OT: Dean's Avatar

[CatEyes]

Between the pharmaceutical companies and the insurance companies and the incompetent providors I have to fightr for survival every fucking day - and work 8 - 10 hours.

In fact, some of them are even able to spell "providers."

That is fine - deflect the point by passive-agressively pointing out a typo.

It does not change a thing.

I do not need to continue my education to become a health care provider - I am in CIS and do data analysis, web development and software design.

I have a very good education and a very healthy I.Q. and am very capable of assessing the the abilities of providers based on first hand experience of mismanagement and misdiagnosis.

As a patient it is my responisibilty to pay attention, keep records, and speak up -

Yes there are competent providers ..... unfortunately there are many who are not.

The health care industry needs to do more oversight.

Cat

[Natalie]

That is fine - deflect the point by passive-agressively pointing out a typo.

I think what you were trying to say was "passive aggressively," but regardless, I don't see how I deflected the point.

I do not need to continue my education to become a health care provider - I am in CIS and do data analysis, web development and software design.

I have a very good education and a very healthy I.Q. and am very capable of assessing the the abilities of providers based on first hand experience of mismanagement and misdiagnosis.

So can you explain to me how you are qualified to determine if a provider has misdiagnosed? I am going to assume that you are going to say that because an ailment was not correctly diagnosed on the first try it was misdiagnosed. What you need to understand is medicine is not black and white. Symptoms are not always illness specific. For example, a headache could mean that you are under too much stress, or you have a brain tumor-it would be insane to expect a provider to screen every patient that complained of a headache for a brain tumor without first screening them for some of the more common causes of a headache.

As a patient it is my responisibilty to pay attention, keep records, and speak up -

Yes there are competent providers ..... unfortunately there are many who are not.

There are some that are not but there are far more that are highly competent. In fact, it has been my experience that incompetent providers are few and far between. If you feel that your provider is incompetent, you should find another instead of classifying all as incompetent.

[Moon Beam]

I'm going back outside

Sorry Moonie, some need to stand up while everyone else sits down.

Ok I may be a dull bulb in the box at times but damn if that wasn't a direct
slap at me Sir.

Your kidding right?.......I have raised kids and taken care
of the elderly in my family for over 12 years.
While my Husband worked full time.
Please make your point clear here as my feathers are starting to ruffle.

[RedWingFan]

I'm going back outside

Sorry Moonie, some need to stand up while everyone else sits down.

Ok I may be a dull bulb in the box at times but damn if that wasn't a direct
slap at me Sir.

Your kidding right?.......I have raised kids and taken care
of the elderly in my family for over 12 years.
While my Husband worked full time.
Please make your point clear here as my feathers are starting to ruffle.

Relax there beamer! Your comment about turning around and going back outside made me crackup!
That's the only reason I put it in bold. If I could afford it I'd let my wife stay home too. Just not an option now.

[Moon Beam]

Ok fella, we be cool, I'll put the fry pan down now.

Just so you know, we can't afford it and I have been looking for work
endlessly for 2 yrs.

Enjoy what's left of your day Sir.

[CatEyes]

As a patient it is my responisibilty to pay attention, keep records, and speak up -

Yes there are competent providers ..... unfortunately there are many who are not.

instead of classifying all as incompetent.

Please re-read the above. At no time did I say that all providers are incompetent.

I am well-aware of how to deal with the problem and have done so several times and will continue to do so.

I realize that it is important to you to defend your profession........ that is honorable it is an important one.

My points have, in general, not been about doctors and nurses - they have been regarding insurance companies, and people who think that the only people with health insurance issues are unemployed or illegals.

I am only asking people to look at that aspect .... and possibly help make a change.

Good evening.

Cat

[Marc S]

conversationpc

To say something like this is really outrageous. You don't know a damn thing about me so you're picking and choosing things that you've seen here and there and have probably taken out of context or didn't really take the time to read in the first place. Ask most of the old-timers here if they think I have a conscience or not. Deano, TNC, Saint John, just about anybody. Just because we disagree on some, or even many, things is no reason to question my integrity. I have very strong beliefs and I will defend them forcefully. That's totally different than being heartless.

Maybe if those views of yours were not so easy to 'pick and choose from' I wouldn't say them? You put you views into the public domain and thats what happens, people react or comment on them. I'm not taking a view on whether you are a good bloke or not, I'm sure you are, but some of your views make my jaw drop. Or are you for censorship too? Can you have it both ways? Why take it so personally when I attack what stems from your obvious political standpoint.

We didn't get trade unions in the uk and the national minimum wage by doffing caps and not opposing views we thought were wrong.

[conversationpc]

Maybe if those views of yours were not so easy to 'pick and choose from' I wouldn't say them? You put you views into the public domain and thats what happens, people react or comment on them. I'm not taking a view on whether you are a good bloke or not, I'm sure you are, but some of your views make my jaw drop. Or are you for censorship too? Can you have it both ways? Why take it so personally when I attack what stems from your obvious political standpoint.

Questioning whether someone has a conscience or not is not a personal attack in your view?

Regardless, you attacked Raiderfan earlier for being "sanctimonious" yet your posts are dripping with it and calling people's character into question because you disagree with their viewpoint. Some of you people on the left apparently don't realize that your views are just as jaw-droppingly unbelievable as you claim ours to be.

[Saint John]

conversationpc

To say something like this is really outrageous. You don't know a damn thing about me so you're picking and choosing things that you've seen here and there and have probably taken out of context or didn't really take the time to read in the first place. Ask most of the old-timers here if they think I have a conscience or not. Deano, TNC, Saint John, just about anybody. Just because we disagree on some, or even many, things is no reason to question my integrity. I have very strong beliefs and I will defend them forcefully. That's totally different than being heartless.

Maybe if those views of yours were not so easy to 'pick and choose from' I wouldn't say them? You put you views into the public domain and thats what happens, people react or comment on them. I'm not taking a view on whether you are a good bloke or not, I'm sure you are, but some of your views make my jaw drop. Or are you for censorship too? Can you have it both ways? Why take it so personally when I attack what stems from your obvious political standpoint.

We didn't get trade unions in the uk and the national minimum wage by doffing caps and not opposing views we thought were wrong.

Trade unions are complete bullshit. Nothing more than organized extortion.

[Red13JoePa]

Then again they are the party that defends the right to choose shoving scissors in the backs of unborn babies skulls, sucking their brains out and tossing the rest out with the trash. Solely because of their alignment with the National Organization of Women in liberal politics

Are you talking about the partial birth abortion? If that is true, that is the biggest abomination that is practiced in 'medicine'. How that isn't illegal is outside of logical thinking. What a horrendous practice.

It is bad.

Barbarically bad.

Here's to "Women's Health," though, I guess.

[Marc S]

Saint John

Trade unions are complete bullshit. Nothing more than organized extortion.

I would expect a simple/blinkered view from you - perhaps you should do as your foot note suggests?

Would be interesting to hear why you think that; but with out any profanities maybe...? Now that would be a test.

[Marc S]

conversationpc

Questioning whether someone has a conscience or not is not a personal attack in your view?

Regardless, you attacked Raiderfan earlier for being "sanctimonious" yet your posts are dripping with it and calling people's character into question because you disagree with their viewpoint. Some of you people on the left apparently don't realize that your views are just as jaw-droppingly unbelievable as you claim ours to be.

I guess thats your opinion too. I have no wish to attack you personally; you're right I don't know you from adam. That said, ones political outlook is well and truly wrapped up in a ones personality, you cannot divorce the two. Where I come from, we say what we like; obviously we don't get down to whether someone's mother may have been less than pure or the like, now that would be personal, but we get absolutely heated. I think the main thing in folks' makeup over here is we just don't get the influence of religion in this country. It's a side show, 10% of the population might occasionally go to church. Yes, there is a wide range of religions but it has little or no effect on policy these days. Our politicians do not have to have to bend over backwards for a few hysterical evangelical right wing zealots as it seems Bush does over here. There is not so much moralising. I recall Raiderfan said if you have children out of wedlock and drop out of school that is a slippery slope to criminality? WTF? That smacks of so much psuedo-religious moralising?

So I guess I am guilty of calling into question someones character as I believe it goes hand in hand with their political outlook. You won't find me being 'Outraged of Nottingham' or whatever, if I have a view I will let you know in no uncertain terms, I won't get offended what ever you lay at my door. As long as you don't insult my mother?

What would be the point of discussion if you didn't think my views are jaw-droppingly unbelievable...?

[conversationpc]

I would expect a simple/blinkered view from you - perhaps you should do as your foot note suggests?

Amazing how, to liberals, opposing views are always "simple". How sanctimonious of you.

Seriously now, unions have lost their lustre over the last few decades. Instead of making working conditions, pay, and benefits for their employees, they are staffed by money-hungry fatcats who are no better than the administrations of the companies their employees work for.

[Rick]

I would expect a simple/blinkered view from you - perhaps you should do as your foot note suggests?

Amazing how, to liberals, opposing views are always "simple". How sanctimonious of you.

Seriously now, unions have lost their lustre over the last few decades. Instead of making working conditions, pay, and benefits for their employees, they are staffed by money-hungry fatcats who are no better than the administrations of the companies their employees work for.

That's the damn truth right there. The union I'm in is about as strong as watered down tea.

[Marc S]

conversationpc

Amazing how, to liberals, opposing views are always "simple". How sanctimonious of you. Laughing

Seriously now, unions have lost their lustre over the last few decades. Instead of making working conditions, pay, and benefits for their employees, they are staffed by money-hungry fatcats who are no better than the administrations of the companies their employees work for.

Touche!

I would actually agree that the unions took a major dent in the 70s. Union power, and I only speak for the UK, got extreme, and Thatcher went to war with the miners and anyone else she could take with her. She prevailed but at such a social cost. Even today, 22 years after the 85/6 miners strike, the divisions are still there. IMO the human cost was not worth it.

In retrospect, had the Callaghan Labour government had the balls to tame some of the more militant unions - with a stillborn plan hatched by the best PM we never had, Barbara Castle, 'In Place Of Strife' was a middle way which wouldn't have resulted in class war and would have upheld the honorable reasons for why trade unions existed in the first place.

I do think some of the best unions in this country have done a good job for their employees particularly in the last 15 years. IMO.

[Panther]

For the record, I am personally against abortion, but hey, when it comes down to it, it's the woman's body, and it's her choice. Simple.

No...it's not. There's something living inside of her body that needs protection. If there's a woman who is 8 weeks pregnant and I run up to her and decide to play the drum beat to Separate Ways on her stomach with a Louisville Slugger I am no worse than her if she chooses to walk into an abortion clinic. We're doing the EXACT same thing. Killing something unborn, yet LIVING.

Yet... How many of the 50 states have statutes on the books to cover this "something living inside of her body that needs protection" in instances of assault on the woman, being hit by a drunk, etc...? While the general public can play roulette with the morality of this issue, VERY few actually push their state legislatures (or the feds for that matter) to put these statutes on the books.

[Rick]

For the record, I am personally against abortion, but hey, when it comes down to it, it's the woman's body, and it's her choice. Simple.

No...it's not. There's something living inside of her body that needs protection. If there's a woman who is 8 weeks pregnant and I run up to her and decide to play the drum beat to Separate Ways on her stomach with a Louisville Slugger I am no worse than her if she chooses to walk into an abortion clinic. We're doing the EXACT same thing. Killing something unborn, yet LIVING.

Yet... How many of the 50 states have statutes on the books to cover this "something living inside of her body that needs protection" in instances of assault on the woman, being hit by a drunk, etc...? While the general public can play roulette with the morality of this issue, VERY few actually push their state legislatures (or the feds for that matter) to put these statutes on the books.

I think abortion is one of the necessary evils. If we didn't have abortion clinics, some would decide to use a coat hanger, then you have two lives at stake.