Herbie Herbert (Credible or not)

[GollyWally]

Sorry if this topic has already been hashed over, but yesterday I finally read the full transcript of some interview Herbie Herbert did fairly recently, but apparently before Tapegate and JSS entered the picture. Another poster had a link to the interview in another thread.

Anyway, Herbie completely trashes the band members, using the most vitriolic language imaginable to describe them, both professionally and personally. He was particulary hard on Perry and Cain, but threw plenty of shots at Schon, also. His rants seemed so over-the-top that I wonder how much of it to take seriously. Is he just angry at being dumped by the band? Granted, we've learned a lot about Cain and Schon's character by how they treated Augeri and JSS, as well as fans, but Herbie's comments are SO strong. He speaks about Perry like he thinks the man is the AntiChrist or something, and, IMO, Perry is the ONLY one of late, (Augeri and JSS aside) who has demonstrated any moral character and class.

Just curious what some of you with more insight think. Thanks.

[conversationpc]

Yeah, I've read that interview and I'm not sure how much to believe, either. He sure seems jaded about something and it taints what he says, in my opinion. I'd have to read it again but, regardless of how he comes across, it seems like he was right on a lot of stuff anyway.

[squirt1]

Is this that old 4 pt interview from years ago ? If this is new then he has spent most of his life very bitter.

[GollyWally]

He reference the 81 Houston DVD, which he says HE did all the work on and that Perry basically had NOTHING to do, as it was already re-mixed, etc. So it can't be more than a year or two old then, right?

[MidNightTrain]

He reference the 81 Houston DVD, which he says HE did all the work on and that Perry basically had NOTHING to do, as it was already re-mixed, etc. So it can't be more than a year or two old then, right?

I think this is the article that you are referring too (April 2006):

http://www.classicrockrevisited.com/Int ... bert06.htm

[Eric]

He reference the 81 Houston DVD, which he says HE did all the work on and that Perry basically had NOTHING to do, as it was already re-mixed, etc. So it can't be more than a year or two old then, right?

I think this is the article that you are referring too (April 2006):

http://www.classicrockrevisited.com/Int ... bert06.htm

I believe him.....

[GollyWally]

He reference the 81 Houston DVD, which he says HE did all the work on and that Perry basically had NOTHING to do, as it was already re-mixed, etc. So it can't be more than a year or two old then, right?

I think this is the article that you are referring too (April 2006):

http://www.classicrockrevisited.com/Int ... bert06.htm

Thanks, MidNightTrain. That's the one. Thanks for posting it!

[brywool]

Sorry if this topic has already been hashed over, but yesterday I finally read the full transcript of some interview Herbie Herbert did fairly recently, but apparently before Tapegate and JSS entered the picture. Another poster had a link to the interview in another thread.

Anyway, Herbie completely trashes the band members, using the most vitriolic language imaginable to describe them, both professionally and personally. He was particulary hard on Perry and Cain, but threw plenty of shots at Schon, also. His rants seemed so over-the-top that I wonder how much of it to take seriously. Is he just angry at being dumped by the band? Granted, we've learned a lot about Cain and Schon's character by how they treated Augeri and JSS, as well as fans, but Herbie's comments are SO strong. He speaks about Perry like he thinks the man is the AntiChrist or something, and, IMO, Perry is the ONLY one of late, (Augeri and JSS aside) who has demonstrated any moral character and class.

Just curious what some of you with more insight think. Thanks.

I think Herbie's the most credible out of ALL of them.

[conversationpc]

I like this comment about when he picked up Jonathan at the airport to take him to his first practice with the guys...

This guy is never going to be a good guy. He’s going to be a guy that if you make him rich, holy shit. They’ve even written about this in the Wall Street Journal. I read an article called “Situational Narcissism.” It said that when sudden fame and fortune come to people, they could develop narcissistic personality disorder. Really? What the fuck? Coming from the Wall Street Journal, I have a higher expectation -- let’s get real. This disease is so fuckin’ pervasive that for you to be writing about it at this late date, shame on you people. Their IQ increases geometrically, their fuckin’ penis dimension increases, everything.

[lidobar]

i wholeheartedly believe him and really enjoyed the insider's perspective. a lot of it must be true since perry has so much to hide by requiring gag orders on the all the band members. i'm sure there's lots of skeletons in perry's closet.

one can totally believe the power struggles between perry and herbert just by the reading interviews of other band members. perry was pretty much calling all the shots by ror and the demise of the band as a real cohesive unit started with the end of frontiers tour. it was definitely perry's idea to ax valory and smith during ror and he even admits it in the vh1 behind the music interview. to be fair to perry the reason for most band breakups is a few bandmembers want to have complete creative control over the music and as a solo artist you don't have to compromise. he didn't want to be managed any longer.

herbert was so right when he said that its better not to know how the band members really are because fans think that they're better people than they really are.

regardless of if they were all a bunch of sad losers, i still enjoy their music. they made great rocking tunes, and like herbert said they had limitless creativity but even if they are impaired intellectually i would still go out and buy whatever new album they put out and tickets to their concerts because they made original and classic music.

[conversationpc]

Another interesting quote...

Then Perry contacted Cain and they met. After they met, they contacted Neal with the notion that it was so important to re-unite with Steve Perry and continue Journey with him, which makes complete and total sense. Everybody wants all the original players. There was this one little snafu. Steve Perry couldn’t sing. I said “Do you remember when Bill Graham died and the band came back together and performed in Golden Gate Park?” Jon and Neal were there and when Perry showed up he said “Herbie, what songs are we going to play?” I said, “I don’t know, maybe ‘Lights’ or ‘Don’t Stop Believin.’” I rattled off three or four choices and he says, “You get the lyrics together because I certainly don’t remember the words. You write them down and tell Jon and Neal to take them down two steps.” That means if you’re in the key of ‘E’ you have to go down to ‘A.’

Taking a song down two whole steps is a monumental thing. It really demonstrated how good Jon and Neal are as musicians, that they were able to pull it off without any practice or rehearsal. With over half a million people in the park, surely people tape-recorded that performance and you can hear that it’s two whole steps down. Even then Perry could not hold his pitch and sing in tune; his voice was really rough. If he could, he would be Journey. He went out and did that solo tour to do Journey but he couldn’t. He kept postponing shows and ultimately he had to cancel the thing. He doesn’t have the health and he can’t sing anymore. He lost his talent. Think Karma.

I disagree that he can't sing anymore. A lot of the FTLOSM boots sound pretty good, though they were certainly tuned down/transposed to a lower key.

[lidobar]

I think this is the article that you are referring too (April 2006):

http://www.classicrockrevisited.com/Int ... bert06.htm

this is an even better interview here: http://members.cox.net/mrcarty/

[GollyWally]

I like this comment about when he picked up Jonathan at the airport to take him to his first practice with the guys...

This guy is never going to be a good guy. He’s going to be a guy that if you make him rich, holy shit. They’ve even written about this in the Wall Street Journal. I read an article called “Situational Narcissism.” It said that when sudden fame and fortune come to people, they could develop narcissistic personality disorder. Really? What the fuck? Coming from the Wall Street Journal, I have a higher expectation -- let’s get real. This disease is so fuckin’ pervasive that for you to be writing about it at this late date, shame on you people. Their IQ increases geometrically, their fuckin’ penis dimension increases, everything.

Yeah, that whole bit about how Jon climbed into car, fresh off the boat so to speak, with his keyboards, and blackmailed Herbie into getting his wife, Tane, a record deal! Good grief. If that story IS true--wow. What an asshole. Herbie probably SHOULD have thrown his keyboards out of the car and booted his ass out.

Herbie's comment are so acrimonious you just can't help but wonder if there's something else going on, particuarly since, I assume, his involvement with the band made him a very rich man.

[Playitloudforme]

I take Herbie's comments with a VERY LARGE grain of salt. There's a huge ego at work there, and he never fails to place himself on top of the heap. Some truths, some exaggerations. Bottom line... meh.

[Ms_M]

I take Herbie's comments with a VERY LARGE grain of salt. There's a huge ego at work there, and he never fails to place himself on top of the heap. Some truths, some exaggerations. Bottom line... meh.

What is the old saying? There are 3 sides to every story... Your side, my side, and the truth. In this case, I think there is the side of each of the members, Herbie's side, and THEN the truth.

[Playitloudforme]

I take Herbie's comments with a VERY LARGE grain of salt. There's a huge ego at work there, and he never fails to place himself on top of the heap. Some truths, some exaggerations. Bottom line... meh.

What is the old saying? There are 3 sides to every story... Your side, my side, and the truth. In this case, I think there is the side of each of the members, Herbie's side, and THEN the truth.

yup yup yup yup yup

[Lora]

He reference the 81 Houston DVD, which he says HE did all the work on and that Perry basically had NOTHING to do, as it was already re-mixed, etc. So it can't be more than a year or two old then, right?

Steve invited Cyndy & I to the studio a couple of times when he was working on the Houston 81 project, so Herbie is mistaken when he says SP did not re-master this project as we watched him do it. I love Herbie. He gave us our start and he was always very good to us. But he is making judgments and criticizing people on things that happened 20 years ago, and not for the people they are today. I am sorry that he is so bitter and I am also sorry that fans would take all his comments as gospel.

[Playitloudforme]

Thanks Lora.

[GollyWally]

Another interesting quote...

Then Perry contacted Cain and they met. After they met, they contacted Neal with the notion that it was so important to re-unite with Steve Perry and continue Journey with him, which makes complete and total sense. Everybody wants all the original players. There was this one little snafu. Steve Perry couldn’t sing. I said “Do you remember when Bill Graham died and the band came back together and performed in Golden Gate Park?” Jon and Neal were there and when Perry showed up he said “Herbie, what songs are we going to play?” I said, “I don’t know, maybe ‘Lights’ or ‘Don’t Stop Believin.’” I rattled off three or four choices and he says, “You get the lyrics together because I certainly don’t remember the words. You write them down and tell Jon and Neal to take them down two steps.” That means if you’re in the key of ‘E’ you have to go down to ‘A.’

Taking a song down two whole steps is a monumental thing. It really demonstrated how good Jon and Neal are as musicians, that they were able to pull it off without any practice or rehearsal. With over half a million people in the park, surely people tape-recorded that performance and you can hear that it’s two whole steps down. Even then Perry could not hold his pitch and sing in tune; his voice was really rough. If he could, he would be Journey. He went out and did that solo tour to do Journey but he couldn’t. He kept postponing shows and ultimately he had to cancel the thing. He doesn’t have the health and he can’t sing anymore. He lost his talent. Think Karma.

I disagree that he can't sing anymore. A lot of the FTLOSM boots sound pretty good, though they were certainly tuned down/transposed to a lower key.

I agree. There's a clip of the Bill Graham tribute on YouTube and, in all fairness, Perry sounds horrible, but I think his voice was just out of shape then. As you noted, he sang beautifully on the FTLOSM cd and on TBF. I was at the Atlanta show at the Fox Theatre for the FTLOSM tour and he sounded great, not Escape-era but damn good. At the time of Bill Graham's death in 91, however, he probably hadn't sang much since the Against the Wall project (87 or 88?).

[Ms_M]

He reference the 81 Houston DVD, which he says HE did all the work on and that Perry basically had NOTHING to do, as it was already re-mixed, etc. So it can't be more than a year or two old then, right?

Steve invited Cyndy & I to the studio a couple of times when he was working on the Houston 81 project, so Herbie is mistaken when he says SP did not re-master this project as we watched him do it. I love Herbie. He gave us our start and he was always very good to us. But he is making judgments and criticizing people on things that happened 20 years ago, and not for the people they are today. I am sorry that he is so bitter and I am also sorry that fans would take all his comments as gospel.

Lora, Thanks for your insight on this. I thought that as I read that 4 pt. interview with Herbie a few years ago. Just because things happened 20 years ago doesn't mean they would still be this way. Although with some recent actions, I am only left to wonder... Thanks again!!

[GollyWally]

He reference the 81 Houston DVD, which he says HE did all the work on and that Perry basically had NOTHING to do, as it was already re-mixed, etc. So it can't be more than a year or two old then, right?

Steve invited Cyndy & I to the studio a couple of times when he was working on the Houston 81 project, so Herbie is mistaken when he says SP did not re-master this project as we watched him do it. I love Herbie. He gave us our start and he was always very good to us. But he is making judgments and criticizing people on things that happened 20 years ago, and not for the people they are today. I am sorry that he is so bitter and I am also sorry that fans would take all his comments as gospel.

Lora, Thanks for your insight on this. I thought that as I read that 4 pt. interview with Herbie a few years ago. Just because things happened 20 years ago doesn't mean they would still be this way. Although with some recent actions, I am only left to wonder... Thanks again!!

Hi Lora. Thanks for the post. I didn't mean to imply that I believed Herbie. In fact, I was questioning him because he sounds SO acrimonious in the interview--very jaded. It's hard to believe someone when they sound THAT bitter, against everybody.

[Socratic Methodist]

Did he imply that SP snorted cocaine?

And I thought that thing around his neck was a musical note, given to him by his mother. I KNEW is was a tiny coke spoon!

[Món]

....You write them down and tell Jon and Neal to take them down two steps.” That means if you’re in the key of ‘E’ you have to go down to ‘A.’

Er... That's not totally accurate.

Taking E down two whole steps would mean they're lowering it down to C.

Dropping it to A would've meant 3 and a half steps.

VERY interesting read, tho.

[conversationpc]

....You write them down and tell Jon and Neal to take them down two steps.” That means if you’re in the key of ‘E’ you have to go down to ‘A.’

Er... That's not totally accurate.

Taking E down two whole steps would mean they're lowering it down to C.

Dropping it to A would've meant 3 and a half steps.

VERY interesting read, tho.

I don't think Herbie's a musician, is he? He was probably just illustrating off the top of his head, in my opinion.

[squirt1]

Wasn't Herbie in a failed band called Cyclops?

[Lora]

Hi Lora. Thanks for the post. I didn't mean to imply that I believed Herbie. In fact, I was questioning him because he sounds SO acrimonious in the interview--very jaded. It's hard to believe someone when they sound THAT bitter, against everybody.

I wasn't referring to you specifically GW. This topic has been brought up a few times and I have read many comments from fans who feel Herbie is the last word on the subject.

BTW, your posts are always very well thought out and interesting to read.

[Spike]

Wasn't Herbie in a failed band called Cyclops?

The band is Sy Klopps, and to call it "failed" is probably a bit harsh. Here's a short review of a Sy Klopps CD: http://www.rounderstore.com/category.asp?C=514

[GollyWally]

Hi Lora. Thanks for the post. I didn't mean to imply that I believed Herbie. In fact, I was questioning him because he sounds SO acrimonious in the interview--very jaded. It's hard to believe someone when they sound THAT bitter, against everybody.

I wasn't referring to you specifically GW. This topic has been brought up a few times and I have read many comments from fans who feel Herbie is the last word on the subject.

BTW, your posts are always very well thought out and interesting to read.

Thanks, Lora! Same to you, and I love your avatar. I used to have a big orange Tabby named, Sonny--a mischevious fellow with an affinity for Albacore tuna!

[Moon Beam]

I take Herbie's comments with a VERY LARGE grain of salt. There's a huge ego at work there, and he never fails to place himself on top of the heap. Some truths, some exaggerations.

I'm in complete agreement with this statement.

[jrnyjetster]

I'd love to hear Herbie's comments on the Augeri tapegate disaster and of course, the whole JSS fiasco.

I wonder if Herbie and Neal still talk on occassion?