Who is MORE recognizable in Journey?

[Rockindeano]

Without Neal Schon, none of you Loons would ever have heard of Journey or Steve Perry. I don't care what your poll results will be, Neal IS Journey.

[b]haha! Shows what you know...

I know so much more about Journey than you ever will, Redneck. Lose that fucking annoying glitter too...makes your team looks more effeminate than it already is.

OMG...You are so hillarious!!! Is that the best you can come up with? Ooooh please...Like I said before, we'll settle it on the field....

You SEC people won't come out to the west coast to play us. According to all of you hicks, we don't exist. Make sure to fly the Stars and Bars, munch on some Skoal, and sip on some Mayonnaise. No question in my mind Washington State would smoke Bama.

[Saint John]

It's HIS band if he wants it.

Ok, enough. Dude, you seriously need to quit saying absolutely stupid shit.

Nothing stupid about it. If Perry said he'd come back, do an album and a tour BUT here are my terms, you don't think they'd hand control right over to him? As long as Neal gets to cash HUGE checks he doesn't care who is steering the ship.

I do not disagree with that at all. Just saying, it will always be Neal's band. This would work because Neal, Jon, Ross and Deen are all broke. Perry could fill their pockets again. The problem would be that of all those guys talents today, Perry would be the weakest link in all honestly.

Weakest link? Not even close. Look at Jagger, Bon Jovi, Sting and David Lee Roth. They're not even close to what they used to be, yet they tour (will tour in VH's case) with HUGE success. Perry would help them go from their average of about 5,000 fans (if they tour alone) to around 15,000 to 20,000. Not to mention that the ticket prices would double. That is far from being the "weakest link." And your assessment of Perry's vocal abilities is speculation at best....just like me thinking that he's still "got it."

PS You base Perry's vocal abilities on what Neal Schon told you. You actually believe him?

[donnaplease]

If Steve Perry hadn't joined the band, or at least some other great lead vocalist who could also write, then Journey wouldn't have been as famous and wouldn't have made as much money, sold as many albums etc, etc.

However, I think there's an excellent chance that Neal Schon would have been more respected as a guitar "God."

There are guitarists out there that are no-where nearly as great as Neal Schon and yet they get more respect than him because there are so many people who want to knock Journey for their success.

Steve Perry did take over for Raised On Radio and the end result was not that good. ROR was not as great as Escape, Frontiers, Deaparture and Infinity. Also Perry was an asshole and fired Valory and more or less forced Smith out as well. ROR didn't sell as well as Escape and Frontiers, and then Perry didn't even finish out the tour.

So things aren't so great with Steve Perry in charge either.

They weren't... but one has to wonder if whatever it was that SP was doing (rumors are rampant) affected his ability to make sound choices. I would be curious to know~based on the success that the dvd's and the remasters have enjoyed~if things would have been different if he used the same business sense then that he obviously has now.

[sindee67]

Without Neal Schon, none of you Loons would ever have heard of Journey or Steve Perry. I don't care what your poll results will be, Neal IS Journey.

haha! Shows what you know...

I know so much more about Journey than you ever will, Redneck. Lose that fucking annoying glitter too...makes your team looks more effeminate than it already is.

OMG...You are so hillarious!!! Is that the best you can come up with? Ooooh please...Like I said before, we'll settle it on the field....

You SEC people won't come out to the west coast to play us. According to all of you hicks, we don't exist. Make sure to fly the Stars and Bars, munch on some Skoal, and sip on some Mayonnaise. No question in my mind Washington State would smoke Bama.

Oh, contraire, dear man, we were there several times for the ROSE BOWL...I don't see ya'll coming down here, what's the matter, afraid the red mud might mess up your pretty POWDER BLUE jerseys?

[Rockindeano]

Weakest link? Not even close. Look at Jagger, Bon Jovi, Sting and David Lee Roth. They're not even close to what they used to be, yet they tour (will tour in VH's case) with HUGE success. Perry would help them go from their average of about 5,000 fans (if they tour alone) to around 15,000 to 20,000. Not to mention that the ticket prices would double. That is far from being the "weakest link." And your assessment of Perry's vocal abilities is speculation at best....just like me thinking that he's still "got it."

Fact is, and you know I love Espee, is that Neal can play a better guitar than Perry can sing now. Friga can play a better Keyboard and piano than Espee can sing now. Deen can play drums and probably sing better than Perry can. Ross plays bass and is average at best, so fuck him anyway.

PS You base Perry's vocal abilities on what Neal Schon told you. You actually believe him?

On this matter, yes I do. Neal has a standing respect for Perry. I do believe him, because I also heard this from many other upstanding musicians who know Perry.

[sindee67]

Oh, and isn't Washington State lead by that DUMB ASS that NOTRE DAME fired because they were losing games, and then hired a coach that won games...Washington State can come down here anyday, and when we're done, we'll send across the state line to FLORIDA for GATOR BAIT..

[Rockindeano]

Without Neal Schon, none of you Loons would ever have heard of Journey or Steve Perry. I don't care what your poll results will be, Neal IS Journey.

haha! Shows what you know...

I know so much more about Journey than you ever will, Redneck. Lose that fucking annoying glitter too...makes your team looks more effeminate than it already is.

OMG...You are so hillarious!!! Is that the best you can come up with? Ooooh please...Like I said before, we'll settle it on the field....

You SEC people won't come out to the west coast to play us. According to all of you hicks, we don't exist. Make sure to fly the Stars and Bars, munch on some Skoal, and sip on some Mayonnaise. No question in my mind Washington State would smoke Bama.

Oh, contraire, dear man, we were there several times for the ROSE BOWL...I don't see ya'll coming down here, what's the matter, afraid the red mud might mess up your pretty POWDER BLUE jerseys?

Powder Blue? That would be UCLA, and they are soft, I went to Wash State. . You went to the Rose Bowl? When? Did we have cars back then or did you suck dick on horseback, Annie Oakley?

[sindee67]

Without Neal Schon, none of you Loons would ever have heard of Journey or Steve Perry. I don't care what your poll results will be, Neal IS Journey.

haha! Shows what you know...

I know so much more about Journey than you ever will, Redneck. Lose that fucking annoying glitter too...makes your team looks more effeminate than it already is.

OMG...You are so hillarious!!! Is that the best you can come up with? Ooooh please...Like I said before, we'll settle it on the field....

You SEC people won't come out to the west coast to play us. According to all of you hicks, we don't exist. Make sure to fly the Stars and Bars, munch on some Skoal, and sip on some Mayonnaise. No question in my mind Washington State would smoke Bama.

Oh, contraire, dear man, we were there several times for the ROSE BOWL...I don't see ya'll coming down here, what's the matter, afraid the red mud might mess up your pretty POWDER BLUE jerseys?

Powder Blue? That would be UCLA, and they are soft, I went to Wash State. . You went to the Rose Bowl? When? Did we have cars back then or did you suck dick on horseback, Annie Oakley?

thank you, Annie Oakley was awesome...Check your history, Deano...You tell me when we were there..You're not POWDER BLUE? My bad

[sindee67]

...and, yes, back to the REAL SUBJECT of the thread, Neal is a great guitar player...

[Vladan]

Without Neal Schon, none of you Loons would ever have heard of Journey or Steve Perry. I don't care what your poll results will be, Neal IS Journey.

Well with all due respect Dean. I do agree with you on that, but I still believe Perry is more recognizable.

[Wheels Of Fyre]

Without Neal Schon, none of you Loons would ever have heard of Journey or Steve Perry. I don't care what your poll results will be, Neal IS Journey.

If that were true then he never would've waited until 1996 for SP to return.

The band was originally formed around him but Columbia and HH realized after 3 albums that he wasn't the star that they thought.

Basically, he's reduced to the member with the longest tenure but that in no way supports that he is JOURNEY.

[Red13JoePa]

It's really all about Neal Schon for me.

[Deb]

It's really all about Neal Schon for me.

.....and it's really all about Steve Perry for me.

[Red13JoePa]

Ahhh.

No comment.

[Deb]

Good boy.

[MartyMoffatt]

It’s not really a fair question. In the vast majority of cases it will always be the singer who is more recogniseable – the only exceptions where the guitarist (or other musician) is more famous) that I can think of are:-

AC/DC – Angus is more recogniseable because he has a very visual image on stage.
Van Halen – Eddie Van Halen. Er.. that might have something to do with the name of the band. Also, I would argue that when the band were at the height of their success, in ’82 to ’84 Dave Lee Roth was actually more recogniseable, because it was his face plastered over all the cheesy videos they released at the time.
Uriah Heep – guitarist Mick Box is probably the only original member and the only recogniseable face left in the band. Mind you, they’ve been through many more vocalists than Journey.
Velvet Revolver – Slash is more well known, but mainly because most people regard them as basically Guns’n’Roses with a different singer.
Cream – That’s only because Eric Clapton is the only one to do anything of note since.

However, even with a band like Manfred Mann’s Earth Band, where it clearly belongs to Manfred Mann (the keyboardist), it is actually Chris Thompson the vocalist who everybody recognises.

There are lots of bands who have or had high profile world renowned guitarists but still had vocalists who are more recogniseable. For example Led Zeppelin, Free, Deep Purple, Rainbow, Queen, Fleetwood Mac, Black Sabbath, U2. I would bet that even though you can probably name the guitarist in each of these bands it is actually the singer who you’d recognise if you saw them in the street. Even with The Who, mentioned in an earlier post, I would argue that Roger Daltrey (note spelling) is more recogniseable. When you hear ‘Pinball Wizard’ belting out, it is Roger’s face that comes to mind, not Pete Townsend’s rotating arms.

What I am basically saying is that who is more ‘recogniseable’ is no indication of who is more important to the band, or who owns the band, or who is the better performer. For me, it is the overall music that draws me to a particular band, not just the singing, but even so I generally remember the singer more easily.

Marty

[NealIsGod]

It's really all about Neal Schon for me.

.....and it's really all about Steve Perry for me.

Did you steal that from Linus' sock drawer?

[mistiejourney]

Without Neal Schon, none of you Loons would ever have heard of Journey or Steve Perry. I don't care what your poll results will be, Neal IS Journey.

Deano has a point here (even though I voted for Perry as the more "recognizable"). Journey has now had four lead singers, but the "sound" of the band is the same if you get my drift. Early Journey sounds like Journey even with no lead singer. The two tracks on Time3 sound like Journey even though they are instrumentals.

When you realize that Journey changed keyboardists, drummers and bassists during the last three decades, Neal is the only true constant. The man is phenomenal as a guitarist and I can pick him out of any lineup of lead guitars immediately. The guy puts Carlos Santana into the ground, IMO.

Too bad he can't run the business with any brains.

[squirt1]

You know what? I am sick of hearing this is Neal's band. His band was dying before Perry much like it is today. Neal's band is a musical Titanic. If Perry did do anything with them, they would run for the money and Perry would have legal strings to protect himself.

[nikki]

Neal might "be" Journey, but Perry is the one who appealed to the masses. Those songs would not have been the same with another singer, plain and simple. Perry took that band to a whole other level.

[SteveForever]

Neal might "be" Journey, but Perry is the one who appealed to the masses. Those songs would not have been the same with another singer, plain and simple. Perry took that band to a whole other level.

damn straight...

[dcvader]

SP by a mile. That's what has pissed Fro off for all these year's. SP had that fucker by the balls and he knew it.

[Enigma869]

I'm not sure how this morphed into whose band it is. I believe the question was "who is more recognizable in Journey". If that's the question, there is simply no other answer. It's Perry, Perry, and Perry! I was reading a magazine today and the editor was talking about watching the last episode of The Sopranos. His exact words were "Steve Perry begins singing Don't Stop Believin'". He didn't even say Journey and certainly didn't say Schon! I am admittedly a Perry fan. That said, I'm not sure how anyone can honestly say that the lead singer isn't the most recognizable figure in almost every band that has ever existed! It's simply the way it is! As I've said 1000 times, the average music fan couldn't tell you who Neal Schon is, what instrument he plays, or if he is even any good on the instrument he plays! It's the voice, folks!

I also don't agree with Dean's premise that without Neal, that nobody ever would have heard of Perry. While it's certainly possible the statement could be true, nobody will ever know. I've listened to Perry's demo tape (sans Neal), and I can tell you that he sounded every bit as good to my ears without Neal as he did with Neal playing guitar! The one thing that I'm 100% certain of is that if not for Perry joining Journey, the people on this board wouldn't even know Schon's name!


John from Boston

[MartyMoffatt]

I also don't agree with Dean's premise that without Neal, that nobody ever would have heard of Perry. While it's certainly possible the statement could be true, nobody will ever know. I've listened to Perry's demo tape (sans Neal), and I can tell you that he sounded every bit as good to my ears without Neal as he did with Neal playing guitar! The one thing that I'm 100% certain of is that if not for Perry joining Journey, the people on this board wouldn't even know Schon's name!


John from Boston

Don't you think, though, that the difference between being a household name and relative obscurity is down to a combination of factors, not just how talented you are as an individual. Lots of people are now waking up to the fact that JSS is a great singer and performer, and his popularity now is rising. However, he's been a great singer and performer for well over 20 years with minimal public recognition.

Likewise with Steve Perry, no matter how good a singer he was, if he hadn't joined Journey when he did, at a time when the market was right for that particular combination of artists to achieve mainstream popularity, there's a good chance he would have continued singing, or maybe retired, still in obscurity.

How many other fantastic singers are there who never go on to achieve the heights he did, after he joined Journey?

Marty

[rdekker]

Perry was only recognizable in a little over half of Journey's collection. It has been about Schon from the beginning. Every song has his signature written all over it. One cannot deny all the great music Journey made without Perry.

[Little Lenny]

How many bands can say that their guitarist is more famous than their singer? And the majority of the bands that do have a more well known guitarist usually don't have a great lead singer, at least not in Steve Perry's league anyway.

Can anyone think of a singer who is as good as Steve Perry, and yet the guitarist in the band is more famous than the singer?

Pete Townsend is more recognizable than Roger Daughtry - and Roger is a really good singer.

No offense to you or to The who!

But first of all I don't think that Townsend is very much more known than Daughtry, Townsend is a legend, but so is Daughtry for that matter. Plus IMO Daughtry is not even close to being in Perry's league as a singer. No offense Daughtry fans!

Thats becasue Roger DALTRY has a different kind of voice, you cannot class him against Steve Perry two totally different voices. It would be like classing Freddie mercury against Jon Bon Jovi. So In a way you're right he is not in the same league sound wise, but as a singer he is, some of the stuff he has done especially rock Opera stuff is brilliant, there I am afraid I have to disagree with you.
However, I do understand everyone has their own opinion

[Matthew]

Perry was only recognizable in a little over half of Journey's collection. It has been about Schon from the beginning. Every song has his signature written all over it. One cannot deny all the great music Journey made without Perry.

I can't deny Neal's guitar work on ANY record - but overall the music Journey have produced without Perry is most deniable.

[Enigma869]

One cannot deny all the great music Journey made without Perry.

HUH???? All the great music without Perry???? When did this happen??? We must have been listening to different bands and a very different Journey "collection"! With all due respect, I think that's an absurd statement! As much as I enjoyed Arrival (and still do), Journey hasn't made ANY "great" music without Perry! Also, I think Perry had far more songwriting credits in Journey's catalogue than Schon has. Because of that, I think one could certainly make the argument that Perry's signature is all over everything Journey!


John from Boston

[Enigma869]

Don't you think, though, that the difference between being a household name and relative obscurity is down to a combination of factors, not just how talented you are as an individual. Lots of people are now waking up to the fact that JSS is a great singer and performer, and his popularity now is rising. However, he's been a great singer and performer for well over 20 years with minimal public recognition.

Likewise with Steve Perry, no matter how good a singer he was, if he hadn't joined Journey when he did, at a time when the market was right for that particular combination of artists to achieve mainstream popularity, there's a good chance he would have continued singing, or maybe retired, still in obscurity.

How many other fantastic singers are there who never go on to achieve the heights he did, after he joined Journey?

Marty

To answer your question, Yes...I definitely do think there are a combination of factors that determine what happened with Journey (or anyone else, for that matter). Sometimes, it isn't just about talent, and I admitted as much. As I said in my original post, the statement that Perry would have remained unknown could certainly have validity to it. My only point was that it is certainly just as likely that nobody would know who Neal Schon is, if not for Perry being brought into Journey. No matter what the die-hard Schon fans say, it doesn't change the fact that Journey was completely unknown with Schon driving the bus, regardless of his immense talent! We can always speculate that Perry may have retired from music, as a complete unknown. That said, we don't have to speculate about Schon, because we know Journey wasn't Journey when it was all about Neal Schon!

John from Boston

[Little Lenny]

I think the problem with this question is your taking two different sections of a band, a singer and a guitarist, you need both to contribute, whether it be in in the foreground or the back ground.
And also the relevance of who is known more than whoever well, to me it doesn't really matter, it is the over all sound that the components make, that is the guitars, bass, percussion vocals when all placed together.