OT: Dean's Avatar

[Rick]

Again, you have the irony the religious right aligned with the NRA in conservative politics.

There are the same kind of alignments on the left. Don't delude yourself.

I'm not at all deluded. But my enlightened self sees the Demoncratic party(by default since only one of the big two has a chance in hell of winning) as the lesser of those two evils.

Yes ma'am, you are correct. I'm assuming that errant 'n' was on purpose.

[ohsherrie]

Again, you have the irony the religious right aligned with the NRA in conservative politics.

There are the same kind of alignments on the left. Don't delude yourself.

I'm not at all deluded. But my enlightened self sees the Demoncratic party(by default since only one of the big two has a chance in hell of winning) as the lesser of those two evils.

Yes ma'am, you are correct. I'm assuming that errant 'n' was on purpose.

I wish I could claim that Rick, but it was really just a typo.

[Rick]

Again, you have the irony the religious right aligned with the NRA in conservative politics.

There are the same kind of alignments on the left. Don't delude yourself.

I'm not at all deluded. But my enlightened self sees the Demoncratic party(by default since only one of the big two has a chance in hell of winning) as the lesser of those two evils.

Yes ma'am, you are correct. I'm assuming that errant 'n' was on purpose.

I wish I could claim that Rick, but it was really just a typo.

I would have understood either way.

[RedWingFan]

Again, you have the irony the religious right aligned with the NRA in conservative politics.

There are the same kind of alignments on the left. Don't delude yourself.

I'm not at all deluded. But my enlightened self sees the Demoncratic party(by default since only one of the big two has a chance in hell of winning) as the lesser of those two evils.

Yes ma'am, you are correct. I'm assuming that errant 'n' was on purpose.

I wish I could claim that Rick, but it was really just a typo.

Then again they are the party that defends the right to choose shoving scissors in the backs of unborn babies skulls, sucking their brains out and tossing the rest out with the trash. Solely because of their alignment with the National Organization of Women in liberal politics

[Rockindeano]

Again, you have the irony the religious right aligned with the NRA in conservative politics.

There are the same kind of alignments on the left. Don't delude yourself.

I'm not at all deluded. But my enlightened self sees the Demoncratic party(by default since only one of the big two has a chance in hell of winning) as the lesser of those two evils.

Yes ma'am, you are correct. I'm assuming that errant 'n' was on purpose.

I wish I could claim that Rick, but it was really just a typo.

Then again they are the party that defends the right to choose shoving scissors in the backs of unborn babies skulls, sucking their brains out and tossing the rest out with the trash. Solely because of their alignment with the National Organization of Women in liberal politics

Come on dude. I defend a woman's right to be who she is and what she wants to do with her body. Stop trying to make it so damned vile.

Ok, here's one for you.

You defend the party that starts wars based on lies, where over 100,000 innocent people have died, based on a lie; a fucking lie. You are also part of the GOP who denies health care to citizens, poorer than you and the the top whatever percentile.

Hmm

[Rick]

Again, you have the irony the religious right aligned with the NRA in conservative politics.

There are the same kind of alignments on the left. Don't delude yourself.

I'm not at all deluded. But my enlightened self sees the Demoncratic party(by default since only one of the big two has a chance in hell of winning) as the lesser of those two evils.

Yes ma'am, you are correct. I'm assuming that errant 'n' was on purpose.

I wish I could claim that Rick, but it was really just a typo.

Then again they are the party that defends the right to choose shoving scissors in the backs of unborn babies skulls, sucking their brains out and tossing the rest out with the trash. Solely because of their alignment with the National Organization of Women in liberal politics

Are you talking about the partial birth abortion? If that is true, that is the biggest abomination that is practiced in 'medicine'. How that isn't illegal is outside of logical thinking. What a horrendous practice.

[ohsherrie]

Again, you have the irony the religious right aligned with the NRA in conservative politics.

There are the same kind of alignments on the left. Don't delude yourself.

I'm not at all deluded. But my enlightened self sees the Demoncratic party(by default since only one of the big two has a chance in hell of winning) as the lesser of those two evils.

Yes ma'am, you are correct. I'm assuming that errant 'n' was on purpose.

I wish I could claim that Rick, but it was really just a typo.

Then again they are the party that defends the right to choose shoving scissors in the backs of unborn babies skulls, sucking their brains out and tossing the rest out with the trash. Solely because of their alignment with the National Organization of Women in liberal politics

I'm not saying there aren't extremes on both side RF. I cringe at the thought of partial birth abortions. But, I can envision cases where they may be necessary to save the mother's life. Not being Catholic I don't necessarily agree that the mother has had her chance at life and the baby should be given his/hers. There are cases where carrying the child endangers both lives and I can't think of any rationale for letting that situation evolve naturally rather than saving the most viable life.

Given the other differences in the parties though, I'll align myself with the one that clearly cares about the well being of the majority of the people in this country regardless of their religious affiliation or lack thereof, or their financial status.

[Rhiannon]

Are you talking about the partial birth abortion? If that is true, that is the biggest abomination that is practiced in 'medicine'. How that isn't illegal is outside of logical thinking. What a horrendous practice.

Leaving my personal viewpoints and beliefs out on this, but if one is going to carry the child to that far along in their term, why not just give it up for adoption other than killing the poor thing? Why? I don't care if it has three arms, someone out there will love that kid.

[RedWingFan]

Come on dude. I defend a woman's right to be who she is and what she wants to do with her body.

So you're perfectly okay with a pregnant woman doing crack, or huffing paint, heroin, damaging that kid for the rest of it's life?

Stop trying to make it so damned vile.

That is exactly what the partial birth abortion procedure is! And your party defends it! There's not one drop of mothers blood spilled!!!! If you saw one performed you know what would run through your mind? "Oh my God, they just killed that baby." I guarantee it!

You defend the party that starts wars based on lies

You mean the lies that were repeated adnauseum for years by BOTH parties?

where over 100,000 innocent people have died

Don't believe those #'s for a second but how many millions of people now live in freedom? Katie Couric just got back and was amazed at the progress there.

You are also part of the GOP who denies health care to citizens

Hospitals are required by law to provide health care to all, even illegal immigrants. They sure as hell aren't denied.

[conversationpc]

I'm not saying there aren't extremes on both side RF. I cringe at the thought of partial birth abortions. But, I can envision cases where they may be necessary to save the mother's life.

How is pulling the rest of the head of the already "mostly" born child going to endanger the mother's life. At that point, the cervix is already fully dilated and, according to some sources, the head has already passed through the cervix by the time this gruesome procedure is performed.

[Rick]

Then again they are the party that defends the right to choose shoving scissors in the backs of unborn babies skulls, sucking their brains out and tossing the rest out with the trash. Solely because of their alignment with the National Organization of Women in liberal politics

Come on dude. I defend a woman's right to be who she is and what she wants to do with her body. [/quote]
So you're perfectly okay with a pregnant woman doing crack, or huffing paint, heroin, damaging that kid for the rest of it's life?

Stop trying to make it so damned vile.

That is exactly what the partial birth abortion procedure is! And your party defends it! There's not one drop of mothers blood spilled!!!! If you saw one performed you know what would run through your mind? "Oh my God, they just killed that baby." I guarantee it!

You defend the party that starts wars based on lies

You mean the lies that were repeated adnauseum for years by BOTH parties?

where over 100,000 innocent people have died

Don't believe those #'s for a second but how many millions of people now live in freedom? Katie Couric just got back and was amazed at the progress there.

You are also part of the GOP who denies health care to citizens

Hospitals are required by law to provide health care to all, even illegal immigrants. They sure as hell aren't denied.[/quote]

Dude, fix your post, I can't figure it out. I'm on like 11 now.

[Rockindeano]

For the record, I am personally against abortion, but hey, when it comes down to it, it's the woman's body, and it's her choice. Simple.

[RedWingFan]

Again, you have the irony the religious right aligned with the NRA in conservative politics.

There are the same kind of alignments on the left. Don't delude yourself.

I'm not at all deluded. But my enlightened self sees the Demoncratic party(by default since only one of the big two has a chance in hell of winning) as the lesser of those two evils.

Yes ma'am, you are correct. I'm assuming that errant 'n' was on purpose.

I wish I could claim that Rick, but it was really just a typo.

Then again they are the party that defends the right to choose shoving scissors in the backs of unborn babies skulls, sucking their brains out and tossing the rest out with the trash. Solely because of their alignment with the National Organization of Women in liberal politics

Are you talking about the partial birth abortion? If that is true, that is the biggest abomination that is practiced in 'medicine'. How that isn't illegal is outside of logical thinking. What a horrendous practice.

Yeah, It's horrible.
http://www.nrlc.org/abortion/pba/diagram.html
I saw a documentary about it once. A nurse talked about how she was prochoice til she saw it performed. The babies arms flailed out when the "Dr." jammed the scissors in and went limp after sucking it's brain out.

[RedWingFan]

For the record, I am personally against abortion, but hey, when it comes down to it, it's the woman's body, and it's her choice. Simple.

So if I could put you into a time machine and send you back 200 years. You'd say, "Hey, I am personally against slavery, but it comes down to the slaveowners choice. Simple"? Wrong is wrong dude. They're both wrong, disgusting and should be done away with.

[Saint John]

For the record, I am personally against abortion, but hey, when it comes down to it, it's the woman's body, and it's her choice. Simple.

No...it's not. There's something living inside of her body that needs protection. If there's a woman who is 8 weeks pregnant and I run up to her and decide to play the drum beat to Separate Ways on her stomach with a Louisville Slugger I am no worse than her if she chooses to walk into an abortion clinic. We're doing the EXACT same thing. Killing something unborn, yet LIVING.

[Rick]

Again, you have the irony the religious right aligned with the NRA in conservative politics.

There are the same kind of alignments on the left. Don't delude yourself.

I'm not at all deluded. But my enlightened self sees the Demoncratic party(by default since only one of the big two has a chance in hell of winning) as the lesser of those two evils.

Yes ma'am, you are correct. I'm assuming that errant 'n' was on purpose.

I wish I could claim that Rick, but it was really just a typo.

Then again they are the party that defends the right to choose shoving scissors in the backs of unborn babies skulls, sucking their brains out and tossing the rest out with the trash. Solely because of their alignment with the National Organization of Women in liberal politics

Are you talking about the partial birth abortion? If that is true, that is the biggest abomination that is practiced in 'medicine'. How that isn't illegal is outside of logical thinking. What a horrendous practice.

Yeah, It's horrible.
http://www.nrlc.org/abortion/pba/diagram.html
I saw a documentary about it once. A nurse talked about how she was prochoice til she saw it performed. The babies arms flailed out when the "Dr." jammed the scissors in and went limp after sucking it's brain out.

That's just horrible. I can understand abortion, it does have it's place, but not at this level.

[Rhiannon]

I know its supposedly "our right" to choose what we do with our bodies, but how in the hell could you ever justify such an action to yourself. There are ALWAYS other options. I'm glad I was able to decide that for myself and all, but I am for sure highly against it. Its selfish. Purely selfish.

[Rockindeano]

For the record, I am personally against abortion, but hey, when it comes down to it, it's the woman's body, and it's her choice. Simple.

No...it's not. There's something living inside of her body that needs protection. If there's a woman who is 8 weeks pregnant and I run up to her and decide to play the drum beat to Separate Ways on her stomach with a Louisville Slugger I am no worse than her if she chooses to walk into an abortion clinic. We're doing the EXACT same thing. Killing something unborn, yet LIVING.

Fine. Make you Conservatives a deal..Since there is something inside her that is living and needs protection, then if that's your argument, support health care for every citizen.

It's not any different.

[CatEyes]

Hospitals are required by law to provide health care to all, even illegal immigrants. They sure as hell aren't denied.

What in the hell have you been smoking??

Only subsidized hospitals are required, i.e. "county" hospitals or Public Health Trusts.

In Miami there is only one hospital that is required to see whomever comes in their doors and that is Jackson-Memorial - it is Public Health Trust - and a great teaching hospital - battlefield surgeons train there because of all the gunshot wounds and trauma resulting from violence.

Other hospitals just send people to Jackson - sometimes they don't make it there.

Cat

[Rhiannon]

Healthcare and murder are two different things. Correct me if I'm mistaken.

[ohsherrie]

I'm not saying there aren't extremes on both side RF. I cringe at the thought of partial birth abortions. But, I can envision cases where they may be necessary to save the mother's life.

How is pulling the rest of the head of the already "mostly" born child going to endanger the mother's life. At that point, the cervix is already fully dilated and, according to some sources, the head has already passed through the cervix by the time this gruesome procedure is performed.

Dave, your post makes no sense to me. Having given birth twice, and stood by my daughter twice while she gives birth, I've come to know that the cervix doesn't open until the labor is well in progress. If labor begins naturally then it's not an abortion. If, in such a situation, a decision is made to take the baby rather than let the mother lay there and die in fruitless labor, I don't think you can call that an abortion.

[Saint John]

For the record, I am personally against abortion, but hey, when it comes down to it, it's the woman's body, and it's her choice. Simple.

No...it's not. There's something living inside of her body that needs protection. If there's a woman who is 8 weeks pregnant and I run up to her and decide to play the drum beat to Separate Ways on her stomach with a Louisville Slugger I am no worse than her if she chooses to walk into an abortion clinic. We're doing the EXACT same thing. Killing something unborn, yet LIVING.

Fine. Make you Conservatives a deal..Since there is something inside her that is living and needs protection, then if that's your argument, support health care for every citizen.

It's not any different.

I DO support health care for every citizen. I choose to work. Fuck, McDonalds has outstanding benefits. I have a buddy that's worked there for over 15 years and makes 80k. People think that they're just gonna walk into McDonalds and become the CEO. Stick around a few years, work hard and the possibilities are endless. This is just 1 of hundreds of examples.

[RedWingFan]

I'm not saying there aren't extremes on both side RF. I cringe at the thought of partial birth abortions. But, I can envision cases where they may be necessary to save the mother's life.

How is pulling the rest of the head of the already "mostly" born child going to endanger the mother's life. At that point, the cervix is already fully dilated and, according to some sources, the head has already passed through the cervix by the time this gruesome procedure is performed.

Dave, your post makes no sense to me. Having given birth twice, and stood by my daughter twice while she gives birth, I've come to know that the cervix doesn't open until the labor is well in progress. If labor begins naturally then not an abortion. If, in such a situation, a decision is made to take the baby rather than let the mother lay there and die in fruitless labor, I don't think you can call that an abortion.

Well you'd have to pretend that there's no such thing as a c-section. It's a wonderful tool. That's how my son was born.

[Rick]

Then again they are the party that defends the right to choose shoving scissors in the backs of unborn babies skulls, sucking their brains out and tossing the rest out with the trash. Solely because of their alignment with the National Organization of Women in liberal politics

Come on dude. I defend a woman's right to be who she is and what she wants to do with her body.
So you're perfectly okay with a pregnant woman doing crack, or huffing paint, heroin, damaging that kid for the rest of it's life?

Stop trying to make it so damned vile.

That is exactly what the partial birth abortion procedure is! And your party defends it! There's not one drop of mothers blood spilled!!!! If you saw one performed you know what would run through your mind? "Oh my God, they just killed that baby." I guarantee it!

You defend the party that starts wars based on lies

You mean the lies that were repeated adnauseum for years by BOTH parties?

where over 100,000 innocent people have died

Don't believe those #'s for a second but how many millions of people now live in freedom? Katie Couric just got back and was amazed at the progress there.

You are also part of the GOP who denies health care to citizens

Hospitals are required by law to provide health care to all, even illegal immigrants. They sure as hell aren't denied.[/quote]

Dude, fix your post, I can't figure it out. I'm on like 11 now. [/quote]

[ohsherrie]

I'm not saying there aren't extremes on both side RF. I cringe at the thought of partial birth abortions. But, I can envision cases where they may be necessary to save the mother's life.

How is pulling the rest of the head of the already "mostly" born child going to endanger the mother's life. At that point, the cervix is already fully dilated and, according to some sources, the head has already passed through the cervix by the time this gruesome procedure is performed.

Dave, your post makes no sense to me. Having given birth twice, and stood by my daughter twice while she gives birth, I've come to know that the cervix doesn't open until the labor is well in progress. If labor begins naturally then not an abortion. If, in such a situation, a decision is made to take the baby rather than let the mother lay there and die in fruitless labor, I don't think you can call that an abortion.

Well you'd have to pretend that there's no such thing as a c-section. It's a wonderful tool. That's how my son was born.

RF, I honestly can't see how your comment pertains to what Dave and I were arguing. That is, unless you're saying that in the case of extremely premature labor that's lingering and not producing the required results the mother should have a c-section to bring forth a child that has almost no chance of surviving. But then again, if labor has begun it's not an abortion.

[Natalie]

What the hell are you guys talking about???????? This thread is beginning to make no sense at all.

Partial birth abortions are simply done so the baby will not be born alive-they are often done before the point of viability so even if the baby were born alive it would die shortly after. An abortion done to save the mother's life would be done because the pregnancy itself was endangering the mother's health, therefore, a c-section has nothing to do with it-abortions are not done by c-section.

And, just for the record, the cervix can begin to dilate well before labor starts-this comes from my experience in assisting with the delivery nearly 3,000 babies. Not that it really has anything to do with this arguement, just a little education.

[CatEyes]

I DO support health care for every citizen. I choose to work.

Excuse the fuck out of me. This is the attitude that really pisses me off.

I DO WORK!!!!! GOOD JOB. FULL TIME. HAVE INSURANCE.

AND THEY SCREW ME DAILY.

Between the pharmaceutical companies and the insurance companies and the incompetent providors I have to fightr for survival every fucking day - and work 8 - 10 hours.

ONE med I need is almost $50,000.00 a year. So guess what bright eyes?!?!?!? I don't get to have it!!!!
And that is just the tip of the ice berg

The truly sad/angry part about this is that I am NOT the exception.

There are more and more people in this country like me every day.

And as long as people walk around spouting their politics and religion instead of looking around them and maybe, just maybe, try to determine if there is a way they can help make a change in this world - but there are just too many cowards out there - too comfortable in their own ignorance -

Maybe it is because if they look too long and hard, they see that it might be them some day, and it scares the piss out of them - it's ok - I understand being afraid of your own mortality.

There is always someone who likes to quote the Lizard King at this point: None of us get out of here alive

Cat

[Moon Beam]

You know what folks?
I just came in from the beautiful oudoors to wish a few
of our own well, then I enter this thread and see all kinds
of ugly.......I'm going back outside.

[RedWingFan]

You know what folks?
I just came in from the beautiful oudoors to wish a few
of our own well, then I enter this thread and see all kinds
of ugly.......I'm going back outside.

Sorry Moonie, some need to stand up while everyone else sits down.

[Natalie]

Between the pharmaceutical companies and the insurance companies and the incompetent providors I have to fightr for survival every fucking day - and work 8 - 10 hours.

Not all providers are incompetent. In fact, some of them are even able to spell "providers." If you feel that the providers are incompetent then you must have some knowledge base that qualifies you to assess this. I may even suggest that you continue your education and become an advanced practice nurse or physician yourself so you can provide competent care to those in need of your services.