why steve perry will never rejoin journey

[Red13JoePa]

NOW u say it didn't imply that. Then u decide to say I go to amazing lengths to avoid admitting I'm wrong. Say that to the mirror.

That makes no sense.

I know Dave.

Sometimes when dealing w/ Rox you just have to quote Matt:

"Eh?"

[*Laura]

Abortion - what a delicate subject...Will always be.
At one point I had to produce a filmed documentary about an organization that takes care of women who've been raped and ended up pregnant.The psychological issues that those women had were tremendous.They were coming from different backgrounds,had different leves of education,but regardless,they all wanted to end the pregnancy.I have spoken to a few doctors that were working there and they've told me heartbreaking stories.Most of those women didn't wanted to keep a child that would have always reminded them of the trauma they went through.Some were terrified that the child could end up with genetical issues because it was the result of an incest.Others were too young and poor to be responsible,they had no family support and no job.

I was torn between my own beliefs...I do believe that abortion means to kill an innocent life...But then I was looking at those desperate depressed women,half destroyed physically and psychologically,and I thought that they have the RIGHT to choose.God will be the judge of that,not the society.

Well,these were the special cases...

IMO,everyone chooses to treat the abortion issue differently.I guess that's exactly the essence of the whole issue.Choice.
It's acceptable even from a religious point of view.You must all remember that the most important thing that God gave us humans was and is the FREE WILL,liberty of choice.No governement,no political group should dictate us (women) what to do.Abortion should be a choice.As a pregnant woman,you should be responsible and decide wheter you want or not to end a pregnancy.It depends on how you were brought up,or what are the circumstances that lead to that pregnancy.
Too complicated to elaborate,of course...

There's only one exception - when the medical issues would lead to the child's death.Or when the mother's life is in danger and doctors decide that the pregnancy should be terminated.

The other non-medical reasons like lack of birth control,rape,ignorance,poverty etc.,are situations in which a woman is choosing what to do with her pregnancy.This is where FREE WILL comes in.I believe that as a woman and as a human being,you decide if what you choose is right or wrong.

Responsability,circumstances,ethics,the Bible,ignorance and many other things can be factors that determine a woman's way of thinking when it comes to abortion.

[Socratic Methodist]

So my question is twofold. You are alive, aren't you glad your mother didn't have an abortion.

I'm not always sure I'm glad about that. I won't bore u w/the details. But u don't know everything about everyone.

Are you in favor of the death penalty, .

I'm not. Not based on "life" issues just that I don't think it does anything to enforce justice.

Let me ask u a question. If ur sister/wife/mother/daughter was raped & decided to abort, would u condemn her? Would u stop talking to her?

Condemn, no....but I would let it be known that I don't approve. I don't flip/flop because the issue hits 'close to home'.....

I wouldn't stop talking to her either....and that's the truth.

And I never claimed to know everything about everybody. And I don't know how ASKING a question portrays me as such.

I've talked to, and counseled upwards of 2,000 young women who have either HAD abortions, or were contemplating having one.

[conversationpc]

There's no point in arguing this w/u, Red, Raider & Socrates. U are like stubborn mules. U can't see any point of view but ur own EVER on ANY subject. What a way to live!

This could very well be the most comical post of the entire year.

[Rick]

NOW u say it didn't imply that. Then u decide to say I go to amazing lengths to avoid admitting I'm wrong. Say that to the mirror.

That makes no sense.

I know Dave.

Sometimes when dealing w/ Rox you just have to quote Matt:

"Eh?"

Everyone has an opinion and is entitled to it. That doesn't make them right or wrong. It doesn't make them good or bad, it just makes them human. I'm pro choice, that's the way I think it should be. I think there should be some tighter restrictions on it though. I think parents should definitely be notified if the person seeking the abortion is underage.

I think JR's situation should definitely be understood. But that's my opinion.

[conversationpc]

It's acceptable even from a religious point of view.You must all remember that the most important thing that God gave us humans was and is the FREE WILL,liberty of choice.No governement,no political group should dictate us (women) what to do.Abortion should be a choice.As a pregnant woman,you should be responsible and decide wheter you want or not to end a pregnancy.It depends on how you were brought up,or what are the circumstances that lead to that pregnancy.

I couldn't disagree more with that.

There's only one exception - when the medical issues would lead to the child's death.Or when the mother's life is in danger and doctors decide that the pregnancy should be terminated.

That's the only situation I believe abortion is acceptable.

[ohsherrie]

Not attacking YOU....

But the typical response is always about RAPE, and health....cause that's the ONLY excuse there is.....I wasn't referring to either instance, because those COMBINED are less than the ones who abort because of the 'inconvenience factor'...or 'birth control AFTER the fact'..

Also, how can you say the core issue isn't 'it's my body and I'll do with it what I want', when the name of the movement is the 'Pro-CHOICE' movement....the second word is CHOICE.....At lease the pro-life movement includes the word that it is most concerned with - LIFE.

If I was Pro-freedom....wouldn't you assume I was concerned with...ummm....say......FREEDOM?!
So if someone is Pro-CHOICE, I assume they are MORE concerned with the CHOICE, and not the LIFE....

I can't do anything about the name of the movement, but I can't think of any more appropriate way to say it either.

If there was some realistic way to separate the ones that are just using it as a way to get rid of an inconvenience, or after the fact birth control without there being any economic or health related factors involved, I'd be all for disallowing that. But there's not. So does that mean the ones who have legitimate reasons and their babies should suffer because of the nonchalant?

[Socratic Methodist]

Abortion - what a delicate subject...Will always be.
At one point I had to produce a filmed documentary about an organization that takes care of women who've been raped and ended up pregnant.The psychological issues that those women had were tremendous.They were coming from different backgrounds,had different leves of education,but regardless,they all wanted to end the pregnancy.I have spoken to a few doctors that were working there and they've told me heartbreaking stories.Most of those women didn't wanted to keep a child that would have always reminded them of the trauma they went through.Some were terrified that the child could end up with genetical issues because it was the result of an incest.Others were too young and poor to be responsible,they had no family support and no job.

I was torn between my own beliefs...I do believe that abortion means to kill an innocent life...But then I was looking at those desperate depressed women,half destroyed physically and psychologically,and I thought that they have the RIGHT to choose.God will be the judge of that,not the society.

Well,these were the special cases...

IMO,everyone chooses to treat the abortion issue differently.I guess that's exactly the essence of the whole issue.Choice.
It's acceptable even from a religious point of view.You must all remember that the most important thing that God gave us humans was and is the FREE WILL,liberty of choice.No governement,no political group should dictate us (women) what to do.Abortion should be a choice.As a pregnant woman,you should be responsible and decide wheter you want or not to end a pregnancy.It depends on how you were brought up,or what are the circumstances that lead to that pregnancy.Too complicated to elaborate,of course...

There's only one exception - when the medical issues would lead to the child's death.Or when the mother's life is in danger and doctors decide that the pregnancy should be terminated.

The other non-medical reasons like lack of birth control,rape,ignorance,poverty etc.,are situations in which a woman is choosing what to do with her pregnancy.This is where FREE WILL comes in.I believe that as a woman and as a human being,you decide if what you choose is right or wrong.

Responsability,circumstances,ethics,the Bible,ignorance and many other things can be factors that determine a woman's way of thinking when it comes to abortion.

I agree with this being true, but disagree that it should be used as an excuse....People in the southern states were BROUGHT UP to be racist. Using that theory it would be alright for them to be racist because they were brought up that way.

And making abortion legal is a slippery slope, leading to further questions. Should the government OR state have a say in anything relating to YOUR child. I mean women should be able to decide whats best in EVERY decision in their children's lives, right? I mean, if the government gives a woman the power to kill a child - shouldn't it give them the right to beat a child that is not aborted?

[conversationpc]

To mikemarrs...My apologies for assisting in the derailing of your thread.

I will be more than happy to discuss this in another thread but I think this should be the end of the discussion in this thread.

[*Laura]

It's acceptable even from a religious point of view.You must all remember that the most important thing that God gave us humans was and is the FREE WILL,liberty of choice.No governement,no political group should dictate us (women) what to do.Abortion should be a choice.As a pregnant woman,you should be responsible and decide wheter you want or not to end a pregnancy.It depends on how you were brought up,or what are the circumstances that lead to that pregnancy.

I couldn't disagree more with that.

Why?

[conversationpc]

It's acceptable even from a religious point of view.You must all remember that the most important thing that God gave us humans was and is the FREE WILL,liberty of choice.No governement,no political group should dictate us (women) what to do.Abortion should be a choice.As a pregnant woman,you should be responsible and decide wheter you want or not to end a pregnancy.It depends on how you were brought up,or what are the circumstances that lead to that pregnancy.

I couldn't disagree more with that.

Why?

Please see my above statement. I'm more than happy to discuss this in a new thread if you want to start one.

[Rick]

I agree with this being true, but disagree that it should be used as an excuse....People in the southern states were BROUGHT UP to be racist. Using that theory it would be alright for them to be racist because they were brought up that way.

And making abortion legal is a slippery slope, leading to further questions. Should the government OR state have a say in anything relating to YOUR child. I mean women should be able to decide whats best in EVERY decision in their children's lives, right? I mean, if the government gives a woman the power to kill a child - shouldn't it give them the right to beat a child that is not aborted?

I can't get into the way you fact things out in your mind. Not everything is black and white. Maybe you're just being the devils advocate, but there is a huge difference between removing a 4 - 8 week old embryo and beating a living, breathing & thinking child. You've got to see the difference.

[Red13JoePa]

NOW u say it didn't imply that. Then u decide to say I go to amazing lengths to avoid admitting I'm wrong. Say that to the mirror.

That makes no sense.

I know Dave.

Sometimes when dealing w/ Rox you just have to quote Matt:

"Eh?"

Everyone has an opinion and is entitled to it. That doesn't make them right or wrong. It doesn't make them good or bad, it just makes them human. I'm pro choice, that's the way I think it should be. I think there should be some tighter restrictions on it though. I think parents should definitely be notified if the person seeking the abortion is underage.

I think JR's situation should definitely be understood. But that's my opinion.

I can live with that Rick.

Because despite my individual stance there are good people on both sides of it.

[*Laura]

Abortion - what a delicate subject...Will always be.
At one point I had to produce a filmed documentary about an organization that takes care of women who've been raped and ended up pregnant.The psychological issues that those women had were tremendous.They were coming from different backgrounds,had different leves of education,but regardless,they all wanted to end the pregnancy.I have spoken to a few doctors that were working there and they've told me heartbreaking stories.Most of those women didn't wanted to keep a child that would have always reminded them of the trauma they went through.Some were terrified that the child could end up with genetical issues because it was the result of an incest.Others were too young and poor to be responsible,they had no family support and no job.

I was torn between my own beliefs...I do believe that abortion means to kill an innocent life...But then I was looking at those desperate depressed women,half destroyed physically and psychologically,and I thought that they have the RIGHT to choose.God will be the judge of that,not the society.

Well,these were the special cases...

IMO,everyone chooses to treat the abortion issue differently.I guess that's exactly the essence of the whole issue.Choice.
It's acceptable even from a religious point of view.You must all remember that the most important thing that God gave us humans was and is the FREE WILL,liberty of choice.No governement,no political group should dictate us (women) what to do.Abortion should be a choice.As a pregnant woman,you should be responsible and decide wheter you want or not to end a pregnancy.It depends on how you were brought up,or what are the circumstances that lead to that pregnancy.Too complicated to elaborate,of course...

There's only one exception - when the medical issues would lead to the child's death.Or when the mother's life is in danger and doctors decide that the pregnancy should be terminated.

The other non-medical reasons like lack of birth control,rape,ignorance,poverty etc.,are situations in which a woman is choosing what to do with her pregnancy.This is where FREE WILL comes in.I believe that as a woman and as a human being,you decide if what you choose is right or wrong.

Responsability,circumstances,ethics,the Bible,ignorance and many other things can be factors that determine a woman's way of thinking when it comes to abortion.

I agree with this being true, but disagree that it should be used as an excuse....

It's not an excuse,but a woman's perception.It's about what she feels and how she feels about a pregnancy.
This is so damn hard to explain to a man.You men are mentally different,you will never be capable to fully understand how a woman reacts to a pregnancy and WHY would she consider it unwanted.There are a miriad of impulses and details that summed up lead to a decision.

Not even trying to get into detail,seriously...




So?Is now clear enough that Steve Perry is NOT going back to Journey?

[*Laura]

I'm more than happy to discuss this in a new thread if you want to start one.

Can't,I'm afraid I'm going to get pregnant.

[scarygirl]

Jesus fuckin' Christ

Sorry, but boy do I hate it when people use His name like that.

I second that.....

Commandment #3 - Exodus 20:7

What is this, Biblefuckingland? Hey, me and the Lord used to be pals but he fuckin hates me now. I think God is on strike with white males, 41 years old living in SoCal.

Nah, he's not on strike...

[tj]

To mikemarrs...My apologies for assisting in the derailing of your thread.

I will be more than happy to discuss this in another thread but I think this should be the end of the discussion in this thread.

ditto. I didn't realize when I asked what kind of work evil conservative industries does it would cause this. It does show that people from all beliefs and backgrounds still can have one thing in common: Journey.

[ArnelRox]

Condemn, no....but I would let it be known that I don't approve.

Such a person needs support in this type of situation. That is the Christian way of handling things. By not approving, u would be adding to ur sister's predicament, not supporting her.

[ArnelRox]

Sometimes when dealing w/ Rox you just have to quote Matt:

"Eh?"

Says the guy who always makes sense. Dear God, please help me.

I'll use the "Eh?" response to u in the future. Thanks.

[ArnelRox]

I think JR's situation should definitely be understood. But that's my opinion.

I appreciate that a lot Rick. Thank u.

[ArnelRox]

That's the only situation I believe abortion is acceptable.

At least u allow that one. I'm surprised. I assume u will only condone it if done in the first trimester tho?

[ArnelRox]

I can't get into the way you fact things out in your mind. Not everything is black and white. Maybe you're just being the devils advocate, but there is a huge difference between removing a 4 - 8 week old embryo and beating a living, breathing & thinking child. You've got to see the difference.

Dramatically different. But somehow they don't see it, Rick.

[ArnelRox]

but the vast majority of abortions could have been avoided by ABSTAINING. There I said it! I don't care how many tomatoes get thrown my way. Abstinence is not a dirty word. If it was practiced more often, a whole slew of children could be spared.

Ur right. If only my stepfather abstained from raping me....

[RedWingFan]

Answer the rest: If ur sister didn't want to carry the child, product of her rape, & aborted, would u judge her

I wouldn't judge her, but I would remind her that one day she will be judged, just as the person who victimized her will.

or stop talking to her?

Of course not!

[ohsherrie]

I'm more than happy to discuss this in a new thread if you want to start one.

Can't,I'm afraid I'm going to get pregnant.

Best post in this thread and I think a good way to end it.

If the country can't unite in an election it's sure not going to on a messageboard.

No hard feelings with anyone that I disagreed with.

[scarygirl]

but the vast majority of abortions could have been avoided by ABSTAINING. There I said it! I don't care how many tomatoes get thrown my way. Abstinence is not a dirty word. If it was practiced more often, a whole slew of children could be spared.

Ur right. If only my stepfather abstained from raping me....

I believe in birth control (that includes condoms etc); I believe in the morning after pill; and in certain limited cases (rape being one of them), I believe in abortion, but the vast majority of abortions could have been avoided by ABSTAINING. There I said it! I don't care how many tomatoes get thrown my way. Abstinence is not a dirty word. If it was practiced more often, a whole slew of children could be spared.

The abortions I spoke of that could have been prevented are the one where people are just careless and two consenting adults.

[Greg]

I agree with this being true, but disagree that it should be used as an excuse....People in the southern states were BROUGHT UP to be racist. Using that theory it would be alright for them to be racist because they were brought up that way.

And making abortion legal is a slippery slope, leading to further questions. Should the government OR state have a say in anything relating to YOUR child. I mean women should be able to decide whats best in EVERY decision in their children's lives, right? I mean, if the government gives a woman the power to kill a child - shouldn't it give them the right to beat a child that is not aborted?

Eh, not true. I live in a southern state and was not brought up to be racist nor do I feel it's right to be racist. As far as abortion, I believe you make the choice to have the baby when you choose to have sex. Abortions shouldn't be used as a form of birth control. However, if a woman was forced into sex against her will, I think she should have a choice, but I'll say that partial birth abortions should be banned.

[ArnelRox]

Answer the rest: If ur sister didn't want to carry the child, product of her rape, & aborted, would u judge her

I wouldn't judge her, but I would remind her that one day she will be judged, just as the person who victimized her will.

or stop talking to her?

Of course not!

Would Jesus have reminded her that she'd be judged for that? Or would he have supported her thru her crisis? Just food for thought.

[ArnelRox]

The abortions I spoke of that could have been prevented are the one where people are just careless and two consenting adults.

Not ALL pregnancies occur this way!

[RedWingFan]

Answer the rest: If ur sister didn't want to carry the child, product of her rape, & aborted, would u judge her

I wouldn't judge her, but I would remind her that one day she will be judged, just as the person who victimized her will.

or stop talking to her?

Of course not!

Would Jesus have reminded her that she'd be judged for that? Or would he have supported her thru her crisis? Just food for thought.

I believe Jesus most certainly would have done both!