OT - The Divine Command Theory

[Little Lenny]

Sorry Lenny...I'll know if future

No problem, you didn't know becasue I didnt say, but atleayst you know now, and anyone else who reads the thread..
dont worry about it

[*Laura]

Oh God.

This is a tough subject especially after a looooong day...It was an interesting read,but because of some of the posts I ed more and almost quit to try to figure out the meaning of SMs thread opener dilemma.

Actually,there's no need to figure out anything as for me it's clear,as clear as it could get for an imperfect human being who believes that God is Perfect.
So,for me,everything He says is right.I'm a theocentric - I believe that God is the center of ALL things.The only thing that He cannot control,because he doesn't WANT to,is our Free Will which He gave us.
I mentioned the Free Will a few days ago in the abortions issue as well,because I do believe that FW is our way to show God if we believe in Him and what He says.

A quick practical example:God says it's not good to eat pork meat.We have so many other meat choices that He gave us which are good because He says so.
Still,people are eating pork all the time.They don't care,for them pork is good,although God says it's not.
We have the Free Will to choose what we eat,right?

Well,I gave up pork because God was right.The sad thing is that I didn't believed Him although I knew He told us to avoid eating pork.
Instead,I had to find out from a scientifical study/medical research that pork meat is poison to the body.
Fact is that I feel much better since I gave it up.Chicken and fish are great,just like God said.

Lesson learned:God was right.

I don't see God as a frightening deity who we must blindly follow and obey.I see him as a Genius,the perfect scientist,moralist and father who teached us the best ways to live our short lives.I guess it's up to us to understand what He says (through the Bible,not by e-mail,although that would work too ) and ultimately choose the right things.

Just like kids, humans don't have the power to fully understand the reasons and the meanings of God's decisions regarding the Rights and the Wrongs.
But like Dave quoted... "we will someday".


Ok,enough rambling...


Styxie,do tell us,the Kamasutra is your bible,isn't it?

[SusieP]

Also, has God ever made a mistake?

Yep, two mistakes. He only played live in the UK in '79 and later fired Smitty.



Doesn't it say in the Bible [this one's for you styxman, resident MR Bible expert] that 'your God is a jealous God?'
Well, I figure if he is jealous, he ain't perfect and if he aint perfect he isn't always right.

What was the question again?
And styxie, why did you want Benny Hill to come visit you?

[Socratic Methodist]

Oh God.

This is a tough subject especially after a looooong day...It was an interesting read,but because of some of the posts I ed more and almost quit to try to figure out the meaning of SMs thread opener dilemma.

Actually,there's no need to figure out anything as for me it's clear,as clear as it could get for an imperfect human being who believes that God is Perfect.
So,for me,everything He says is right.I'm a theocentric - I believe that God is the center of ALL things.The only thing that He cannot control,because he doesn't WANT to,is our Free Will which He gave us.
I mentioned the Free Will a few days ago in the abortions issue as well,because I do believe that FW is our way to show God if we believe in Him and what He says.

A quick practical example:God says it's not good to eat pork meat.We have so many other meat choices that He gave us which are good because He says so.
Still,people are eating pork all the time.They don't care,for them pork is good,although God says it's not.
We have the Free Will to choose what we eat,right?

Well,I gave up pork because God was right.The sad thing is that I didn't believed Him although I knew He told us to avoid eating pork.
Instead,I had to find out from a scientifical study/medical research that pork meat is poison to the body.
Fact is that I feel much better since I gave it up.Chicken and fish are great,just like God said.

Lesson learned:God was right.

I don't see God as a frightening deity who we must blindly follow and obey.I see him as a Genius,the perfect scientist,moralist and father who teached us the best ways to live our short lives.I guess it's up to us to understand what He says (through the Bible,not by e-mail,although that would work too ) and ultimately choose the right things.

Just like kids, humans don't have the power to fully understand the reasons and the meanings of God's decisions regarding the Rights and the Wrongs.
But like Dave quoted... "we will someday".


Ok,enough rambling...


Styxie,do tell us,the Kamasutra is your bible,isn't it?

Hmmmm...interesting thoughts Laura....

My only question would be this: If there are other 'wrong' things than just the 10 BIG ONES - why weren't they included in the commandments?

I mean are there only 10 taboos? I guess G-D says murder is wrong, but does he frown upon kicking the ever-living shit out of somebody?

Stealing is wrong, but can't we just hide someone's property for an inordinate amount of time?

I think that most of the commandments are things that are obviously, in this period of time, correct in prohibiting. But as always, I believe that G-D was invented by a few VERY intelligent individuals who saw religion as a way of CONTROLLING people. Because remember that in the beginning religion was polytheistic. Used to explain natural disasters, and weather events.

It wasn't the Sun moving across the sky, it was Apollo on his chariot. It wasn't a tidal wave, it was Poseidon. Bad crops this year, must have angered the 'gods'.

I respect your opinion. But if you look at things in a logical fashion, it just doesn't add up.

Also, saying that some things aren't meant to be understood, or that 'faith' is needed in some areas is just like saying, 'Ma'am, your kid has ADHD', when the doctor doesn't know what the hell is wrong with the kid. Just a blanket diagnosis to pacify the masses.

Of course, as always - your mileage may vary.

[Socratic Methodist]

BTW, just for your info....if there WAS/IS a G-D, the only good thing he ever did was invent 'Are You Being Served?'...

'Mr. Humphries, are you free?'

[SusieP]

BTW, just for your info....if there WAS/IS a G-D, the only good thing he ever did was invent 'Are You Being Served?'...

'Mr. Humphries, are you free?'

May he rest in Peace. God called him back home earlier this year.

[Rockindeano]

Notice this Euro has fucked up chicletts? And I know he didn't play hockey, so what's his excuse?

[Wheels Of Fyre]

If there are other 'wrong' things than just the 10 BIG ONES - why weren't they included in the commandments?

You can't be serious

I think that most of the commandments are things that are obviously, in this period of time, correct in prohibiting. But as always, I believe that G-D was invented by a few VERY intelligent individuals who saw religion as a way of CONTROLLING people. Because remember that in the beginning religion was polytheistic. Used to explain natural disasters, and weather events.

What's your point?

Also, saying that some things aren't meant to be understood...

Everything is meant to be understood. You just have to ask the right questions.

Your sarcasm really impedes having any meaningful discussion!

[chf34jmac]

Ok Here's an easier one to sharpen your teeth on!


If 7/11 stores are open 24 hours a day 7 days a week 365 days a year, then why are there locks on the doors?

[Moon Beam]

Hey Methodist Man, is there any particular reason you ain't
referring to the big guy as GOD.....it's buggin me biggly that your choppin his name.

[Rockindeano]

Hey Methodist Man, is there any particular reason you ain't
referring to the big guy as GOD.....it's buggin me biggly that your choppin his name.

Is there a law that says he/she has to believe in God? Don't think so.

[Socratic Methodist]

If there are other 'wrong' things than just the 10 BIG ONES - why weren't they included in the commandments?

You can't be serious

I think that most of the commandments are things that are obviously, in this period of time, correct in prohibiting. But as always, I believe that G-D was invented by a few VERY intelligent individuals who saw religion as a way of CONTROLLING people. Because remember that in the beginning religion was polytheistic. Used to explain natural disasters, and weather events.

What's your point?

Also, saying that some things aren't meant to be understood...

Everything is meant to be understood. You just have to ask the right questions.

Your sarcasm really impedes having any meaningful discussion!

There IS and WAS no sarcasm, WoF. And while we are on the topic of impeding. I'm all for joking, but this was supposed to be a serious discussion. There are more jokes, quips and funny stuff in this thread than a Leno monologue....

My question was serious.....

[Moon Beam]

Hey Methodist Man, is there any particular reason you ain't
referring to the big guy as GOD.....it's buggin me biggly that your choppin his name.

Is there a law that says he/she has to believe in God? Don't think so.

You be right Dean but that wasn't what I was speakin of.
Only my own pet peeve in post note Sir.

[Moon Beam]

There IS and WAS no sarcasm, WoF. And while we are on the topic of impeding. I'm all for joking, but this was supposed to be a serious discussion. There are more jokes, quips and funny stuff in this thread than a Leno monologue....

My question was serious.....

I'll take your thread in a belly shake mode Sir as
it's the way I like to tread with Religion in a public forum.

[Rockindeano]

Great...we have religeous zealots, right wingers, and Fyre Wings..all the makings of a useless, refuckintarded, and idiotic topic of discussion.

Why bring religeon here? That has got to be the stupidest thing ever?

[Moon Beam]

Great...we have religeous zealots, right wingers, and Fyre Wings..all the makings of a useless, refuckintarded, and idiotic topic of discussion.

Why bring religeon here? That has got to be the stupidest thing ever?

No stupider than 5 threads of sports here when there is a forum designed for it.

[Greg]

My only question would be this: If there are other 'wrong' things than just the 10 BIG ONES - why weren't they included in the commandments?

I mean are there only 10 taboos? I guess G-D says murder is wrong, but does he frown upon kicking the ever-living shit out of somebody?

Love Thy Neighbor??

Stealing is wrong, but can't we just hide someone's property for an inordinate amount of time?

Could be either bearing false witness to thy neighbor or coveting his property, both commandments of the ten commandments.

This is from Exodus 20:2-17.

2 I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery;

3 you shall have no other gods before me.

4 You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of parents, to the third and the fourth generation of those who reject me,

6 but showing steadfast love to the thousandth generation of those who love me and keep my commandments.

7 You shall not make wrongful use of the name of the Lord your God, for the Lord will not acquit anyone who misuses his name.

8 Remember the Sabbath day, and keep it holy.

9 For six days you shall labour and do all your work.

10 But the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God; you shall not do any work—you, your son or your daughter, your male or female slave, your livestock, or the alien resident in your towns.

11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but rested the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and consecrated it.

12 Honour your father and your mother, so that your days may be long in the land that the Lord your God is giving you.

13 You shall not murder.

14 You shall not commit adultery.

15 You shall not steal.

16 You shall not bear false witness against your neighbour.

17 You shall not covet your neighbour’s house; you shall not covet your neighbour’s wife, or male or female slave, or ox, or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbour.

Don't mean to be getting into these religious debates, because ya know, I come to these forums to talk about music. While I believe I should take any opportunity to witness to others who don't know Christ, I also realize that we all need a common place to go to to chat about things that don't infringe on personal beliefs. Of course, that wouldn't be the Journey forum...haahaha!

[Greg]

My only question would be this: If there are other 'wrong' things than just the 10 BIG ONES - why weren't they included in the commandments?

I mean are there only 10 taboos? I guess G-D says murder is wrong, but does he frown upon kicking the ever-living shit out of somebody?

Love Thy Neighbor??

Stealing is wrong, but can't we just hide someone's property for an inordinate amount of time?

Could be either bearing false witness to thy neighbor or coveting his property, both commandments of the ten commandments.

This is from Exodus 20:2-17.

2 I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery;

3 you shall have no other gods before me.

4 You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of parents, to the third and the fourth generation of those who reject me,

6 but showing steadfast love to the thousandth generation of those who love me and keep my commandments.

7 You shall not make wrongful use of the name of the Lord your God, for the Lord will not acquit anyone who misuses his name.

8 Remember the Sabbath day, and keep it holy.

9 For six days you shall labour and do all your work.

10 But the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God; you shall not do any work—you, your son or your daughter, your male or female slave, your livestock, or the alien resident in your towns.

11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but rested the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and consecrated it.

12 Honour your father and your mother, so that your days may be long in the land that the Lord your God is giving you.

13 You shall not murder.

14 You shall not commit adultery.

15 You shall not steal.

16 You shall not bear false witness against your neighbour.

17 You shall not covet your neighbour’s house; you shall not covet your neighbour’s wife, or male or female slave, or ox, or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbour.

Don't mean to be getting into these religious debates, because ya know, I come to these forums to talk about music. While I believe I should take any opportunity to witness to others who don't know Christ, I also realize that we all need a common place to go to to chat about things that don't infringe on personal beliefs. Of course, that wouldn't be the Journey forum...haahaha!

[conversationpc]

My only question would be this: If there are other 'wrong' things than just the 10 BIG ONES - why weren't they included in the commandments?

I mean are there only 10 taboos? I guess G-D says murder is wrong, but does he frown upon kicking the ever-living shit out of somebody?

Don't the 10 Commandments pretty much cover everything in general?

[Greg]

My only question would be this: If there are other 'wrong' things than just the 10 BIG ONES - why weren't they included in the commandments?

I mean are there only 10 taboos? I guess G-D says murder is wrong, but does he frown upon kicking the ever-living shit out of somebody?

Love Thy Neighbor??

Stealing is wrong, but can't we just hide someone's property for an inordinate amount of time?

Could be either bearing false witness to thy neighbor or coveting his property, both commandments of the ten commandments.

This is from Exodus 20:2-17.

2 I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery;

3 you shall have no other gods before me.

4 You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of parents, to the third and the fourth generation of those who reject me,

6 but showing steadfast love to the thousandth generation of those who love me and keep my commandments.

7 You shall not make wrongful use of the name of the Lord your God, for the Lord will not acquit anyone who misuses his name.

8 Remember the Sabbath day, and keep it holy.

9 For six days you shall labour and do all your work.

10 But the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God; you shall not do any work—you, your son or your daughter, your male or female slave, your livestock, or the alien resident in your towns.

11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but rested the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and consecrated it.

12 Honour your father and your mother, so that your days may be long in the land that the Lord your God is giving you.

13 You shall not murder.

14 You shall not commit adultery.

15 You shall not steal.

16 You shall not bear false witness against your neighbour.

17 You shall not covet your neighbour’s house; you shall not covet your neighbour’s wife, or male or female slave, or ox, or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbour.

Don't mean to be getting into these religious debates, because ya know, I come to these forums to talk about music. While I believe I should take any opportunity to witness to others who don't know Christ, I also realize that we all need a common place to go to to chat about things that don't infringe on personal beliefs. Of course, that wouldn't be the Journey forum...haahaha!

[Rockindeano]

No stupider than 5 threads of sports here when there is a forum designed for it.

Dipshit, sports aren't "real" meaning they are an escape for those of us who don't play professionally. You hardcore religeous fuckers are what's wrong with the world. Wars are fought because of religeon. What the fuck is the matter with you? And Moonbeam, why do you care what somebody els'sreligeon is? Who gives a shit?

[Moon Beam]

No stupider than 5 threads of sports here when there is a forum designed for it.

Dipshit, sports aren't "real" meaning they are an escape for those of us who don't play professionally. You hardcore religeous fuckers are what's wrong with the world. Wars are fought because of religeon. What the fuck is the matter with you? And Moonbeam, why do you care what somebody els'sreligeon is? Who gives a shit?

Hardcore?.........me?.................surely you've played to much with the
pipe lately Sir.
Just so you know Dean'a, I do so love to read of others thoughts on
subjects that hold my interest........like uhmmm, lets say, RELIGION.
I have those in close family that do not believe in God and I hold them
in the highest regard on music.
I'm just sayin.............
Yup, this be bettter than fuckin cornflakes with brown sugar on top!

[Rockindeano]

No stupider than 5 threads of sports here when there is a forum designed for it.

Dipshit, sports aren't "real" meaning they are an escape for those of us who don't play professionally. You hardcore religeous fuckers are what's wrong with the world. Wars are fought because of religeon. What the fuck is the matter with you? And Moonbeam, why do you care what somebody els'sreligeon is? Who gives a shit?

Hardcore?.........me?.................surely you've played to much with the
pipe lately Sir.
Just so you know Dean'a, I do so love to read of others thoughts on
subjects that hold my interest........like uhmmm, lets say, RELIGION.
I have those in close family that do not believe in God and I hold them
in the highest regard on music.
I'm just sayin.............
Yup, this be bettter than fuckin cornflakes with brown sugar on top!

I would actually fuck you Moonbeam, with that dirty mouth of yours and that sense of wackiness.....I bet you are a tough out in the ninth.

[Moon Beam]

Your a fuckin ass card with an ace face Dean.

Lula smack him a whack or two for me, the man has no
scruples sometimes.


No one slays like you Dean, thanks for the shakes.

[styxman]

Oh God.

This is a tough subject especially after a looooong day...It was an interesting read,but because of some of the posts I ed more and almost quit to try to figure out the meaning of SMs thread opener dilemma.

Actually,there's no need to figure out anything as for me it's clear,as clear as it could get for an imperfect human being who believes that God is Perfect.
So,for me,everything He says is right.I'm a theocentric - I believe that God is the center of ALL things.The only thing that He cannot control,because he doesn't WANT to,is our Free Will which He gave us.
I mentioned the Free Will a few days ago in the abortions issue as well,because I do believe that FW is our way to show God if we believe in Him and what He says.

A quick practical example:God says it's not good to eat pork meat.We have so many other meat choices that He gave us which are good because He says so.
Still,people are eating pork all the time.They don't care,for them pork is good,although God says it's not.
We have the Free Will to choose what we eat,right?

Well,I gave up pork because God was right.The sad thing is that I didn't believed Him although I knew He told us to avoid eating pork.
Instead,I had to find out from a scientifical study/medical research that pork meat is poison to the body.
Fact is that I feel much better since I gave it up.Chicken and fish are great,just like God said.

Lesson learned:God was right.

I don't see God as a frightening deity who we must blindly follow and obey.I see him as a Genius,the perfect scientist,moralist and father who teached us the best ways to live our short lives.I guess it's up to us to understand what He says (through the Bible,not by e-mail,although that would work too ) and ultimately choose the right things.

Just like kids, humans don't have the power to fully understand the reasons and the meanings of God's decisions regarding the Rights and the Wrongs.
But like Dave quoted... "we will someday".


Ok,enough rambling...


Styxie,do tell us,the Kamasutra is your bible,isn't it?

Laura, it's a bloody good job there wasn't any soda about in those days, the teeth and fat intake issue from G-d's point of view would have meant no Coke or Pepsi for us (there again perhaps it was G-d's intervention that brought us Diet Coke!).....imagine also if John The Baptist had a Hot Dog stall JC would have also seen the lack of nutrition is this, JB would have lost his income and even worse NY wouldn't have any street vendors. There again, I wonder if JB did in fact have a Hot Dog stall but his Dogs were minging and he couldn't get hold of any sweet mustard and chilli, perhaps that's why he lost his head

Anyway BA ain't at No5 and Faith Hill didn't turn up, guess G-d's pissed off with me

Now do you see why my Bible is the Kamasutra

[Little Lenny]

philosophical discussion can be as much an escape for some people in conversation as can sport. Not everyone likes sport not everyone likes philosophy. Again, it is each to their own, and respect of each individuals wishes.
You could even say this is theoretics and theological discusion;again that might not be to everyones taste, but if it isn't then you have a conscious awareness not to persue the thread or at least if you do to put your view over whilst respecting others, in my opinion.

For me Art , History and Literature are aslo forms of escape.

so I guess that is why SM began this discussion, as it is maybe a form of escape, an alternative form. Although I could be wrong in my assumption. Apologies if Iam
For me this discussion is interesting coming from a multireligious background..hence why I said about atheists, agnostics, pagans etc..

[styxman]

Imagine England with no Bacon.......you think Iraq's bad - if that G-dly law was introduced, England would be a no go zone Would you like a plate of eggs, beans, mushrooms and fried bread....."Where's my fuckin' bacon?" the lorry driver would immediately say

At least we can take the piss out of ours, start talkin' about the other one and you're on a death list Fuckin' fanatics

[Little Lenny]

Imagine England with no Bacon.......you think Iraq's bad - if that G-dly law was introduced, England would be a no go zone Would you like a plate of eggs, beans, mushrooms and fried bread....."Where's my fuckin' bacon?" the lorry driver would immediately say

At least we can take the piss out of ours, start talkin' about the other one and you're on a death list Fuckin' fanatics

I hope that doesn't include me Mr Styxman:shock: , I am far from being a religious fanatic. Although somehow I think you might understand where I'm coming from being interested in this kinda stuff after my explanation about me last night ..
Also I have just realized my browser provides a spell checker for me...things just keep getting better and better!

[SusieP]

Imagine England with no Bacon.......you think Iraq's bad - if that G-dly law was introduced, England would be a no go zone Would you like a plate of eggs, beans, mushrooms and fried bread....."Where's my fuckin' bacon?" the lorry driver would immediately say

At least we can take the piss out of ours, start talkin' about the other one and you're on a death list Fuckin' fanatics

I hope that doesn't include me Mr Styxman:shock: , I am far from being a religious fanatic. Although somehow I think you might understand where I'm coming from being interested in this kinda stuff after my explanation about me last night ..
Also I have just realized my browser provides a spell checker for me...things just keep getting better and better!

Never mind all that, do you want a bacon sandwich?

[Little Lenny]

Imagine England with no Bacon.......you think Iraq's bad - if that G-dly law was introduced, England would be a no go zone Would you like a plate of eggs, beans, mushrooms and fried bread....."Where's my fuckin' bacon?" the lorry driver would immediately say

At least we can take the piss out of ours, start talkin' about the other one and you're on a death list Fuckin' fanatics

I hope that doesn't include me Mr Styxman:shock: , I am far from being a religious fanatic. Although somehow I think you might understand where I'm coming from being interested in this kinda stuff after my explanation about me last night ..
Also I have just realized my browser provides a spell checker for me...things just keep getting better and better!

Never mind all that, do you want a bacon sandwich?

can I have one please ...just got back from the hospital, and I've got the green light from suspected cancer, everything is fine ... so a bacon banjo would be lovely