Neal Schon and Sammy Hagar in 2008?

[Saint John]

Steve Perry is no better or worse than Neal or Jon. They've ALL made bad decisions. Steve quitting during two major tours, firing 2 members for NO reason, recording an album he had no intention of touring behind and using some fabricated injury to hold the band hostage for YEARS as they patiently waited for him seems at least as bad as the shit they've done. Also, maybe...just maybe, he'd do it for the fans that WANT this to happen. Be disappointed all you fuckin' want. You don't know Steve Perry and you certainly don't know if he has any more or less dignity than Neal or Jon. Your post tells me that subconciously you don't even think it's a possibility he'd do this for the legions of fans he fucked over circa 1996. Where was "his dignity" then? Must be somewhere in that gag order. Sure makes me want to fuckin' puke.

Wow. What a disappointing (and inaccurate) post from someone I thought better of.

Not really fair to call it inaccurate without actually pointing out the inaccuracies. I guess you'd rather throw in those last 6 words than explain where I was wrong. Seems like a cheap shot. That disappoints me; guess we're even. As for the point of my post, it was to remind people two things: 1) Steve Perry has made mistakes too, and 2) No one is "too good" to play in this band, and the "if he did I'd be disappointed" comments are getting tiresome.

[Deb]

Steve Perry is no better or worse than Neal or Jon. They've ALL made bad decisions. Steve quitting during two major tours, firing 2 members for NO reason, recording an album he had no intention of touring behind and using some fabricated injury to hold the band hostage for YEARS as they patiently waited for him seems at least as bad as the shit they've done.

Bad decisions or not, at least he had the balls to tell the other members to their face! And at least he's been man enough to admit to decisions he thinks weren't for the best and stands firm on ones that he does.

[ohsherrie]

2) No one is "too good" to play in this band, and the "if he did I'd be disappointed" comments are getting tiresome.

Sorry you're so tired, but he really is too good for Frig and Fro and some of us would be disappointed if he stooped to their level. That's just the way it is.

If he were to ever appear on stage with them again it should be a one-off, televised, media event and promoted as the last appearance of Steve Perry with his former bandmates as a tribute to the retirement of the name.

[Saint John]

Steve Perry is no better or worse than Neal or Jon. They've ALL made bad decisions. Steve quitting during two major tours, firing 2 members for NO reason, recording an album he had no intention of touring behind and using some fabricated injury to hold the band hostage for YEARS as they patiently waited for him seems at least as bad as the shit they've done.

Bad decisions or not, at least he had the balls to tell the other members to their face! And at least he's been man enough to admit to decisions he thinks weren't for the best and stands firm on ones that he does.

This isn't about having "balls" or being "man enough." It's about guys in a band that have ALL made bad decisions. You're argument is as dumb as me saying well at least when Neal and Jon fired Jeff he was just a covers singer not someone that made original albums with the band that sold millions of copies like Ross and Smitty. See? Isn't that a stupid argument? Just like yours was. Wrong is wrong whether you have "balls" or not.

[scarygirl]

I for one don't have my head in the clouds. I also don't believe in the Easter Bunny, don't you know he died from too many PEEPS? But I do believe a reunion is possible. Stranger things have happened.

If anyone wants to criticize me on that point, oh well!

[Deb]

Steve Perry is no better or worse than Neal or Jon. They've ALL made bad decisions. Steve quitting during two major tours, firing 2 members for NO reason, recording an album he had no intention of touring behind and using some fabricated injury to hold the band hostage for YEARS as they patiently waited for him seems at least as bad as the shit they've done.

Bad decisions or not, at least he had the balls to tell the other members to their face! And at least he's been man enough to admit to decisions he thinks weren't for the best and stands firm on ones that he does.

This isn't about having "balls" or being "man enough." It's about guys in a band that have ALL made bad decisions. You're argument is as dumb as me saying well at least when Neal and Jon fired Jeff he was just a covers singer not someone that made original albums with the band that sold millions of copies like Ross and Smitty. See? Isn't that a stupid argument? Just like yours was. Wrong is wrong whether you have "balls" or not.

But wouldn't Neal and Jon have actually had to have talked to Jeff to be the ones who fired him? I'm not saying they haven't all made mistakes, but their actions around those mistakes differ, IMO.

You want to go another round on this again Danny boy?

[strangegrey]

Steve Perry is no better or worse than Neal or Jon. They've ALL made bad decisions. Steve quitting during two major tours, firing 2 members for NO reason, recording an album he had no intention of touring behind and using some fabricated injury to hold the band hostage for YEARS as they patiently waited for him seems at least as bad as the shit they've done. Also, maybe...just maybe, he'd do it for the fans that WANT this to happen. Be disappointed all you fuckin' want. You don't know Steve Perry and you certainly don't know if he has any more or less dignity than Neal or Jon. Your post tells me that subconciously you don't even think it's a possibility he'd do this for the legions of fans he fucked over circa 1996. Where was "his dignity" then? Must be somewhere in that gag order. Sure makes me want to fuckin' puke.

Wow. What a disappointing (and inaccurate) post from someone I thought better of.

Most everything about Perry (re: Journey) is disappointing....but pray tell, what exactly is inaccurate about it?

[strangegrey]

2) No one is "too good" to play in this band, and the "if he did I'd be disappointed" comments are getting tiresome.

Sorry you're so tired, but he really is too good for Frig and Fro and some of us would be disappointed if he stooped to their level. That's just the way it is.

If he were to ever appear on stage with them again it should be a one-off, televised, media event and promoted as the last appearance of Steve Perry with his former bandmates as a tribute to the retirement of the name.

Sorry, my horse rides with St John on this one. The fact of the matter is that there's enough bodies each of their closets to make each one look pretty fucking bad to the average person that isn't destined for the 7th layer of hell.

So really, lets take little sweet halo off of wittle ole Stevie....The guy wouldn't be stooping to any level by playing with the two of the 3 biggest douchebags in rock and roll.....especially given the fact that he's the third!

[Voyager]

My source tells me it Journey will be out with Def Leppard again.

Europe to kick it off in June...then back to the States for the later summer and fall.

Now if they would just tell us who the singer will be.
~Stu

My guess is Steve Perry.

That would be so fucking awesome. I would end up flying to at least the first five shows.

[Voyager]

It's a sad day when Journey can't headline their own tours anymore.

They could if Perry would come back for a tour.

[Voyager]

Steve Perry is no better or worse than Neal or Jon. They've ALL made bad decisions. Steve quitting during two major tours, firing 2 members for NO reason, recording an album he had no intention of touring behind and using some fabricated injury to hold the band hostage for YEARS as they patiently waited for him seems at least as bad as the shit they've done. Also, maybe...just maybe, he'd do it for the fans that WANT this to happen.

Good point. If you guys would take some time away from the band, you might be able to realize that they are all human and prone to failure. I stay away from the politics of Journey, so I am not disappointed with any of them. (Now Van Halen is another story - LOL!) It would be awesome to see Perry come back into the band. Hell, if Eddie and Dave can make amends and tour, surely Steve Perry and Journey can do the same.

[amaron]

but pray tell, what exactly is inaccurate about it?

Nothing.

The only people who open their eyes to see the failings of The Hermit are the ones not permanently attached to his organ.

[mistiejourney]

Doubt it....although possible.

Last I heard there were big US tour plans in the making for Journey 2008.

Opening for Jeff Scott Soto, I hope. Twits.

[mistiejourney]

My source tells me it Journey will be out with Def Leppard again.

Europe to kick it off in June...then back to the States for the later summer and fall.

Now if they would just tell us who the singer will be.
~Stu

My guess is Steve Perry.

I will personally fly to wherever you are and buy you a drink if that happens!

[ohsherrie]

It's beyond astonishing to me that fans who have never met Steve Perry except perhaps at a meet and greet can actually be arrogant enough to have the audacity to challenge a woman who's known him for over 20 yrs on his history and motivations. Do you guys have any idea how absurd that is and what assholes you look like when you do it? Do you even care? Well, stupid question, you obviously don't.

She doesn't have to explain why SJ's post is inaccurate. It's enough that she says it is. She stated on here clearly a while back that Steve absolutely did have hip surgery and was blatantly called a liar for it. Why in the hell would she ever try to "explain" anything to any of you again?

[JohnH]

Sammy and Neal next summer? . Why bother reliving the idiocy of HSAS? ..

I'm not sure what you mean. HSAS were great!

John

[journeyrock]

It's beyond astonishing to me that fans who have never met Steve Perry except perhaps at a meet and greet can actually be arrogant enough to have the audacity to challenge a woman who's known him for over 20 yrs on his history and motivations. Do you guys have any idea how absurd that is and what assholes you look like when you do it? Do you even care? Well, stupid question, you obviously don't.

She doesn't have to explain why SJ's post is inaccurate. It's enough that she says it is. She stated on here clearly a while back that Steve absolutely did have hip surgery and was blatantly called a liar for it. Why in the hell would she ever try to "explain" anything to any of you again?

Thank you for that post, Oh Sherrie. Sometimes I get so angry at some of the things that are said.

[strangegrey]

It's beyond astonishing to me that fans who have never met Steve Perry except perhaps at a meet and greet can actually be arrogant enough to have the audacity to challenge a woman who's known him for over 20 yrs on his history and motivations...

She's been his propaganda machine for decades! There's a difference. If she were a 'friend' and nothing more...it would be one thing...and I, for one, would take her at face value.

HOWEVER, and this is a big HOWEVER...she's director of marketing at Fan Asylum. There's a conflict of interest here. A BIG one. Is Perry still a client of insane asylum? Is he? Because, last I checked yes. Is an employee of Fan Asylum going to coroborate ANY story that casts Perry in a bad light without concern for their job? Sorry, Perry lied about ALOT of things...and no employee of Insane Asylum is going to confirm ANY of misrepresentation of Perry....knowing full well how well people hold their jobs with Perry around....She's NOT credible with respect to this issue because she is not independant from the information she is attesting to. I'm sorry if you can't see the distinction...I'm not here to make you see things most *normal* people can see without guidance. Sorry!

This sorta crap is against the law at the corporate level...but it's ok when we're just talking about sainted Stevie, right?

What a load of crap...I say.

The fact of the matter is that when 99% of the evidence out there confirms the heapload of bullshit against Perry, but his mouthpiece for decades says 'no no no, you've got it all wrong' and you believe it...you're a patzy. You're the equivalent of the dope standing on the grassy knoll, feeling bullets whiz over your head...that buys the story that Lee Harvey Oswald fired 3 shots from a pump action rifle through trees, several stories up, in less than 7 seconds!

I'd be willing to bet that if such a conflict of independence existed with the president and the spokesman on behalf of the president tried to bury or sidestep the story, you wouldn't buy it for one second. There's no difference here. Well, one difference. Perry lies more than Dubya...

[Deb]

It's beyond astonishing to me that fans who have never met Steve Perry except perhaps at a meet and greet can actually be arrogant enough to have the audacity to challenge a woman who's known him for over 20 yrs on his history and motivations...

She's been his propaganda machine for decades! There's a difference. If she were a 'friend' and nothing more...it would be one thing...and I, for one, would take her at face value.

HOWEVER, and this is a big HOWEVER...she's director of marketing at Fan Asylum. There's a conflict of interest here. A BIG one. Is Perry still a client of insane asylum? Is he? Because, last I checked yes. Is an employee of Fan Asylum going to coroborate ANY story that casts Perry in a bad light without concern for their job? Sorry, Perry lied about ALOT of things...and no employee of Insane Asylum is going to confirm ANY of misrepresentation of Perry....knowing full well how well people hold their jobs with Perry around....She's NOT credible with respect to this issue because she is not independant from the information she is attesting to. I'm sorry if you can't see the distinction...I'm not here to make you see things most *normal* people can see without guidance. Sorry!

This sorta crap is against the law at the corporate level...but it's ok when we're just talking about sainted Stevie, right?

What a load of crap...I say.

The fact of the matter is that when 99% of the evidence out there confirms the heapload of bullshit against Perry, but his mouthpiece for decades says 'no no no, you've got it all wrong' and you believe it...you're a patzy. You're the equivalent of the dope standing on the grassy knoll, feeling bullets whiz over your head...that buys the story that Lee Harvey Oswald fired 3 shots from a pump action rifle through trees, several stories up, in less than 7 seconds!

I'd be willing to bet that if such a conflict of independence existed with the president and the spokesman on behalf of the president tried to bury or sidestep the story, you wouldn't buy it for one second. There's no difference here. Well, one difference. Perry lies more than Dubya...

HOLY F*CKING SHIT!!!!!

[Lora]

It's beyond astonishing to me that fans who have never met Steve Perry except perhaps at a meet and greet can actually be arrogant enough to have the audacity to challenge a woman who's known him for over 20 yrs on his history and motivations. Do you guys have any idea how absurd that is and what assholes you look like when you do it? Do you even care? Well, stupid question, you obviously don't.

She doesn't have to explain why SJ's post is inaccurate. It's enough that she says it is. She stated on here clearly a while back that Steve absolutely did have hip surgery and was blatantly called a liar for it. Why in the hell would she ever try to "explain" anything to any of you again?

No worries, Sherrie. I would normally not have said anything but the comments came from someone I respected. Just let it go as I have.

[CatEyes]

Steve Perry is no better or worse than Neal or Jon. They've ALL made bad decisions. Steve quitting during two major tours, firing 2 members for NO reason, recording an album he had no intention of touring behind and using some fabricated injury to hold the band hostage for YEARS as they patiently waited for him seems at least as bad as the shit they've done. Also, maybe...just maybe, he'd do it for the fans that WANT this to happen. Be disappointed all you fuckin' want. You don't know Steve Perry and you certainly don't know if he has any more or less dignity than Neal or Jon. Your post tells me that subconciously you don't even think it's a possibility he'd do this for the legions of fans he fucked over circa 1996. Where was "his dignity" then? Must be somewhere in that gag order. Sure makes me want to fuckin' puke.

Wow. What a disappointing (and inaccurate) post from someone I thought better of.

Most everything about Perry (re: Journey) is disappointing....but pray tell, what exactly is inaccurate about it?

There are no facts stated ..... mostly they are assumptions:

recording an album he had no intention of touring behind

were you privy to a conversation with Perry of which no one else was ........

this is a prime example of a rumour getting quoted enough on the internet it starts getting quoted as fact. and please do not bore me with "insider information"

using some fabricated injury to hold the band hostage for YEARS

another assumption. Guess you will have to wait for Perry to drop trou and show you the scars.

I am not here to fight with you Frank ..... I just always thought that you were smarter than to play the internet bully and join in the beat down.

Guess we all have to live with our disappointments.

and for the record, my opinion of the "inaccuracies" by no means indicates that I have my head up Perry's ass.

Yes I am a fan of Perry's and I am a fan of Journey music ..... and I have a very realistic view of both.

No one needs to start telling me what I think or believe.

Cat

[WickedGail]

Let's face it folks and after my saying that I'd NEVER buy another Journey concert ticket agian! If Sir Perry were to ever rejoin the group you could then call me a liar because I would be first in line for a ticket! For the opportunity of hearing "THE VOICE" one more time I would be willing to put up with all the crap Frig and Fro would dish out! So would the rest of you if your willing to tell the truth!

With all due respect to Mr Perry's integerty I could see him swallowing his pride for one last ride on the gravy train. One last chance in the "spotlight" You can't tell me that this man's performers ego has been totally put out. Yes, I know it may be a wild rock and roll fantasy but with the current reunuion tours of Genesis, The Police, Van Halen. All of witch people said would NEVER happen I could see it go down. The money that could roll in from this between the tickets, merch, and a CD/DVD made of it would be tremendous.

So I guess I'm a loon now, well then guilty as charged!

Gail

[annie89509]

Steve Perry is no better or worse than Neal or Jon. They've ALL made bad decisions. Steve quitting during two major tours, firing 2 members for NO reason, recording an album he had no intention of touring behind and using some fabricated injury to hold the band hostage for YEARS as they patiently waited for him seems at least as bad as the shit they've done. Also, maybe...just maybe, he'd do it for the fans that WANT this to happen. Be disappointed all you fuckin' want. You don't know Steve Perry and you certainly don't know if he has any more or less dignity than Neal or Jon. Your post tells me that subconciously you don't even think it's a possibility he'd do this for the legions of fans he fucked over circa 1996. Where was "his dignity" then? Must be somewhere in that gag order. Sure makes me want to fuckin' puke.

Wow. What a disappointing (and inaccurate) post from someone I thought better of.

Most everything about Perry (re: Journey) is disappointing....but pray tell, what exactly is inaccurate about it?

I don't know Lora personally, but I have been on this and other boards long enough to know she is a class act and doesn't want to get into a tit-for-tat with anyone. Let me try to tackle the inaccuracies. First, Steve did not "quit" the ROR tour. From all accounts, Hawaii was to be the last stop, but at the last minute, the guys decided to go up to Alaska for 2 more shows. Sure, Jon&Neal, heck everybody in Journey corp, would have wanted a 2nd leg, but there was no prior plans (or commitment) to do so, was there? Second, Steve did not "fire" Ross&Smitty for "no good reason." It was a "mutual" decision by the 3 main bandmembers. Sure, Steve instigated it, but as the producer, he had every right to push for the sound he had envisioned for the album. Years later, he admitted on BTM that it was a mistake and in his song, Anyway, he apologized for his power trips. How can anyone still hold his feet to the fire over this? As for the TBF debacle, sure, all Journey fans lost out on a great reunion tour but, hey, we got another great record to add to our Journey collection, don't we? What is this "making the guys wait for 2 years" fallacy? As late as Thanksgiving/Christmas 1996, the guys were all over the radio and media promoting the new album and talking about a tour "in the summer." We know this never materialized, but no one knows but the negotiators and individuals involved what pressures were placed on Steve as far as length and duration on the road. Do you think Neal, after a ten-year Journey hiatus, was going to settle for anything less but all night-- all every night? We do know this: SP got THE CALL from JC Jan/Feb ‘98; they severed ties legally April ‘98, Journey went on tour with SA short after that. This hardly paints a picture of the Journey guys sitting on the hands for 2 years waiting for SP to decide to tour, does it?

[amaron]

It's beyond astonishing to me that fans who have never met Steve Perry except perhaps at a meet and greet can actually be arrogant enough to have the audacity to challenge a woman who's known him for over 20 yrs on his history and motivations. Do you guys have any idea how absurd that is and what assholes you look like when you do it? Do you even care? Well, stupid question, you obviously don't.

She doesn't have to explain why SJ's post is inaccurate. It's enough that she says it is. She stated on here clearly a while back that Steve absolutely did have hip surgery and was blatantly called a liar for it. Why in the hell would she ever try to "explain" anything to any of you again?

I'd like to know why he didn't want to be forced into getting the hip surgery, and wouldn't tour because he didn't want to be confined to a stool on stage, yet he had the surgery not 7 months after the call and when he was replaced with "the soundalike, or whatever he was". If Journey was so important to him, why wait? Did it just come to him 6 months later that "Oh shit, I should probably get this finally taken care of."?

[Eric]

This hardly paints a picture of the Journey guys sitting on the hands for 2 years waiting for SP to decide to tour, does it?

It sure as shit does. These guys aren't fucking 20 years old. It was NOW (as in ASAP) or never. They waited for over a year at the very least!

I don't blame them one bit for continuing on, and wish they would have after Frontiers...because we got shit after that for 17 years.

What I do blame them for is not releasing new music like they said they would. 2.5 albums in 10 years...PFFFFFFFFFFFF Could have been a new beginning with JSS..it better be a new beginning with someone else now, because they have A LOT to prove. I know they can play Separate Ways.....

[annie89509]

It's beyond astonishing to me that fans who have never met Steve Perry except perhaps at a meet and greet can actually be arrogant enough to have the audacity to challenge a woman who's known him for over 20 yrs on his history and motivations. Do you guys have any idea how absurd that is and what assholes you look like when you do it? Do you even care? Well, stupid question, you obviously don't.

She doesn't have to explain why SJ's post is inaccurate. It's enough that she says it is. She stated on here clearly a while back that Steve absolutely did have hip surgery and was blatantly called a liar for it. Why in the hell would she ever try to "explain" anything to any of you again?

I'd like to know why he didn't want to be forced into getting the hip surgery, and wouldn't tour because he didn't want to be confined to a stool on stage, yet he had the surgery not 7 months after the call and when he was replaced with "the soundalike, or whatever he was". If Journey was so important to him, why wait? Did it just come to him 6 months later that "Oh shit, I should probably get this finally taken care of."?

I don't get why there always seems to be so much hate spewed against SP. It's a good thing he doesn't visit fan sites. Even during Tapegate, it wasn't Perry fans that were crapping all over SA. We actually felt sorry for him. As for the "soundalike" remark, as one poster noted in another thread, it is no secret that SA was hired specifically to duplicate the old Journey sound. Listen to Arrival, there's no denying that SA sang all the songs just the way SP would have sang them. The signature Perryisms were all over that record. It turned me off, as I imagine it turned off a lot of people, as evidenced by the underwhelming sales of Arrival. Conversely, the Essential Journey 2-cd set was a huge success. Now, I thought SA flourished on Generations, but they wouldn't let him sing all the songs. And the question, "why didn't Perry let them forced him into surgery to tour" is so asinine, it's not even worth an answer.

[strangegrey]

I am not here to fight with you Frank ..... I just always thought that you were smarter than to play the internet bully and join in the beat down.

Actually Cat, you're not quoting me. You're quoting someone else...so with respect to this, who are you 'not fighting' with?

I have my *opinions* on what's right and wrong. There's plenty of evidence that supports my opinion. Sadly to say, there's not much evidence pointing in the other way....my issue here, is very much one of attestation. A person lacking independence can NOT attest to the veracity of statements of anyone within the dependent circle. It's simply not possible for any level of credible attestation to happen.

THAT is my issue here...and it's a big one. I'm not playing bully, as you seem to want to point out....I simply don't feel that the current way with which things are argued, is apropriate given what i've said above.

[ohsherrie]

It's beyond astonishing to me that fans who have never met Steve Perry except perhaps at a meet and greet can actually be arrogant enough to have the audacity to challenge a woman who's known him for over 20 yrs on his history and motivations. Do you guys have any idea how absurd that is and what assholes you look like when you do it? Do you even care? Well, stupid question, you obviously don't.

She doesn't have to explain why SJ's post is inaccurate. It's enough that she says it is. She stated on here clearly a while back that Steve absolutely did have hip surgery and was blatantly called a liar for it. Why in the hell would she ever try to "explain" anything to any of you again?

I'd like to know why he didn't want to be forced into getting the hip surgery, and wouldn't tour because he didn't want to be confined to a stool on stage, yet he had the surgery not 7 months after the call and when he was replaced with "the soundalike, or whatever he was". If Journey was so important to him, why wait? Did it just come to him 6 months later that "Oh shit, I should probably get this finally taken care of."?

Amaron, I've never had a problem with you, but did it ever occur to you that all the intimate details are none of our business? Do you think that the lack of those intimate details give you and others the right to assume that Steve was the villain just because all the info you were getting was coming from Frig and Fro and, naturally, of the negative sort towards Steve? Haven't any of you Fro worshipers learned anything about you idol's character since Tapegate?

It seem to me that people are still trying desperately to find a way to blame Perry for everything, even things that have happened since he got shit on, rather than face the irrefutable evidence that Neal and Jon are completely unethical and self serving assholes.

[brywool]

While Sam's a class act, Neal it appears, is not.
Could care less.

[strangegrey]

Amaron, I've never had a problem with you, but did it ever occur to you that all the intimate details are none of our business? Do you think that the lack of those intimate details give you and others the right to assume that Steve was the villain just because all the info you were getting was coming from Frig and Fro and, naturally, of the negative sort towards Steve? Haven't any of you Fro worshipers learned anything about you idol's character since Tapegate?

This is of course, assuming Perry's injury was genuine...and not a ploy to escape his obligations. The way I see it, fucka and fro called his bluff, and he blinked. However, Perry would have folded a hand or two later...that's aparent, given his inactivity since.

It seem to me that people are still trying desperately to find a way to blame Perry for everything, even things that have happened since he got shit on, rather than face the irrefutable evidence that Neal and Jon are completely unethical and self serving assholes.

Not true at all. If you've witnessed anything from me or anyone else you feel so hell bent on squaring off with...is that Fucka and Fro most certainly share a large portion of the blame here. The difference is that I refuse to absolve Perry of his wrongdoing to scuttle this once great band into relative obscurity, just because Fucka and Fro did their fair share with Perry out of the picture.

The problem with you, is that you refuse to acknowledge Perry's humungous role in Journey's demise between 83 and 96. Fucka and Fro just finished the job following 96. Granted, Perry threw up his fair share of legal roadblocks to help things along over the past 10 years, thats for shit sure.

Don't assume your sainted stevie is blameless. Fucka and Fro did their part....but prior to 96, Perry had the keys and drove this once Hot Rod GTO into the ground. By the time Fucka and Fro got the keys, the Hot Rodded GTO was just a rusted out, piece of shit dodge that burned 2 quarts of oil a month and needed a kick start every time you wanted to drive it.