After The Fall - "Frontiers and Beyond"

[brandonx76]

Why Perry wanted him out is unconscionable. Perry did other things that were in the same vain. Absolutely incredible. But you never know what goes on behind the scenes.

The last sentence is pretty much the nail on the head....but I really would have liked to know more about the Smitty and Ross decision...I've heard rumor it was a drug problem with Ross, and with Smitty, that he couldn't play to a click. That has to be a joke...I suspect Perry was insistent on having Larrie Londin play because he had a more natural "R&B" thing..(that's my suspicion..) The decision, however, seems to have stemmed from an overgrown control issue, it sounds like.

I hate spreading rumors....but funny story I heard threw the grape vine...During the FTLOSM sessions, Perry wanted a black bass player during the sessions..The producer at the time had brought in various bass players. One of them, was legendary session ace and Toto member, Mike Porcaro. Mike played on a couple of tracks on the album, though he may have recorded more. In any event, at some point Steve was insistent a black bass player play on a particular cut. When they were comparing 'takes' afterwards, Perry pointed out 'See that's what I'm talking about, that's got the soul I'm talking about!'. The producer shot back 'You idiot, that's Mike Porcaro!'

[StoneCold]

Why Perry wanted him out is unconscionable. Perry did other things that were in the same vain. Absolutely incredible. But you never know what goes on behind the scenes.

The last sentence is pretty much the nail on the head....but I really would have liked to know more about the Smitty and Ross decision...I've heard rumor it was a drug problem with Ross, and with Smitty, that he couldn't play to a click. That has to be a joke...I suspect Perry was insistent on having Larrie Londin play because he had a more natural "R&B" thing..(that's my suspicion..) The decision, however, seems to have stemmed from an overgrown control issue, it sounds like.

I hate spreading rumors....but funny story I heard threw the grape vine...During the FTLOSM sessions, Perry wanted a black bass player during the sessions..The producer at the time had brought in various bass players. One of them, was legendary session ace and Toto member, Mike Porcaro. Mike played on a couple of tracks on the album, though he may have recorded more. In any event, at some point Steve was insistent a black bass player play on a particular cut. When they were comparing 'takes' afterwards, Perry pointed out 'See that's what I'm talking about, that's got the soul I'm talking about!'. The producer shot back 'You idiot, that's Mike Porcaro!'

Brandon, you need to keep those stories comin'. That was hilarious.

[bluejeangirl76]

Perry pointed out 'See that's what I'm talking about, that's got the soul I'm talking about!'. The producer shot back 'You idiot, that's Mike Porcaro!'

I hope it's true only because it's so god damned funny.

(chill out folks, I'm not condoning rumors...)

[Rick]

Why Perry wanted him out is unconscionable. Perry did other things that were in the same vain. Absolutely incredible. But you never know what goes on behind the scenes.

The last sentence is pretty much the nail on the head....but I really would have liked to know more about the Smitty and Ross decision...I've heard rumor it was a drug problem with Ross, and with Smitty, that he couldn't play to a click. That has to be a joke...I suspect Perry was insistent on having Larrie Londin play because he had a more natural "R&B" thing..(that's my suspicion..) The decision, however, seems to have stemmed from an overgrown control issue, it sounds like.

I hate spreading rumors....but funny story I heard threw the grape vine...During the FTLOSM sessions, Perry wanted a black bass player during the sessions..The producer at the time had brought in various bass players. One of them, was legendary session ace and Toto member, Mike Porcaro. Mike played on a couple of tracks on the album, though he may have recorded more. In any event, at some point Steve was insistent a black bass player play on a particular cut. When they were comparing 'takes' afterwards, Perry pointed out 'See that's what I'm talking about, that's got the soul I'm talking about!'. The producer shot back 'You idiot, that's Mike Porcaro!'

I've got a bootleg of Journey in Norman Oklahoma in '83 I think, and if that ain't a click track then I don't know what it is.

[Onestepper]

I gotta say that clip is one of the best performances I've EVER seen of the band. I'm glad it was part of the documentary..but even if had not been..its still legendary in my mind forever. They were in their prime..and nothing will ever take that away.

A side note..what was up with Steve's wet hair during the tour..never saw him perspire like that before or after Frontiers.

watching that clip made me happy & sad at the same time. you have no idea how much i miss those days. all those guys (& neal's GF) were like family to me.

Hey Cyndy, I know what you mean. I didn't know them personally though. When I saw them in Fresno in '86 we were in close up seats and somebody next to us said "I can't believe we used to make fun of him in high school".

Those were some amazing times. If you hung out with them then, it must be all the more sad to see how things have turned out. I'll bet you have some great stories though!

[brandonx76]

I've got a bootleg of Journey in Norman Oklahoma in '83 I think, and if that ain't a click track then I don't know what it is.

I kinda thought Smitty's playing during the Frontiers tour was over the top with Tempo's above and beyond the norm...Not that it wasn't tight.. I like it, (and I remember playing the Philidelphia '83 show over and over back in the day) but listening to it now, it tend to look at it as a sign that the band was on it's last leg. Performance wise, I think their best tour was Escape.

[texafana]

I kinda thought Smitty's playing during the Frontiers tour was over the top with Tempo's above and beyond the norm...Not that it wasn't tight.. I like it, (and I remember playing the Philidelphia '83 show over and over back in the day) but listening to it now, it tend to look at it as a sign that the band was on it's last leg. Performance wise, I think their best tour was Escape.

Yah, I've noticed that too, alot of their live performances with Smitty at the healm have faster tempos. Wheel In The Sky for instance wayyy too fast. Deen seems to drive home a more groove oriented beat at slower tempos. I think alot of the Journey tunes sound better at slightly slower tempos.

[brandonx76]

I kinda thought Smitty's playing during the Frontiers tour was over the top with Tempo's above and beyond the norm...Not that it wasn't tight.. I like it, (and I remember playing the Philidelphia '83 show over and over back in the day) but listening to it now, it tend to look at it as a sign that the band was on it's last leg. Performance wise, I think their best tour was Escape.

Yah, I've noticed that too, alot of their live performances with Smitty at the healm have faster tempos. Wheel In The Sky for instance wayyy too fast. Deen seems to drive home a more groove oriented beat at slower tempos. I think alot of the Journey tunes sound better at slightly slower tempos.

I was really only referring to the Frontiers tour...Smitty's version of Wheel in the Sky from Captured - it really doesn't get any better than that.

[Carlitto H@kk]

I kinda thought Smitty's playing during the Frontiers tour was over the top with Tempo's above and beyond the norm...Not that it wasn't tight.. I like it, (and I remember playing the Philidelphia '83 show over and over back in the day) but listening to it now, it tend to look at it as a sign that the band was on it's last leg. Performance wise, I think their best tour was Escape.

Yah, I've noticed that too, alot of their live performances with Smitty at the healm have faster tempos. Wheel In The Sky for instance wayyy too fast. Deen seems to drive home a more groove oriented beat at slower tempos. I think alot of the Journey tunes sound better at slightly slower tempos.

I was really only referring to the Frontiers tour...Smitty's version of Wheel in the Sky from Captured - it really doesn't get any better than that.

Journey playing songs at a quickened tempo throughout the FRONTIERS tour probably had nothing to do with Smitty.
They did the same thing on the ROR tour. Who knows, maybe they were trying to cram as many songs in as they could
into shorter set-times? Or maybe they played them faster for Perry so he could run thru them faster and not have to hit some of those higher
ranges, or at least shorten the intervals he had to hold them? this is the time period that his voice started to decline...

But ini decline or not, the FRONTIERS tour and some of the ROR boots I've heard are incredible!
Perry was and always will be the master.

[Jeremey]

True. If I understand correctly what I've read, Neal did try to stick up for Herbie, but in the end & under pressure, he went along with the rest of the band and their desires to oust Herbie. As a matter of fact, Herbie and Neal are still in business together even today and remain friends.

Question: I read somewhere on here that Herbie is involved with getting Arnel ready to tour..is that correct? I think it was in one of Jeremey's post where he overheard a phone conversation between JT and Herbie.. but not sure. Anyone have any info on this? It would be awesome if Herbie was involved with the band.

i believe there was somewhat of a power struggle between perry and herbie around the time of ROR and the band pretty much sided with perry at that point. i guess they felt perry could do more for their career at the time than herbie could, but hadn't herbie said in the CB interview that he would have ousted perry around the time of raised on radio anyway? a lot of what happened between the band at the time was a struggle for creative control over the sound and direction of the band.

regarding herbie being involved with journey at this point - i believe the answer is no. i know he is still communicating with the band, and converses with their current tour manager, but i don't believe he has any real hands on dealings with the band whatsoever at this point. from what i've read about herbie, and in the CB interview, i would think he would be even further away from the band at this point, having gone through tapegate, jeffgate, and now a 3rd new singer in 2 years.

[Rip Rokken]

i believe there was somewhat of a power struggle between perry and herbie around the time of ROR and the band pretty much sided with perry at that point.

I read an interview with Herbie (might have been very old, but I only saw it just several months ago), where he really seemed to rip on S.P., saying things like he never intended to tour for TBF. Maybe it was sour grapes?

I found the interview, but I'm guessing most here have already seen it:

http://members.cox.net/mrcarty/

Man, he really takes shots at S.P. on many levels!


Here's another interview where he mentions how they used to play the arcade game Defender backstage all the time:

http://www.sfweekly.com/2006-04-19/news ... e-journey/

[Jeremey]

I read an interview with Herbie (might have been very old, but I only saw it just several months ago), where he really seemed to rip on S.P., saying things like he never intended to tour for TBF. Maybe it was sour grapes?

I found the interview, but I'm guessing most here have already seen it:

http://members.cox.net/mrcarty/

Man, he really takes shots at S.P. on many levels!


Here's another interview where he mentions how they used to play the arcade game Defender backstage all the time:

http://www.sfweekly.com/2006-04-19/news ... e-journey/

Yeah, the CB interview should really be taken with a grain of salt, but there didn't appear to be any love lost between Perry and Herbie. I was really surprised at how protective he appeared to be regarding Schon in those interviews, though, where he was almost like a father figure to the guy. Herbie & Schon's ability to maintain that relationship through all the water under the bridge says a lot about how strong that bond must have been.

[larryfromnextdoor]

, jeffgate.

jeffgate? that cracks me up...

[Rip Rokken]

, jeffgate.

jeffgate? that cracks me up...

How about "STARgate JSS?"

[TRAGChick]

The look on Neal's face & the "connection" between him & Steve.....it's all right there - freeze it at mark 1:07....sigh....

I'm likin' the "Herbie Dance" & the Sound Guy's "Walk Like an Egyptian" hand thing.

Is it just me, or is there an "audio skip" in this song?

[lidobar]

[quote="Jeremey
i believe there was somewhat of a power struggle between perry and herbie around the time of ROR and the band pretty much sided with perry at that point. i guess they felt perry could do more for their career at the time than herbie could, but hadn't herbie said in the CB interview that he would have ousted perry around the time of raised on radio anyway? a lot of what happened between the band at the time was a struggle for creative control over the sound and direction of the band.

regarding herbie being involved with journey at this point - i believe the answer is no. i know he is still communicating with the band, and converses with their current tour manager, but i don't believe he has any real hands on dealings with the band whatsoever at this point. from what i've read about herbie, and in the CB interview, i would think he would be even further away from the band at this point, having gone through tapegate, jeffgate, and now a 3rd new singer in 2 years.[/quote]

you forgot to add jeremeygate!

[Jeremey]

you forgot to add jeremeygate!

I wouldn't even put me in there even as an astrisk or footnote to the band in anyway. Appreciate the sentiment though!

[brandonx76]

you forgot to add jeremeygate!

I wouldn't even put me in there even as an astrisk or footnote to the band in anyway. Appreciate the sentiment though!

Definitely a note worthy experience you had Jeremey. Quite amazing, actually.

[lidobar]

you forgot to add jeremeygate!

I wouldn't even put me in there even as an astrisk or footnote to the band in anyway. Appreciate the sentiment though!

I like that you post here often, you're our only link to our formerly well-loved band. I sorta live vicariously through you, meeting the band etc.. You made the right choice though, family first 'cause at the end of the day you can't hold or hug your work and it can't keep you warm at night. Rock on and good luck with the career n' family.