Herbie Herbert (Credible or not)

[GollyWally]

I'd love to hear Herbie's comments on the Augeri tapegate disaster and of course, the whole JSS fiasco.

I wonder if Herbie and Neal still talk on occassion?

I would too. In light of his indignation toward the current band members, particularly Cain, I'm sure he's laughing his ass off at how they've utterly mismanaged the band since booting him.

[NealIsGod]

I'd love to hear Herbie's comments on the Augeri tapegate disaster and of course, the whole JSS fiasco.

I wonder if Herbie and Neal still talk on occassion?

I would too. In light of his indignation toward the current band members, particularly Cain, I'm sure he's laughing his ass off at how they've utterly mismanaged the band since booting him.

Yet here we are anyway.

[swataz]

I can't tell you how disturbing that interview was. That was an incredible amount of bile coming from HH.

I don't know anyone in the Journey world personally or otherwise, so while I won't take his words as gospel, but if even half of it is true..I don't know, it just shatters your image of these guys.

[GollyWally]

I can't tell you how disturbing that interview was. That was an incredible amount of bile coming from HH.

I don't know anyone in the Journey world personally or otherwise, so while I won't take his words as gospel, but if even half of it is true..I don't know, it just shatters your image of these guys.

Yeah, how about that bit about Neal and Jon laughing their asses off at Perry while he's in the recording booth singing his heart out on Open Arms?

If there's ANY truth in that, what a jerk Jon is, because HE wrote the song! In fact, I'd always heard that Cain tried to get the Babys to record it, but Jon Waite refused to sing it because he thought it was to "bubble gum." Then Perry buys into the song and Cain makes fun of him for giving it his all. Wow. I HOPE that story is not true.

[conversationpc]

If there's ANY truth in that, what a jerk Jon is, because HE wrote the song! In fact, I'd always heard that Cain tried to get the Babys to record it, but Jon Waite refused to sing it because he thought it was to "bubble gum." Then Perry buys into the song and Cain makes fun of him for giving it his all. Wow. I HOPE that story is not true.

If I recall correctly, I think Neal admitted to this and I believe it was also talked about in the VH1 BTM episode.

Anyway, by the recounting of the incident given here, it makes it seem like Jon was trying to kiss up to Neal by playing cool or something like that. That's what I got out of it anyway.

[GollyWally]

I can see that--Cain trying to grease the wheels on both sides, so to speak.
If it is true, how ironic because that song made those guys a ton of dough. It staye Number 2 on the Billboard chart for like 9 weeks or somthing, behind Centerfold, by The J. Geils Band, if I'm not mistaken.

I never cared too much for that song, a bit too cheesy for my taste. I like WYLAW MUCH better in the ballad category--a much more mature sound, and I love the strings.

[conversationpc]

I can see that--Cain trying to grease the wheels on both sides, so to speak.
If it is true, how ironic because that song made those guys a ton of dough. It staye Number 2 on the Billboard chart for like 9 weeks or somthing, behind Centerfold, by The J. Geils Band, if I'm not mistaken.

I never cared too much for that song, a bit too cheesy for my taste. I like WYLAW MUCH better in the ballad category--a much more mature sound, and I love the strings.

If it weren't for that song, we probably wouldn't be talking about Journey like we do today. Perry brought success to the band in '78 but Cain is just as responsible because of that song, in my opinion.

[swataz]

"...he is a real consummate piece of excrement. I haven’t seen the guy in years but he’s just a bad person. I wouldn’t piss down his throat if his heart were on fire. "

I mean...OUCH.

[Just_Plain_Eric]

I admit that I like hearing Herbie dish the dirt but I also am uncomfortable with the way he continues to bash everyone...I mean, have we ever heard him say anything GOOD about anyone...let me qualify that...have we ever heard him say anything good about anyone WITH ANY POWER in the band.

Tells you something about the man I think.

E

[slucero]

The only person in this thread who has had any direct involvement with the members of the band is Lora...
The topic of this thread... Herbie, had extensive interaction with the band.

Including Herbie, interaction with the band can be pretty much summed up in the following 3 levels:

1. None = Most all fans (this would include the one time meeting of the band or individual member)
2. Occasional = Lora
3. Daily = Herbie

Herbie might be a bit bitter, but he was way closer to the "source" than most any of us.... including Lora (no disrespect ma'am )

For fans who fall under the "None" category..... To simply presume that Herbie is "talking out of his ass" is to blatantly disregard Herbie's contribution to the band when he managed them, and the fact-based perspective he has of the members and events.

Of all 3 of the categories... Herbie had the most 1st hand interaction... and assuming no one can factually discredit Herbie (i.e.. prove he wasn't there)... this would make his "opinion" actually "knowledge".... because its factually based...

For those of us who fall into the "None" category... what we have are opinions, maybe somewhat "educated" but opinions none-the less.

Herbie's most credible cause he was there.

Lora has some credibilty.

The rest of us do not.

[conversationpc]

Herbie's most credible cause he was there.

Lora has some credibilty.

The rest of us do not.

True, for the most part but it's not hard to cast doubt on Herbie's over-the-top statements since he seems to be so bitter about SOMETHING. That kind of resentment often casts doubt on anyone who acts that way. Now, I do believe much of what he has to say just because of some of the things that have come to light over the years in regards to the band.

Another thing...I hate to keep being the forum whistle-blower on this stuff but the pic in your sig is too big. I wouldn't complain but it takes up too much of the screen even on on my wide-screen laptop.

[slucero]

No worries mate... I took it down.

Its easy to focus on the tone of the message/comment instead of the content... I really try to separate Herbies bitterness from his comments...

Just as other members of the band have the right to be bitter about things that went down that they didn't like... Herbie has the same right...

Perceived bitterness aside... they were "there" - I wasn't....

cheers.

[kgdjpubs]

I think there is some truth to the "three sides to every story" thing, but the one thing to keep in mind here is that Herbie Herbert is pure businessman. The fact that he was managing a rock band took a VERY distant second place to the fact that he was running a business. Talk to most people in the same kind of business he was in and you will likely see the same attitude.

The bitterness? no--but you will see the same attitude. He's just a bit more candid than most people are, for better or worse. Personally, I'd be rather annoyed to work my whole life to build something from the ground up into a multi-million dollar business, only to see one person systematically take it down to nothing--and then have them take it away from you. If you read it from that perspective, it reads a bit differently.

[lidobar]

I admit that I like hearing Herbie dish the dirt but I also am uncomfortable with the way he continues to bash everyone...I mean, have we ever heard him say anything GOOD about anyone...let me qualify that...have we ever heard him say anything good about anyone WITH ANY POWER in the band.

Tells you something about the man I think.

E

He speaks highly of Greg Rolie and Kevin Chalfant.

[lidobar]

"...he is a real consummate piece of excrement. I haven’t seen the guy in years but he’s just a bad person. I wouldn’t piss down his throat if his heart were on fire. "

I mean...OUCH.

ha ha ha, Herbie's line had me ROFLMAO He is one literary genius with his words. I expanded my vocab 10% reading the castles burning interview.

-member of the Herbie Appreciation Society

[Shadowsong]

He reference the 81 Houston DVD, which he says HE did all the work on and that Perry basically had NOTHING to do, as it was already re-mixed, etc. So it can't be more than a year or two old then, right?

Steve invited Cyndy & I to the studio a couple of times when he was working on the Houston 81 project, so Herbie is mistaken when he says SP did not re-master this project as we watched him do it. I love Herbie. He gave us our start and he was always very good to us. But he is making judgments and criticizing people on things that happened 20 years ago, and not for the people they are today. I am sorry that he is so bitter and I am also sorry that fans would take all his comments as gospel.

I think there is confusion bet the orig Houston 81 & the remastering
I have no doubts that Herbie had nothing to do with the recent remaster
As for the original I have no clue
All I can say in Steve Perry's defense
is that if you want to make a great omelet
You have to break a few eggs...

[*Laura]

As much as I like HH for his bluntness and obvious knowledge about the inside story of the band,the one thing that pisses me off is his lack of class.
Ok,I understand that his time with the band wasn't always rosy,but this constant bashing makes HIM look bad,not the ones he is badmouthing.
Maybe he would have more credibility if his delivery would be less gross.For me,he comes across as a bitter jealous individual.Hard to believe everything he says is true.

I wonder how did he feel when Steve Perry thanked him so nicely in the HWOF speech?That was a free lesson about class.Hope he learnt something from it.

[GollyWally]

As much as I like HH for his bluntness and obvious knowledge about the inside story of the band,the one thing that pisses me off is his lack of class.
Ok,I understand that his time with the band wasn't always rosy,but this constant bashing makes HIM look bad,not the ones he is badmouthing.
Maybe he would have more credibility if his delivery would be less gross.For me,he comes across as a bitter jealous individual.Hard to believe everything he says is true.

I wonder how did he feel when Steve Perry thanked him so nicely in the HWOF speech?That was a free lesson about class.Hope he learnt something from it.

Hi Laura. Good point. Could you remind me of the thank-you Steve gave from the HWOF speech? I've only see small clips from Steve's speech, never the whole thing or a transcript. Many thanks.

[Playitloudforme]

I wonder how did he feel when Steve Perry thanked him so nicely in the HWOF speech?That was a free lesson about class.Hope he learnt something from it.

100000% class too. One more reason why I respect that man so much.

[*Laura]

Hi Laura. Good point. Could you remind me of the thank-you Steve gave from the HWOF speech? I've only see small clips from Steve's speech, never the whole thing or a transcript. Many thanks.

Here you go,GW...This is the transcript.

STEVE PERRY: Thank you,thank you. I owe you all money...! I owe you all money alright?!
I'd like to, uh, I'd like to thank you all for coming today too and there's some
people I would really be remiss if I didn't thank that are responsible for this
and I really want to mention the unsung heroes that for the bulk of the time that
I was in the band, we had a road crew that just busted their a** every single
night, every night and they would... they would set up the show, we'd look good...
I guess we looked good (laughs)and then they would tear it down and they would
just roll to the next night so we could rock again, so they really
are the unsung heroes and they have a piece of this today and I'd like
to also thank the fan club that was majorly important in Journey in the beginning,
Fan Asylum, with Tim McQuaid as the owner, Lora Beard and Cyndy Poon...
Very instrumental people that you, most of you do know.

And there's one guy that, we had our ins and outs but, you know, who don't ...right?
But, this guy, if it wasn't for him I wouldn't have been in the band at all.
Uh, this guy did for us what we couldn't do for ourselves... He literally would
bring stages to us and light configurations and bigger sound systems and
"What do you think, what do you think?" ..The guys, we'd all throw this around and we'd
come up with ideas, and I just want you to know that for the bulk of the time
that I was in the band, if it wasn't for Herbie Herbert this wouldn't be
happening.

I had the most amazing pleasure to join a band that
was already in existence with some of the finest musicians that were ever going
on at that time. There was nobody better. Ansley Dunbar was playing drums when
I joined the band Ross Valory was playing bass, Greg Rollie was lead
singer, keyboard player and Neal Schon was Magic Fingers guitar, ya know, and
then it evolved and all of a sudden in came Steve Smith on drums extraordinare,
and Jonathan Cain, songwriter, singer, keyboardist, and Magic
Fingers, Neal Schon on guitar! (laughs) So, I must say that I've had, I had an
extraordinary experience being in the band. It's been the most wonderful thing
that ever happened to me and, um, and lastly, very lastly, I really mean this
from the bottom of my heart, you can have... you can have all the stuff that we
knew it took from management with a crew and the best players, but without you...
you don't have shit! (laughs)

Ok, so this star really belongs to you and I wanna thank you for making it happen. Thank you!

[larocque6689]

Basically Herbie Herbert took a protective interest in the band. From his point of view, this was his baby, and each of these members, with a couple of exceptions disappointed him. Jon Cain getting his wife a record contract soured him on him in a big way - he didn't get his "karmic comeback" until the divorce. But I think the reason he views Steve so badly is that Steve really put himself first and the band second. Steve chose not to tour in 1983/84 at a time when the band needed the revenue so Jon and Ross could recoup on their "investments". Ross went bankrupt and Jon nearly the same. When Steve was trying to hijack the followup album to Frontiers, not one of the rest of the band members had the backbone to stand up to him. Steve engineered the firing of Steve Smith and Ross Valory, with Herbie insisting that both members essentially be paid as if they were still members of the band. The rest of the band members came across as assholes, or selfish or stupid (as in the selling of the real estate investments), or being a disappointing "foster son" (Neal), and essentially not seeing the big picture as Herbie saw things, but Steve is another story entirely. I laughed at the remark on how Journey is still actually working for Steve (who is "richer than God") - they needed Steve's permission to put out the Arrival DVD, and how they still cut checks for him on each tour.

[Rick]

Basically Herbie Herbert took a protective interest in the band. From his point of view, this was his baby, and each of these members, with a couple of exceptions disappointed him. Jon Cain getting his wife a record contract soured him on him in a big way - he didn't get his "karmic comeback" until the divorce. But I think the reason he views Steve so badly is that Steve really put himself first and the band second. Steve chose not to tour in 1983/84 at a time when the band needed the revenue so Jon and Ross could recoup on their "investments". Ross went bankrupt and Jon nearly the same. When Steve was trying to hijack the followup album to Frontiers, not one of the rest of the band members had the backbone to stand up to him. Steve engineered the firing of Steve Smith and Ross Valory, with Herbie insisting that both members essentially be paid as if they were still members of the band. The rest of the band members came across as assholes, or selfish or stupid (as in the selling of the real estate investments), or being a disappointing "foster son" (Neal), and essentially not seeing the big picture as Herbie saw things, but Steve is another story entirely. I laughed at the remark on how Journey is still actually working for Steve (who is "richer than God") - they needed Steve's permission to put out the Arrival DVD, and how they still cut checks for him on each tour.

SP didn't want to tour after Escape because he knew his voice was in trouble. Everyone in the band, HH and Bill Graham needed him to continue and talked him into it. He did it for them, continued to hurt his voice, and became despondent because he was upset at ruining his voice for their financial gain. He didn't not talk to the band to preserve his voice, he did it because he felt like he was being used for their financial solvency. SP saved his pennies and the others should have done the same. Had that happened, Perry might still sound like he did then. It's no secret that Journey toured a schedule that no singer could endure.

[RPM]

"But I think the reason he views Steve so badly is that Steve really put himself first and the band second."

and recent events in last couple years dont show you why he needed to do that?"

"Steve chose not to tour in 1983/84 at a time when the band needed the revenue so Jon and Ross could recoup on their "investments". Ross went bankrupt and Jon nearly the same."

If they needed the revenue thats there own damn fault not perry's . there were/are idiots.

bottom line, Herbie as STEVE himself has said is responsible for many great things that have happened to
S.P. and Journey, Herbies bitterness relates to Steve requiring new management for the TBF project,
why he demanded that I dont know, but Herbies ridicule of S.P. is way over the top...

Ray

[Rick]

"But I think the reason he views Steve so badly is that Steve really put himself first and the band second."

and recent events in last couple years dont show you why he needed to do that?"

"Steve chose not to tour in 1983/84 at a time when the band needed the revenue so Jon and Ross could recoup on their "investments". Ross went bankrupt and Jon nearly the same."

If they needed the revenue thats there own damn fault not perry's . there were/are idiots.

bottom line, Herbie as STEVE himself has said is responsible for many great things that have happened to
S.P. and Journey, Herbies bitterness relates to Steve requiring new management for the TBR project,
why he demanded that I dont know, but Herbies ridicule of S.P. is way over the top...

Ray

Journey was a big cash cow in the early '80's and HH, admittedly was an unabashed capitalist. He didn't care what happened to SP's voice, he just wanted the money to keep rolling in. I'm sure Perry has a lot of resentment for that. They should have toured at a reasonable level to insure that Steve got proper vocal rest. They didn't do that, and I don't care what bootleg you listen to, Steve Perry gave it his all. He was a true showman.

[RPM]

Good points Rick, Herbie should have been locked up for the stupid amount of
shows Steve Had to sing without rest, no excuse for it. what an idiot. And S.A was
treated no better.

Ray

[Rick]

Good points Rick, Herbie should have been locked up for the stupid amount of
shows Steve Had to sing without rest, no excuse for it. what an idiot. And S.A was
treated no better.

Ray

I totally agree. JSS was also ousted in a very unprofessional manner. That after he saved the bands ass when Augeri couldn't handle the rigors anymore. What a total disgrace. It's all money to them, nothing else.

[ohsherrie]

I look at the things HH says about all the guys in much the same way I look at the really trashy tabloid journalism. In most cases when he describe incidents or situations he's probably starting from a seed of what is a truth from his perspective. Then uses his bitter resentment and anger exaggerates it into sensationalism.

As I said before about his rants, if you were to have each one of the members that were in Journey from Infinity thru TBF recount to the best of his ability all that happened in the band during his tenure, no two stories would be the same, but none of them would have lied from their own point of view. The way events and situations are recounted are naturally colored by the teller's own personal memories which are influenced by the way the teller felt about them at the time. The stronger the feelings, the bitterer or sweeter account.

[GollyWally]

Hi Laura. Good point. Could you remind me of the thank-you Steve gave from the HWOF speech? I've only see small clips from Steve's speech, never the whole thing or a transcript. Many thanks.

Here you go,GW...This is the transcript.

STEVE PERRY: Thank you,thank you. I owe you all money...! I owe you all money alright?!
I'd like to, uh, I'd like to thank you all for coming today too and there's some
people I would really be remiss if I didn't thank that are responsible for this
and I really want to mention the unsung heroes that for the bulk of the time that
I was in the band, we had a road crew that just busted their a** every single
night, every night and they would... they would set up the show, we'd look good...
I guess we looked good (laughs)and then they would tear it down and they would
just roll to the next night so we could rock again, so they really
are the unsung heroes and they have a piece of this today and I'd like
to also thank the fan club that was majorly important in Journey in the beginning,
Fan Asylum, with Tim McQuaid as the owner, Lora Beard and Cyndy Poon...
Very instrumental people that you, most of you do know.

And there's one guy that, we had our ins and outs but, you know, who don't ...right?
But, this guy, if it wasn't for him I wouldn't have been in the band at all.
Uh, this guy did for us what we couldn't do for ourselves... He literally would
bring stages to us and light configurations and bigger sound systems and
"What do you think, what do you think?" ..The guys, we'd all throw this around and we'd
come up with ideas, and I just want you to know that for the bulk of the time
that I was in the band, if it wasn't for Herbie Herbert this wouldn't be
happening.

I had the most amazing pleasure to join a band that
was already in existence with some of the finest musicians that were ever going
on at that time. There was nobody better. Ansley Dunbar was playing drums when
I joined the band Ross Valory was playing bass, Greg Rollie was lead
singer, keyboard player and Neal Schon was Magic Fingers guitar, ya know, and
then it evolved and all of a sudden in came Steve Smith on drums extraordinare,
and Jonathan Cain, songwriter, singer, keyboardist, and Magic
Fingers, Neal Schon on guitar! (laughs) So, I must say that I've had, I had an
extraordinary experience being in the band. It's been the most wonderful thing
that ever happened to me and, um, and lastly, very lastly, I really mean this
from the bottom of my heart, you can have... you can have all the stuff that we
knew it took from management with a crew and the best players, but without you...
you don't have shit! (laughs)

Ok, so this star really belongs to you and I wanna thank you for making it happen. Thank you!

Thanks, Laura! That's a great read. Yes, very classy of Steve.

[cookieduster]

Journey was a big cash cow in the early '80's and HH, admittedly was an unabashed capitalist. He didn't care what happened to SP's voice, he just wanted the money to keep rolling in. I'm sure Perry has a lot of resentment for that. They should have toured at a reasonable level to insure that Steve got proper vocal rest. They didn't do that, and I don't care what bootleg you listen to, Steve Perry gave it his all. He was a true showman.

Perfect post Rick, Herbie turned on Perry and I think the others followed his lead.

[*Laura]

Journey was a big cash cow in the early '80's and HH, admittedly was an unabashed capitalist. He didn't care what happened to SP's voice, he just wanted the money to keep rolling in. I'm sure Perry has a lot of resentment for that. They should have toured at a reasonable level to insure that Steve got proper vocal rest. They didn't do that, and I don't care what bootleg you listen to, Steve Perry gave it his all. He was a true showman.

100% agreed.