Time to move on ?

[NealIsGod]

I guess my point (& why I'm angry) is that whether they had good reason or not, they should have told Jeff what their reasons were. I believe Marcel & others who say that Jeff would have made this easier for them smoothing over the fans if he was treated fairly. Even if their reason was simply, we want someone who is more-Perry-soundalike-ish (as Friga eluded to in 1 interview). Anything. Not being given a reason is just wrong IMHO. The way they erased him gradually from their site made me sick.

How bout now?

[(Crazy)Dulce Lady]

But JSS is not the only one .........hurt,................................. Sorry. I guess I just need a few days more.

yup. I still have tears as of a few minutes ago.

DO NOT listen to SEND HER MY LOVE from JSS' 'Essential Ballads' and 'Holding On' cds. (please get a tissue-don't use your sleeve)

we send U our love, brothah.

(I'm trying, Marty. thanks for the thoughts)

[ArnelRox]

How bout now?

(No, sorry, not yet)

[jrnysc]

As for someone else posting for them, there were a couple of very strange posts on the blog a few days ago, that disappeared before I could get back and read them again. They were to the point, matter of fact, and pointed several fingers. Could it have been someone from BT? Sure. Was it? People can claim what they will, I still have no idea who they were. All I can tell you is someone didn't want anyone to see them.

Point taken. I was talking about a credible source tho, like Brian May or Marcel. From what I understand those were anonymous posts on the blog.

Someone also posted some crap here about drugs & someone on TJF posted some shit about singing to tape. Poor Jeff himself had to come out & refute those. See what I mean?

Yep. I remember that. These were not that blatant, nor did they imply anything like that. They were directed at Dean, and said something along the lines of if you people truly believe Jeff doesn't know why he was fired, I have some swampland in Florida to sell you. It gave you the sense it was someone from the band or management posting. One I remember was under the name Yippers.

[jrnysc]

I would. Absolutely there would be no misunderstanding there. That is why I have said a million times I do not, nor will I condone the way they did what they did. Did they have good reason? I have no idea, but it may be the craziest decision in rock history if they did not.

I guess my point (& why I'm angry) is that whether they had good reason or not, they should have told Jeff what their reasons were. I believe Marcel & others who say that Jeff would have made this easier for them smoothing over the fans if he was treated fairly. Even if their reason was simply, we want someone who is more-Perry-soundalike-ish (as Friga eluded to in 1 interview). Anything. Not being given a reason is just wrong IMHO. The way they erased him gradually from their site made me sick.

I say again. I cannot agree with you more there. Not telling him is not professional, fair, or anything else.

[ArnelRox]

Yep. I remember that. These were not that blatant, nor did they imply anything like that. They were directed at Dean, and said something along the lines of if you people truly believe Jeff doesn't know why he was fired, I have some swampland in Florida to sell you. It gave you the sense it was someone from the band or management posting. One I remember was under the name Yippers.

Sounds like a disgruntled Neal fan to me trying to sound "important". The one on TJF who talked about him singing to tape was being called Karla by the other posters & I think someone said she runs a Neal fansite. Not exactly a credible source now is it?

[SusieP]

I've moved on.
And I still play my Journey CD's.
Only difference now is, that when a song starts, and I hear Neal and/or Jonathan, a little voice in my head says, "BASTARDS!"

Then I think, well, it's human nature to shy away from confrontation. How many times have you been dating someone, told them they were the one for you and then changed your mind?
Changed your mind but not told them.....just not called them again......and avoided their calls until after a while they got the message?
I think a lot of people have done that. Or had it done to them.
It stinks when you are the one who was dumped, but, you deal with it and move on.
So I've dealt with it and moved on.
Just thought I'd tell you all that.

[jrnysc]

Yep. I remember that. These were not that blatant, nor did they imply anything like that. They were directed at Dean, and said something along the lines of if you people truly believe Jeff doesn't know why he was fired, I have some swampland in Florida to sell you. It gave you the sense it was someone from the band or management posting. One I remember was under the name Yippers.

Sounds like a disgruntled Neal fan to me trying to sound "important". The one on TJF who talked about him singing to tape was being called Karla by the other posters & I think someone said she runs a Neal fansite. Not exactly a credible source now is it?

No that is not. I had asked on here that day if anyone knew who that may be, or could they get the IP address. No one ever responded that I saw. There again, I believe in truth and fairness. I have no idea if it was legit or not. I can only say it gave you the sense it was someone close to the situation, responding to Dean's accusations, and it did not stay but a few minutes, and it disappeared. I tried to get some others to read it and see what they thought, and it was gone that quick before we could even get back there to read it.

[jrnysc]

I've moved on.
And I still play my Journey CD's.
Only difference now is, that when a song starts, and I hear Neal and/or Jonathan, a little voice in my head says, "BASTARDS!"

Then I think, well, it's human nature to shy away from confrontation. How many times have you been dating someone, told them they were the one for you and then changed your mind?
Changed your mind but not told them.....just not called them again......and avoided their calls until after a while they got the message?
I think a lot of people have done that. Or had it done to them.
It stinks when you are the one who was dumped, but, you deal with it and move on.
So I've dealt with it and moved on.
Just thought I'd tell you all that.

Susie. Always the voice of reason!!

[ArnelRox]

Then I think, well, it's human nature to shy away from confrontation. How many times have you been dating someone, told them they were the one for you and then changed your mind?
Changed your mind but not told them.....just not called them again......and avoided their calls until after a while they got the message?

Me? Never.

I've also never fired anyone w/out telling them why I was firing them.

[SusieP]

Then I think, well, it's human nature to shy away from confrontation. How many times have you been dating someone, told them they were the one for you and then changed your mind?
Changed your mind but not told them.....just not called them again......and avoided their calls until after a while they got the message?

Me? Never.

I've also never fired anyone w/out telling them why I was firing them.

That makes you a better person than those who haven't told or given a reason.

I've been dumped that way.
It was crap, and hurtful but I moved on.

And you know what - both times it happened, the guys came to me months/years later and wanted me back.
And because I had moved on, I was able to tell 'em to shove it.

When the boot was on the other foot, and I didn't feel a guy was right, I took a deep breath and told them straight.
It wasn't easy but I did it. I thought how I would feel if I were them, and I 'did unto others as I would have them do to me.'

I guess that makes me a better person, too.


[maybe one day Jeff will be approached again by them?]

[*Laura]

I've moved on.
And I still play my Journey CD's.
Only difference now is, that when a song starts, and I hear Neal and/or Jonathan, a little voice in my head says, "BASTARDS!"

Oh,Susie...You're hearing little voices too?

Kidding aside,I'm with you on what you just said.I cannot give up the Classic Journey,never will.
But the bad taste of what this great name had been associated with lately will linger for a long time.
Personally,I don't lose any sleep over the recent events,but I am VERY disgusted because of how this band handled JSS.They should have been much more smarter than that,and if they didn't really wanned to keep him (which was a big mistake,IMHO),at least have some friggin' dignity and treat your bandmate with RESPECT.
By not doing that,they have certainly lost MY respect.

Moving on?Sure!I bet next year by this time,the whole episode will be a distant memory and I'll be happy playing a new JSS album.
Maybe even a new Steve Perry album!
Ok,and Augeri will get in my CD player too!

Also,there is so much great music out there ...An entire list of bands and artists worth listening to,worth spending money on.
Besides,I'll always have my old Journey collection which I will enjoy all my life.


Marty,Susie and SusieP -- great posts from all of you.A pleasure to see some well thought out opinions.

[Eric]

I disagree with you somewhat on a few things Strangegrey......

I don't think its been a downward spiral since Arrival. They did play shitholes in 2002, and did play the same setlist night after night..BUT...they had an EP out that they played 2 songs from at least. 2003 Main Event tour can't argue with you about and 2004's Detour tour was aimless, but they did start pulling more classics out and they did play better venues at least some of the time. In 2005 they released Generations AND played 8 tunes off of it. They played top notch amphitheatres by themselves and sold very well (14,000 alone at SPAC). 2006 - I can't argue with you about......and I don't know what to say about 2007.

[SusieP]

I've moved on.
And I still play my Journey CD's.
Only difference now is, that when a song starts, and I hear Neal and/or Jonathan, a little voice in my head says, "BASTARDS!"

Oh,Susie...You're hearing little voices too?

Kidding aside,I'm with you on what you just said.I cannot give up the Classic Journey,never will.
But the bad taste of what this great name had been associated with lately will linger for a long time.
Personally,I don't lose any sleep over the recent events,but I am VERY disgusted because of how this band handled JSS.They should have been much more smarter than that,and if they didn't really wanned to keep him (which was a big mistake,IMHO),at least have some friggin' dignity and treat your bandmate with RESPECT.
By not doing that,they have certainly lost MY respect.

Moving on?Sure!I bet next year by this time,the whole episode will be a distant memory and I'll be happy playing a new JSS album.
Maybe even a new Steve Perry album!
Ok,and Augeri will get in my CD player too!

Also,there is so much great music out there ...An entire list of bands and artists worth listening to,worth spending money on.
Besides,I'll always have my old Journey collection which I will enjoy all my life.


Marty,Susie and SusieP -- great posts from all of you.A pleasure to see some well thought out opinions.

I was as furious and outraged as the next person when I knew Jeff hadn't been told WHY.
I fumed for ages, but then, when I looked past my anger, I realised that he is better off OUT of Journey.
So the firing is actually a good career move for him.
Yes, they still behaved like GITS towards him - BUT - what appeared, at first to be the end of his world, will actually turn out to be the start of better things.
I truly believe that, and this is why I have moved on.

I am still left wondering about some things, though, i.e.,
1) how can another human being treat a friend like that? and,
2) do bad people ever get their Karma? It seems to me like they don't.

[ArnelRox]

When the boot was on the other foot, and I didn't feel a guy was right, I took a deep breath and told them straight.
It wasn't easy but I did it. I thought how I would feel if I were them, and I 'did unto others as I would have them do to me.'

I told one guy honestly why I was breaking up w/him (he was just waaaay too serious sending daily flowers & shit & I just wasnt). He got really upset & never spoke to me again. B/c he managed an after hours joint we often drank at, I ran into him quite a bit. He was angry w/me FOREVER! One nite we were all going to some super-late-nite joint (a place cops drank at open till 6 am) & he accidentally got into the same cab as me. He didnt realize I was going & made the cab driver stop in the middle of nowhere so he could get out & walk home. Damn. I must be a bitch!

[SusieP]

When the boot was on the other foot, and I didn't feel a guy was right, I took a deep breath and told them straight.
It wasn't easy but I did it. I thought how I would feel if I were them, and I 'did unto others as I would have them do to me.'

I told one guy honestly why I was breaking up w/him (he was just waaaay too serious sending daily flowers & shit & I just wasnt). He got really upset & never spoke to me again. B/c he managed an after hours joint we often drank at, I ran into him quite a bit. He was angry w/me FOREVER! One nite we were all going to some super-late-nite joint (a place cops drank at open till 6 am) & he accidentally got into the same cab as me. He didnt realize I was going & made the cab driver stop in the middle of nowhere so he could get out & walk home. Damn. I must be a bitch!

No.
He just hasn't moved on. If you told him to his face that you were 'firing' him and told him why, then, no way is that the action of a bitch. The bitchy thing to do would be to just not call him, or see him or ever return his calls until he went away. [Remind you of anything???? ]

[ArnelRox]

No that is not. I had asked on here that day if anyone knew who that may be, or could they get the IP address. No one ever responded that I saw. There again, I believe in truth and fairness. I have no idea if it was legit or not. I can only say it gave you the sense it was someone close to the situation, responding to Dean's accusations, and it did not stay but a few minutes, and it disappeared. I tried to get some others to read it and see what they thought, and it was gone that quick before we could even get back there to read it.

I cant remember which thread it was in but Andrew responded about this situation. Apparently the poster on the blog also signed up here & he was able to look up the IP address & check it w/the blog poster (I assume thru Deano). He connected it (somehow) w/a long time BT poster. He knew it was a fake post on the blog, someone looking to stir up trouble. I dont blame Deano for erasing it after he found this out.

Does that help ease ur doubts about this situation any?

[*Laura]

...when I looked past my anger, I realised that he is better off OUT of Journey.
So the firing is actually a good career move for him.
Yes, they still behaved like GITS towards him - BUT - what appeared, at first to be the end of his world, will actually turn out to be the start of better things.
I truly believe that, and this is why I have moved on.

Exactly! I saw the gold ring among all the garbage.

I hope Jeff will feel this way too after this black cloud passes.He has everything it takes to turn this into a new beginning for him.
Journey simply cannot say that about their future.At least from the fanbase's perspective.

[SusieP]

Exactly! I saw the gold ring among all the garbage.

Gollum, is that you?????

My preciousssssss.

[*Laura]

Exactly! I saw the gold ring among all the garbage.

Gollum, is that you?????

My preciousssssss.

Actually,I think Gollum is Jeff.Right now he has the Ring.

[tammy]

I think a lot of people have "moved on"...seems like the anger has been replaced with apathy towards the band. What's worse, the anger or the apathy?

[SusieP]

I think a lot of people have "moved on"...seems like the anger has been replaced with apathy towards the band. What's worse, the anger or the apathy?

Let's see how concert ticket sales are affected then we'll find out.
Probably both as bad as the other.
Apathetic towards band = won't buy tickets.
Angry with band = won't buy tickets.

I dunno, by the time they gig again maybe many people will have moved on and even forgotten?
I dunno.

[*Laura]

I dunno, by the time they gig again maybe many people will have moved on and even forgotten?
I dunno.

What I think is going to happen is people will go to the concerts because they will have NO idea what happened.
Just think about it:if you would have not been on this message board and not have found out about all the shitty details,would you have any problem going to the next Journey concert?I guess not.

That's what the casual fans are for and my take is that the band is now relying on them.
The diehard,informed fans are just a few,the casual concert goers who have a few beers and sing along are the majority.

[SusieP]

I dunno, by the time they gig again maybe many people will have moved on and even forgotten?
I dunno.

What I think is going to happen is people will go to the concerts because they will have NO idea what happened.
Just think about it:if you would have not been on this message board and not have found out about all the shitty details,would you have any problem going to the next Journey concert?I guess not.

That's what the casual fans are for and my take is that the band is now relying on them.
The diehard,informed fans are just a few,the casual concert goers who have a few beers and sing along are the majority.

If I didnt come on here, no I'd have no idea. The UK Classic Rock was out this week and it just printed the Press release from Journey. So I would only have that to go on.

And Journey know that, so they know they will get away with their actions.
Which brings me back to my question......do people who behave badly EVER get their Karma? I'm beginning to think not.

[tammy]

I don't believe in karma. Shitty things happen to good people for no reason & great things happen to shitty people who don't deserve it. The whole damn universe is one big question mark and exclamation mark! I'm not equating this JRNY stuff with it - it is just how I see things. There will still be concerts & tons of people going so nothing will change. But, knowing what went down might make a difference in us...for me, I don't have the enthusiasm I once had, nor the desire to give them ANOTHER try.

[separate_wayz]

Exactly! I saw the gold ring among all the garbage.

Gollum, is that you?????

My preciousssssss.

Actually,I think Gollum is Jeff.Right now he has the Ring.

I think Neal is Gollum .... or maybe a hobbit.

I say that humorously, but in all seriousness, we might look back at some of these business decisions some years from now and realize just how much goodwill toward Journey was squandered for short-term gains.

[styxman]

I behave badly most Friday's and Saturday's..still waiting for my Karma...that's that Budism crap ain't it If your not a budhist you don't get Karma so what the fuck Can't wait for Friday again

[SusieP]

I behave badly most Friday's and Saturday's..still waiting for my Karma...that's that Budism crap ain't it If your not a budhist you don't get Karma so what the fuck Can't wait for Friday again

Oh so THAT's it! No Buddhism = no Karma.
That explains it, Thanks a lot, styxie.

I was looking online for some new wellies yesterday and I saw some rubber ducks for sale. I thought of you.

http://www.totally-funky.co.uk/gifts/ba ... lAodRQvD8w


How many in your collection now?

[*Laura]

I behave badly most Friday's and Saturday's..still waiting for my Karma...that's that Budism crap ain't it If your not a budhist you don't get Karma so what the fuck Can't wait for Friday again

Oh so THAT's it! No Buddhism = no Karma.
That explains it, Thanks a lot, styxie.

I was looking online for some new wellies yesterday and I saw some rubber ducks for sale. I thought of you.

http://www.totally-funky.co.uk/gifts/ba ... RQvD8w:lol:

How many in your collection now?

Didn't he tell you,Susie?No more rubber toys.He has a new secretary now,she walks like a duck! *ducking*

[SusieP]

I behave badly most Friday's and Saturday's..still waiting for my Karma...that's that Budism crap ain't it If your not a budhist you don't get Karma so what the fuck Can't wait for Friday again

Oh so THAT's it! No Buddhism = no Karma.
That explains it, Thanks a lot, styxie.

I was looking online for some new wellies yesterday and I saw some rubber ducks for sale. I thought of you.

http://www.totally-funky.co.uk/gifts/ba ... RQvD8w:lol:

How many in your collection now?

Didn't he tell you,Susie?No more rubber toys.He has a new secretary now,she walks like a duck! *ducking*

He has a secretary?????
Wow.
Maybe I'd better address him as Mr. Styxie from now on.