Def Leppard tour and other thoughts....

[cscott]

Okay – So here's my review of the current Def Leppard, Foreigner, Styx Tour.....

So why am I posting this on the Journey forum... Well, because I think that Journey fans probably cross over into the same fan base, and there are some points to be made that are relevant to Journey's current situation.

In a nutshell, it was a great show!! 3 great bands, lots of hits and memories recalled, and a really great time was had by my girlfriend and I (not to mention the other 15,000 or so screaming fans)

Styx sounded great except for James Young's lead vocals. Tommy shaw was entertaining and energetic for a guy that has played these songs for over 30 years. Todd was quite impressive on the drums, Ricky did a fine job, but for my money, I thought Lawrence Gowan turned in the best performance of the bunch. He nailed Dennis Deyoung's vocals, and was probably the most entertaining one on stage.

In a similar fashion, Kelly Hansen ROCKED on vocals. Prior to the show I had joked about going to see the best Foreigner tribute band on the road given the lack of original members, but I thoroughly enjoyed their set and was amazed at Kelly Hansen's vocal prowess. I saw Foreigner many years ago with Lou Gramm, and I can honestly say that Kelly nailed “Jukebox Hero” way better than Lou ever did. (live at least) Kelly Hansen gets my vote for best performance of the night.

As for Def Leppard...well, I enjoyed their set, but I have mixed feelings about them. Nice production, lots of video footage, great set list. They played quite a few songs that are a bit deeper into their catalog than I would have predicted, but...here it comes... I am pretty sure that the band is getting a lot of “electronic assistance” if you know what I mean. I know a lot of people will get fired up when I suggest this, but in my opinion, there's no way Joe Elliot performed all of his vocals live. In fact I would estimate that 30% or more of the lead vocals that the audience heard were samples. First of all, the sonic quality of his vocals changed often throughout many songs. His voice would sound one way during the verses, and then completely different in tone and mix level during the choruses or any high parts. In fact, on at least on occasion, he was walking back to the drum riser with the mic held at chest level and yet his “vocals” were still coming through. Perhaps the most telling part of the show that supports my belief was during the acoustic break when they played “2 Steps Behind” and “Bringing on the Heartache”. For this brief portion of the show, all the vocals were live, and it was obvious. They sounded good, but not perfect, and Joe struggled on many parts that are not that high. During the chorus of “Bringing on the Heartache”, The band didn't even attempt to sing it, and instead let the audience take over. Now granted, one could argue that that move was done simply as a matter of audience participation, but I think it was because there was no way they could hide behind the fact that Joe couldn't do it. They ended “Heartache” by going electric at the solo and last chorus, and then suddenly, Joe could nail all of the highest notes again. Hmmmm. He struggles with the verses that are much lower in pitch, but then can hit notes in the chorus once the full band is playing again? I'm skeptical. My theory is that it's no secret that Def Leppard plays along with a click track because a lot of the percussion parts are automated not only because Rick Allen is missing a limb, but also to sound like the multi-layered parts on the original recording and to match the video footage on screen. (hence the HUGE headphones on Rick Allen. I think that at some point along the way the band decided, “ Hey, if we're going to be a slave to a machine anyways, we might as well add a few more parts in there to sound like the CD and help out Joe too” Just my opinion, if you've seen the current tour, tell me what you think.

So how is this at all relevant to Journey? I left the show reminded of something crucial that is oftentimes forgotten when everyone discusses Journey and their future. And that is simply this. By far, the audience didn't care who was onstage. They just want to hear the songs and have a good time. I didn't hear anybody saying - “Hey, that's not Dennis singing Grand Illusion” or “Wait a minute !!! Where's Lou Gramm?” Quite the contrary. The place was packed with happy concertgoers who felt as though they got their moneys worth as long as the songs sounded more or less how they remembered them. And personally, after seeing Joe Elliot's performance, I would prefer to see them hire a new guy that could really do the songs justice than sit there and wonder if Def Leppard has become the Ashley Simpson of pop metal.

I know a lot of people on this board are pissed about the whole JSS thing, and rightfully so because of the way it was handled. But keep this in mind. I think that Journey knows what pays the bills, and it isn't making new music. It is “recreating” the past, and while JSS did a great job and is a talented singer and a great guy, he is more of a hard rock/metal singer than a pop crooner. He can impersonate it upon demand, but his natural abilities lie elsewhere.

Which brings us to Arnel. This kids got the goods. Personally, I think that he may be one of the most talented vocalists out there right now, and I'm glad he was discovered. His range, tone, and especially his ability to mimic other singers is unreal. For God's sakes, the guy can do Kenny Loggins, and then turn around and do Aerosmith or The Police without missing a beat. And all of this while being on You Tube with a marginal band and camcorder sound quality. Imagine what he would sound like with a great band and a stadium PA. I think he will surprise a lot of people and like I said before, the vast majority of the audience won't care who is onstage. As long as the songs are faithfully reproduced with a bit of enthusiasm, Journey will continue to have a successful touring career. I know that there is skepticism about his stage presence and his nationality fitting in with what is “ an American band”, but I offer you this. What is more “American” than someone coming to our country seeking success and a better life? What is more “American” than the possibility of dreams coming true? This is the land of opportunity, and if Arnel gets the gig which looks like he already may have, then he will have lived the “American” experience to a higher degree than most of us.

[Saint John]

Def Leppard does what it takes to continue to tour. I really believe that Joe Elliott does as much singing as he possibly can without hurting the sound the fans expect to hear and the rest is "technology." He certainly sings enough for me to be satisfied and the fact that there is continued demand, and they continue to tour for their fans, has my deepest respect. I wish other singers chose to do this...namely Steve Perry.

[Rockindeano]

I am pretty sure that the band is getting a lot of “electronic assistance” if you know what I mean. I know a lot of people will get fired up when I suggest this, but in my opinion, there's no way Joe Elliot performed all of his vocals live.

No shit. I have said this for years now.

[Aaron]

Elliot has been getting a lot of help for sometime now. In Indy last year, it was easy to tell Joe was not hitting the high notes, not even in the ball park. They had help on backing vocals and Joe had help on lead vocals. I'd rather see them pull a Delp and have someone live covering instead of tapes. That's a respectable way to approach it. I'm not sure there's much difference between what Journey did and what Def Lep does now.

[Rhiannon]

Vocal assistance was obviously prevalent at the show in Charlotte last month, but no one cared. The show rocked, the atmosphere was great. And in the end that's the main reason I attend concerts... socializing and atmosphere. Joe is still frickin awesome. Assistance or not, dude is cool as shit.

[SF-Dano]

So how is this at all relevant to Journey? I left the show reminded of something crucial that is oftentimes forgotten when everyone discusses Journey and their future. And that is simply this. By far, the audience didn't care who was onstage. They just want to hear the songs and have a good time. I didn't hear anybody saying - “Hey, that's not Dennis singing Grand Illusion” or “Wait a minute !!! Where's Lou Gramm?” Quite the contrary. The place was packed with happy concertgoers who felt as though they got their moneys worth as long as the songs sounded more or less how they remembered them.

I agree with this. This has seemed to be the overall sentiment of the crowds at the several Journey shows I have seen since 2001. Whether it was Augeri, JSS, or Deen on a few songs, the casual fan as well as some of us die hards loved it. As for Arnel, I have not heard him. If he can communicate with the crowd and sing the material well, that is all it will take.

As a fan, I regret the opportunities that will be missed with the departure of JSS. And I understand that, from what we were all hearing (on this board) at the time, his firing makes little to no sense. However, for the casual fan and concert goer, this is not going to make a bit of difference, that is as long as the "new" guy can pull the vocals off.

(disclaimer: I don't have access to YouTube at work and am on dial up at home so that would take forever. But I respect the opinion of those on this board that say Arnel can pull this off.)

[Indyjoe]

I know a lot of people on this board are pissed about the whole JSS thing, and rightfully so because of the way it was handled. But keep this in mind. I think that Journey knows what pays the bills, and it isn't making new music. It is “recreating” the past, and while JSS did a great job and is a talented singer and a great guy, he is more of a hard rock/metal singer than a pop crooner. He can impersonate it upon demand, but his natural abilities lie elsewhere.

Listen to Jeff's solo material - this is not true. He CAN do many things, but that doesn't mean that is all that he is.

~Wendy

[WalrusOct9]

The difference here is that Styx and Foreigner are relatively faceless bands.

People know Dennis DeYoung's name, and to a lesser extent, Lou Gramm's...but I doubt any casual fan would recognize them on the street randomly. DeYoung and Gramm weren't personalities or celebrities the way Perry is. Perry wasn't ALL of Journey, but he was the voice, and EVERYONE knows who he is, even the non-fans.

Foreigner had some good singles, but no offense, they weren't particularly unique...they were doing the same thing a lot of other bands at the time were doing...but without a vocalist as distinct as Perry or Brad Delp, and without any instrumentalists as renowned as, say, the guys in Toto. So you could replace them with competent players, and a quality singer, and no one will notice. Styx, IMO, was an even more faceless band. They have a sound, but not really any distinct personalities that come across to the casual fan or radio listener.

Perry is up there with Bono, Mercury, Axl Rose...guys who defined the sound, face, and personality of their respective bands, and everyone knows it. DeYoung and Gramm never came close to reaching that point, and so I think it's easier for Styx and Foreigner to continue. People will still go to hear Journey's dirty dozen, but they're going to be a little confused seeing a different guy singing every single year, none of whom is Steve Perry.

[Lady Luck]

We saw them in Irvine. This was our 7th show in 2 years and while it was great hearing Excitable, Switch 625, Another Hit and Run, and Mirror Mirror, songs we hadn't heard the past 6 shows, we were bored. Hearing the same set list is getting old. Foreigner was okay...the new singer is good, but I just couldn't get into their performance. Styx rocked...I enjoyed them the most.

[Ratgirl]

We saw them in Irvine. This was our 7th show in 2 years and while it was great hearing Excitable, Switch 625, Another Hit and Run, and Mirror Mirror, songs we hadn't heard the past 6 shows, we were bored. Hearing the same set list is getting old. Foreigner was okay...the new singer is good, but I just couldn't get into their performance. Styx rocked...I enjoyed them the most.

I actually liked Foreigner.. as for Styx well, I didnt know very many of their songs.

Oh good grief.. sadly I was falling asleep during Lepp.
I think the weekend killed it for me.

[Red13JoePa]

Def Leppard does what it takes to continue to tour. I really believe that Joe Elliott does as much singing as he possibly can without hurting the sound the fans expect to hear and the rest is "technology." He certainly sings enough for me to be satisfied and the fact that there is continued demand, and they continue to tour for their fans, has my deepest respect. I wish other singers chose to do this...namely Steve Perry.

I've got no problem with this whatsoever, either, and I actually enjoy the way the music on Yeah adapted to Joe Elliot's evolving/maturing vox.

[Rockindeano]

The difference here is that Styx and Foreigner are relatively faceless bands.

People know Dennis DeYoung's name, and to a lesser extent, Lou Gramm's...but I doubt any casual fan would recognize them on the street randomly. DeYoung and Gramm weren't personalities or celebrities the way Perry is. Perry wasn't ALL of Journey, but he was the voice, and EVERYONE knows who he is, even the non-fans.

Foreigner had some good singles, but no offense, they weren't particularly unique...they were doing the same thing a lot of other bands at the time were doing...but without a vocalist as distinct as Perry or Brad Delp, and without any instrumentalists as renowned as, say, the guys in Toto. So you could replace them with competent players, and a quality singer, and no one will notice. Styx, IMO, was an even more faceless band. They have a sound, but not really any distinct personalities that come across to the casual fan or radio listener.

Perry is up there with Bono, Mercury, Axl Rose...guys who defined the sound, face, and personality of their respective bands, and everyone knows it. DeYoung and Gramm never came close to reaching that point, and so I think it's easier for Styx and Foreigner to continue. People will still go to hear Journey's dirty dozen, but they're going to be a little confused seeing a different guy singing every single year, none of whom is Steve Perry.

Excellent post.

[Indyjoe]

Def Leppard does what it takes to continue to tour. I really believe that Joe Elliott does as much singing as he possibly can without hurting the sound the fans expect to hear and the rest is "technology." He certainly sings enough for me to be satisfied and the fact that there is continued demand, and they continue to tour for their fans, has my deepest respect. I wish other singers chose to do this...namely Steve Perry.

I've got no problem with this whatsoever, either, and I actually enjoy the way the music on Yeah adapted to Joe Elliot's evolving/maturing vox.

Ditto!! I see Leppard every possible chance I get(and have since I was 15), most recently last weekend in Irvine. They sounded great to me.

~Wendy

[Red13JoePa]

The difference here is that Styx and Foreigner are relatively faceless bands.

People know Dennis DeYoung's name, and to a lesser extent, Lou Gramm's...but I doubt any casual fan would recognize them on the street randomly. DeYoung and Gramm weren't personalities or celebrities the way Perry is. Perry wasn't ALL of Journey, but he was the voice, and EVERYONE knows who he is, even the non-fans.

Excellent post.

Disrespectfully disagree.

Classic misnomer overrating Perry's recognizability. Walking down the street he's no more or less recognizeable than Gramm, DeIdiot, Cronin, Delp, Bobby Kimball, Jimi Jamison, etc....