OT: New Movie Concern for Parents - The Golden Compass

[conversationpc]

In other words, the theory of evolution is not the cold, hard fact that some people present it to be.

And, Christianity has evolved and changed its beliefs over the past 2000 years as well...

This is an untrue statement.

It's untrue as far as the core beliefs of the church. However, some beliefs have changed.

[Higgy]

Anyway, how about this one from http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrar ... ns_faq.php ...

Evolutionary science is a work in progress. New discoveries are made and explanations adjusted when necessary. And in this respect, evolution is just like all other sciences. Research continues to add to our knowledge. While we don't know everything about evolution (or any other scientific discipline, for that matter), we do know a great deal about the history of life, the pattern of lineage-splitting through time, and the mechanisms that have caused these changes. And more will be learned in the future. To date, evolution is the only well-supported explanation for life's diversity.

And nothing here says anything against the claims of evolution. Everytime we find a skull, it adds to our body of knowledge. 3 years ago, we found homo flores which no one had seen before. All that has done is add to the discussion of exactly how many adaptations changed the hominid line before modern homo sapiens appeared.

Nothing has yet to come to light that even questions the mechanisms of natural selection.

Microevolution and macroevolution are one in the same when we are talking about 3 billion years of life on Earth.

[conversationpc]

Microevolution and macroevolution are one in the same when we are talking about 3 billion years of life on Earth.

Sorry, that's just not true.

[brywool]

People get themselves so worked up over the stupidest shit...
How come nobody in my neighborhood gets worked up that the local preacher has a freakin HELIPAD on his church and uses church funds to fund his helicopter travel between churches???
To the GodCopter robin!

people are nuttyasses. Religion... no thanks. People should worry about themselves and their neighbors rather than which dogma to follow...

By the way, read the first part of the snopes thing:

"The Golden Compass, a fantasy film starring Nicole Kidman..."
'nuff said

[conversationpc]

By the way, read the first part of the snopes thing:

"The Golden Compass, a fantasy film starring Nicole Kidman..."
'nuff said

Yes, we realize it is a fantasy film but the author of the books has said that his "fantasy" novels are about killing the idea of God, which is a real thing, not fantasy.

[brywool]

CPC, with all due respect, it's a fantasy book about the idea of killing the idea of God, isn't it? I mean, if the guy really thinks that way, I guess we could all get some torches and pitchforks and go burn his house down in a mob, but come on... it's free thought. Free will. If you don't like it, don't buy it or let you kids see it. But there should be nothing to say that the movie can't be made or the book can't be written, or that because Nicole K's in it that she's some kind of satanist (by the way, Moulin Rouge was a freakin' masterpiece). I think others have likened the whole thing to the anti Harry Potter deal. It's just a story. It doesn't change history, it doesn't change what's already available for people to learn about and to move towards. If it rings true with people, they were already feeling that way anyway. Little kids won't get the bible ramifications unless stupid parents shove it at them. It's just a movie folks. It's not going to hurt them unless the images freak them out or something.

By the way, when my daughter was experiencing church during the time when she was 'finding her way' (which I let her do), her church dragged their youth group to "The Passion of the Christ". Because she was in the 'learning about it' stage, I let her go. However, had she not been in that frame of mind, that is NOT a movie I would've let her see. The violence in that film was NOT meant for kids. I don't give a rat's ass what the subject matter was. All the sudden, "everybody should see it" because its story was the basis for Christianity? BS!
I don't understand why Christians, or any religious groups really, gets SO freaked out about those who disagree with them. Seems to go against most of what these groups are about.

Live and let live. Big deal.

"Be excellent to one another".

[memberzonly]

Evolution is taught because it is the most popular view of how life came to be as it is now. There's no reason that there couldn't be a discussion, or at the very least a mention, of the other views that are out there. No reason at all. There's no reason that kids in school should not be allowed to hear about the most popular views of how this all came about.

Actually, there is. It's called separation of church and state. The church is free to espouse whatever explanations for existence it wants within its own walls. The state cannot. And as one of the underlying prinicpals of the foundations of this country along with the right to free speech and pursuit of religion without fear of persecution, I support your ability to worship as you choose in your house of worship or any other location that is NOT publically funded.

However, feel free to begin teaching scientific prinicpals within church AND pay taxes on church assets and I'll be happy to support the mention of "other views" and loosen that separation clause.

The original post is about a MOVIE. It is supposed to be entertainment. It is not publically funded work. What concerns me most is that I am being warned about "ideas". Ideas a never dangerous. Only people. I do applaud the original poster about taking a proactive approach to monitoring what our children do and see. As parents, we can all do better in that respect.

The best way to vote for your disapproval of the subject matter is to NOT pay to see it. Gotta love capitalism in action . . . . . .

[Voyager]

I think church can do more damage than a movie can.

Don't say stuff like that or you will burn in hell. At least that's what they taught me in Sunday School.

[Greg]

Microevolution and macroevolution are one in the same when we are talking about 3 billion years of life on Earth.

Wow that's a big assumption! While both processes interface each other, they are definitely not one in the same no matter the perspective of time.

[RedWingFan]

Evolution is taught because it is the most popular view of how life came to be as it is now. There's no reason that there couldn't be a discussion, or at the very least a mention, of the other views that are out there. No reason at all. There's no reason that kids in school should not be allowed to hear about the most popular views of how this all came about.

Actually, there is. It's called separation of church and state. The church is free to espouse whatever explanations for existence it wants within its own walls. The state cannot. And as one of the underlying prinicpals of the foundations of this country

Could you direct me to the part of the U.S. Constitution or any official GOVERNMENT document from our founders that refers to this? Because the private letter that Thomas Jefferson wrote to the Danbury Baptists in 1802 was not. The phrase has been contorted and implemented in ways that would disgust the founders. Look at their speeches that have God all over them.

[Marc S]

CPC, with all due respect, it's a fantasy book about the idea of killing the idea of God, isn't it? I mean, if the guy really thinks that way, I guess we could all get some torches and pitchforks and go burn his house down in a mob, but come on... it's free thought. Free will. If you don't like it, don't buy it or let you kids see it. But there should be nothing to say that the movie can't be made or the book can't be written, or that because Nicole K's in it that she's some kind of satanist (by the way, Moulin Rouge was a freakin' masterpiece). I think others have likened the whole thing to the anti Harry Potter deal. It's just a story. It doesn't change history, it doesn't change what's already available for people to learn about and to move towards. If it rings true with people, they were already feeling that way anyway. Little kids won't get the bible ramifications unless stupid parents shove it at them. It's just a movie folks. It's not going to hurt them unless the images freak them out or something.

By the way, when my daughter was experiencing church during the time when she was 'finding her way' (which I let her do), her church dragged their youth group to "The Passion of the Christ". Because she was in the 'learning about it' stage, I let her go. However, had she not been in that frame of mind, that is NOT a movie I would've let her see. The violence in that film was NOT meant for kids. I don't give a rat's ass what the subject matter was. All the sudden, "everybody should see it" because its story was the basis for Christianity? BS!
I don't understand why Christians, or any religious groups really, gets SO freaked out about those who disagree with them. Seems to go against most of what these groups are about.

Live and let live. Big deal.

"Be excellent to one another".

Some sense for bedtime reading.

[Greg]

The original post is about a MOVIE. It is supposed to be entertainment. It is not publically funded work. What concerns me most is that I am being warned about "ideas". Ideas a never dangerous. Only people. I do applaud the original poster about taking a proactive approach to monitoring what our children do and see. As parents, we can all do better in that respect.

The best way to vote for your disapproval of the subject matter is to NOT pay to see it. Gotta love capitalism in action . . . . . .

Actions are formed by ideas. Ideas come from people. I'd say Ideas can be dangerous in their own right.

[Rick]

Evolution is taught because it is the most popular view of how life came to be as it is now. There's no reason that there couldn't be a discussion, or at the very least a mention, of the other views that are out there. No reason at all. There's no reason that kids in school should not be allowed to hear about the most popular views of how this all came about.

Actually, there is. It's called separation of church and state. The church is free to espouse whatever explanations for existence it wants within its own walls. The state cannot. And as one of the underlying prinicpals of the foundations of this country

Could you direct me to the part of the U.S. Constitution or any official GOVERNMENT document from our founders that refers to this? Because the private letter that Thomas Jefferson wrote to the Danbury Baptists in 1802 was not. The phrase has been contorted and implemented in ways that would disgust the founders. Look at their speeches that have God all over them.

I agree. Taking God out of everything goes against everything this country was founded on.

[Greg]

I think church can do more damage than a movie can.

Don't say stuff like that or you will burn in hell. At least that's what they taught me in Sunday School.

The Westboro Baptist Church. Obviously a credible source.

[conversationpc]

The best way to vote for your disapproval of the subject matter is to NOT pay to see it. Gotta love capitalism in action . . . . . .

Exactly. Thanks for your support.

[conversationpc]

CPC, with all due respect, it's a fantasy book about the idea of killing the idea of God, isn't it? I mean, if the guy really thinks that way, I guess we could all get some torches and pitchforks and go burn his house down in a mob, but come on... it's free thought. Free will.

You're rather good at putting words in my mouth that aren't there and were obviously not intended.

(by the way, Moulin Rouge was a freakin' masterpiece).

One of the worst movies I've ever seen.

By the way, when my daughter was experiencing church during the time when she was 'finding her way' (which I let her do), her church dragged their youth group to "The Passion of the Christ". Because she was in the 'learning about it' stage, I let her go. However, had she not been in that frame of mind, that is NOT a movie I would've let her see. The violence in that film was NOT meant for kids. I don't give a rat's ass what the subject matter was. All the sudden, "everybody should see it" because its story was the basis for Christianity? BS!

Sorry but just about every review I've ever read or heard of that move said it would not be appropriate for children to see and I don't know of anyone who said that "everyone should see it".

I don't understand why Christians, or any religious groups really, gets SO freaked out about those who disagree with them. Seems to go against most of what these groups are about.

You're looking at this with a biased eye. There ARE some who get freaked out but the vast majority don't and, unfortunately, that's probably why the major media in this country have such low opinions of Christians in general. Anyway, there's no one in this thread like that.

[conversationpc]

I think church can do more damage than a movie can.

Don't say stuff like that or you will burn in hell. At least that's what they taught me in Sunday School.

The Westboro Baptist Church. Obviously a credible source.

Yeah...False prophet Fred Phelps and his merry band of intermarried bigots.

Oh, yeah, here's another little known fact. Fred Phelps used to be a well-known civil rights attorney and, last I knew, was still a registered Democrat.

[memberzonly]

Could you direct me to the part of the U.S. Constitution or any official GOVERNMENT document from our founders that refers to this? Because the private letter that Thomas Jefferson wrote to the Danbury Baptists in 1802 was not. The phrase has been contorted and implemented in ways that would disgust the founders. Look at their speeches that have God all over them.[/quote]

No problem. Here you go:

U.S. Constitution: First Amendment

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

[RedWingFan]

Could you direct me to the part of the U.S. Constitution or any official GOVERNMENT document from our founders that refers to this? Because the private letter that Thomas Jefferson wrote to the Danbury Baptists in 1802 was not. The phrase has been contorted and implemented in ways that would disgust the founders. Look at their speeches that have God all over them.

No problem. Here you go:

U.S. Constitution: First Amendment

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

You can't be serious. You get "separation of church and state" out of this?
That means, for example, Christianity cannot be favored over Hinduism, Judiaism, etc.... It does not mean God can't be on currency and must be eliminated from all public places. Ever notice the bit after the part you highlighted?

[memberzonly]

The original post is about a MOVIE. It is supposed to be entertainment. It is not publically funded work. What concerns me most is that I am being warned about "ideas". Ideas a never dangerous. Only people. I do applaud the original poster about taking a proactive approach to monitoring what our children do and see. As parents, we can all do better in that respect.

The best way to vote for your disapproval of the subject matter is to NOT pay to see it. Gotta love capitalism in action . . . . . .

Actions are formed by ideas. Ideas come from people. I'd say Ideas can be dangerous in their own right.

I'd respectfully disagree. It's one's inability to impose self control that is the true problem. There are people out there that do like an exchange of ideas. An idea in no means implies action. As you're well aware, there are plenty of places outside this country (in inside with the current adminsitration) that do not support free thought.

[RedWingFan]

The original post is about a MOVIE. It is supposed to be entertainment. It is not publically funded work. What concerns me most is that I am being warned about "ideas". Ideas a never dangerous. Only people. I do applaud the original poster about taking a proactive approach to monitoring what our children do and see. As parents, we can all do better in that respect.

The best way to vote for your disapproval of the subject matter is to NOT pay to see it. Gotta love capitalism in action . . . . . .

Actions are formed by ideas. Ideas come from people. I'd say Ideas can be dangerous in their own right.

I'd respectfully disagree. It's one's inability to impose self control that is the true problem. There are people out there that do like an exchange of ideas. An idea in no means implies action. As you're well aware, there are plenty of places outside this country (in inside with the current adminsitration) that do not support free thought.

You wouldn't happen to have tin foil on your head right now would you?

[memberzonly]

Could you direct me to the part of the U.S. Constitution or any official GOVERNMENT document from our founders that refers to this? Because the private letter that Thomas Jefferson wrote to the Danbury Baptists in 1802 was not. The phrase has been contorted and implemented in ways that would disgust the founders. Look at their speeches that have God all over them.

No problem. Here you go:

U.S. Constitution: First Amendment

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

You can't be serious. You get "separation of church and state" out of this?
That means, for example, Christianity cannot be favored over Hinduism, Judiaism, etc.... It does not mean God can't be on currency and must be eliminated from all public places. Ever notice the bit after the part you highlighted?

Nah, it means that every individual is entitled to worship or not worship and at the same time states that the government will not endorse any religion. And yes, when you have a country that was founded by predominantly Christians, that stamp will be evident. It was the strength of this country's forefathers to realize this and *attempt* to address it. There is a significant difference between slapping "In God We Trust" on currency and endorsing religious teachings in a scientific context.

At the end of the day, I could really care less. I am not religious but my son goes to Catholic school. Each person has to find their own way and truth.

I just appreciate the fact that I can feel and believe that way without fear of persecution.

[memberzonly]

The original post is about a MOVIE. It is supposed to be entertainment. It is not publically funded work. What concerns me most is that I am being warned about "ideas". Ideas a never dangerous. Only people. I do applaud the original poster about taking a proactive approach to monitoring what our children do and see. As parents, we can all do better in that respect.

The best way to vote for your disapproval of the subject matter is to NOT pay to see it. Gotta love capitalism in action . . . . . .

Actions are formed by ideas. Ideas come from people. I'd say Ideas can be dangerous in their own right.

I'd respectfully disagree. It's one's inability to impose self control that is the true problem. There are people out there that do like an exchange of ideas. An idea in no means implies action. As you're well aware, there are plenty of places outside this country (in inside with the current adminsitration) that do not support free thought.

You wouldn't happen to have tin foil on your head right now would you?

Just shaped like little antennae Is that so wrong?!?!?!

[Higgy]

If you admit to microevolution and will admit that species, like protozoans have been on this earth for over 3 billion years. And if you admit that the ecosystems of the earth have changed SUBSTANTIALLY in the 3 billion years - then it is IMPOSSIBLE not to see that microevolution happening at even the SLOWEST rate over this long period would become macroevolutiion.

It only took 80 million years for humans to evolve all the variation between populations since the radiation out of Africa. Pigmentation, blood groups, etc have changed drastically in 80,000 years in one species. How do you think that microevolution wouldn't become macroevolution in 3 billion years time?

[conversationpc]

If you admit to microevolution and will admit that species, like protozoans have been on this earth for over 3 billion years. And if you admit that the ecosystems of the earth have changed SUBSTANTIALLY in the 3 billion years - then it is IMPOSSIBLE not to see that microevolution happening at even the SLOWEST rate over this long period would become macroevolutiion.

It only took 80 million years for humans to evolve all the variation between populations since the radiation out of Africa. Pigmentation, blood groups, etc have changed drastically in 80,000 years in one species. How do you think that microevolution wouldn't become macroevolution in 3 billion years time?

That simply isn't true no matter how much you want it to be. Microevolution occurs every day. We can see it happening with viruses, for instance, that adapt by becoming drug-resistant when they were formerly not. Some species adapt to their environment through various means.

Macroevolution, however, does not occur. You don't see one species evolving into another species. It just doesn't happen.

[brywool]

CPC, with all due respect, it's a fantasy book about the idea of killing the idea of God, isn't it? I mean, if the guy really thinks that way, I guess we could all get some torches and pitchforks and go burn his house down in a mob, but come on... it's free thought. Free will.

You're rather good at putting words in my mouth that aren't there and were obviously not intended.

(by the way, Moulin Rouge was a freakin' masterpiece).

One of the worst movies I've ever seen.

By the way, when my daughter was experiencing church during the time when she was 'finding her way' (which I let her do), her church dragged their youth group to "The Passion of the Christ". Because she was in the 'learning about it' stage, I let her go. However, had she not been in that frame of mind, that is NOT a movie I would've let her see. The violence in that film was NOT meant for kids. I don't give a rat's ass what the subject matter was. All the sudden, "everybody should see it" because its story was the basis for Christianity? BS!

Sorry but just about every review I've ever read or heard of that move said it would not be appropriate for children to see and I don't know of anyone who said that "everyone should see it".

I don't understand why Christians, or any religious groups really, gets SO freaked out about those who disagree with them. Seems to go against most of what these groups are about.

You're looking at this with a biased eye. There ARE some who get freaked out but the vast majority don't and, unfortunately, that's probably why the major media in this country have such low opinions of Christians in general. Anyway, there's no one in this thread like that.

We don't agree. Oh well. Regarding Passion of the Christ, there was a lot of pressure from the church and other families to let the kids go see it, by the way. Churches were really banging the drum for people to see it and entire congregations were going in droves to see it. Almost as if brainwashed... Kids and all. As for a biased eye, maybe so. I am just so tired of the religious fanatics in the world dictating everything and telling people how to live. (Isn't anybody Else???) There are some good Christians, Buddhists, and GASP! Muslims out in the world. But usually the ones that are jumping up and down about 'ban this, ban that' or 'they're going to Hell' or whatever... they are usually the ones to stay away from and give all of them a bad name. It's just a movie. A fantasy. There are lots of books on fantasy out there. Some of them have been turned into religious documentation.

[Arkansas]

Okay, timeout for a really bad church joke.

Q: What did Jesus say at the Last Supper?
A: You guys better get on this side of the table if you want to be in the picture!

Now then, as you were...

later~

[conversationpc]

We don't agree. Oh well. Regarding Passion of the Christ, there was a lot of pressure from the church and other families to let the kids go see it, by the way. Churches were really banging the drum for people to see it and entire congregations were going in droves to see it.

We went to see it also and most churches were encouraging people to see it but I don't have a problem with people who didn't want to because, frankly, it's not necessary.

As for a biased eye, maybe so. I am just so tired of the religious fanatics in the world dictating everything and telling people how to live. (Isn't anybody Else???)

I don't like that, either, but I think many people are just too thin-skinned as well. If they hear someone preaching the Gospel, they automatically think that person is "telling them how they should live", when that's not really the case. Christians can't make someone live different. No one can. Not even God can MAKE someone live different. They have to WANT to live different.

There are some good Christians, Buddhists, and GASP! Muslims out in the world. But usually the ones that are jumping up and down about 'ban this, ban that' or 'they're going to Hell' or whatever... they are usually the ones to stay away from and give all of them a bad name.

I agree. I rarely, if ever, have participated in a boycott. They don't usually work and they are just silly, in my opinion.

[ohsherrie]

In other words, the theory of evolution is not the cold, hard fact that some people present it to be.

And, Christianity has evolved and changed its beliefs over the past 2000 years as well...and there are just as many zealots who claim their religious beliefs are undisputable facts.

Which goes to Douglas Adams' theory that if anybody ever did find out what is all about, that the universe would suddenly change and be just as inexplicable as it always was.

In other words: Get over it already. Nobody knows the 'answer'. You were not meant to. Choose your faith, and don't expect everybody to follow. When you're rejected, wipe your feet off and move on to the next door. It's assinine to think you can force people to believe as you do. I wish more 'Christians' understood that, Jesus did.

"we apologize for the inconvenience." -- God's last to his creation..."Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy"

Thank You.

[conversationpc]

In other words: Get over it already. Nobody knows the 'answer'. You were not meant to.

Pretty cruel of God to do that if true.