Neal is again the target--still rocks as best guitarist.

by **conversationpc** » Sat Jun 30, 2007 1:10 am

Norum is a great player. Like Neal, he doesn't get the credit he deserves due to having been in the then keyboard heavy Europe in the 80s. I have a couple of his solo tracks and the playing there is very good.

by **larryfromnextdoor** » Sat Jun 30, 2007 1:14 am

this one..

by **Rick** » Sat Jun 30, 2007 1:19 am

larryfromnextdoor wrote:then i suggest learning the solo to Be Good To Yourself,, i would have never ever thought of it ...

That is a great solo, the dude knows how to write a solo that fits like a glove. A lot of pick harmonics in that solo too. I like that.

by **Behshad** » Sat Jun 30, 2007 1:21 am

larryfromnextdoor wrote:this one..

You got that right , Lar.
And he is even more underrated than Neal !

Total Control is one of the best albums in my collection!

by **NealIsGod** » Sat Jun 30, 2007 1:37 am

Red13JoePa wrote:For the most part he IS playing better than ever, but I agree w/ SinJin, gotta stop the orgasmic endings of songs now and the shrill 1 note holding and bending all over the place forever particularly in his solos now like SSB (still like it) and even in some songs? Not feeling that. Totally different than his guitar solos on Captured and the Escape DVD.

You won't tell Drew how to run his forum, but you will tell Neal how to play guitar.

by **Tomulator** » Sat Jun 30, 2007 1:43 am

Behshad wrote:
NealIsGod wrote:
Behshad wrote:I know at least 20 guitar players that SMOKE Neal, so he is far from being the best.

Yeah, sure.

When I say better, Im talkin about overall skills,,, not just speed, not just tapping, not just arppegios.

here's a few for now:

Alexi Lahi(Children Of Bodom)
Steve Vai
Joe Satriani
Yngwie Malmsteen
John Norum
John Petrucci
Mathias Eklund
Pontus Norgren
Vinnie Moore
Brian May
Tony McAlpine
Fredrik Akesson
Kuni
Gary Moore
Henrik Danhage(Evergrey)

All of the above guitar players can play anything Neal plays, but Neal can not play all that they have played.
Neal is NOT God , unless we're talkin about a short backstabbing God, then he is the almighty lord himself

You can add Steve Lukather to that list as well.

I do love Neal's playing though!

by **conversationpc** » Sat Jun 30, 2007 1:50 am

Behshad wrote:When I say better, Im talkin about overall skills,,, not just speed, not just tapping, not just arppegios.

We all realize that. Only morons think speed means better, though it is certainly a good skill to have when the song requires it.

Alexi Lahi(Children Of Bodom)
Steve Vai
Joe Satriani
Yngwie Malmsteen
John Norum
John Petrucci
Mathias Eklund
Pontus Norgren
Vinnie Moore
Brian May
Tony McAlpine
Fredrik Akesson
Kuni
Gary Moore
Henrik Danhage(Evergrey)

All of the above guitar players can play anything Neal plays, but Neal can not play all that they have played.
Neal is NOT God , unless we're talkin about a short backstabbing God, then he is the almighty lord himself

The other players listed above are all different and once you get as good as any of those guys are, you can't really quantify the skills as to who's better than who. They all play stuff that the other guys probably could not play like the others. As far as overall technical skills, melodicism, subtleties, phrasing, etc., Neal is just as good as the guys on that list, in my opinion and I would bet that most of them would admit as much.

by **Behshad** » Sat Jun 30, 2007 2:04 am

conversationpc wrote:
Behshad wrote:When I say better, Im talkin about overall skills,,, not just speed, not just tapping, not just arppegios.

We all realize that. Only morons think speed means better, though it is certainly a good skill to have when the song requires it.

Alexi Lahi(Children Of Bodom)
Steve Vai
Joe Satriani
Yngwie Malmsteen
John Norum
John Petrucci
Mathias Eklund
Pontus Norgren
Vinnie Moore
Brian May
Tony McAlpine
Fredrik Akesson
Kuni
Gary Moore
Henrik Danhage(Evergrey)

All of the above guitar players can play anything Neal plays, but Neal can not play all that they have played.
Neal is NOT God , unless we're talkin about a short backstabbing God, then he is the almighty lord himself

The other players listed above are all different and once you get as good as any of those guys are, you can't really quantify the skills as to who's better than who. They all play stuff that the other guys probably could not play like the others. As far as overall technical skills, melodicism, subtleties, phrasing, etc., Neal is just as good as the guys on that list, in my opinion and I would bet that most of them would admit as much.

Not completely true, Dave.
As an example, Steve Vai plays some amazing stuff that would make Neal Schon's jaws to drop:)
Neal is a great guitar player, just not the best . Thats all

(Althought to some people he is the best, but thats just the matter of opinion)

I think Neal needs to work on his long awaited solo album!

by **Ehwmatt** » Sat Jun 30, 2007 2:05 am

K, about that list, I don't wanna go through it name by name but Alexi Laiho is AWFUL... his playing is all punch-ins and the like... he can't do shit live and his tone sucks. And if the criteria for that list was "consistently improving," then including Yngwie is a laugh. I'm a fan, but gimme a break, the guy hasn't done anything different since I was a twinkle in my daddy's eye 22 years ago.

Neal may be an ass, but he's a guitar god. And yes, he is consistently playing better than ever aside from the fact that I think his live tone is a little bit scooped nowadays (sounds a tad bit heavy on the classic Journey stuff). Anway, here's a list of some great work since TBF, and I'm just talking about solos, a lot of the songs on the recent albums have featured some nice crunchy riffs too... I'm gonna ignore Red 13 for brevity's sake:

TBF:
When You Love a Woman
Can't Tame The Lion
When I Think Of You
One More
If He Should Break Your Heart

Arrival:
Higher Place (not one, but two incredible solos)
All The Way
Signs of Life
Livin' To Do

Generations:
Faith in the Heartland (several great moments here)
The Place In Your Heart
Beyond the Clouds (not a huge solo perse, but plenty of beautiful licks and color)

Soul Sirkus:
Coming Home
New Position
Soul Goes On

Say what you will about Neal's character, but he's a damn good guitar player and he's proved it time in and time out, even through his recent releases. And yes, he's getting better... when you play music for a living, it's hard not to get better. Were his chops better in the 70s? Maybe. But like a veteran athlete, a veteran musician learns subtleties and taste that can only come with experience and age.

by **Behshad** » Sat Jun 30, 2007 2:24 am

Ehwmatt wrote:K, about that list, I don't wanna go through it name by name but Alexi Laiho is AWFUL... his playing is all punch-ins and the like... he can't do shit live and his tone sucks. And if the criteria for that list was "consistently improving," then including Yngwie is a laugh. I'm a fan, but gimme a break, the guy hasn't done anything different since I was a twinkle in my daddy's eye 22 years ago.

Neal may be an ass, but he's a guitar god. And yes, he is consistently playing better than ever aside from the fact that I think his live tone is a little bit scooped nowadays (sounds a tad bit heavy on the classic Journey stuff). Anway, here's a list of some great work since TBF, and I'm just talking about solos, a lot of the songs on the recent albums have featured some nice crunchy riffs too... I'm gonna ignore Red 13 for brevity's sake:

TBF:
When You Love a Woman
Can't Tame The Lion
When I Think Of You
One More
If He Should Break Your Heart

Arrival:
Higher Place (not one, but two incredible solos)
All The Way
Signs of Life
Livin' To Do

Generations:
Faith in the Heartland (several great moments here)
The Place In Your Heart
Beyond the Clouds (not a huge solo perse, but plenty of beautiful licks and color)

Soul Sirkus:
Coming Home
New Position
Soul Goes On

Say what you will about Neal's character, but he's a damn good guitar player and he's proved it time in and time out, even through his recent releases. And yes, he's getting better... when you play music for a living, it's hard not to get better. Were his chops better in the 70s? Maybe. But like a veteran athlete, a veteran musician learns subtleties and taste that can only come with experience and age.

Awful!? at what playing the guitar!? The day you can play half as good as him, then you can call him awful.
He is an amazing guitar player with a bright future ahead of him.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=2iLIhLv8LuY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=heVjBCVgGpw

And you havent noticed anything different with Yngwie the past 20 years!?
His speed hasnt changed much cause he was fast to begin with , but his overall tech/ability is like day and night.
Just check out his jam with the Japanese Philharmonic Orchestra, and you will see how much knowledge and talent he has added under his belt.
Most people think that his orchestra deal was just like what many bands including metallica and aerosmith did.
But there is a huge difference in what Yngwie did. Yngwie didnt just play his old songs together with an orchestra. He wrote the music for every instrument
and then played along with them. 20 years ago, he couldnt have done that. So I think he must have learned a tad more during the time.

by **Ehwmatt** » Sat Jun 30, 2007 2:40 am

Behshad wrote:
Awful!? at what playing the guitar!? The day you can play half as good as him, then you can call him awful.
He is an amazing guitar player with a bright future ahead of him.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=2iLIhLv8LuY

And you havent noticed anything different with Yngwie the past 20 years!?
His speed hasnt changed, but his overall tech is like day and night.
Just check out his jam with the Japanese Philhasmonic Orchestra, and you will see how much knowledge and talent he has added under his belt.
Most people think that his orchestra deal was just like what many bands including metallica and aerosmith did.
But there is a huge difference in what Yngwie did. Yngwie didnt just play his old songs together with an orchestra. He wrote the music for every instrument
and then played along with them. 20 years ago, he couldnt have done that. So I think he must have learned a tad more during the time.

I'm sorry man, but all that Laiho video showed me (which I've seen before btw) is that his tone is bad. I don't mind CoB's albums at all, and I've seen them live. Like Dragonforce, they just couldn't hold it down live... just wasn't happening. Sloppiness and missed cues everywhere. If you listen to their albums on a good stereo or even a decent set of headphones, you can hear how Laiho's solos are totally punched in section by section. Is there anything wrong with that in itself? Of course not. It becomes a problem when the performance can't be replicated or matched live. It's one thing to play the recorded solo note for note, it's another to change it up... but it has to work. I can't go out and cover Kid Charlemagne and steal licks from Clapton and expect the solo to sound good. A guitarist (and a band for that matter) only earns my full devotion when they can pull it off live.

As for Yngwie, like I said I'm a fan, and his musical prowess is not up for debate... the guy is definitely a genius. But even some of his most diehard fans will tell you his bag of tricks has long consisted of transposing the same harmonic minor licks and arpeggios, phrasing, intervals, and all. A lot of people get tired of it, I still love listening to him because he's one of the best live performers I've ever seen, especially for the difficulty of his music (don't want to name names, but plenty of "virtuosos" are quite boring on stage... hard to blame them considering the music they're playing) and his tone and vibrato are honestly unparalleled. But, it's been a long time since I've been truly surprised by something he's played. Same thing with Dream Theater, who I love, but I mean, I bought their new album at the start of the month and I could have sat there the first time through every song and told you what they were going to do next. But hey, if it ain't broke, don't fix it right? I don't mind familiarity if it's what I liked about the band in the first place, but you'd have to be out of your mind to say Yngwie is doing radically different things and Neal is still stuck in 1981.

by **larryfromnextdoor** » Sat Jun 30, 2007 2:46 am

Behshad wrote:He is an amazing guitar player with a bright future ahead of him.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=2iLIhLv8LuY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=heVjBCVgGpw

wow,, i dont think i have ever seen anything like that before!! the timing on this is unreal... wow!! thanks..

by **Behshad** » Sat Jun 30, 2007 2:49 am

Ehwmatt wrote:
Behshad wrote:
Awful!? at what playing the guitar!? The day you can play half as good as him, then you can call him awful.
He is an amazing guitar player with a bright future ahead of him.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=2iLIhLv8LuY

And you havent noticed anything different with Yngwie the past 20 years!?
His speed hasnt changed, but his overall tech is like day and night.
Just check out his jam with the Japanese Philhasmonic Orchestra, and you will see how much knowledge and talent he has added under his belt.
Most people think that his orchestra deal was just like what many bands including metallica and aerosmith did.
But there is a huge difference in what Yngwie did. Yngwie didnt just play his old songs together with an orchestra. He wrote the music for every instrument
and then played along with them. 20 years ago, he couldnt have done that. So I think he must have learned a tad more during the time.

I'm sorry man, but all that Laiho video showed me (which I've seen before btw) is that his tone is bad. I don't mind CoB's albums at all, and I've seen them live. Like Dragonforce, they just couldn't hold it down live... just wasn't happening. Sloppiness and missed cues everywhere. If you listen to their albums on a good stereo or even a decent set of headphones, you can hear how Laiho's solos are totally punched in section by section. Is there anything wrong with that in itself? Of course not. It becomes a problem when the performance can't be replicated or matched live. It's one thing to play the recorded solo note for note, it's another to change it up... but it has to work. I can't go out and cover Kid Charlemagne and steal licks from Clapton and expect the solo to sound good. A guitarist (and a band for that matter) only earns my full devotion when they can pull it off live.

As for Yngwie, like I said I'm a fan, and his musical prowess is not up for debate... the guy is definitely a genius. But even some of his most diehard fans will tell you his bag of tricks has long consisted of transposing the same harmonic minor licks and arpeggios, phrasing, intervals, and all. A lot of people get tired of it, I still love listening to him because he's one of the best live performers I've ever seen, especially for the difficulty of his music (don't want to name names, but plenty of "virtuosos" are quite boring on stage... hard to blame them considering the music they're playing) and his tone and vibrato are honestly unparalleled. But, it's been a long time since I've been truly surprised by something he's played. Same thing with Dream Theater, who I love, but I mean, I bought their new album at the start of the month and I could have sat there the first time through every song and told you what they were going to do next. But hey, if it ain't broke, don't fix it right? I don't mind familiarity if it's what I liked about the band in the first place, but you'd have to be out of your mind to say Yngwie is doing radically different things and Neal is still stuck in 1981.

Yngwie has tried many different things, Neal hasnt. Plain and simple.
As far as thinkin Alexi is sloppy,, he mustve been wasted when you saw him live, cause every I saw him live he was precise and just amazing.

by **Ehwmatt** » Sat Jun 30, 2007 2:53 am

Haha, alright, neither of us is changing the other's mind here. Move along

by **Socratic Methodist** » Sat Jun 30, 2007 2:59 am

Is this like the 'My dad can beat up your dad' argument?

Here's two more for ya:

Criss Oliva - most uderrated guitarist ever
Michael Angelo Batio - the fastest, most innovative shredder (if you are into such things)

by **brywool** » Sat Jun 30, 2007 3:02 am

lights1961 wrote:I just want to stir up Neal style.. He is still the most underrated guitar player ever and cant stay that pissed about this situation.....Still mad that JSS wont be with em....However, in time When Journey comes back if its with Jeremey... all you folks who ran away will be left in the dust or crawling back---and praising the new rock from Journey----

MARK MY WORDS. as of 6/28/07.

Rick

Listening and BUYING are two different things.

by **ArnelRox** » Sat Jun 30, 2007 3:10 am

Ehwmatt wrote:Haha, alright, neither of us is changing the other's mind here. Move along

Wombat-talk? :-)

by **ArnelRox** » Sat Jun 30, 2007 3:12 am

larryfromnextdoor wrote:
Behshad wrote:He is an amazing guitar player with a bright future ahead of him.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=2iLIhLv8LuY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=heVjBCVgGpw

wow,, i dont think i have ever seen anything like that before!! the timing on this is unreal... wow!! thanks..

LISTEN to Larry folks. When it comes to guitars, he knows what he's talking about. Getting him to say this means it's REALLY something.

by **NealIsGod** » Sat Jun 30, 2007 3:13 am

JR (Susie) wrote:
larryfromnextdoor wrote:
Behshad wrote:He is an amazing guitar player with a bright future ahead of him.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=2iLIhLv8LuY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=heVjBCVgGpw

wow,, i dont think i have ever seen anything like that before!! the timing on this is unreal... wow!! thanks..

LISTEN to Larry folks. When it comes to guitars, he knows what he's talking about. Getting him to say this means it's REALLY something.

Bah, if I paid Lar five bucks he would say the same about me. :lol:

by **Red13JoePa** » Sat Jun 30, 2007 3:17 am

NealIsGod wrote:
JR (Susie) wrote:LISTEN to Larry folks. When it comes to guitars, he knows what he's talking about. Getting him to say this means it's REALLY something.

Bah, if I paid Lar five bucks he would say the same about me.

LOL!!! Classic NealIsGod. And True.

That's 5 cylinders of Pringles for Lar.

by **ArnelRox** » Sat Jun 30, 2007 3:17 am

NealIsGod wrote:Bah, if I paid Lar five bucks he would say the same about me.

Shh dont be letting out his Texas secrets :-)

by **NealIsGod** » Sat Jun 30, 2007 3:18 am

Red13JoePa wrote:
NealIsGod wrote:
JR (Susie) wrote:LISTEN to Larry folks. When it comes to guitars, he knows what he's talking about. Getting him to say this means it's REALLY something.

Bah, if I paid Lar five bucks he would say the same about me.

LOL!!! Classic NealIsGod. And True.

That's 5 cylinders of Pringles for Lar.

They have guacamole Pringles now, you know.

by **conversationpc** » Sat Jun 30, 2007 3:29 am

larryfromnextdoor wrote:
Behshad wrote:He is an amazing guitar player with a bright future ahead of him.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=2iLIhLv8LuY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=heVjBCVgGpw

wow,, i dont think i have ever seen anything like that before!! the timing on this is unreal... wow!! thanks..

Yes, excellent synchronicity there. Unreal for playing something that fast.

by **larryfromnextdoor** » Sat Jun 30, 2007 3:34 am

hahhahahaha :lol:

, ya'll go jump in the lake!! except suz.. :wink:

" I think that at it's core, this is a Susie-and-Elaine problem that

requires, a Susie-and-Elaine solution! And, who better to do that than.. Elaine and Susie! Susie and Elaine"

by **ArnelRox** » Sat Jun 30, 2007 3:35 am

larryfromnextdoor wrote:hahhahahaha , ya'll go jump in the lake!! except suz.. " I think that at it's core, this is a Susie-and-Elaine problem that

requires, a Susie-and-Elaine solution! And, who better to do that than.. Elaine and Susie! Susie and Elaine"

See what I mean? This is how Lar usually posts. But when he heard that guitar work he was actually coherent for a minute :-)

by **Red13JoePa** » Sat Jun 30, 2007 3:37 am

Yes, a guitar talking idiot savant, that Lar.

by **Socratic Methodist** » Sat Jun 30, 2007 3:38 am

Once again, here is the CLEANEST, fastest player out there today

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiT6qtM09tI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qG74eVb6V10&mode=related&search=

by **conversationpc** » Sat Jun 30, 2007 3:38 am

JR (Susie) wrote:
larryfromnextdoor wrote:hahhahahaha , ya'll go jump in the lake!! except suz.. " I think that at it's core, this is a Susie-and-Elaine problem that

requires, a Susie-and-Elaine solution! And, who better to do that than.. Elaine and Susie! Susie and Elaine"

See what I mean? This is how Lar usually posts. But when he heard that guitar work he was actually coherent for a minute

Unlike the rest of us, he needs to down a few shots first and then he'll stop with the slurring. :lol:

by **conversationpc** » Sat Jun 30, 2007 3:45 am

Socratic Methodist wrote:Once again, here is the CLEANEST, fastest player out there today

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiT6qtM09tI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qG74eVb6V10&mode=related&search=

Great stuff. There's some very tasteful, melodic soloing there as well. Better than most of the other stuff I've heard from him.

If Jason Becker hadn't come down with Lou Gehrig's disease, he'd be right up there with him... :cry:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3fvB4QO1qo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jK978921Yw

Despite the fact that he can no longer move his arms or legs, the guy still writes music. Amazing...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFjQgDe_a0E

by **SF-Dano** » Sat Jun 30, 2007 3:45 am

Neal is absolutely one of the greats. It all depends what we prefer in our guitar players. Somebody mentioned Jimmy Pager earlier. While Jimmy was never one of the cleanest guitarists, he was a great songwriter and innovative live player for his time.

Some other greats that come to mind that have not been mentioned.

Steve Morse (Can play any style extremely well, highly recognized by his peers if not by the public)
Alex Scolnik (sp?)
Alan Holdsworth
George Lynch

And for their time these guys were awesome (ps. some still hang pretty well today)
Jeff Beck
Ritchie Blackmore
Jimi Hendrix
Frank Marino
Michael Schenker
Randy Rhodes
(the what if factor)
Robin Trower
Ronnie Montrose

There is are alot. Best is an opinion.

PS. If you are going to include Brian May in your list of greats and not Neal Schon you need to check what you been smoking. Talk about not improving one's playing in years. That is Brian May in a nut shell. IMO

MR

Neal is again the target--still rocks as best guitarist.

Re: Neal is again the target--still rocks as best guitarist.

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