Why Steve Smith will never return to Journey

[Monker]

99.99999% of the time what Dean say is true and moreso accurate....Stay away from him. He'll crush you and your supposed talk with Smitty.

Oh, please...the entire 'make wves' talk was WRONG. He had no idea what was REALLY going to happen. Everything, and I mean EVERYTHING, and what he has said in interviews, what he has said to other people, etc...ALL of it indicates he has little to no interest in rock music, let alone joining Journey.

Anybody who believes he does is VERY foolish.

[Rick]

He has no interest in the band anymore. And there are others here who have said the same from when they met him as well.

Yep...that has been said many times....In fact, Smith said in interviews following TBF that he wasn't interested in pop music any longer...except for an occasional session type gig.

There is no way I will ever believe he seriously considered joining a band like Journey on some type of permanent basis...But, finsh a tour cuz Deen is ill (or is fired, or whatever), and then record an album and tour again, rinse, wash, repeat...NO WAY. It's not in his nature.

He's even stated that if he had not joined Journey, he would have never been in a rock band. Why would he do so now, at the end of their career?

I'll pose this one Monker. If Perry comes back, and Journey asks Smith to join, I think he would do it.

That's a ridiculous pipe dream, but I think he would under those circumstances. The power of the cheering crowd is huge.

[Monker]

do know that Smith is on record as saying he's not interested in being in a Perryless Journey.

That is NOT the whole of what he said. He said he was interested in doing the REUNION. When Perry left the band it was no longer a 'reunion'. If you take his words in context, he would have felt the same way if Neal left, or Jonathan, maybe even Ross.

He said he set aside some time away from his other projects to do the reunion. When that time expired, he went back to jazz. When he DID go back to it, he found it difficult to make up that lost time away from the genre. Vitial Information and JAZZ is his main focus.

[Monker]

I'll pose this one Monker. If Perry comes back, and Journey asks Smith to join, I think he would do it.

For 1 album and maybe a tour...possibly. But, NOT as a permanent member of the band - NO WAY. He was not even going to do that for TBF. In fact, if you read hte Modern Drummer interview after TBF, it seems to me he approached TBF as a session player, not as a contributing band member. He wasa 'yes man', doing as he was told and was required of him.

[Rick]

I'll pose this one Monker. If Perry comes back, and Journey asks Smith to join, I think he would do it.

For 1 album and maybe a tour...possibly. But, NOT as a permanent member of the band - NO WAY. He was not even going to do that for TBF. In fact, if you read hte Modern Drummer interview after TBF, it seems to me he approached TBF as a session player, not as a contributing band member. He wasa 'yes man', doing as he was told and was required of him.

Agreed. SS has more class in his little finger than..... nothing more needs to be said.

[Journey/Survivor]

I'll pose this one Monker. If Perry comes back, and Journey asks Smith to join, I think he would do it.

For 1 album and maybe a tour...possibly. But, NOT as a permanent member of the band - NO WAY. He was not even going to do that for TBF. In fact, if you read hte Modern Drummer interview after TBF, it seems to me he approached TBF as a session player, not as a contributing band member. He wasa 'yes man', doing as he was told and was required of him.

I may be wrong about this, but back when TBF was about to be released I had heard that Steve Smith was not going to tour for that album with Journey even if the tour hadn't been canceled. What I heard at the time was that Prairie Prince was going to have been the drummer with Journey on that tour.

[STORY_TELLER]

do know that Smith is on record as saying he's not interested in being in a Perryless Journey.

That is NOT the whole of what he said. He said he was interested in doing the REUNION. When Perry left the band it was no longer a 'reunion'. If you take his words in context, he would have felt the same way if Neal left, or Jonathan, maybe even Ross.

I'm sure that's also the case, however, I was referring to what was said by Neal in an interview after Neal and Jon made their final parting move from Perry.

Neal said he asked Smitty to continue on with them and Neal is the one who made the comment about Smith having no desire to be in a Perryless Journey. Or at least that's how the article was written. Who knows? I've seen reporters get things wrong six ways to sunday, so who knows if something was misquoted. Seems to me, Smitty is a classy guy and he could have been being diplomatic in his own interview, you know?

Both statements hold water though. Same result in the answer, but from different points of view.

I believe Smitty has no interest in going back to a rock band as a permanent career choice. However, I do believe he'd record an album from his alumni past (be it Journey or Montrose) and do a tour as long as it stayed fun (and profitable).

[Art Vandelay]

I'll pose this one Monker. If Perry comes back, and Journey asks Smith to join, I think he would do it.

For 1 album and maybe a tour...possibly. But, NOT as a permanent member of the band - NO WAY. He was not even going to do that for TBF. In fact, if you read hte Modern Drummer interview after TBF, it seems to me he approached TBF as a session player, not as a contributing band member. He wasa 'yes man', doing as he was told and was required of him.

Nice work, Monker! You're 100% on, I've read the same stuff in various interviews. I still have the mags buried away in my attic. It was a one and done job for him.

[Art Vandelay]

I'll pose this one Monker. If Perry comes back, and Journey asks Smith to join, I think he would do it.

For 1 album and maybe a tour...possibly. But, NOT as a permanent member of the band - NO WAY. He was not even going to do that for TBF. In fact, if you read hte Modern Drummer interview after TBF, it seems to me he approached TBF as a session player, not as a contributing band member. He wasa 'yes man', doing as he was told and was required of him.

Nice work, Monker! You're 100% on, I've read the same stuff in various interviews. I still have the mags buried away in my attic. It was a one and done job for him.

His quote on playing rock music was "it was an itch that I had, and I scratched it."

[Matthew]

I'll pose this one Monker. If Perry comes back, and Journey asks Smith to join, I think he would do it.

For 1 album and maybe a tour...possibly. But, NOT as a permanent member of the band - NO WAY. He was not even going to do that for TBF. In fact, if you read hte Modern Drummer interview after TBF, it seems to me he approached TBF as a session player, not as a contributing band member. He wasa 'yes man', doing as he was told and was required of him.

I wish Smith had had the same attitude during the ROR sessions....

[Red13JoePa]

Wouldn't've worked, Matto.

The Londin pounding sound is one of my favortie things about ROR. Smitty had the versatility and the virtuosity but perry knew what he wanted on ROR.

[NealIsGod]

I'll pose this one Monker. If Perry comes back, and Journey asks Smith to join, I think he would do it.

For 1 album and maybe a tour...possibly. But, NOT as a permanent member of the band - NO WAY. He was not even going to do that for TBF. In fact, if you read hte Modern Drummer interview after TBF, it seems to me he approached TBF as a session player, not as a contributing band member. He wasa 'yes man', doing as he was told and was required of him.

I wish Smith had had the same attitude during the ROR sessions....

Smith had too much pride to be shit on like that by his bandmates (notice I didn't just call Perry out on that, even though most do). I respect him for that.

[Matthew]

Wouldn't've worked, Matto.

The Londin pounding sound is one of my favortie things about ROR. Smitty had the versatility and the virtuosity but perry knew what he wanted on ROR.

But Smith delivered just fine on the three tracks he did play on. I reckon this had nothing to do with technique and everything to do with Smith's precious attitude.

You can still hear flashes of that attitude when he turns his nose up at rock music and harps on about how complex and technical his jazz projects are. Have you heard the latest Vital information CD? I listened to it expecting this incredible display of virtuoso drumming and...it just never happened. Good drumming to be sure but compared to any Rush record it's pretty underwhelming. And the music itself? Well, I'll try to stay polite and just say it 'isn't to my taste'.

Don't get me wrong - Smith was a fantastic drummer live in Journey - and his work on the TBF album is one of the great drumming performances on any rock album. But let's not talk about the guy the whole time as though he is this pure artistic being who has no ego and chimes with the music of the spheres and all that crap.

[Red13JoePa]

Have you heard the latest Vital information CD?

Bah.

No time for that junk.

[Matthew]

Have you heard the latest Vital information CD?

Bah.

No time for that junk.

[Arkansas]

He has no interest in the band anymore. And there are others here who have said the same from when they met him as well.

Yep...that has been said many times....In fact, Smith said in interviews following TBF that he wasn't interested in pop music any longer...except for an occasional session type gig.

There is no way I will ever believe he seriously considered joining a band like Journey on some type of permanent basis...But, finsh a tour cuz Deen is ill (or is fired, or whatever), and then record an album and tour again, rinse, wash, repeat...NO WAY. It's not in his nature.

He's even stated that if he had not joined Journey, he would have never been in a rock band. Why would he do so now, at the end of their career?

I'll pose this one Monker. If Perry comes back, and Journey asks Smith to join, I think he would do it.

That's a ridiculous pipe dream, but I think he would under those circumstances. The power of the cheering crowd is huge.

And so is the power of a big pay check. Since most others are quoting SS interviews, I'll join in. I remember reading something where SS talked about money. He basicially said that he's done some things that weren't big money makers and others that were very lucrative. My take on that was that although his passion is jazz & doing clinics, Journey was a huge pay check. Based solely on that - the money-in-the-bank-for-a-lifetime type of pay check - if the classic lineup of Journey were to do a 'reunion thing', I believe that Steve Smith wouldn't hesitate to sign on. The potential cash involved (plus ongoing residuals) could not only send his kids to college, but it'd support his jazz band for years to come.

Face it. Money talks. Many people may hate their ex-spouses, but if offered a million bucks, they'd take 'em back for another year.


later~

[ddregs]

I am a huge fan of early Vital Information (the lineup with Jeff Andrews on bass was KILLER), I simply don't love the latest VI records though I saw them live 2 times with the latest lineup (ok, not the very late with Vinnie Valentino on guitar replacing Frank Gambale).
What Steve Smith plays on records like VITALIVE! or Easier Done than Said is absolutely fantastic. No other drummer can play drums like him. A simple display of prowess, please don't add Neil Peart (I am a huge fan of him) here because he can't compare nor play what Smitty does on those records.
What he did with Journey is 1/1000000000th of the things he's able to do. Add to the table the fact he can compose (50/50 , the track , is a great composition, whether or not you like his music).
I was stunned by reading here what Rockin'Deano said about him coming back to Journey for a tour. I subscribe what Monker said, I recall reading something like that on Modern Drummer years ago.
Smitty and Colaiuta were friends and mates studying at Berklee and they became among the best drummers of all times.
Anyway, you can listen to the most amazing chops played by Smitty on:
- GHS1 and GHS2 (Gambale/Hamm/Smith)
- VTT1 and VTT2 (Vital Tech Tones)
- Jean Luc Ponty - Enigmatic Ocean (before playing with Journey)
- Tony MacAlpine - Edge of Insanity (instrumental metal stuff)
These are the records I really appreciate the most w/rgds to drums...

[Monker]

I'll pose this one Monker. If Perry comes back, and Journey asks Smith to join, I think he would do it.

For 1 album and maybe a tour...possibly. But, NOT as a permanent member of the band - NO WAY. He was not even going to do that for TBF. In fact, if you read hte Modern Drummer interview after TBF, it seems to me he approached TBF as a session player, not as a contributing band member. He wasa 'yes man', doing as he was told and was required of him.

I wish Smith had had the same attitude during the ROR sessions....

I don't. He had the right attitude....wanting to be a band member and contributing to the creative process...Not just following the order of, "We want you to sound like this drum machine..."

Perry is the one who had the wrong attitude for ROR.

[STORY_TELLER]

I don't. He had the right attitude....wanting to be a band member and contributing to the creative process...Not just following the order of, "We want you to sound like this drum machine..."

Perry is the one who had the wrong attitude for ROR.

Agreed. ROR is a solid album as is, and I do like it, but it's suffering from Perry's choices of musicianship. Especially the drumming. There's a night and day difference between Why Can't This Night Go on Forever and the other tracks on the album. That's the one track Smith played on where he was allowed to just be Steve Smith, not a drum machine.

I can only imagine what the rest of the album would have sounded like had Perry allowed Journey's signature instrumentals to continue on that album. Much better than what's there I think.

Perry was wrong.

[journeyrock]

I don't. He had the right attitude....wanting to be a band member and contributing to the creative process...Not just following the order of, "We want you to sound like this drum machine..."

Perry is the one who had the wrong attitude for ROR.

Agreed. ROR is a solid album as is, and I do like it, but it's suffering from Perry's choices of musicianship. Especially the drumming. There's a night and day difference between Why Can't This Night Go on Forever and the other tracks on the album. That's the one track Smith played on where he was allowed to just be Steve Smith, not a drum machine.

I can only imagine what the rest of the album would have sounded like had Perry allowed Journey's signature instrumentals to continue on that album. Much better than what's there I think.

Perry was wrong.

Perry has openly admitted that he was wrong on that decision.

[Matthew]

Agreed. ROR is a solid album as is, and I do like it, but it's suffering from Perry's choices of musicianship. Especially the drumming. There's a night and day difference between Why Can't This Night Go on Forever and the other tracks on the album. That's the one track Smith played on where he was allowed to just be Steve Smith, not a drum machine.

I disagree Storyteller. The drumming in WCTNGOF is formulaic power ballad drumming and it sounds just as mechanical as Londin's drumming. If anything Smith sounds most himself on Eyes of A Woman....

I can only imagine what the rest of the album would have sounded like had Perry allowed Journey's signature instrumentals to continue on that album. Much better than what's there I think.

By sigtnature instrumentals...do you mean Schon's solos? I'm with Red on this one in that ROR features some of Schon's best soloing. Or do you mean Jon Cain whose keyboards are all over this album?

[Matthew]

I'll pose this one Monker. If Perry comes back, and Journey asks Smith to join, I think he would do it.

For 1 album and maybe a tour...possibly. But, NOT as a permanent member of the band - NO WAY. He was not even going to do that for TBF. In fact, if you read hte Modern Drummer interview after TBF, it seems to me he approached TBF as a session player, not as a contributing band member. He wasa 'yes man', doing as he was told and was required of him.

I wish Smith had had the same attitude during the ROR sessions....

I don't. He had the right attitude....wanting to be a band member and contributing to the creative process...Not just following the order of, "We want you to sound like this drum machine..."

Perry is the one who had the wrong attitude for ROR.

He was simply told to adapt to the times....which almost every big league rock drummer was doing at that time. Phil Collins being a prime example: heavy use of the snare and experimentation with electronic percussion. But Smith - and it seems you too - believe that he was too good for a mid-80s AOR album. Maybe he was - but equally he was a member of a highly mainstream rock/pop group and was being well-paid to keep it simple - so what did he expect?

Also - complex or loose 70s rock drumming was long out of style in 1986, wasn't it? In fact, the band were even telling Dunbar to keep it simple back in 1978 and when Dunbar threw a diva strop he got fired too and rightly so.

When Smith joined he kept it tight and controlled - and his studio drum tracks on Evolution and Departure are pretty basic. But somewhere along the line his ego took over. True of all the other band members too - but I really don't think Smith was any different.

[Rick]

I'll pose this one Monker. If Perry comes back, and Journey asks Smith to join, I think he would do it.

For 1 album and maybe a tour...possibly. But, NOT as a permanent member of the band - NO WAY. He was not even going to do that for TBF. In fact, if you read hte Modern Drummer interview after TBF, it seems to me he approached TBF as a session player, not as a contributing band member. He wasa 'yes man', doing as he was told and was required of him.

I wish Smith had had the same attitude during the ROR sessions....

I don't. He had the right attitude....wanting to be a band member and contributing to the creative process...Not just following the order of, "We want you to sound like this drum machine..."

Perry is the one who had the wrong attitude for ROR.

He was simply told to adapt to the times....which almost every big league rock drummer was doing at that time. Phil Collins being a prime example: heavy use of the snare and experimentation with electronic percussion. But Smith - and it seems you too - believe that he was too good for a mid-80s AOR album. Maybe he was - but equally he was a member of a highly mainstream rock/pop group and was being well-paid to keep it simple.

Complex or loose 70s rock drumming was long out of style in 1986. In fact, the band were even telling Dunbar to keep it simple back in 1978 and when Dunbar threw a diva strop he got fired too and rightly so. When Smith joined he kept it tight and controlled and Smith's studio drum tracks on Evolution and Departure are pretty basic. But somewhere along the line his ego took over. True of all the other band members too - but I really don't think Smith was any different.

Matthew, your avatar is freaking me the fuck out!!!

[Matthew]

Matthew, your avatar is freaking me the fuck out!!!

Sorry Rick! Just flagging up the greatest hard rock album of all time...

[Monker]

It's not a matter of style. It's a matter of Perry, Cain, and Schon not including Ross and Smith in writing sessions so they could contribute their ideas in an organic way. Instead, they were replaced by machines which can not exactly make any artistic contributions to creative process. ROR is the ONLY Journey album created in such a way.

Are you telling me that Steve Smith should not be valued enough as a band member to be included in sessions and instead should be replaced by a machine and TOLD how to play, instead of contributing from the begining? He was absolutely in the right to be pissed about how he (and Ross) were treated. How humiliating to be a 'member' of the most popular band in the US but be replaced by a machine and your contribution to the 'band' be diminished in such a way.

That was the wrong approach. EVERYBODY admits it, including Perry.

My other point is is that IS how Steve Smith approached TBF - as the 'outside guy', as Perry would say. He did NOT have any vested interest in the band - because he had no intention of making his presence a permanent thing.

I'll pose this one Monker. If Perry comes back, and Journey asks Smith to join, I think he would do it.

For 1 album and maybe a tour...possibly. But, NOT as a permanent member of the band - NO WAY. He was not even going to do that for TBF. In fact, if you read hte Modern Drummer interview after TBF, it seems to me he approached TBF as a session player, not as a contributing band member. He wasa 'yes man', doing as he was told and was required of him.

I wish Smith had had the same attitude during the ROR sessions....

I don't. He had the right attitude....wanting to be a band member and contributing to the creative process...Not just following the order of, "We want you to sound like this drum machine..."

Perry is the one who had the wrong attitude for ROR.

He was simply told to adapt to the times....which almost every big league rock drummer was doing at that time. Phil Collins being a prime example: heavy use of the snare and experimentation with electronic percussion. But Smith - and it seems you too - believe that he was too good for a mid-80s AOR album. Maybe he was - but equally he was a member of a highly mainstream rock/pop group and was being well-paid to keep it simple - so what did he expect?

Also - complex or loose 70s rock drumming was long out of style in 1986, wasn't it? In fact, the band were even telling Dunbar to keep it simple back in 1978 and when Dunbar threw a diva strop he got fired too and rightly so.

When Smith joined he kept it tight and controlled - and his studio drum tracks on Evolution and Departure are pretty basic. But somewhere along the line his ego took over. True of all the other band members too - but I really don't think Smith was any different.

[STORY_TELLER]

I disagree Storyteller. The drumming in WCTNGOF is formulaic power ballad drumming and it sounds just as mechanical as Londin's drumming. If anything Smith sounds most himself on Eyes of A Woman....

Well, we're going to have to agree to disagree there Matt. I say the opposite. There's EMOTION in the drumming on WCTNGOF. The drums on every other song on the album lack style and character (IMO) which I believe was Perry's intent. He wanted this album to be less a Journey album and more a Steve Perry album. I don't know how you can call what Smith did on that track formulaic. I mean formulaic for whom? That's a signature Steve Smith sound brother. So much so Mariah Carey hired him to instill that level of depth to the playing on some of her tracks back in the day. If what Smith does is so formulaic, why hire him over someone else?

By sigtnature instrumentals...do you mean Schon's solos? I'm with Red on this one in that ROR features some of Schon's best soloing. Or do you mean Jon Cain whose keyboards are all over this album?

What I mean is this album had Schon playing second fiddle in the songs. So much so that the Bass was practically the lead instrument throughout the album. ROR was largely a keyboard/bass driven album. So when I say signature instrumentals, I mean the sound of the band Journey as heard (and loved by it's fans) on both Escape and Frontiers.

The special thing about Journey wasn't because any one player was the defining element. It wasn't just about the guitar playing, it wasn't just about the drums, it wasn't just about the singer, etc. It was how these 5 creative artists blended their unique approaches from various backgrounds into the whole. It was that collaboration and compromise which yielded the superior results. This is why Neal Schon in side projects isn't as good as when he's in Journey. Why Steve Perry solo isn't as good as when he's in Journey, etc. They all affected the outcome of the final song which no other 'inspired' band has been able to duplicate on their level.

Granted, ROR was Perry's musical experiment, but you know what? He didn't have the right to do that. Journey wasn't Perry's band of studio musicians backing him. He was a part of a whole. If he wanted to make a solo album then he should have done that. Like I said, I liked the album for what it is, however, history shows a majority of Journey fans thought this was a backward step for them and the sales reflected it.

[yak]

I wish Smith had had the same attitude during the ROR sessions....

ROR should have been a Perry solo album.

Way too many "crying over things past" songs. I don't understand why, if he loved Sherrie so much, he let her walk away.. Unless of course, she wanted to walk away. If the two of them had been happy, maybe he would have rocked more. Then again...maybe not.

As for Steve Smith, I can't imagine him wanting to play with Journey ever again. He has a career with the music he loves and wants to play. Not to mention he was burned when there was no TBF tour, so why would he want to get burned again?

[Matthew]

It's not a matter of style. It's a matter of Perry, Cain, and Schon not including Ross and Smith in writing sessions so they could contribute their ideas in an organic way.

Come off it Monker. We're not talking about some paddy field in Communist China. This was a multi-million dollar organisation with a heirachy. I don't see Smith or Valary's names on the publishing credits for Journeys songs. Sure, they played a part in the arrangements but let's not forget who actually wrote the songs. Perry, Schon and Cain. No wonder that by 1986 they felt they had the right to call the shots....

Instead, they were replaced by machines which can not exactly make any artistic contributions to creative process. ROR is the ONLY Journey album created in such a way.

Of course it was because ROR was the only album recorded in the mid-1980s when drum machines, big simplistic snare drum patterns and heavy keyboards were not only what the radio stations and the market demanded - but also represented a whole new creative approach for traditional rock bands. Time and time again people talk about ROR completely out of the context of its era. Again - why was it that Smith didn't embrace the new approach when other drummers - such as Phil Collins - had no problem with it? Was this really just an issue of Perry not speaking to Smith with enough respect?

Are you telling me that Steve Smith should not be valued enough as a band member to be included in sessions and instead should be replaced by a machine and TOLD how to play, instead of contributing from the begining? He was absolutely in the right to be pissed about how he (and Ross) were treated. How humiliating to be a 'member' of the most popular band in the US but be replaced by a machine and your contribution to the 'band' be diminished in such a way.

Even Perry wasn't involved in the ROR sessions from the beginning. Journey had just had a three year hiatus. Everone had been doing their own thing and most of the band members had major personal problemsas well...illness, death, divorce, financial issues...you name it. Given this climate it's not surprising that the recording sessions weren't exactly like a prayer circle. All Smith had to in this environment do was keep it simple and get well-rewarded for doing so. The band was experimenting with a new approach and the drum machine was just a guide. But like Dunbar before him it seems he found Journey too restrictive for his talents...

That was the wrong approach. EVERYBODY admits it, including Perry.

Perry had admitted it was wrong to fire him. I've not heard him say he regrets the way they set out to record that album. He said he had a vision and went for it. Probably too ruthlessly but "it was the music that mattered". Correct me if I'm wrong though....

My other point is is that IS how Steve Smith approached TBF - as the 'outside guy', as Perry would say. He did NOT have any vested interest in the band - because he had no intention of making his presence a permanent thing.

Those were probably his intentions at the outset... but had Perry decided to commit to the band in 1998 Smith would have stayed on. Well, that's certainly the impression he gave on the BTM...but we've been down this road before haven't we?

[EightyRock]

I read an interview with Smith where he basically blames himself for what happened during ROR. He didn't know how to do what Perry wanted him to do and he was being stubborn about it. He was also having family issues. Personally, I like ROR. It's different, it's more in tune with that era and it's still a Perry, Cain, Schon album. Schon may have been pisses (as usual) during that period, but some of his best guitar solos are done when he and Perry and at odds. It's the old...I'll show ya who can do this in one take and SPLIT!

[Matthew]

Well, we're going to have to agree to disagree there Matt. I say the opposite. There's EMOTION in the drumming on WCTNGOF.

Don't get me wrong, Storyteller. I love the drumming on WCTNGOF. I just don't think it was it that inventive or original. Collins was doing that big, over the top ballad drumming with the huge production as early as 1981 on In The Air Tonight, wasn't he? Nor do I think it was his 'signature sound'. I'd say we can hear that on on Eyes of a Woman where he follows a similar pattern to the drum track on DSB - which really was inventive and unusual for a mainstream rock song.

ROR was largely a keyboard/bass driven album. So when I say signature instrumentals, I mean the sound of the band Journey as heard (and loved by it's fans) on both Escape and Frontiers.

But that was true of almost every rock band in the mid-80s. Take Rush on Power Windows....very keyboard/bass driven with the guitar used only to accentuate certain moments like a horn section would do. The difference between the two bands is that Rush don't have a conservative and unimaginative fan base and they don't get punished for venturing into new territory. Journey on the other hand has and did.....

The special thing about Journey wasn't because any one player was the defining element.

The special thing about Journey - to me anyway - was the combination of Perry, Schon and Cain. The trio are the defining element.

Granted, ROR was Perry's musical experiment, but you know what? He didn't have the right to do that. Journey wasn't Perry's band of studio musicians backing him. He was a part of a whole. If he wanted to make a solo album then he should have done that.

Schon and Cain were experimenting with the new technology even before Perry came on board. Also, they saw how well Street Talk had done and thought this indicated the direction to go on. And Schon and Cain co-wrote all the songs on ROR. It just isn't true that they were just 'backing musicians' who didn't share the same vision for the group as Perry. At the time they all thought it was the most creative and commercial move the band could make. It didn't work out in terms of sales but the three year hiatus was probably far more damaging to the band's success than recording a song like Positive Touch.