OT: smear letter on ebay

[Barb]

I'm sorry Mike. I can't really respond to that. I hate everything about the military.

There are many good things about the military and it just astounds me every time I hear someone spout something like this.

I acknowledge that as long as we have world leaders who play chess with the lives of the people on this planet a military is necessary, but I just can't get beyond the fact that it's ultimately almost always about egos and power being disguised as religion.

Am I the only one thinking "Huh??????"

That's why I gave up.

[RedWingFan]

That's why I gave up.

Difficult arguing with nonsense, huh? My first thought was. Where am I supposed to go with this????

[strangegrey]

A few things here...

first, As CPC said....the spending habbits of this current administration are not representative of true conservatism. In fact, Bush has outspent Clinton in some very 'social' areas. For example, did you know that Bush has maintained a budget for education that is greater than Clinton's highest yearly budget figure for edu?

There are simply some things that Bush has done over the past 7 years that's more liberal than Bill....That's what makes Jorge such an enigma. He's regarded by the leftie media as ultra conservative, neo-nazi dictator...but you simply can't make that claim on the man when you look at his record with education spending or worse, his stance on illegals. Not defending the man...hardly..just pointing out the fine point...

As far as the military is concerned...and this is directed towards Sherrie...you should really look at the military as a tool, not a political organization. Seriously, they're an instrument of the president (pending approval by congress past a certain, although recently ambiguous ,threshold...)...A strong military is an absolute must in todays day and age...How the president uses the military is more an indicator of the president, not the military.

[RedWingFan]

A few things here...

first, As CPC said....the spending habbits of this current administration are not representative of true conservatism. In fact, Bush has outspent Clinton in some very 'social' areas. For example, did you know that Bush has maintained a budget for education that is greater than Clinton's highest yearly budget figure for edu?

There are simply some things that Bush has done over the past 7 years that's more liberal than Bill....That's what makes Jorge such an enigma. He's regarded by the leftie media as ultra conservative, neo-nazi dictator...but you simply can't make that claim on the man when you look at his record with education spending or worse, his stance on illegals.

Unfortunately, this is the truth. Like I've said before I agree with about 60% of what Bush does. The spending, boarder (or lack thereof) are two of the biggest failures of his terms.

[Rockindeano]

I don't buy for a minute that Clinton cared about "real people" anymore than Bush does. he may have come from humble beginnings but he was far from that as President. Clinton perpetuated the poor economic policies from Presidents before him and his fiscal legacy may end up helping us go down the crapper eventually.

Yeah, a balanced budget, a surplus, and no wars...yeah, Clinton is the guy who will send us down the crapper You guys really should tear up those GOP talking points you all obviously receive.

The GOP argument is embarrassing to watch. I feel for you guys. I know you want to be loyal, but they(the GOP leaders), are really bending some of you over.

[conversationpc]

Yeah, a balanced budget, a surplus, and no wars...yeah, Clinton is the guy who will send us down the crapper You guys really should tear up those GOP talking points you all obviously receive.

You know better than to make that argument with me. I bash Bush when I disagree with him and support him when I think he deserves it. If you haven't noticed that, then you're choosing to ignore it.

Besides that, I didn't say Clinton was the one sending us down the crapper. I said he PERPETUATED the fiscal policies that are going to send us down the crapper, as Bush has done (is that a Republican talking point???). There's no denying that fact. The national debt continued to go up DESPITE the balanced budget amendment, which was really nothing more than window dressing. The Republican-controlled Congress was instrumental in passing that and yet they and Clinton merely used it to say "Look, the budget is balanced", while both parties continued dipping into the coffers for more and more money and putting us further and further in debt.

The GOP argument is embarrassing to watch. I feel for you guys. I know you want to be loyal, but they(the GOP leaders), are really bending some of you over.

I'm not a Republican. A majority of Republican politicians are solid crap and Democrats are runny, explosive diarrhea.

[RedWingFan]

and no wars...

I guess if someone comes up to you and punches you in the face and you don't respond and go cry in the corner I guess a fight (or war) never broke out. That's exactly what happened to us on several occasions during his term.

[Skylorde]

Yeah, a balanced budget, a surplus, and no wars...<snip>

Comon Dean, you can do better than that

Kosovo
Side note: Military action was never approved by the UN or Congress and likely violated the War Powers Act. Hmmmmm, why weren't the liberals yelling ILLEGAL WAR?
*edit*
Here's a good read on the Kosovo war:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Targeting_ ... lied_Force
Highlights: The targeting of civilian areas during Operation Allied Force have been a major component in the conflict. The majority of the people killed in the NATO airstrikes were widely reported to be civilians, both Serbs and Albanians.

My God! Billy Boy is a BABY KILLER! CLINTON LIED, SERBS AND ALBANIANS DIED!

Somalia

Surely I'm missing one or two more, but those are the ones off the top of my head.[/url]

[Skylorde]

I'm not a Republican. A majority of Republican politicians are solid crap and Democrats are runny, explosive diarrhea.

That's the Quote of the Day! hehehehe

[RedWingFan]

I'm not a Republican. A majority of Republican politicians are solid crap and Democrats are runny, explosive diarrhea.

That's the Quote of the Day! hehehehe

Yeah, the solid crap is a much easier mess to clean up.

[tj]

But this Rep admin didn't cut spending. The spending has gone through the Capitol dome. It's all hidden in the war spending, but that's as much bullshit as the supposed justification for the war.

This administration, in reference to spending, isn't a true representation of conservative values, either.

This shit of labelling everyone who votes Rep as conservative and everyone who votes Dem as liberal is a good example of how the spin that the parties use has unfairly catagorized the voters and polarized the country.

I'm either as much a victim, or as much to blame, which I'm sure is the case for most of us, because I tend to think of anyone who votes Rep to be one of two things, either a gun toting, bible thumper, or a rich asshole who doesn't give a shit about anyone or anything but his bottom line.

What the Clinton admin spent was to the benefit of the American people.

Do you REALLY believe that? If so, you are sadly deluded.

I didn't monitor every dime he spent but I know that the working people, who are my biggest concern, were much better off when he was in office. He was a real person who came from real people. He understood having to scrape and save. Bush has no earthly idea about having to work for a living. He's totally clueless about the reality of the havoc his economic policies are wreaking.

whatever

[strangegrey]

One thing about Clinton, which fucking pissed me off, was his timing with such military moves. I remember the day or two after Monica Lewinsky exploded....Bill's off doing airstrikes in Bosnia. I guess when you're caught with your dick in an interns mouth, you gotta find someone to pick a fight with...just in case someone questions what exactly your dick was doing in the interns mouth in the first place.

Moving onto the no wars comment....a few things. There were military actions by Clinton that were of such ambiguous justification, that it pales some of Jorge's 'police actions' in the middle east....Kosovo (which Mike touched upon) is most certainly something to consider.

But I honestly believe there isnt a president in today's day and age, given the behind the scenes forces, that can do it morally correct....and it's been that way since Bush 41. So moving on...

The big problem I see with Clinton is his refusal to act...not *only* was there a refusal to act, but an explicit effort to severely eviscerate our military and intelligence resources. The later is the one that has me spinning at night. In the 80s, we had such amazing intelligence resources that we were able to crush the soviet union without firing a shot. Reagan knew exactly what he needed to do, becuase he was given the right intel 90% of the time. Bill never trusted his intel people...he empowered that Pigcunt Albright to create legal roadblocks for the intel agencies....we had an intelligence community that was limp dicked by the time Bush got into office...all of which lead directly to 911.

I'm sure an indictment would have scared Bin Laden and tons of islamists away in the late 90s, as Albright would have any of us believe....frankly, I don't see anything scaring them off except a carefully placed 50 caliber round right between the eyes. All of this, I might add, was a real, distinct possibility pre 911. I guess, intel didn't matter to Bill, unless it was intel on where Hillery was....just in case she walked into the oval office when Bill was getting his knob polished.