantify what's right and wrong.

You are mixing up your words here. On the one hand you say it's not illegal, yet you called the practice illegal. It is legal and it is not a true form of entrapment or they wouldn't do it. By the way, police use this tactic with legal citizens too. Sometimes they get in and they are happy and sometimes they have to go get the warrant. Police don't want charges to be dropped and if they were truly entrapping someone, the charges would be dropped. It is a loop hole in the law that they use to their advantage. You can say you think it's wrong if you want, but it is wrong to call it illegal or entrapment.

I'm surprised that local police in Ohio take the time to go door to door hunting down illegal immigrants. I live in a city where I would guess has many more illegal mexicans than a city in Ohio would. My husband is a local cop here and in Florida (a state with many illegal immigrants) the police do not take the time to hunt them down. If he happens to arrest someone who is breaking the law, and they happen to get arrested, then the jail may contact INS. Are you sure it's not INS who is involved in your friends raid? Or did these people break the law in some other way that you are negelecting to mention?

BY THE WAY the prostitute example you have stated is a TV myth!!!! The police do not have to be honest. If they had to tell the truth, they could never do undercover. Police can use decpeption as a means and it is completely within the law to do so.

I stand corrected! I love not knowing as much as I think I do!

I was compelled to look up the legal definition of entrapment:
ENTRAPMENT - A person is 'entrapped' when he is induced or persuaded by law enforcement officers or their agents to commit a crime that he had no previous intent to commit; and the law as a matter of policy forbids conviction in such a case.

In my friend's case there was no entrapment. I was thinking that they were duped and therefore tricked/entrapped. Clearly, this doesn't jive with the legal definition.

Let's call the "tactic" what it is then: fear.
A lawyer told me that these raids are a very common practice in Ohio and that the police are very skilled when it comes to striking fear. In the case with my friends INS was with the police. None of my friends are connected to any illegal activity. They simply answered a question honestly regarding their documents.

Thanks for the info. I'm still not sure how I feel about police using fear. I suppose it's necessary.

About the prostitute example - obviously I watch too much TV!

[Wheels Of Fyre]

Eugenics. Familiar with that term? It was explored here in America in the late 1800’s and early 1900’s. The Nazi’s saw what was going on and thought it was cool, too. When you say that certain people shouldn’t have kids then you’ve become a Nazi. Maybe “eugenicist” is perhaps “nicer”.

You know, you complain about others categorizing you or lumping in with this and that and yet here is another example of you doing the same kind of thing. If you're going to complain about, you might want to abstain from it yourself. That's called "hypocrisy" in case you didn't know.

I haven't defined anyone. I've noted that when you say something like that then you've become a Nazi.

I believe that we are what we say. Our words define us. I haven't defined anyone. His words defined him just as the Nazis were defined by theirs. If you're going to quack then you must be a duck...whoops...wait. That seems to contradict my philosophy...I may have some thinking to do...

We're defined by our actions moreso than our words. If you believe otherwise then priests who preach one thing during the day, only to butt fuck little boys in the evening, are "noble" by your standard.

What if they do it during the day?

I think you're right. Had the Nazis only SAID that they represented the "Master Race" and that all others should be exterminated instead of actually DOING the extermination then Hitler might've been a strong third party candidate.

[ArnelRox]

The issue is police using “illegal” means to entrap people. The police have NO RIGHT to enter a house and ask ANY questions UNLESS they have a WARRANT or if you’ve invited them in and willingly answer their questions (as was the case for my friends).

I have to question this story about ur friends & suggest there is a LOT more to it. The police & immigration (whatever the "official" name is now) have nothing to do w/one another UNLESS the person is a SUSPECT & usually of some pretty important crime. Having been in the restaurant biz for a long time, I've known several illegals who were arrested for being drunk & disorderly, drunk driving, etc. None of them were sent to an immigration detention center. The police could care less. They dont even want to get mixed up in that as it results in waaaay too much paperwork. I know MANY cops who would attest to this. They only contact immigration if it's drugs, terrorist, or something else pretty huge. So I'm really sorry about ur friends, but trust me, there is MORE to this story than u know.

[Liquid_Drummer]

What the fuck happened to this thread !!! Police, Warrants and bickering.... Wow I am not even going to go back and read how a topic about Jeremy's audition turned in to this shit !

[ArnelRox]

What the fuck happened to this thread !!!

FyreWyngs happened (or whatever his new name is). Does that explain it?

[Wheels Of Fyre]

The issue is police using “illegal” means to entrap people. The police have NO RIGHT to enter a house and ask ANY questions UNLESS they have a WARRANT or if you’ve invited them in and willingly answer their questions (as was the case for my friends).

I have to question this story about ur friends & suggest there is a LOT more to it. The police & immigration (whatever the "official" name is now) have nothing to do w/one another UNLESS the person is a SUSPECT & usually of some pretty important crime. Having been in the restaurant biz for a long time, I've known several illegals who were arrested for being drunk & disorderly, drunk driving, etc. None of them were sent to an immigration detention center. The police could care less. They dont even want to get mixed up in that as it results in waaaay too much paperwork. I know MANY cops who would attest to this. They only contact immigration if it's drugs, terrorist, or something else pretty huge. So I'm really sorry about ur friends, but trust me, there is MORE to this story than u know.

I was VERY suspicious at first, too however the FACTS are that the police along with INS simply knocked on their door and explained that they were looking for a "bad" guy by the name of Gregory. They proceeded to ask if they could enter which was granted. The questions quickly shifted from Gregory to them. They were asked if their documents were false and they honestly answered. That's when they were hauled off. I suppose it's possible that IF this Gregory exists that they were involved with him but I don't find it at all probable. I spoke with a lawyer shortly after this "raid" and she informed me that a few of her clients had called her during the same timeframe with a complaint that the police and INS had attempted to enter their homes. I suspect that someone reported my friends to the authorities and rather than doing all of the legwork involved to get warrants they used the more easy and direct tactic.

[Wheels Of Fyre]

What the fuck happened to this thread !!!

FyreWyngs happened (or whatever his new name is). Does that explain it?

I'm good at what I do.

Hey - I tried to get it back on track. It was SJ with his hate speech that got everything all stirred up!Prior to that it was some others getting all hysterical over who/what a hero is.

Don't give me ALL of the credit!

[ArnelRox]

But for the police AND INS (or whatever they call themselves these days) to arrive at someone's door, this Gregory guy must be a really really really bad guy suspected of something really awful. INS have their own officers. The fact that they called the local police for an assist speaks volumes of the threat they felt. They also must have had some pretty convincing evidence that ur friends were involved w/this Gregory guy.

As for someone reporting ur friends, if that's the case, it was reported & somewhat substantiated that they had an affiliation w/Gregory. Trust me on this. I know people who have called INS just to report illegals & INS have done absolutely nothing. The only time they pay attention to these kinds of calls is if they can go in & bust an entire factory & make a big news case of it. They are so totally backlogged they dont have time to follow up on a few illegals living somewhere. The only other time they pay attention is if it's connected to an important case. Otherwise, it goes into some file & rots.

As for the police trying to enter w/out a warrant, that's done every day of the week in investigations. It's a shame ur friends werent savvy enough to say no. Most illegals know this much as they are told by other illegals who have been here for a while.

Dont trust a lawyer who thinks she might get hired to represent ur friends. A lawyer in that position would tell u JUST about anything they thought u wanted to hear.

I was VERY suspicious at first, too however the FACTS are that the police along with INS simply knocked on their door and explained that they were looking for a "bad" guy by the name of Gregory. They proceeded to ask if they could enter which was granted. The questions quickly shifted from Gregory to them. They were asked if their documents were false and they honestly answered. That's when they were hauled off. I suppose it's possible that IF this Gregory exists that they were involved with him but I don't find it at all probable. I spoke with a lawyer shortly after this "raid" and she informed me that a few of her clients had called her during the same timeframe with a complaint that the police and INS had attempted to enter their homes. I suspect that someone reported my friends to the authorities and rather than doing all of the legwork involved to get warrants they used the more easy and direct tactic.

[RunningAlone Pgh]

.....Regarding protection. Protection really isn’t the issue. The issue is police using “illegal” means to entrap people. The police have NO RIGHT to enter a house and ask ANY questions UNLESS they have a WARRANT or if you’ve invited them in and willingly answer their questions (as was the case for my friends). Like I said, you can argue that they’re criminals and that it makes no difference how they’re caught. That’s fine. Personally, I’ve tried to help them. I’ve spoken with a lawyer on their behalf and have tried to persuade them to pursue legal residency but they’re paranoid. They believe that trying to become legal will result in them instantly being sent back. That’s definitely a real possibility. They’ve established a life here and I can understand not wanting to be uprooted and sent back. Anyway, for as much as people want to make this a simple black/white; right/wrong; up/down issue – it’s NOT.

Fyre, why should these people - who are in this country illegally, and technically criminals - have any rights? IMO, they shouldn't have any rights at all because they don't belong here. I don't care if they're Mexicans, Canadians, Monegasques, Afrikaaners, whatever. If they want to enjoy the RIGHTS and privileges of the United States then enter it the legal way. If they don't they should be deported. IMMEDIATELY. Again, JMO.

[conversationpc]

It was SJ with his hate speech that got everything all stirred up!

[ArnelRox]

Fyre, why should these people - who are in this country illegally, and technically criminals - have any rights? IMO, they shouldn't have any rights at all because they don't belong here. I don't care if they're Mexicans, Canadians, Monegasques, Afrikaaners, whatever. If they want to enjoy the RIGHTS and privileges of the United States then enter it the legal way. If they don't they should be deported. IMMEDIATELY. Again, JMO.

Good point. Some of them cant get in the legal way tho. It's just not easy & they desperately want to come here for the opportunities. Many of them work 3 jobs that Americans wont do. Ask anyone who ever worked in a restaurant!

However they do actually have rights, believe it or not. Even the INS has a process & there are defenses illegal immigrants can use to change their status. The USA is really pretty fair w/illegals. Maybe too fair?

[conversationpc]

Many of them work 3 jobs that Americans wont do.

I don't buy that argument at all. The reason they won't do it is because the companies know they can pay substandard wages to illegal aliens to do the job and get away with it on the cheap.

[Wally_Hatchet]

It's funny because a "John" can ask a prostitute if she's a cop and she MUST answer honestly otherwise it's entrapment.

^ That statement is not true - a total myth. It is perfectly legal for an undercover cop to deny they are indeed a cop in that situation.

[ArnelRox]

Many of them work 3 jobs that Americans wont do.

I don't buy that argument at all. The reason they won't do it is because the companies know they can pay substandard wages to illegal aliens to do the job and get away with it on the cheap.

Not quite. Let's use a restaurant for example. Dishwashing is a shitty lousy job. As a manager I've had to do it when a dishwasher didnt show up to work. Its a job I wouldnt wish on my worst enemy. But it's a necessary part of a restaurant. The dishes have to be washed!

It pays minimum wage or maybe $6/hour for a guy who has worked there for a while. Those are the going rates for anyone doing the job in any restaurant I've ever worked in. They're not considered substandard wages.

I've had American citizens come in & beg for a job. I say ok here's the starting job in the kitchen. Not one of them has ever lasted more than a week. In Chicago, I had Mexicans come in asking for a job, put them back there, they excelled (w/the exception of maybe 1 in my career). (They've all produced residency papers & SS cards, whether they were forged or not is impossible to tell.) Many of these Mexicans went from my job to a 2nd job, sometimes a 3rd. Yet, they never wore out, came in late, or complained. Eventually, I promoted them. Some became busboys, some line cooks, & one who took ESL lessons, became a server. In FL, we have a lot of Haitians doing this kind of work. Same story, different nationality.

[RunningAlone Pgh]

I don't buy that argument at all. The reason they won't do it is because the companies know they can pay substandard wages to illegal aliens to do the job and get away with it on the cheap.

Nope, not buying that one either, Dave. If there weren't aliens to do jobs "on the cheap" employers would have to pay decent wages. Imagine that!

A good friend of mine is the Officer in Charge of the INS in Pittsburgh, was formerly a border guard in El Paso and helped with the processing of refugees into Miami several years ago. I might have held some idealism at one time about the wannabe immigrants, but after hearing her experiences with people trying to get into the country my idealism flew right out the window.

[Wheels Of Fyre]

But for the police AND INS (or whatever they call themselves these days) to arrive at someone's door, this Gregory guy must be a really really really bad guy suspected of something really awful. INS have their own officers. The fact that they called the local police for an assist speaks volumes of the threat they felt. They also must have had some pretty convincing evidence that ur friends were involved w/this Gregory guy.

As for someone reporting ur friends, if that's the case, it was reported & somewhat substantiated that they had an affiliation w/Gregory. Trust me on this. I know people who have called INS just to report illegals & INS have done absolutely nothing. The only time they pay attention to these kinds of calls is if they can go in & bust an entire factory & make a big news case of it. They are so totally backlogged they dont have time to follow up on a few illegals living somewhere. The only other time they pay attention is if it's connected to an important case. Otherwise, it goes into some file & rots.

As for the police trying to enter w/out a warrant, that's done every day of the week in investigations. It's a shame ur friends werent savvy enough to say no. Most illegals know this much as they are told by other illegals who have been here for a while.

Dont trust a lawyer who thinks she might get hired to represent ur friends. A lawyer in that position would tell u JUST about anything they thought u wanted to hear.

The casual posture of the police simply walking up to the door with no apparent tactical maneuvers such as back-up - I mean there was nobody covering their back door nor their front - leads me to suspect that there is no such person as Gregory. If he was real and posed a real threat I doubt very much that they'd approach the dwelling in such a casual manner. It seems to me that "Gregory" was used a means to gain confidence and entry.

My one friend actually was savvy enough to lie when asked about her documents. They didn't at all push her. It seems to me that if Gregory was such a bad guy and if her brothers (who were living with her) were involved with him that the police would connect the dots to her, too.

[ArnelRox]

A good friend of mine is the Officer in Charge of the INS in Pittsburgh, was formerly a border guard in El Paso and helped with the processing of refugees into Miami several years ago. I might have held some idealism at one time about the wannabe immigrants, but after hearing her experiences with people trying to get into the country my idealism flew right out the window.

Would u mind elaborating (if ur allowed to do so) please? I've met lots of really wonderful wannabe immigrants in restaurants I've worked at. Sure, I've met a couple of losers too. But most were really great hardworking folks who just wanted to live here, but couldnt find a legal way in. I dont doubt there are different stories. I would like to hear them, if u can.

[conversationpc]

But most were really great hardworking folks who just wanted to live here, but couldnt find a legal way in.

I don't buy that one, either. I'm sure the process to immigrate legally to the U.S. is long and difficult but that's the way it's intended to be.

[ArnelRox]

The casual posture of the police simply walking up to the door with no apparent tactical maneuvers such as back-up - I mean there was nobody covering their back door nor their front - leads me to suspect that there is no such person as Gregory. If he was real and posed a real threat I doubt very much that they'd approach the dwelling in such a casual manner.

Do u know any cops Fyre? If not, maybe someone here is one & can help u understand this. This is the way they ALWAYS appear: casual. Have u ever watched "The Shield"? A lot of my cop friends say that's pretty close to reality. Ever seen Vic & his strike team approach a dangerous situation? Totally casual. But they have back up folks in the front & back. The people in the house just dont see them unless there's trouble.

It seems to me that "Gregory" was used a means to gain confidence and entry.

For what purpose? They dont do that shit just to bust a couple of illegals for the sole reason of deporting illegals. OBVIOUSLY they had some serious substantiated suspicions about these people.

My one friend actually was savvy enough to lie when asked about her documents. They didn't at all push her.

Why would they? They wanted info about something else. They used the whole INS thing to intimidate. Again, typical cop tactics.