Thanks for taking all the fun away

[Monker]

Yep, that audio recording equipment Jeff mentioned being brought on the bus was obviously just a karaoke machine so Ross could impress friends with his dead-on ZZ Top impression!

Or, maybe it was to just fuck with your head. Obviously, it worked.

[Monker]

Monker,it is obvious that Journey as a band (along with the Mgmt.) ARE in control of all the things they do.They are the only ones responsible for the past,the present and the future.They have built up the past with hard work,had a good chance of revival in the present but they blew it all and jeopardized their future.It's that simple.

Sure, they are in control of what THEY do - not what YOU do.

There WAS hope for new material.When JSS posted about working on new songs which would bring back the classic Journey vein,he wasn't lying.

No, he was giving you a false hope. "Working on material" is one thing. Actualy taking the time to record, produce, release, and distribute it is another. Before JSS, how many times has Journey said they were working on a new album? That has happened almost EVERY YEAR since Perry left the band. If Journey followed through on the things they say, we would have around eight Augeri era albums, a concept album, a video box set, and on and on and on.

You're right, it's not JSS"s fault you walked into that trap...it's yours for believing in a band who has turned their backs on their own words for YEARS before JSS joined. Sorry you didn't see that sooner.

So what I am saying is that not only Jeff was thrown under the bus,but also the opportunity of a fresh Journey comeback.

Impossible. No label is going to sign Journey in the state that they are in. Without a label, Journey has to do everything on their own. Did not the release of Generations show that they do not WANT to do it all on their own? Journey will NEVER make a 'comeback', no matter who is singing because of this reason alone.

I agree that this band will always be under Steve Perry's shadow,but the JSS formula was a huge chance to prove that they could be relevant again,as much as the current music industry situation allows it.No one expected a revival of the 80-83 era magnitude,but chances were good for them to reach a new peak.

The end result of the JSS 'formula' is that Journey will NEVER make it with a singer who radicaly changes the sound and look of the band. If labels were drooling over a JSS fronted Journey, he would still be there. The truth is that they had to start completely over with their post-TBF 'comeback'...and this time they had no label. It was never going to happen.

[color=darkblue]It doesn't matter WHEN it happens - a change of lead singers will always be a huge issue for any band at any time in their history.
Sammy was too good to be dissed.He managed to win over a lot of fans,although no one forgot DLR and many want him back desperately,even after decades since he's been gone.
The VH situation is a good comparison.JSS was Journey's Sammy,as Jeff would have been capable to bring back to life a dying band.
The proof is in what he has done during last year's tour.
I was in the audience and I saw the people's reaction.Those were NOT the Internet fans,you know?

It matters a LOT 'when' the change happens. You are talking the difference between packing into stadiums and fairgrounds, selling 8 million albums, and 200,000, of being voted the most popular band in America and only getting attention when a TV show uses your song. Even if Journey's audience was cut in 1/2 back in 1983, they would STILL be a strong force. Nowadays, even if it is DOUBLED, they are still a second rate band who can't headline a huge tour or sell a platinum album. It doesn't matter who they choose to sing - that is where they will be until this band no longer exists.

Unfortunately,I have to agree with this.I said it before,our online debates will not change the situation too much.The casual fan who has no idea about all the details will buy the concert ticket next year and maybe even an album.We cannot talk about a real boycott that would affect Journey's future touring or CD sales.
However,the media outlets are negatively commenting on the situation and THAT will get to the casual fan.No one can predict the long term effects of these comments,but they may work.

Why do you think they will wait until next year to do anything? By then, most of this will blow over and most people away from these forums will be right back at the concert. You say nobody can predict this? I'll predict that Journey will be right back at the 'Under the Radar" venues, or packaged with other 80's acts at the auditoriums. It won't have much affect at all.

They should have guarded that credibility after SP left,but obviously they have failed,especially in the last couple years.
Steve Perry was the only one who knew exactly how to remain credible and how to gain people's respect.It has nothing to do with age,it's all about class and intelligence.

It depends on what you mean by 'credibility'. Journey's credibility, IMO, comes from their songs - and those have not change.

I'm sure Brian May would be much smarter than Neal Schon.

I won't argue with that.

[Red13JoePa]

You're right... 4 good songs out of 14 doesn't make it suck

I happen to disagree with only the utmost respect. Read Andrew's review of the album, btw? I'm not saying he dictates public opinion and though it paced considerally behind Arrival in his overall rating it came in at 90+.

In Self Defense, Gone Crazy and to lesser extents Believe and Butterfly are prolly tastes too difficult to aquire for some granted. But I think everything else especially FITH, TPIY, OOHW, BT are pretty immediate and accessible. Just think "sucks" is a major overstatement. I can appreciate the school of thought that condemns it as a rushed hodgepodge though I don't agree with that.

[AR]

I disagree with those who say that the fans will still be there at the same levels after yet another round of musical chairs in the lead singer position. Yes they were able to headline shows with Augeri in the sheds and arenas with proper support acts. Then they switch to Jeff, and they were fortunate to be out on tour with Def Leppard, so it worked out. They had the luxury of not being the only name on the bill, and 15,000 a night saw the goods that Jeff delivered.

Now with yet another switch at the singer spot, it drops them to the level of where Foreigner is right now. Even smaller venues than before and most likely opening for bands of lesser status than Def Leppard.

If the Classic Rock Main Event tour was held right now, Journey would no longer be the headline act.

[chf34jmac]

As things stand right now at this moment in time I don't believe they can be a headliner anymore. They would be stuck opening for a reunited Menudo.

[conversationpc]

If the Classic Rock Main Event tour was held right now, Journey would no longer be the headline act.

They probably wouldn't draw the same numbers but I think they would most certainly be the headliner.

[Red13JoePa]

As things stand right now at this moment in time I don't believe they can be a headliner anymore. They would be stuck opening for a reunited Menudo.

Unless like if AR said, they're relegated, like a Foreigner or Survivor, or Pat Benatar to headling 3k seaters like the Keswick.

I think that for the 10k sheds, though, they're gonna have to be leading off on a 2-3 band ticket. Me? I'd just as soon check them out at the former, with a chance for a killer setlist, than the latter.

[*Laura]

No, he was giving you a false hope. "Working on material" is one thing. Actualy taking the time to record, produce, release, and distribute it is another. Before JSS, how many times has Journey said they were working on a new album? That has happened almost EVERY YEAR since Perry left the band. If Journey followed through on the things they say, we would have around eight Augeri era albums, a concept album, a video box set, and on and on and on.

False hope?I really don’t think so.JSS didn’t post that to deceive people.They were working on something,but obviously,their decision to fire JSS killed the project.
I am positive that a new album would have been recorded IF Jeff would have stayed in the band.

The reasons why Journey didn’t have a sustained recording activity in the last 10 years are not very clear,at least for me.
I can only suppose it’s related to their own creativity,to the management or other private or business reason that I don’t know about.
They disappointed the fans with the poor number of post-Perry albums?Guess so.

Personally,I believe that touring was more important than recording during the Augeri-era.It was all about being on the road and making a living.

No label is going to sign Journey in the state that they are in.

That’s true.They blew it.

The end result of the JSS 'formula' is that Journey will NEVER make it with a singer who radicaly changes the sound and look of the band. If labels were drooling over a JSS fronted Journey, he would still be there. The truth is that they had to start completely over with their post-TBF 'comeback'...and this time they had no label. It was never going to happen.

In MANY people’s opinion,Jeff energized the band.It was a huge change.
However,regarding the sound of the band,let’s get real: ANY singer after Perry means a change of sound.
The classic songs were built around Perry’s vocals (I’m quoting Schon here),so that’s the main reason why any other singer changes the feeling.
What made JSS good for Journey were his vocal skills (he did justice to the Journey catalog),his stage force both vocally and personality wise AND his songwriting capacity.
Don’t tell me he would have brought too much "metal" in Journey.JSS is capable of writing and singing AOR perfectly.

The "look of the band"?What,is JSS too tall to sing in Journey or something?His t-shirts don’t match the Dirty Dozen?
You cannot be serious.The whole "look" subject is simply ridiculous.

It matters a LOT 'when' the change happens.

To me it’s not necessarily a matter of "when" but a matter of "who".Something tells me that Van Halen would have been labeled as a second league band if they would have hired a DLR clone.
With Sammy – a singer with a huge personality and great writing skills- they were re-born.
That’s why I said that JSS was Journey’s Sammy.
But now it’s too late.

It depends on what you mean by 'credibility'. Journey's credibility, IMO, comes from their songs - and those have not change.

They are still relying on their past musical credibility – the Classic songs.
However,they had a chance to come up with something new and fuel the fans’ interest.

Oh,and the credibility I was reffering to is the sum of many things,not only songs.Just look at the way this band has conducted itself in the past,then look at the way they handled things recently – enough to lose whatever credibility they’ve had.

[Socratic Methodist]

As things stand right now at this moment in time I don't believe they can be a headliner anymore. They would be stuck opening for a reunited Menudo.

Why don't they change their name TO Menudo? I mean instead of getting kicked out when you reach a certain age, you can get kicked out when you reach a certain popularity level......

Disclaimer: Frig and fro reserve the right to change this level based upon the time of the month.

[strangegrey]

To everyone connected with the band. Thanks for flushing it all down the toilet. The fun, the get togethers, the hope for new material, and a final escape from the huge shadow Mr. Perry has created.

You had a chance to break away. Van Halen did it with Sammy, and this was your chance. Instead you all blew it. The crowds would have still been there, you could have still played the dirty dozen and lined your pockets each summer. But you also could have had credibility as artists with new material and a slightly new direction. Most importantly, you would have had credibility with the fans, but I guess we don't matter do we?

No offense to who may be the next in the growing line of lead singers who you trash. The one potential choice is a great guy and hugely talented. You already had exactly who you needed though.

I hope there are more Brian May's out there who call you all out for your cowardly actions.

Well said AR.

To Journey, management and whatever mental midget Nick Schlong has on his private payroll to stroke his ego. You all screwed up big time. Don't expect my hard earned dollars ever again....

[Blueskies]

I've forgotten what this thread is about and too lazy to read it , but just going by the title tells me it HAS to be about Monker.

[brywool]

What ever happened to him after Purple Rain?

Paisley Park- Not a great album, but it had Raspberry Beret on it.
Sign of the Times- Good album with some good hits (You Got the Look, etc.)
Under the Cherry Moon- decent album with some good tunes (Mountains, Kiss, youneedanotherholeinyourhead)
Batman- Great Record with a hit or 2 (Batdance, PartyMan, etc.) , but a great friggin' record
Symbol- Great Record with a few hits (My Name is Prince, 7)
Diamonds and Pearls- Great Record with lots of hits off it (Gett Off, Cream, Diamonds and Pearls)

ETC.

Prince continues to make NEW MUSIC on his own terms. Some of it horrible. Some of it BRILLIANT. He also sacked his record company who were completely screwing with his career and not letting him do what HE wants. When this happened to Journey on Arrival, they just pumped out more ballads that the record company wanted. In all fairness, Journey then went their own way and found themself without a record company and nobody interested in them.

Prince played the superbowl (and kicked major ass) while Journey was f'ing around with tapes (or was that after that?).

As much as I used to dig Journey, I think that Prince will be remembered long after Journey's stage tracks are wiped by a disgruntled employee...

[Socratic Methodist]

What ever happened to him after Purple Rain?

Paisley Park- Not a great album, but it had Raspberry Beret on it.
Sign of the Times- Good album with some good hits (You Got the Look, etc.)
Under the Cherry Moon- decent album with some good tunes (Mountains, Kiss, youneedanotherholeinyourhead)
Batman- Great Record with a hit or 2 (Batdance, PartyMan, etc.) , but a great friggin' record
Symbol- Great Record with a few hits (My Name is Prince, 7)
Diamonds and Pearls- Great Record with lots of hits off it (Gett Off, Cream, Diamonds and Pearls)

ETC.

Prince continues to make NEW MUSIC on his own terms. Some of it horrible. Some of it BRILLIANT. He also sacked his record company who were completely screwing with his career and not letting him do what HE wants. When this happened to Journey on Arrival, they just pumped out more ballads that the record company wanted. In all fairness, Journey then went their own way and found themself without a record company and nobody interested in them.

Prince played the superbowl (and kicked major ass) while Journey was f'ing around with tapes (or was that after that?).

As much as I used to dig Journey, I think that Prince will be remembered long after Journey's stage tracks are wiped by a disgruntled employee...

Hey......what's up?

BTW, Paisley Park wasn't the name of the CD, it was 'Around the World in a Day'. PP was a track off that CD. And it is also Prince's record label.