Augeri Somewhat Vindicated ?

[Gordon from Edinburgh]

anyone who ever sang for journey should feel vindicated. };C)

Only if they sang.

Dont give me any crap about Perry - this band is a piece of shit without him. Shitty people and shitty management. JSS was the chance to for re-birth. Never on the Perry scale but a chance nonetheless. JOURNEY WITHOUT PERRY IS NOTHING. IT WILL CONTINUE TO BE NOTHING. I could tell you about shitloads of people who said to me - why you going to see Journey? (in edinburgh 06 and glasgow 07) without Perry thats not Journey ye know. They were fuckin right. Can you imagine the stones without Jagger? Or Zep without Plant? Journey belongs in that stratosphere and without Perry - they belong in the gutter. Fuck em. These guys ripped Perry even while he sang his ass off on Escape music. They did not realise what they had and what he made them, until he was gone. God bless you Steve, the best damn singer i ever heard - who unfortunately sang with the biggest idiots on the planet. I keep lisnin to the boots and the live albums. This was perfection people and it cannot be replaced. It is all about memories now and fuck all else. I'm angry at these assholes but i fuckin love Perry - he has class and grace and has kept his legendary status intact. Even Elvis, Dylan and Springsteen walk in his shadow beceause at some point they all chased the dollar. PERRY NEVER DID. You want proof? He could come back now and write his own cheque - but he will never CRACK THE STONE.

[cscott]

Hey All -

Just a quick note to thank everyone for their kind responses to my first post. Especially Andrew calling it the "post of the week". Quite a compliment indeed! - Speaking of Andrew - he had alluded to forthcoming info regarding the new Tall Stories album - Does that mean that we are going to finally hear from SA in the form of an interview as well? Any ideas when that will take place? It sure would be nice to hear from him - not so much to get any dirt, but to check in with his health and what he has been doing for the past year.

[cineman74]

There's a pattern here that's not unique to Journey. A lot of bands I like, Van Halen and Anthrax are two that come to mind, do the same thing (apparently there's also some stuff going on with Night Ranger and Jeff Watson, but who knows what that's about). Usually one or two members are calling the shots and seem to think people will play along with whatever decisions about hiring and firing members are made. It often shows an astounding disconnect with the way their audiences think. Come to think of it, maybe those bands could combine forces, call themselves Vanthrax and solve the problem.

But I digress...

Augeri's effort in Journey was solid. While I didn't think the albums featuring him matched those with Perry, he, by all accounts, handled his situation with grace and dignity and sounds like a really nice human being. Sometimes, that still means something in this world. These guys that come in, they have no power in a band, no leverage. They get treated poorly and it just turns out to be a bad situation. The best they can do is keep their composure and look like the winner when the smoke clears.

[mikemarrs]

i might be wrong but it looks like perry left them hanging twice.once right after raised on radio in '86 or so when he took the long break and no more studio albums were released to keep the cash flow going and then again right after trial by fire in '96 when they were expecting him to tour and he didn't.its kind of funny in a way because you can imagine neal and jon having financial obligations in the 80's and being left in the lurch and then finally working their way above ground only to have it happen again.i could see where they might've been frustrated as hell at perry even though they are supposedly assholes.

[RunningAlone Pgh]

Dont give me any crap about Perry -............. - but he will never CRACK THE STONE.

Gee, Gordon - you really should quit holding back and say exactly what you feel!

And you said it perfectly. Good to "see" you.

Kim

[amaron]

i might be wrong but it looks like perry left them hanging twice.once right after raised on radio in '86 or so when he took the long break and no more studio albums were released to keep the cash flow going and then again right after trial by fire in '96 when they were expecting him to tour and he didn't.its kind of funny in a way because you can imagine neal and jon having financial obligations in the 80's and being left in the lurch and then finally working their way above ground only to have it happen again.i could see where they might've been frustrated as hell at perry even though they are supposedly assholes.

I agree with 1986. That will always be on Perry IMO.... but 97? I'm not sure any more.

Maybe they should have given him some more time.

[Don]

For quite awile I have been reading the posts on this board and have even e-mailed Andrew on a few occasions regarding different topics, (and yes, he was kind enough to respond in a very quick manner) but have never really felt the need to throw in my 2 cents until now. I have to admit that when the whole Tapegate thing went down, I thought that SA was beat up quite badly for something that may or may not been of his own doing. I won't belabor the subject here because it has been addressed a million times, but suffice it to say that most people here believe that his perfomances where at least partially enhanced with recordings for the last tour and maybe even more. Additionally, I think that we can for the most part agree that we will probably never get the whole story, and thus, we will never be able to know for certain why SA would agree to participate in something like that. Let's face it, we weren't there, we didnt read the contracts, or know what kind of legal or financial pressures were involved. What we do know is that SA was instrumental in reviving Journey's career and literally brought them back from the dead to be able to play large venues again. We also know that in order to do this, Journey was on the road constantly year after year - even adding on additional legs and shows to thier touring schedule to the point that SA's voice finally gave out. I personally had the opportunity to see them with SA 4 times, and for the most part I thought he sounded pretty good, and for what he lacked in vocal power, he made up for in showmanship and likibility. Needles to say, I was disappointed by how many people on this board seemed to forget all that SA had done for the band and only focused on his eroding vocal capabilites toward the end of his tenure with Journey. Yeah, he disappointed us, but he still deserves credit for his contribution in spite of his downfalls.


Well, now that JSS has been dismissed of his duties as well, it seems that there is a different attitude toward SA as well. I am very pleased to see some positive remarks being made about SA again, and even though there are still criticisms, they aren't without merit and are pretty fair observations. It's nice to see some people actually standing up and showing support and even gratitude for SA's contribution and not be attacked by others for a change. Personally, I think that SA had the hardest job in rock and roll and did his best for many years. I wish him and his family well, and I thank him for putting on a great performances and entertaining myself and my friends. On that note, I wonder if Journey will ever be a great band again, or who they can get that will make them be a band that I would want to see again.

Great post, and while I agree with a lot of what was said here...I am a bit surprised at what level Steve P. is now getting off the hook by so many.
Let's not forget that he decided-for whatever reasons-but he still dicided to play a role in it. While we don't know the consequences if he hadn't, he still did it.
I am not self employed, but when I had a boss, if he or the company had asked me to do something that was wrong, if I had done it, I would have been just as wrong.
He could have not done it and spoken out why, maybe. I know, much easier to sit here and type than do if I was in his shoes. I would think that speaking out when being asked to do something like this would't fall into confidentiality agreements.
To have it make sense or convinve me, I still need to read a really good reason as to why so many now think that Steve A. should't be blamed, why it wasn't his fault, did nothing wrong, should be off the hook, etc..
Just because we are really learning now what shmuck's people involved in Journey are and how they treated Jeff, doesn't mean that Steve P. should be so innocent now.
I'm not trying to stir up crap at all and I actually really want to understand why he should be forgiven as I really liked the guy and would just like to read a well thought out reason from someone who doesn't blame him anymore, as I actually would like to also.
I would like to be where a lot of you are with Steve A., so let me read some really good reasons why you don't blame him anymore.

I'll answer your last question.


1) It was a job quickly coming to an end. Grab all you can WHILE you can.
2) I'm sure he was MORE than pressured into doing what he did.
3) If the founding member and the band's transgender keyboardist didn't care about the "legacy" or the possibility of being exposed, why should a singer that enjoyed zero commercial success? It's unfathomable to think that Augeri came up with this idea and talked mangement and Schon-Friga into it. My guess is Augeri was the last to be told of what was GOING to happen.
4) I've noticed a pattern devoloping over the last 20 years. Perry-fired. Augeri-forced to walk the plank and then discarded. Soto-lauded, promised, used, knifed and tossed to the side of the road. These guys are simply not capable of making decisions that end with any sort of class. While I DON'T disagree with all of their decisions, I certainly disagree with the manner they they were handled. These guys are the Al-Qaeda of the music business.

Great posts from all parties above, especially Dan's power points.

[portland]

Nothing like a trip down memory lane.

[Michigan Girl]

I am soooo L'ingMAO ...

Oh, it took a minute of this>>:? and this >> but it is LMAO funny!!!

[Andrew]

Not sure why a 2007 thread is back in business...

[stevew2]

I think one response following the TapeGate episode reveals a lot. Neal Schon had a quote that went something like this: "It didn't happen, and if it did, I wasn't aware of it." Wasn't aware of it?!? Wasn't aware that Kevin Elson (from Journey's 'Escape' commanding heights) was working a sound board at the European festivals, funneling the recordings and doing the mixing?!? .... Wow. That's quite a whopper. ("Gee, Kevin -- what are the chances of seeing you at our concert?!? Imagine meeting you here, simply by happenstance! I see you brought your own soundboard -- whatcha doin' there?!?")

This is a question that many started asking even before before JSS even stepped on stage.

Then when Augeri was thrown under the bus, the question I posted was "Why does Kevin Elson still have a job?"
It was
Of course, we got beaten up at the time, and probably will again (oh well

Cat

I d like to run that fucker over on Frigas gay bus. fun when Steve Augeri was in the band, I wish I could get them days back, what a real bummer,and it didnt have to happen like that either

[stevew2]

Not sure why a 2007 thread is back in business...

Thats what happens when you split up the forums ,there is nothing happening with Journey now, cause they are rakin in the Walmart money and settin on the ass,and there isnt much else to talk about.

[brywool]

He (jss) didn't win over this perry fan. I never thought he was a good fit for Journey. Good singer but not for Journey.

[Since 78]

For quite awile I have been reading the posts on this board and have even e-mailed Andrew on a few occasions regarding different topics, (and yes, he was kind enough to respond in a very quick manner) but have never really felt the need to throw in my 2 cents until now. I have to admit that when the whole Tapegate thing went down, I thought that SA was beat up quite badly for something that may or may not been of his own doing. I won't belabor the subject here because it has been addressed a million times, but suffice it to say that most people here believe that his perfomances where at least partially enhanced with recordings for the last tour and maybe even more. Additionally, I think that we can for the most part agree that we will probably never get the whole story, and thus, we will never be able to know for certain why SA would agree to participate in something like that. Let's face it, we weren't there, we didnt read the contracts, or know what kind of legal or financial pressures were involved. What we do know is that SA was instrumental in reviving Journey's career and literally brought them back from the dead to be able to play large venues again. We also know that in order to do this, Journey was on the road constantly year after year - even adding on additional legs and shows to thier touring schedule to the point that SA's voice finally gave out. I personally had the opportunity to see them with SA 4 times, and for the most part I thought he sounded pretty good, and for what he lacked in vocal power, he made up for in showmanship and likibility. Needles to say, I was disappointed by how many people on this board seemed to forget all that SA had done for the band and only focused on his eroding vocal capabilites toward the end of his tenure with Journey. Yeah, he disappointed us, but he still deserves credit for his contribution in spite of his downfalls.


Well, now that JSS has been dismissed of his duties as well, it seems that there is a different attitude toward SA as well. I am very pleased to see some positive remarks being made about SA again, and even though there are still criticisms, they aren't without merit and are pretty fair observations. It's nice to see some people actually standing up and showing support and even gratitude for SA's contribution and not be attacked by others for a change. Personally, I think that SA had the hardest job in rock and roll and did his best for many years. I wish him and his family well, and I thank him for putting on a great performances and entertaining myself and my friends. On that note, I wonder if Journey will ever be a great band again, or who they can get that will make them be a band that I would want to see again.

Great post, and while I agree with a lot of what was said here...I am a bit surprised at what level Steve P. is now getting off the hook by so many.
Let's not forget that he decided-for whatever reasons-but he still dicided to play a role in it. While we don't know the consequences if he hadn't, he still did it.
I am not self employed, but when I had a boss, if he or the company had asked me to do something that was wrong, if I had done it, I would have been just as wrong.
He could have not done it and spoken out why, maybe. I know, much easier to sit here and type than do if I was in his shoes. I would think that speaking out when being asked to do something like this would't fall into confidentiality agreements.
To have it make sense or convinve me, I still need to read a really good reason as to why so many now think that Steve A. should't be blamed, why it wasn't his fault, did nothing wrong, should be off the hook, etc..
Just because we are really learning now what shmuck's people involved in Journey are and how they treated Jeff, doesn't mean that Steve P. should be so innocent now.
I'm not trying to stir up crap at all and I actually really want to understand why he should be forgiven as I really liked the guy and would just like to read a well thought out reason from someone who doesn't blame him anymore, as I actually would like to also.
I would like to be where a lot of you are with Steve A., so let me read some really good reasons why you don't blame him anymore.

I'll answer your last question.


1) It was a job quickly coming to an end. Grab all you can WHILE you can.
2) I'm sure he was MORE than pressured into doing what he did.
3) If the founding member and the band's transgender keyboardist didn't care about the "legacy" or the possibility of being exposed, why should a singer that enjoyed zero commercial success? It's unfathomable to think that Augeri came up with this idea and talked mangement and Schon-Friga into it. My guess is Augeri was the last to be told of what was GOING to happen.
4) I've noticed a pattern devoloping over the last 20 years. Perry-fired. Augeri-forced to walk the plank and then discarded. Soto-lauded, promised, used, knifed and tossed to the side of the road. These guys are simply not capable of making decisions that end with any sort of class. While I DON'T disagree with all of their decisions, I certainly disagree with the manner they they were handled. These guys are the Al-Qaeda of the music business.

Great posts from all parties above, especially Dan's power points.

Well, I see you're' alive. That's good. The one I dug up was better!

[Don]

Well, I see you're' alive. That's good. The one I dug up was better!

I ran across it on Google while looking for something else. When I saw the last comment and who authored it, I had to bring it back to the top of the page. Really, more of an attempt to get this place jump-started again. Without controversy, this place just becomes like those Pineda/Perry sites, where if you're not a woman you'd have to be gay to handle all the estrogen flowing around those boards.

[Saint John]

I'll answer your last question.


1) It was a job quickly coming to an end. Grab all you can WHILE you can.
2) I'm sure he was MORE than pressured into doing what he did.
3) If the founding member and the band's transgender keyboardist didn't care about the "legacy" or the possibility of being exposed, why should a singer that enjoyed zero commercial success? It's unfathomable to think that Augeri came up with this idea and talked mangement and Schon-Friga into it. My guess is Augeri was the last to be told of what was GOING to happen.
4) I've noticed a pattern devoloping over the last 20 years. Perry-fired. Augeri-forced to walk the plank and then discarded. Soto-lauded, promised, used, knifed and tossed to the side of the road. These guys are simply not capable of making decisions that end with any sort of class. While I DON'T disagree with all of their decisions, I certainly disagree with the manner they they were handled. These guys are the Al-Qaeda of the music business.

That was an appropriate post, at the time. It was emotional, angry, part factual and part fiction. I have never hidden my frustration(s) with the semi-live concerts. Let's explore a bit, using hindsight:

#1 True. The gravy train was nearing the finish line. Steve Augeri was hired to sell records, win over fans and sing the old songs. He failed miserably on the first part, did an adequate job with the second part and started out doing well with the last part. Unfortunately, he ended his tenure in Journey with little class or integrity.

#2 True. Without question, Steve Augeri didn't wield any power in Journey. I'm quite confident that the idea wasn't his, that he didn't like it, that he fought against it and that he ultimately, and unfortunately, caved. Steve Augeri is an incredibly intelligent man but he has no excuse for agreeing to do what he did.

#3 True. It still, to this day, boggles my mind that they chose to take this path. And, while it doesn't anger me nearly as much as it used to, it remains a concept that I'd like to try to understand. I just don't get their logic, as far as risk/reward goes. Disrespecting artistry, professionalism and past and present bandmates falls mainly on 3 members ... Steve Augeri, Neal Schon and Jon Cain (I'm assuming Ross has very little say-so in the band). However, the umbrella of guilt also includes, but is not limited to, Ross Valory, Deen Castronovo, Irving Azoff, John Baruck, Kevin Elson and Steve Perry.

I'll address the Steve Perry inclusion because I know it's sure to spark insulin levels in the Loons and send Doritos flying off shelves. Steve Perry was a paid member during the Augeri years. Because of that, he was paid by the fans. As a check-receiving member of the band, paid by the fans, he has a responsibility to know what is going on within an entity that he chose to extort from. Hiring scumbag lawyers to shoe horn your way into a band that you can no longer sing for has consequences, Nostrildamus. Welcome to Tapegate, Elvis.

#4 Part true and part fiction. Perry was fired because he quit ... if that makes sense! I'll take the band's side on that, as the decade+ since Perry legally exited the band has yielded a grand total of zero new music from him.

The Augeri debacle was, sans Nostrildamus' exploits, the band's low point from a professional and moral aspect. They shouldn't have played semi-live shows, they shouldn't have carried on from year to year with a crippled singer and Steve Augeri should been let go or stepped down. Management failed, the band as a whole failed, individual members failed, and fans, the vast majority of whom don't even realize it, didn't see what they paid to see ... a live singer.

The decision to suddenly end the farce that the Soto-led Journey had become was handled in a "tit for tat" manner, and probably shouldn't have been. After many weeks of watching internal band news splashed on to this website, a new legion of backstage hanger's on at shows from coast to coast, interrupted dinners, and cocktail and romance rumors hinted at in veiled posts, Baritone Journey was no more. Firing the guy and telling him you think he's a mediocre singer and untrustworthy, big-mouthed slug would have been much easier. But I totally understand why it was done the way it was done. But that doesn't make it right, professionally.


Lastly, my final sentence was pure hyperbole. If one or more here choose to run with it in some sort of orgical Peter Sellers or Inspector Gadget "Gotcha!" moment, more power to them. I think that's great.

[stevew2]

I'll answer your last question.


1) It was a job quickly coming to an end. Grab all you can WHILE you can.
2) I'm sure he was MORE than pressured into doing what he did.
3) If the founding member and the band's transgender keyboardist didn't care about the "legacy" or the possibility of being exposed, why should a singer that enjoyed zero commercial success? It's unfathomable to think that Augeri came up with this idea and talked mangement and Schon-Friga into it. My guess is Augeri was the last to be told of what was GOING to happen.
4) I've noticed a pattern devoloping over the last 20 years. Perry-fired. Augeri-forced to walk the plank and then discarded. Soto-lauded, promised, used, knifed and tossed to the side of the road. These guys are simply not capable of making decisions that end with any sort of class. While I DON'T disagree with all of their decisions, I certainly disagree with the manner they they were handled. These guys are the Al-Qaeda of the music business.

That was an appropriate post, at the time. It was emotional, angry, part factual and part fiction. I have never hidden my frustration(s) with the semi-live concerts. Let's explore a bit, using hindsight:

#1 True. The gravy train was nearing the finish line. Steve Augeri was hired to sell records, win over fans and sing the old songs. He failed miserably on the first part, did an adequate job with the second part and started out doing well with the last part. Unfortunately, he ended his tenure in Journey with little class or integrity.

#2 True. Without question, Steve Augeri didn't wield any power in Journey. I'm quite confident that the idea wasn't his, that he didn't like it, that he fought against it and that he ultimately, and unfortunately, caved. Steve Augeri is an incredibly intelligent man but he has no excuse for agreeing to do what he did.

#3 True. It still, to this day, boggles my mind that they chose to take this path. And, while it doesn't anger me nearly as much as it used to, it remains a concept that I'd like to try to understand. I just don't get their logic, as far as risk/reward goes. Disrespecting artistry, professionalism and past and present bandmates falls mainly on 3 members ... Steve Augeri, Neal Schon and Jon Cain (I'm assuming Ross has very little say-so in the band). However, the umbrella of guilt also includes, but is not limited to, Ross Valory, Deen Castronovo, Irving Azoff, John Baruck, Kevin Elson and Steve Perry.

I'll address the Steve Perry inclusion because I know it's sure to spark insulin levels in the Loons and send Doritos flying off shelves. Steve Perry was a paid member during the Augeri years. Because of that, he was paid by the fans. As a check-receiving member of the band, paid by the fans, he has a responsibility to know what is going on within an entity that he chose to extort from. Hiring scumbag lawyers to shoe horn your way into a band that you can no longer sing for has consequences, Nostrildamus. Welcome to Tapegate, Elvis.

#4 Part true and part fiction. Perry was fired because he quit ... if that makes sense! I'll take the band's side on that, as the decade+ since Perry legally exited the band has yielded a grand total of zero new music from him.

The Augeri debacle was, sans Nostrildamus' exploits, the band's low point from a professional and moral aspect. They shouldn't have played semi-live shows, they shouldn't have carried on from year to year with a crippled singer and Steve Augeri should been let go or stepped down. Management failed, the band as a whole failed, individual members failed, and fans, the vast majority of whom don't even realize it, didn't see what they paid to see ... a live singer.

The decision to suddenly end the farce that the Soto-led Journey had become was handled in a "tit for tat" manner, and probably shouldn't have been. After many weeks of watching internal band news splashed on to this website, a new legion of backstage hanger's on at shows from coast to coast, interrupted dinners, and cocktail and romance rumors hinted at in veiled posts, Baritone Journey was no more. Firing the guy and telling him you think he's a mediocre singer and untrustworthy, big-mouthed slug would have been much easier. But I totally understand why it was done the way it was done. But that doesn't make it right, professionally.


Lastly, my final sentence was pure hyperbole. If one or more here choose to run with it in some sort of orgical Peter Sellers or Inspector Gadget "Gotcha!" moment, more power to them. I think that's great.

great post that should be the last chapter in the peice of shit book that has been wrote about Journey. they should put this picts on the cover

[Don]

I'll answer your last question.


1) It was a job quickly coming to an end. Grab all you can WHILE you can.
2) I'm sure he was MORE than pressured into doing what he did.
3) If the founding member and the band's transgender keyboardist didn't care about the "legacy" or the possibility of being exposed, why should a singer that enjoyed zero commercial success? It's unfathomable to think that Augeri came up with this idea and talked mangement and Schon-Friga into it. My guess is Augeri was the last to be told of what was GOING to happen.
4) I've noticed a pattern devoloping over the last 20 years. Perry-fired. Augeri-forced to walk the plank and then discarded. Soto-lauded, promised, used, knifed and tossed to the side of the road. These guys are simply not capable of making decisions that end with any sort of class. While I DON'T disagree with all of their decisions, I certainly disagree with the manner they they were handled. These guys are the Al-Qaeda of the music business.

That was an appropriate post, at the time. It was emotional, angry, part factual and part fiction. I have never hidden my frustration(s) with the semi-live concerts. Let's explore a bit, using hindsight:

#1 True. The gravy train was nearing the finish line. Steve Augeri was hired to sell records, win over fans and sing the old songs. He failed miserably on the first part, did an adequate job with the second part and started out doing well with the last part. Unfortunately, he ended his tenure in Journey with little class or integrity.

#2 True. Without question, Steve Augeri didn't wield any power in Journey. I'm quite confident that the idea wasn't his, that he didn't like it, that he fought against it and that he ultimately, and unfortunately, caved. Steve Augeri is an incredibly intelligent man but he has no excuse for agreeing to do what he did.

#3 True. It still, to this day, boggles my mind that they chose to take this path. And, while it doesn't anger me nearly as much as it used to, it remains a concept that I'd like to try to understand. I just don't get their logic, as far as risk/reward goes. Disrespecting artistry, professionalism and past and present bandmates falls mainly on 3 members ... Steve Augeri, Neal Schon and Jon Cain (I'm assuming Ross has very little say-so in the band). However, the umbrella of guilt also includes, but is not limited to, Ross Valory, Deen Castronovo, Irving Azoff, John Baruck, Kevin Elson and Steve Perry.

I'll address the Steve Perry inclusion because I know it's sure to spark insulin levels in the Loons and send Doritos flying off shelves. Steve Perry was a paid member during the Augeri years. Because of that, he was paid by the fans. As a check-receiving member of the band, paid by the fans, he has a responsibility to know what is going on within an entity that he chose to extort from. Hiring scumbag lawyers to shoe horn your way into a band that you can no longer sing for has consequences, Nostrildamus. Welcome to Tapegate, Elvis.

#4 Part true and part fiction. Perry was fired because he quit ... if that makes sense! I'll take the band's side on that, as the decade+ since Perry legally exited the band has yielded a grand total of zero new music from him.

The Augeri debacle was, sans Nostrildamus' exploits, the band's low point from a professional and moral aspect. They shouldn't have played semi-live shows, they shouldn't have carried on from year to year with a crippled singer and Steve Augeri should been let go or stepped down. Management failed, the band as a whole failed, individual members failed, and fans, the vast majority of whom don't even realize it, didn't see what they paid to see ... a live singer.

The decision to suddenly end the farce that the Soto-led Journey had become was handled in a "tit for tat" manner, and probably shouldn't have been. After many weeks of watching internal band news splashed on to this website, a new legion of backstage hanger's on at shows from coast to coast, interrupted dinners, and cocktail and romance rumors hinted at in veiled posts, Baritone Journey was no more. Firing the guy and telling him you think he's a mediocre singer and untrustworthy, big-mouthed slug would have been much easier. But I totally understand why it was done the way it was done. But that doesn't make it right, professionally.


Lastly, my final sentence was pure hyperbole. If one or more here choose to run with it in some sort of orgical Peter Sellers or Inspector Gadget "Gotcha!" moment, more power to them. I think that's great.

An even better summarization.

[annie89509]

Trying to tie Tapegate debacle laying guilt on SP's feet is a stretch...but considering the hypothesis coming from SJ, I shouldn't be surprised. Any thoughts Dan ever had regarding SP's involvement in anything relating to Journey is pretty skewed.

I don't doubt SP knew/found out about the tapes used in concert...as he is well connected (I'm sure). But what was he supposed to do about it...other than distance himself as far away as possible? As he has been quoted many times during the years..."as of Feb 1998, I am no longer a member of Journey....whatever they do now is none of my business." Wow, if we interject Tapegate into the context of these earlier statements from Steve (before using tapes was ever suspected), it takes on a whole 'nother meaning.

[marco17]

Trying to tie Tapegate debacle laying guilt on SP's feet is a stretch...but considering the hypothesis coming from SJ, I shouldn't be surprised. Any thoughts Dan ever had regarding SP's involvement in anything relating to Journey is pretty skewed.

I don't doubt SP knew/found out about the tapes used in concert...as he is well connected (I'm sure). But what was he supposed to do about it...other than distance himself as far away as possible? As he has been quoted many times during the years..."as of Feb 1998, I am no longer a member of Journey....whatever they do now is none of my business." Wow, if we interject Tapegate into the context of these earlier statements from Steve (before using tapes was ever suspected), it takes on a whole 'nother meaning.

Possibly, but he makes a helluva lot of money off of what is "None of his business."

[Jana]

I'll answer your last question.


1) It was a job quickly coming to an end. Grab all you can WHILE you can.
2) I'm sure he was MORE than pressured into doing what he did.
3) If the founding member and the band's transgender keyboardist didn't care about the "legacy" or the possibility of being exposed, why should a singer that enjoyed zero commercial success? It's unfathomable to think that Augeri came up with this idea and talked mangement and Schon-Friga into it. My guess is Augeri was the last to be told of what was GOING to happen.
4) I've noticed a pattern devoloping over the last 20 years. Perry-fired. Augeri-forced to walk the plank and then discarded. Soto-lauded, promised, used, knifed and tossed to the side of the road. These guys are simply not capable of making decisions that end with any sort of class. While I DON'T disagree with all of their decisions, I certainly disagree with the manner they they were handled. These guys are the Al-Qaeda of the music business.

That was an appropriate post, at the time. It was emotional, angry, part factual and part fiction. I have never hidden my frustration(s) with the semi-live concerts. Let's explore a bit, using hindsight:

#1 True. The gravy train was nearing the finish line. Steve Augeri was hired to sell records, win over fans and sing the old songs. He failed miserably on the first part, did an adequate job with the second part and started out doing well with the last part. Unfortunately, he ended his tenure in Journey with little class or integrity.

#2 True. Without question, Steve Augeri didn't wield any power in Journey. I'm quite confident that the idea wasn't his, that he didn't like it, that he fought against it and that he ultimately, and unfortunately, caved. Steve Augeri is an incredibly intelligent man but he has no excuse for agreeing to do what he did.

#3 True. It still, to this day, boggles my mind that they chose to take this path. And, while it doesn't anger me nearly as much as it used to, it remains a concept that I'd like to try to understand. I just don't get their logic, as far as risk/reward goes. Disrespecting artistry, professionalism and past and present bandmates falls mainly on 3 members ... Steve Augeri, Neal Schon and Jon Cain (I'm assuming Ross has very little say-so in the band). However, the umbrella of guilt also includes, but is not limited to, Ross Valory, Deen Castronovo, Irving Azoff, John Baruck, Kevin Elson and Steve Perry.

I'll address the Steve Perry inclusion because I know it's sure to spark insulin levels in the Loons and send Doritos flying off shelves. Steve Perry was a paid member during the Augeri years. Because of that, he was paid by the fans. As a check-receiving member of the band, paid by the fans, he has a responsibility to know what is going on within an entity that he chose to extort from. Hiring scumbag lawyers to shoe horn your way into a band that you can no longer sing for has consequences, Nostrildamus. Welcome to Tapegate, Elvis.

#4 Part true and part fiction. Perry was fired because he quit ... if that makes sense! I'll take the band's side on that, as the decade+ since Perry legally exited the band has yielded a grand total of zero new music from him.

The Augeri debacle was, sans Nostrildamus' exploits, the band's low point from a professional and moral aspect. They shouldn't have played semi-live shows, they shouldn't have carried on from year to year with a crippled singer and Steve Augeri should been let go or stepped down. Management failed, the band as a whole failed, individual members failed, and fans, the vast majority of whom don't even realize it, didn't see what they paid to see ... a live singer.

The decision to suddenly end the farce that the Soto-led Journey had become was handled in a "tit for tat" manner, and probably shouldn't have been. After many weeks of watching internal band news splashed on to this website, a new legion of backstage hanger's on at shows from coast to coast, interrupted dinners, and cocktail and romance rumors hinted at in veiled posts, Baritone Journey was no more. Firing the guy and telling him you think he's a mediocre singer and untrustworthy, big-mouthed slug would have been much easier. But I totally understand why it was done the way it was done. But that doesn't make it right, professionally.


Lastly, my final sentence was pure hyperbole. If one or more here choose to run with it in some sort of orgical Peter Sellers or Inspector Gadget "Gotcha!" moment, more power to them. I think that's great.

'interrupted dinners, and cocktail and romance rumors hinted at in veiled posts," What does this mean? I'm in the dark on this. Before my time here.

[portland]

I'll answer your last question.


1) It was a job quickly coming to an end. Grab all you can WHILE you can.
2) I'm sure he was MORE than pressured into doing what he did.
3) If the founding member and the band's transgender keyboardist didn't care about the "legacy" or the possibility of being exposed, why should a singer that enjoyed zero commercial success? It's unfathomable to think that Augeri came up with this idea and talked mangement and Schon-Friga into it. My guess is Augeri was the last to be told of what was GOING to happen.
4) I've noticed a pattern devoloping over the last 20 years. Perry-fired. Augeri-forced to walk the plank and then discarded. Soto-lauded, promised, used, knifed and tossed to the side of the road. These guys are simply not capable of making decisions that end with any sort of class. While I DON'T disagree with all of their decisions, I certainly disagree with the manner they they were handled. These guys are the Al-Qaeda of the music business.

That was an appropriate post, at the time. It was emotional, angry, part factual and part fiction. I have never hidden my frustration(s) with the semi-live concerts. Let's explore a bit, using hindsight:

#1 True. The gravy train was nearing the finish line. Steve Augeri was hired to sell records, win over fans and sing the old songs. He failed miserably on the first part, did an adequate job with the second part and started out doing well with the last part. Unfortunately, he ended his tenure in Journey with little class or integrity.

#2 True. Without question, Steve Augeri didn't wield any power in Journey. I'm quite confident that the idea wasn't his, that he didn't like it, that he fought against it and that he ultimately, and unfortunately, caved. Steve Augeri is an incredibly intelligent man but he has no excuse for agreeing to do what he did.

#3 True. It still, to this day, boggles my mind that they chose to take this path. And, while it doesn't anger me nearly as much as it used to, it remains a concept that I'd like to try to understand. I just don't get their logic, as far as risk/reward goes. Disrespecting artistry, professionalism and past and present bandmates falls mainly on 3 members ... Steve Augeri, Neal Schon and Jon Cain (I'm assuming Ross has very little say-so in the band). However, the umbrella of guilt also includes, but is not limited to, Ross Valory, Deen Castronovo, Irving Azoff, John Baruck, Kevin Elson and Steve Perry.

I'll address the Steve Perry inclusion because I know it's sure to spark insulin levels in the Loons and send Doritos flying off shelves. Steve Perry was a paid member during the Augeri years. Because of that, he was paid by the fans. As a check-receiving member of the band, paid by the fans, he has a responsibility to know what is going on within an entity that he chose to extort from. Hiring scumbag lawyers to shoe horn your way into a band that you can no longer sing for has consequences, Nostrildamus. Welcome to Tapegate, Elvis.

#4 Part true and part fiction. Perry was fired because he quit ... if that makes sense! I'll take the band's side on that, as the decade+ since Perry legally exited the band has yielded a grand total of zero new music from him.

The Augeri debacle was, sans Nostrildamus' exploits, the band's low point from a professional and moral aspect. They shouldn't have played semi-live shows, they shouldn't have carried on from year to year with a crippled singer and Steve Augeri should been let go or stepped down. Management failed, the band as a whole failed, individual members failed, and fans, the vast majority of whom don't even realize it, didn't see what they paid to see ... a live singer.

The decision to suddenly end the farce that the Soto-led Journey had become was handled in a "tit for tat" manner, and probably shouldn't have been. After many weeks of watching internal band news splashed on to this website, a new legion of backstage hanger's on at shows from coast to coast, interrupted dinners, and cocktail and romance rumors hinted at in veiled posts, Baritone Journey was no more. Firing the guy and telling him you think he's a mediocre singer and untrustworthy, big-mouthed slug would have been much easier. But I totally understand why it was done the way it was done. But that doesn't make it right, professionally.


Lastly, my final sentence was pure hyperbole. If one or more here choose to run with it in some sort of orgical Peter Sellers or Inspector Gadget "Gotcha!" moment, more power to them. I think that's great.

'interrupted dinners, and cocktail and romance rumors hinted at in veiled posts," What does this mean? I'm in the dark on this. Before my time here.

Me too??? Sounds like fun.....it seems there was a lot to discuss in those days!

[Saint John]

Trying to tie Tapegate debacle laying guilt on SP's feet is a stretch...but considering the hypothesis coming from SJ, I shouldn't be surprised. Any thoughts Dan ever had regarding SP's involvement in anything relating to Journey is pretty skewed.

I don't doubt SP knew/found out about the tapes used in concert...as he is well connected (I'm sure). But what was he supposed to do about it...other than distance himself as far away as possible? As he has been quoted many times during the years..."as of Feb 1998, I am no longer a member of Journey....whatever they do now is none of my business." Wow, if we interject Tapegate into the context of these earlier statements from Steve (before using tapes was ever suspected), it takes on a whole 'nother meaning.

It's a pretty well known fact that Steve Perry was paid as the 6th member of Journey during the entire Augeri era. Herbie's said it and band members have referred to it. I can't see how you could make something like that up or why you'd want to. Because of that, he was 1/6 of the Journey cash receiving team that bamboozled fans, whether you like it or not. I'm not inferring in any way that he knew what was going on, nor do I care. He wanted to distance himself in every way possible from the rest of the band and from work/singing ... until it was time to pass out checks. Checks in your hand make you part of the band.

[Art Vandelay]

Trying to tie Tapegate debacle laying guilt on SP's feet is a stretch...but considering the hypothesis coming from SJ, I shouldn't be surprised. Any thoughts Dan ever had regarding SP's involvement in anything relating to Journey is pretty skewed.

I don't doubt SP knew/found out about the tapes used in concert...as he is well connected (I'm sure). But what was he supposed to do about it...other than distance himself as far away as possible? As he has been quoted many times during the years..."as of Feb 1998, I am no longer a member of Journey....whatever they do now is none of my business." Wow, if we interject Tapegate into the context of these earlier statements from Steve (before using tapes was ever suspected), it takes on a whole 'nother meaning.

It's a pretty well known fact that Steve Perry was paid as the 6th member of Journey during the entire Augeri era. Herbie's said it and band members have referred to it. I can't see how you could make something like that up or why you'd want to. Because of that, he was 1/6 of the Journey cash receiving team that bamboozled fans, whether you like it or not. I'm not inferring in any way that he knew what was going on, nor do I care. He wanted to distance himself in every way possible from the rest of the band and from work/singing ... until it was time to pass out checks. Checks in your hand make you part of the band.

Thanks for clearing it all up, Johnny Cochran.

[Saint John]

Trying to tie Tapegate debacle laying guilt on SP's feet is a stretch...but considering the hypothesis coming from SJ, I shouldn't be surprised. Any thoughts Dan ever had regarding SP's involvement in anything relating to Journey is pretty skewed.

I don't doubt SP knew/found out about the tapes used in concert...as he is well connected (I'm sure). But what was he supposed to do about it...other than distance himself as far away as possible? As he has been quoted many times during the years..."as of Feb 1998, I am no longer a member of Journey....whatever they do now is none of my business." Wow, if we interject Tapegate into the context of these earlier statements from Steve (before using tapes was ever suspected), it takes on a whole 'nother meaning.

It's a pretty well known fact that Steve Perry was paid as the 6th member of Journey during the entire Augeri era. Herbie's said it and band members have referred to it. I can't see how you could make something like that up or why you'd want to. Because of that, he was 1/6 of the Journey cash receiving team that bamboozled fans, whether you like it or not. I'm not inferring in any way that he knew what was going on, nor do I care. He wanted to distance himself in every way possible from the rest of the band and from work/singing ... until it was time to pass out checks. Checks in your hand make you part of the band.

Thanks for clearing it all up, Johnny Cochran.

I was wondering if anyone would catch that! Nice work, Philip Marlowe.

[Art Vandelay]

Trying to tie Tapegate debacle laying guilt on SP's feet is a stretch...but considering the hypothesis coming from SJ, I shouldn't be surprised. Any thoughts Dan ever had regarding SP's involvement in anything relating to Journey is pretty skewed.

I don't doubt SP knew/found out about the tapes used in concert...as he is well connected (I'm sure). But what was he supposed to do about it...other than distance himself as far away as possible? As he has been quoted many times during the years..."as of Feb 1998, I am no longer a member of Journey....whatever they do now is none of my business." Wow, if we interject Tapegate into the context of these earlier statements from Steve (before using tapes was ever suspected), it takes on a whole 'nother meaning.

It's a pretty well known fact that Steve Perry was paid as the 6th member of Journey during the entire Augeri era. Herbie's said it and band members have referred to it. I can't see how you could make something like that up or why you'd want to. Because of that, he was 1/6 of the Journey cash receiving team that bamboozled fans, whether you like it or not. I'm not inferring in any way that he knew what was going on, nor do I care. He wanted to distance himself in every way possible from the rest of the band and from work/singing ... until it was time to pass out checks. Checks in your hand make you part of the band.

Thanks for clearing it all up, Johnny Cochran.

I was wondering if anyone would catch that! Nice work, Philip Marlowe.

Philip Marlowe! Wow, that's digging way back...nice!

[Michigan Girl]

lol ...Doritos!! This loon's a Frito Bandito ...

[Don]

lol ...Doritos!! This loon's a Tito Bandito ...

I fucking knew it!

[Saint John]

lol ...Doritos!! This loon's a Tito Bandito ...

I fucking knew it!

[Michigan Girl]

lol ...Doritos!! This loon's a Tito Bandito ...

I fucking knew it!

lol, tito~pie!!