Raiderfan meets Chelsea Clinton

[Marc S]

conversationpc

I'll let Raiderfan respond to the rest of your comments since I haven't been involved in it but your comments regarding those who have faith in God are dripping with as much "Holier than thou" attitude as anything you claim Raiderfan has said.

So you can see both sides then. Thats good. Kind of figured you'd come running to his rescue Dave.

[strangegrey]

There is no point in arguing this with you RF, or with anyone else who is still ignorant or deluded enough to still be supporting Bush. You are the people who shamed this country by voting that lying bastard into the White House twice and you still can't (or won't) see (or admit) your mistake.

I'm outta this conversation. It's a waste of time.

Translation. I have no facts to back up my accusations! OUT!!!!

+1 Sorry....if Al Gore were running this country on 9/11, we'd be FAR worse off now. It might be easy for you to follow the smear machine that the mainstream media has put into full effect on GWB since the day he took orafice (something that wouldn't have happened if fucking hair-piece actually succeeded in stealing the election in 2000)....

The fact of the matter is that you show your true colors with the above post. You're still pissed that your stick in the mud shit-for-brains candidate wasn't successful in trying to sue his way into the presidency in 2000.

[Marc S]

strangegrey

+1 Sorry....if Al Gore were running this country on 9/11, we'd be FAR worse off now.

Really very interested how you, as an American citizen, work that one out?

[RedWingFan]

Bill Clinton was good for the US, the UK and good generally for the rest of the world.

How? By doing nothing against the spread of terrorism over his term? All he could muster was a bombing of an asparine factory on the eve of his grand jury testimony. Somalia? Giving nukes to North Korea??? Everything went smoothly just cleaning up the bits and pieces while Osama and his crew went undisturbed, and he left office with high approval ratings. You're right Bill wins.

- Gore was robbed of the 2000 election in Bush's fat-fuck little brother's backyard.

I'm sorry I try to refrain from name calling but you are a complete idiot!!! It's not name calling if it's true is it? At no time did Al Gore even lead in Florida. Even when the media called the state for Gore, Bush was well ahead in voting. Even after the "moving of the goalposts" after the vote. He still lost the recount even after successfully having military absentee ballots discounted. You are embarrasing.

- Iraq was a done deal years ago - any WMD 'intelligence', good, bad or indifferent was just a smoke screen

Pull up a transcript of Bush's speech when he announced why we are going to war. I think you'll find ALOT of reasons, which included multiple UN resolution violations. Resolutions that Sadaam agreed to after we left Iraq in the Gulf war. That in itself is reason enough to go back in. Of course an appeaser like you won't agree.

even Tony Blair was laughed at and it was his downfall, being seen as Bush's poodle.

Not surprising if there are many like you there. Spain turned tail and voted out their leadership after the bombings there. So unfortunately you're only 2nd inline to become France II. Sorry.

- Even Colin Powell got pissed at being a pawn.

Who made Colin Powell the all knowing? I'm sure you were a big CP fan while he was in the administration right?

- Iraq is an absolute mess and has made an unstable region many times more precarious.

Your opinion or your hopes? Can't tell.

- The only people making out of this is Haliburton and other Bush-related companies.

The freedom of the Iraqi people means nothing to you? Why cuz they're not white? Not British? Don't speak English? Bottom line is most are glad Sadaam is gone, but what do they matter?

- The greatest shame is that young men with full lives ahead of them are being needlessly slaughtered

Don't demean our soldiers like that. They volunteered to go. Even after the war started, many went and signed up, because they felt that the war on terrorism is important to the safety and future of their families.

along with hundreds of thousands of Iraqi women and children.

I hope you're not implying coalition forces here. I hope you're refering to terrorists using Iraqi women and children as shields here, as our own Carlitto posted through Nora a while ago. Now is a perfect time for you to start in with US torture of terrorist and of the Geneva conventions, which terrorists don't come close to falling under, for the above reason first and foremost.

And you vote for this, you justify this and you dare to have that bullshit signoff line on your posts that suggests, like the Jehovah Witnesses that you will be saved, that somehow God and Jesus will salve your conscience and you will not be touched by the results of this mess? Holier than thou doesn't even come close.

Dave already came to my rescue and got this one for me. Your av alone exposes you for the jackass that you are. Dave and I just make it a good time for everyone else by highlighting it!

[Marc S]

RaiderFan
How? By doing nothing against the spread of terrorism over his term? All he could muster was a bombing of an asparine factory on the eve of his grand jury testimony. Somalia? Everything went smoothly just cleaning up the bits and pieces while Osama and his crew went undisturbed, and he left office with high approval ratings. You're right Bill wins.

Bill Clinton encouraged dialogue throughout the world, he talked to people, he was a true diplomat. Bush did nothing, furthermore Bush allowed the whole Bin Laden clan to leave the US. He tried to build bridges not act like John Wayne.

RaiderFan
You are a complete idiot!!! At no time did Al Gore even lead in Florida. Even when the media called the state for Gore, Bush was well ahead in voting. Even after the "moving of the goalposts" after the vote. He still lost the recount even after successfully having military absentee ballots discounted. You are embarrasing.

Call me what you like, you pompous git, it matters not a jot.You missed the whole point of my post, fool. This is how the BBC (arguably the most impartial newsgathering organisation in the world) and indeed most of the world sees that Bush victory in 2000. You just swallow what you want - look no further than yourself for 'embarrassing'

RaiderFan
Pull up a transcript of Bush's speech when he announced why we are going to war. I think you'll find ALOT of reasons, which included multiple UN resolution violations. Resolutions that Sadaam agreed to after we left Iraq in the Gulf war. That in itself is reason enough to go back in. Of course an appeaser like you won't agree.

Now you really are naive. Bush didn't give a fuck about the UN or any resolutions. He ignored them and decided to go in. Bush just shammed along with the UN until it was time - all decided years in advance. Come on, how many fairy tales do you believe?

RaiderFan
Who made Colin Powell the all knowing? I'm sure you were a big CP fan while he was in the administration right?

Not a fan particularly, just couldn't understand why a man who seemed to be a level-headed kind of guy and probably a natural democrat ended up being shat on by his own administration - again, you missed the point.

RaiderFan
The freedom of the Iraqi people means nothing to you? Why cuz their not white? Bottom line is most are glad Sadaam is gone.

How are the Iraqi people free? Free to have a country that is in a continual state of civil war with no end in sight. And before you get on your soapbox, the Saddam regime was no better but most Iraqis think it is worse than before, they might be glad Saddam has gone but their day-to-day lives are certainly worse. Once the coalition pull out it really will be a free for all with mostly innocents taking the brunt.

RaiderFan
Don't demean our soldiers like that. They volunteered to go. Even after the war started, they went and signed up, because they felt that the war on terrorism is important to the safety and future of their families.

Do not dare to pull that bullshit line and take it out of context. I have friends who are out there fighting alongside US troops. Whether they believe in the war or not is irrelevant - my point is if the war had not been pushed by Bush, those soldiers who are now dead would still be alive, the same with the civilians. You can use that 'War on Terrorism' crap to cover all the cracks in your poxy argument - do not aim it at me. The whole situation is far more sophisticated and well you know it.

RaiderFan
I hope you're not implying coalition forces here. I hope you're refering to terrorists using Iraqi women and children as shields here, as our own Carlitto posted through Nora a while ago. Now is a perfect time for you to start in with US torture of terrorist and of the Geneva conventions, which terrorists don't come close to falling under.

You really have an irritating penchant for reading just about everything wrong. I am referring to the human costs. Hundreds of thousands of civilians killed in this war. I have no doubt coalition weapons along with insurgent bombs caused these. The point is, retard, that they are more unnessesary deaths. Carlitto (you mentioned him) along with other US and British servicemen is doing a job they chose to do; soldiers join the military knowing they may well have to pay the ultimate price. Whilst I still beleive we were right to rid the world of right wing fascism in world war 2 I could not justify my son or daughter losing their life to secure oil fields for the West.

Dave already came to my rescue and got this one for me. Your av alone exposes you for the jackass that you are. Dave and I just make it a good time for everyone else by highlighting it!

I don't think he did rescue you, please do defend yourself. Mission accomplished with my avatar, I love it that you hate it - it gets the point over.

And if, indeed, you are so driven, and want to 'free' the Iraqi people, go and enlist and get yourself out there. No, thought not, gosh, you might get shot at. In the meantime quit preaching.

[conversationpc]

conversationpc

I'll let Raiderfan respond to the rest of your comments since I haven't been involved in it but your comments regarding those who have faith in God are dripping with as much "Holier than thou" attitude as anything you claim Raiderfan has said.

So you can see both sides then. Thats good. Kind of figured you'd come running to his rescue Dave.

...and I could point out how atheists play the part of a circus monkey in just the same way. Big deal.

[Tom Jrnyfn]

There is no point in arguing this with you RF, or with anyone else who is still ignorant or deluded enough to still be supporting Bush. You are the people who shamed this country by voting that lying bastard into the White House twice and you still can't (or won't) see (or admit) your mistake.

I'm outta this conversation. It's a waste of time.

You and anyone who loyally follows ANY political party is to blame what is wrong with this country.

Government and ALL politicians are failing and should be executed.

[conversationpc]

Mission accomplished with my avatar, I love it that you hate it - it gets the point over.

I don't get the whole thing with the avatar. I know it's supposed to look like Bush but it looks more like Johnny Carson to me.

[RedWingFan]

RaiderFan
How? By doing nothing against the spread of terrorism over his term? All he could muster was a bombing of an asparine factory on the eve of his grand jury testimony. Somalia? Everything went smoothly just cleaning up the bits and pieces while Osama and his crew went undisturbed, and he left office with high approval ratings. You're right Bill wins.

Bill Clinton encouraged dialogue throughout the world, he talked to people, he was a true diplomat.

Yes, he talked to North Korea and was swindled into giving them nukes. Nice job! What a diplomat! He talked and talked between attacks. Are you serious?

Call me what you like, you pompous git, it matters not a jot.You missed the whole point of my post, fool. This is how the BBC (arguably the most impartial newsgathering organisation in the world) and indeed most of the world sees that Bush victory in 2000. You just swallow what you want - look no further than yourself for 'embarrassing'

impartial? I was watching the election coverage and was up all night that night. I don't care how the rest of the world sees it. I don't care about the prism or filter you see it through. I care about what actually happened!

Now you really are naive. Bush didn't give a fuck about the UN or any resolutions. He ignored them and decided to go in. Bush just shammed along with the UN until it was time - all decided years in advance. Come on, how many fairy tales do you believe?

Ah, now you're a mindreader too. Even though Bush stated all these reasons. He really only wanted one thing. OIL!!! That's why we now have that pipeline of crude to the US and are currently paying .24 cents a gallon like Kuwait

How are the Iraqi people free?

Oh I don't know. Free to elect a leader of their choice to determine their future as a nation?

Free to have a country that is in a continual state of civil war with no end in sight.

There is no civil war. The factions are coming together to fight terrorism themselves.

And before you get on your soapbox, the Saddam regime was no better but most Iraqis think it is worse than before, they might be glad Saddam has gone but their day-to-day lives are certainly worse.

Well then if they truly want to live under Saddam like brutality. They're free to put one on the ballot, aren't they. Why don't you let them decide for themselves?

RaiderFan
Don't demean our soldiers like that. They volunteered to go. Even after the war started, they went and signed up, because they felt that the war on terrorism is important to the safety and future of their families.

Do not dare to pull that bullshit line and take it out of context. I have friends who are out there fighting alongside US troops. Whether they believe in the war or not is irrelevant - my point is if the war had not been pushed by Bush, those soldiers who are now dead would still be alive, the same with the civilians.

Well some things are dying for Marc. Some believe stopping radical Islam and terrorism is. It's either now or later. Whether passifists like you believe it or not. It's not gonna go away by itself.

RaiderFan
I hope you're not implying coalition forces here. I hope you're refering to terrorists using Iraqi women and children as shields here, as our own Carlitto posted through Nora a while ago. Now is a perfect time for you to start in with US torture of terrorist and of the Geneva conventions, which terrorists don't come close to falling under.

You really have an irritating penchant for reading just about everything wrong. I am referring to the human costs. Hundreds of thousands of civilians killed in this war.

And those same Kurds gassed by Saddam are just those crazy Iraqi's going about business as usual! Those crazy Iraqis literally cooked and served on platters to serve to family members for defying terrorists. Just the usual Iraqi casualty.

And if, indeed, you are so driven, and want to 'free' the Iraqi people, go and enlist and get yourself out there. No, thought not, gosh, you might get shot at. In the meantime quit preaching.

You know, as 9/11 happened I did consider enlisting. I considered the home (in my gated community) that I would have to sell, because I lived alone. I had just met my eventual wife. I had to weigh the pro's of serving with the con's of losing everything I had established and abandoning the prospect of my wife. I decided to stay. That is one of the reasons I get so enraged at people who besmirch our soldiers, our mission and their commander. They are a rare breed. They do what 99% of us would not. I owe my freedom to them. That's why I waste my time arguing with you to defend them, the mission and their commander!

[Rick]

A blonde decides to take up a side job as handywoman. She goes to a house, introduces herself and asks if they need anything repaired. The man of the house says "Well, we could sure use our porch painted, how much would you charge?" The blonde thinks for a minute and says "50 dollars." The man thinking this being quite the bargain, agrees. The man takes the blonde to the garage and shows her everything she will need to complete the job.

The man's wife, not wanting to buy into all of the 'blondes are stupid' rhetoric, mentions that she hopes the blonde knows that the porch goes all the way around the house.

In about 2 hours, the blonde knocks on the door and states that she has finished the job. She also made comment that there was enough paint left over that she applied a second coat. Then said "By the way, that's not a Porch, it's a Lexus."

[Marc S]

RaiderFan
You know, as 9/11 happened I did consider enlisting. I considered the home (in my gated community) that I would have to sell, because I lived alone. I had just met my eventual wife. I had to weigh the pro's of serving with the con's of losing everything I had established and abandoning the prospect of my wife. I decided to stay. That is one of the reasons I get so enraged at people who besmirch our soldiers, our mission and their commander. They are a rare breed. They do what 99% of us would not. I owe my freedom to them. That's why I waste my time arguing with you to defend them, the mission and their commander!

Whatever. I'm sure you had your reasons, but (to quote you) bottom line you didn't do it. I don't pretend to make out I wrestled with my concsience...

Soldiers are indeed a different breed but not particularly in the uber-patriot way you go on about; I know guys who absolutely live for bonafide action, they see it as a once in a lifetime opportunity to put all that training into the ultimate practical application i.e hand to hand fighting. They don't give two hoots for the political landscape and reasons for engagement. They are getting a chance to put their talents into practice. They however, are soldiers, not further up the command chain. As I always think, if we did it the old way and Bush or Blair had to lead them into battle aboard the leading Abrahms (spelling?) there would never be a fucking war.

No-one is 'besmirching' your soldiers, get off your damn high horse.

No further on are we? So as it is midnight I will retire to my bed and await the next inflamatory blinkered diatribe. A demain.

[RedWingFan]

RaiderFan
You know, as 9/11 happened I did consider enlisting. I considered the home (in my gated community) that I would have to sell, because I lived alone. I had just met my eventual wife. I had to weigh the pro's of serving with the con's of losing everything I had established and abandoning the prospect of my wife. I decided to stay. That is one of the reasons I get so enraged at people who besmirch our soldiers, our mission and their commander. They are a rare breed. They do what 99% of us would not. I owe my freedom to them. That's why I waste my time arguing with you to defend them, the mission and their commander!

Whatever. I'm sure you had your reasons, but (to quote you) bottom line you didn't do it. I don't pretend to make out I wrestled with my concsience...

I'm not pretending either you ass! Everyone knows you are an pacifist! It's your ilk that used diplomacy to give in to Hitler til he showed up in your backyard.

Soldiers are indeed a different breed but not particularly in the uber-patriot way you go on about

Amazing.

I know guys who absolutely live for bonafide action, they see it as a once in a lifetime opportunity to put all that training into the ultimate practical application i.e hand to hand fighting.

They sound like animals....Killing machines.

They don't give two hoots for the political landscape and reasons for engagement. They are getting a chance to put their talents into practice.

Hmmmm....

No-one is 'besmirching' your soldiers

No????

They however, are soldiers, not further up the command chain. As I always think, if we did it the old way and Bush or Blair had to lead them into battle aboard the leading Abrahms (spelling?) there would never be a fucking war.

We can't trust terrorists to not hide behind women and children or not hide among civilians and we're supposed to send our leaders to lead the troops like in the 1700's?
Uh... sorry to inform you but it kinda looks like the surge is working.
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/COL248131.htm

[Carrington]

RaiderFan, don't beat you head against a brick wall, it's always the brave, and strong that lead the rest....something that Marc S doesn't even have a clue about....just be thankfull that there are brave British soldiers that do the hard work like our own.....

and that he's over there and doesn't have a vote here!....

[Marc S]

Carrington

RaiderFan, don't beat you head against a brick wall, it's always the brave, and strong that lead the rest....something that Marc S doesn't even have a clue about....just be thankfull that there are brave British soldiers that do the hard work like our own.....

and that he's over there and doesn't have a vote here!....

Don't make me laugh. Its not a Hollywood blockbuster, its reality.

[johnroxx]

When Clinton was first elected President, several of us joked that we could hardly find anyone here that would admit to voting for him, and this was true. Of the few I could find, the most perplexing reason some gave was, "I just voted for him to get him out of Arkansas". Gee, THANKS, guys!

I must have missed that. I voted for him proudly and I'm still proud of him. The only president I've ever been ashamed of is the lying son of a bitch that's in the White House now.

Clinton denied having had "a sexual affair," "sexual relations," or "a sexual relationship" with Lewinsky while under oath, and on 26 January 1998 claimed "I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Miss Lewinsky" in a nationally televised White House news conference.

And THAT statement is just dripping with veracity...LOL!

;^)

[johnroxx]

I always thought that "Hanging Chad" would have made an awesome name for a porn star.

CLASSIC!!!

;^)

[johnroxx]

Well, the unthinkable has happened.

With his expert, well-informed beat-down of the UK whiner, this guy calling himself RaiderFan has earned my utmost respect.

And this comes from a life-long Charger fan, BTW.

Bravo, my friend.

;^)

[Marc S]

johnroxx

Well, the unthinkable has happened.

With his expert, well-informed beat-down of the UK whiner, this guy calling himself RaiderFan has earned my utmost respect.

And this comes from a life-long Charger fan, BTW.

Bravo, my friend.

'Beat down' is a term which suggests anything but debate, discussion and argument, but then why would I expect anything else? The UK Whiner, Beaten-down?.....dream on, boy.

[mistiejourney]

Earlier this week, RaiderFan met Chelsea Clinton, they were able to talk for quite some time and ask a lot of questions of each other. During the course of the conversation, Chelsea asked RaiderFan who he believed were the most dangerous people in the world. His response- "Osama, Obama, and Yo Mama."

My first spit take of the morning!

[ohsherrie]

When Clinton was first elected President, several of us joked that we could hardly find anyone here that would admit to voting for him, and this was true. Of the few I could find, the most perplexing reason some gave was, "I just voted for him to get him out of Arkansas". Gee, THANKS, guys!

I must have missed that. I voted for him proudly and I'm still proud of him. The only president I've ever been ashamed of is the lying son of a bitch that's in the White House now.

Clinton denied having had "a sexual affair," "sexual relations," or "a sexual relationship" with Lewinsky while under oath, and on 26 January 1998 claimed "I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Miss Lewinsky" in a nationally televised White House news conference.

And THAT statement is just dripping with veracity...LOL!

;^)

It didn't get thousands of people killed for oil and a personal vendetta.


Marc - You might as well leave them to the chest beating and fist pumping. People like this can never admit they're wrong.

They've chosen to ignore:

Former Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neal
Former Terrorism Advisor Richard Clarke
Former CIA Director George Tenet
Former Secretary of State Colin Powell
Former Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan

And others whose name I can't think of at this time

Who have all come away from the Bush administration saying in various ways from the perspective of their particular positions that Bush went into the White House with the intention of going to war with Iraq. From day one he and his "team" began setting the stage and manipulating all the information and sources thereof to bring about the desired results.

If people can ignore those first hand accounts there's nothing you, I or anyone else can say to make the face reality.


They'll defend their mistakes to the end. They're on the defensive and believe offense is the best defense. Visualize the cornered aggressive creature of your choice.

[johnroxx]

johnroxx

Well, the unthinkable has happened.

With his expert, well-informed beat-down of the UK whiner, this guy calling himself RaiderFan has earned my utmost respect.

And this comes from a life-long Charger fan, BTW.

Bravo, my friend.

'Beat down' is a term which suggests anything but debate, discussion and argument, but then why would I expect anything else? The UK Whiner, Beaten-down?.....dream on, boy.

Actually, in this context beat down is a term which suggests that you've been completely owned by RaiderFan.

Once again, hats off to him...

;^)

[conversationpc]

Marc - You might as well leave them to the chest beating and fist pumping. People like this can never admit they're wrong.

A quality that you've displayed well in previous discussions, I might add.

[johnroxx]

Marc - You might as well leave them to the chest beating and fist pumping. People like this can never admit they're wrong.

A quality that you've displayed well in previous discussions, I might add.

Word...

;^)

[conversationpc]

They've chosen to ignore:

Former Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neal

Actually, what O'Neill said was that the Bush administration was engaging in contingency planning, the same thing the Clinton administration was doing prior to them, in case war with Iraq was EVER necessary. Here's what O'Neill said to clarify...

"People are trying to make a case that I said the president was planning war in Iraq early in the administration," O'Neill said.

"Actually, there was a continuation of work that had been going on in the Clinton administration with the notion that there needed to be regime change in Iraq."

The idea that Bush "came into office with a predisposition to invade Iraq, I think, is a total misunderstanding of the situation," Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld told reporters at the Pentagon.

http://edition.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS ... index.html

Former Terrorism Advisor Richard Clarke

Clarke claims that Bush pulled him aside one day and told him to "find whether Iraq did this" in reference to the hijackings on 9/11. Of course, there is no corroborative evidence of Bush doing this.

Former CIA Director George Tenet

Tenet also supposedly told Bush that it was a "slam dunk" that Iraq had WMDs. Do you believe him over Bush?

Former Secretary of State Colin Powell

As far as I know, Powell, who was against going to war with Iraq, has said he "felt" that the Bush administration wanted the war with Iraq and wanted to establish ties from them to 9/11 but I haven't heard that he knew that for sure or had evidence of it.

Former Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan

This has already been dealt with, I believe, but here goes...The press reported that Greenspan said the war was about oil. That isn't what he said. Here's what actually happened...

Greenspan said that at the time of the invasion, he believed, like Bush, that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction "because Saddam was acting so guiltily trying to protect something." While he was "reasonably sure he did not have an atomic weapon," he added, "my view was that if we do nothing, eventually he would gain control of a weapon."

His main support for Hussein's ouster, though, was economically motivated. "If Saddam Hussein had been head of Iraq and there was no oil under those sands," Greenspan said, "our response to him would not have been as strong as it was in the first gulf war. And the second gulf war is an extension of the first. My view is that Saddam, looking over his 30-year history, very clearly was giving evidence of moving towards controlling the Straits of Hormuz, where there are 17, 18, 19 million barrels a day" passing through.

Greenspan said disruption of even 3 to 4 million barrels a day could translate into oil prices as high as $120 a barrel -- far above even the recent highs of $80 set last week -- and the loss of anything more would mean "chaos" to the global economy.

Given that, "I'm saying taking Saddam out was essential," he said. But he added that he was not implying that the war was an oil grab.

http://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/matthe ... -about-oil

[Marc S]

johnroxx

Actually, in this context beat down is a term which suggests that you've been completely owned by RaiderFan.

Once again, hats off to him...

And your contribution to this debate? Apart from a good deal of brown-nosing RF....fuck all

Only thing RaiderFan owns is his (and your) misguided opinions.

OhSherrie
It didn't get thousands of people killed for oil and a personal vendetta.

Marc - You might as well leave them to the chest beating and fist pumping. People like this can never admit they're wrong.

They've chosen to ignore:

Former Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neal
Former Terrorism Advisor Richard Clarke
Former CIA Director George Tenet
Former Secretary of State Colin Powell
Former Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan

And others whose name I can't think of at this time

Who have all come away from the Bush administration saying in various ways from the perspective of their particular positions that Bush went into the White House with the intention of going to war with Iraq. From day one he and his "team" began setting the stage and manipulating all the information and sources thereof to bring about the desired results.

If people can ignore those first hand accounts there's nothing you, I or anyone else can say to make the face reality.


They'll defend their mistakes to the end. They're on the defensive and believe offense is the best defense. Visualize the cornered aggressive creature of your choice.

Very true. I'm glad there are Americans that can see through the Bush propaganda and manipulation.

[conversationpc]

Very true. I'm glad there are Americans that can see through the Bush propaganda and manipulation.

See my above post. Those people mentioned aren't all they're cracked up to be. I'm glad there are Brits who can't see through the liberal propaganda and manipulation.

[RossValoryRocks]

Soldiers are indeed a different breed but not particularly in the uber-patriot way you go on about.

VERY few military people WANT to go to war you dickhead. You know NOTHING about the military. 100% of the Soldiers, Marines, Airmen, and Sailors I know have served because they felt "uber-patriotic" as you put it. The feel our country and our way of life is worth defending. And almost NEVER is their hand to hand combat in this day and age, with that you show your utter lack of knowledge of the military.

You know you are a real piece of shit. It's appolgists like you who CAUSE the cancer of terrorism, because you and your kind make our country look weak.

Terrorist don't want to be diplomatic as you seem to think, and neither do the countries that support them (Iraq, Syria etc etc)...they want us dead...our way of life dead...or us converted to their religion and their way of life.

I served my country because of the abiding love I have for it and it's people. I believe in your right to free speech, I also believe that you and your kind cross the line into TREASON, sediton and are giving aid and comfort to the enemy with the irresponsible rhetoric you use, and that since this is a time of war you should be placed against a wall and shot.

I hate quoting movies...but I have to in this case, because the writer of a Few Good Men was right on the money (This is abridged)...

"Son, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns...You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall, you need me on that wall. We use words like honor, code, loyalty. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon, and stand a post."

So now just shut the fuck up.
Stu
~Former SSGT. USMC. (1987-1997)

[ohsherrie]

Dave,

You can spin what you've read any way you want to, but this is what I've heard from these mens' mouthes:

On the Today show, in an interview with that woman who reads the new(I can't think of her name) O'Neal said, point blank, that Bush came into the White House telling his people to "get him a reason to go to war with Iraq". Those were his exact words that I HEARD him say.

On the View, just a few days ago, Greenspan said these exact words, "the war in Iraq is about oil." (I also read in article and interview about his book that he was very disappointed in Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld.)

Richard Clarke on GMA has said Bush was ignoring the signs that would have pointed to 9/11 because he was focused on putting together a case for going to war with Iraq.

Colin Powell has said he was lied to. Powell's wife has spoken about how devastated he was over what he was manipulated into saying to the UN. If Powell was lied to it stands to reason that congress and this nation were also lied to.

I don't see how anyone can be so unwilling to admit they were wrong (or so happy with the earnings on their investments or the new sound system they bought with their tax cut ) that they can keep denying what's gone on in the most corrupt administration in this country's history.

[johnroxx]

Soldiers are indeed a different breed but not particularly in the uber-patriot way you go on about.

VERY few military people WANT to go to war you dickhead. You know NOTHING about the military. 100% of the Soldiers, Marines, Airmen, and Sailors I know have served because they felt "uber-patriotic" as you put it. The feel our country and our way of life is worth defending. And almost NEVER is their hand to hand combat in this day and age, with that you show your utter lack of knowledge of the military.

You know you are a real piece of shit. It's appolgists like you who CAUSE the cancer of terrorism, because you and your kind make our country look weak.

Terrorist don't want to be diplomatic as you seem to think, and neither do the countries that support them (Iraq, Syria etc etc)...they want us dead...our way of life dead...or us converted to their religion and their way of life.

I served my country because of the abiding love I have for it and it's people. I believe in your right to free speech, I also believe that you and your kind cross the line into TREASON, sediton and are giving aid and comfort to the enemy with the irresponsible rhetoric you use, and that since this is a time of war you should be placed against a wall and shot.

I hate quoting movies...but I have to in this case, because the writer of a Few Good Men was right on the money (This is abridged)...

"Son, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns...You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall, you need me on that wall. We use words like honor, code, loyalty. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon, and stand a post."

So now just shut the fuck up.
Stu
~Former SSGT. USMC. (1987-1997)

Nice post, Stu.

Pretty much wasted on the UK whiner, whose blathering is about as informed and relevant as the extremely talented but pathetically airheaded Natalie Maines, who figured it was somehow cool and trendy to dis our president, on stage, in another freakin' country.

REGARDLESS of what you think of Bush (and I'm far from agreeing with everything the guy does/has done), her action was embarrassing, and as unpatriotic as it gets.

;^)

[Marc S]

RossValoryRocks

VERY few military people WANT to go to war you dickhead. You know NOTHING about the military. 100% of the Soldiers, Marines, Airmen, and Sailors I know have served because they felt "uber-patriotic" as you put it. The feel our country and our way of life is worth defending. And almost NEVER is their hand to hand combat in this day and age, with that you show your utter lack of knowledge of the military.

What bullshit. I have friends/aquaintances who are veterans of the Falklands and 30 years of street fighting in Northern Ireland - just what they said, not my words.

You know you are a real piece of shit.

Ouch! Really???

It's appolgists like you who CAUSE the cancer of terrorism, because you and your kind make our country look weak.

Terrorist don't want to be diplomatic as you seem to think, and neither do the countries that support them (Iraq, Syria etc etc)...they want us dead...our way of life dead...or us converted to their religion and their way of life.

I served my country because of the abiding love I have for it and it's people. I believe in your right to free speech, I also believe that you and your kind cross the line into TREASON, sediton and are giving aid and comfort to the enemy with the irresponsible rhetoric you use, and that since this is a time of war you should be placed against a wall and shot.

Just because you 'served' your country doesn't give you a closed shop on patriotism and doesn't therefore make everyone who disagrees with you treasonous - playground mentality for sure.

You think I have any less love for the UK? Of course not, dipshit.

I hate quoting movies...but I have to in this case, because the writer of a Few Good Men was right on the money (This is abridged)...

"Son, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns...You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall, you need me on that wall. We use words like honor, code, loyalty. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon, and stand a post."

So now just shut the fuck up.
Stu
~Former SSGT. USMC. (1987-1997)

All the above, 'in your opinion'. You think you have the argument sown up on this with a few limp insults and thumps to the chest - think again. You're right, I have the right to free speech, and you ain't gonna stop that.