Us against the "other" Journey fans....

[chf34jmac]

Hey everybody! Over here in this thread! CHICK FIGHT!!!!



Just teasing, Carry on!

[bluejeangirl76]

Hey everybody! Over here in this thread! CHICK FIGHT!!!!

[chf34jmac]

BJG I have three words for you - Creamed Corn Wrestling!

[bluejeangirl76]

BJG I have three words for you - Creamed Corn Wrestling!

Okay, but I don't like creamed corn. Can we use the regular kind that comes in water instead?

[chf34jmac]

You'd have to ask your opponent. But I don't care what you wrestle in.

[fightingilliniJRNY]

Unless I'm missing something, you're making the same point I was. Except I'm taking about the PRESENT situation and you're bringing the past into it. Okay fine I will rephrase - NONE of the perry replacements drew audiences by themselves. There. We agree. Except now the SA and JSS fans are gonna jump on me for that and that's what I was going around the block to avoid since those days are over now anyway.

We're talking about Arnel and the future and whether Journey from this day forward will continue to get audiences.
And I'm say IF they do (which is sketchy in my opinion) is won't have jack shit to do with Arnel. The original question I was replying to was "Can [Arnel] draw the crowds?" and my answer was no.

I think we are saying the same thing. I just don't see the crowds getting any worse just because Arnel is singing.

[bluejeangirl76]

I think we are saying the same thing. I just don't see the crowds getting any worse just because Arnel is singing.

Yes, that's probably true, not because of him. If the crowds get worse it's because 10 years of the same 10 songs is getting fucking OLD. I was there last summer and what I saw was a total Def Leppard crowd who were more or less putting up with Neal and Company because there was no alternative. Granted I can only speak for the show I was at, but that's what was going on. The ONLY thing that generated any kind of big reaction from the majority during Journey's set was DSB. These people barely moved until DL came out. So as it is, I think the general folks are losing interest.

[Rick]

I think we are saying the same thing. I just don't see the crowds getting any worse just because Arnel is singing.

Yes, that's probably true, not because of him. If the crowds get worse it's because 10 years of the same 10 songs is getting fucking OLD. I was there last summer and what I saw was a total Def Leppard crowd who were more or less putting up with Neal and Company because there was no alternative. Granted I can only speak for the show I was at, but that's what was going on. The ONLY thing that generated any kind of big reaction from the majority during Journey's set was DSB. These people barely moved until DL came out. So as it is, I think the general folks are losing interest.

Yeah, it was different in Dallas. Dallas has always been good to Journey though. There were probably an equal amount of fans for each band, but Journey was better received. That was in July, right after Jeff started.

[bluejeangirl76]

I think we are saying the same thing. I just don't see the crowds getting any worse just because Arnel is singing.

Yes, that's probably true, not because of him. If the crowds get worse it's because 10 years of the same 10 songs is getting fucking OLD. I was there last summer and what I saw was a total Def Leppard crowd who were more or less putting up with Neal and Company because there was no alternative. Granted I can only speak for the show I was at, but that's what was going on. The ONLY thing that generated any kind of big reaction from the majority during Journey's set was DSB. These people barely moved until DL came out. So as it is, I think the general folks are losing interest.

Yeah, it was different in Dallas. Dallas has always been good to Journey though. There were probably an equal amount of fans for each band, but Journey was better received. That was in July, right after Jeff started.

And Chicago has always been GREAT to Journey. This time... wow, not no much.
Not that it was totally downhill or anything but... it was a DL crowd for sure.

[Rick]

I think we are saying the same thing. I just don't see the crowds getting any worse just because Arnel is singing.

Yes, that's probably true, not because of him. If the crowds get worse it's because 10 years of the same 10 songs is getting fucking OLD. I was there last summer and what I saw was a total Def Leppard crowd who were more or less putting up with Neal and Company because there was no alternative. Granted I can only speak for the show I was at, but that's what was going on. The ONLY thing that generated any kind of big reaction from the majority during Journey's set was DSB. These people barely moved until DL came out. So as it is, I think the general folks are losing interest.

Yeah, it was different in Dallas. Dallas has always been good to Journey though. There were probably an equal amount of fans for each band, but Journey was better received. That was in July, right after Jeff started.

And Chicago has always been GREAT to Journey. This time... wow, not no much.
Not that it was totally downhill or anything but... it was a DL crowd for sure.

Shows how much I know. I thought you were a CA girl.

[L~L~L]

I think everyone is tired of accepting a quick fix, I know I am. I don't think any future line ups will draw crowds no matter how many singers they bring in. We are all waiting for that miracle that wont happen. Nothing against Arnel am sure if he wasn't singer replacemnt # 9999999999999 and more like 2nd replacent we'd all be excited. None the less we shall see how this plays out in the media for I am just only one cyber fan.

[mistiejourney]

I think we are saying the same thing. I just don't see the crowds getting any worse just because Arnel is singing.

Yes, that's probably true, not because of him. If the crowds get worse it's because 10 years of the same 10 songs is getting fucking OLD. I was there last summer and what I saw was a total Def Leppard crowd who were more or less putting up with Neal and Company because there was no alternative. Granted I can only speak for the show I was at, but that's what was going on. The ONLY thing that generated any kind of big reaction from the majority during Journey's set was DSB. These people barely moved until DL came out. So as it is, I think the general folks are losing interest.

This is interesting because I felt it was the total opposite with the Journey/DL crowd but I was way up front so I may not have gotten the entire experience...AND this is San Francisco where Journey is solid gold all the time.

I remember reading that DL offered to switch places with J and go on first because it was Journey's home crowd! That was nice of them to offer!

[bluejeangirl76]

I don't think any future line ups will draw crowds no matter how many singers they bring in.

I think that's true. The interest will inevitably wane. Maybe moving on this way will speed that up (more) and maybe it won't. *shrug* I STILL say, they had a shot with JSS, because they could have done new recordings that were not blatantly trying to sound like Perry. That can't happen now. This guy has been signed on to be a faux-Perry. No way around that. IF we see a new record, my prediction is it's going to be a sad attempt to pretend it's 1983. I'll invoke the naked/freeway offer if they come out with anything new that does not sound Perryesque.

[Deb]

I don't think any future line ups will draw crowds no matter how many singers they bring in.

Nah, cuz they'll all be at JSS shows now! Bwaaahaaahaaa!

[bluejeangirl76]

I don't think any future line ups will draw crowds no matter how many singers they bring in.

Nah, cuz they'll all be at JSS shows now! Bwaaahaaahaaa!

Well, if they're both playing in my city on the same day, I can tell ya exactly where I will be.
And it will not be at the faux-Journey show.

[Jeremey]

I think Journey will draw very well because the name of the game in concert promotions nowadays is the package deal. the Journey name is still an important draw, and combined with a def leppard, aerosmith, or other big name act, there will be lots of tickets to sell. azoff has most of those bands on his roster now, and he's tied in pretty tight with livenation, which owns pretty much every major arena in the country these days. you put together a Journey/Aerosmith tour or something along those lines, and the band will still draw 15,000 people to every summer shed from spokane to west palm beach.

The singer isn't going to matter. Unfortunately, people aren't queing up to by Journey tix because of Neal Schon, Arnel Pineda, or anyone else in the band. They're buying tickets because they want to hear "Don't Stop Believin'," "Faithfully" and "Separate Ways." From Steve Augeri to JSS to AP, the singers are brought out to perform the classics in a way that still makes people feel good about spending $75 for a package show. For me, as I think a lot of people out there, Journey is a brand name that brings to mind a sound, a feeling, and the songs they created together. I may get pilloried for saying it, but it's a nostalgia thing, the same way that DLR and Van Halen are a nostalgia thing. The bulk of ticket buyers could care less about hearing new music...People will scream from the balcony, "Play something we know!!" if the band were to come out and put 3 new songs in an 80 minute set. Journey and Perry was a time, and a place, and a feeling that doesn't exist anymore. The band Journey since 1998 has struggled with the concept of being relevant without Perry, but I feel that now they've come to terms (not completely, but moreso than the past 10 years) with the fact that their job in the new millenium is to go out there and play the songs they wrote that people love and recapture that feeling on stage again....

[Saint John]

I think Journey will draw very well because the name of the game in concert promotions nowadays is the package deal. the Journey name is still an important draw, and combined with a def leppard, aerosmith, or other big name act, there will be lots of tickets to sell. azoff has most of those bands on his roster now, and he's tied in pretty tight with livenation, which owns pretty much every major arena in the country these days. you put together a Journey/Aerosmith tour or something along those lines, and the band will still draw 15,000 people to every summer shed from spokane to west palm beach.

The singer isn't going to matter. Unfortunately, people aren't queing up to by Journey tix because of Neal Schon, Arnel Pineda, or anyone else in the band. They're buying tickets because they want to hear "Don't Stop Believin'," "Faithfully" and "Separate Ways." From Steve Augeri to JSS to AP, the singers are brought out to perform the classics in a way that still makes people feel good about spending $75 for a package show. For me, as I think a lot of people out there, Journey is a brand name that brings to mind a sound, a feeling, and the songs they created together. I may get pilloried for saying it, but it's a nostalgia thing, the same way that DLR and Van Halen are a nostalgia thing. The bulk of ticket buyers could care less about hearing new music...People will scream from the balcony, "Play something we know!!" if the band were to come out and put 3 new songs in an 80 minute set. Journey and Perry was a time, and a place, and a feeling that doesn't exist anymore. The band Journey since 1998 has struggled with the concept of being relevant without Perry, but I feel that now they've come to terms (not completely, but moreso than the past 10 years) with the fact that their job in the new millenium is to go out there and play the songs they wrote that people love and recapture that feeling on stage again....

Precisely. Finally, someone that gets it. VH gets it too, which is exactly why they didn't even bother to record anything new before hitting the road. People just want to hear certain songs and those certain songs happen to be 20+ years old. Journey's in a bit of a different situation as it pertains to their singer, but since Perry has no interest in singing with them, they're giving us who they deem the best available person to do so.

[bluejeangirl76]

Journey and Perry was a time, and a place, and a feeling that doesn't exist anymore.

Exactly. All they really have left to bank on is the Greatest Hits carousel.

[heardonthestreet]

I think Journey will draw very well because the name of the game in concert promotions nowadays is the package deal. the Journey name is still an important draw, and combined with a def leppard, aerosmith, or other big name act, there will be lots of tickets to sell. azoff has most of those bands on his roster now, and he's tied in pretty tight with livenation, which owns pretty much every major arena in the country these days. you put together a Journey/Aerosmith tour or something along those lines, and the band will still draw 15,000 people to every summer shed from spokane to west palm beach.

The singer isn't going to matter. Unfortunately, people aren't queing up to by Journey tix because of Neal Schon, Arnel Pineda, or anyone else in the band. They're buying tickets because they want to hear "Don't Stop Believin'," "Faithfully" and "Separate Ways." From Steve Augeri to JSS to AP, the singers are brought out to perform the classics in a way that still makes people feel good about spending $75 for a package show. For me, as I think a lot of people out there, Journey is a brand name that brings to mind a sound, a feeling, and the songs they created together. I may get pilloried for saying it, but it's a nostalgia thing, the same way that DLR and Van Halen are a nostalgia thing. The bulk of ticket buyers could care less about hearing new music...People will scream from the balcony, "Play something we know!!" if the band were to come out and put 3 new songs in an 80 minute set. Journey and Perry was a time, and a place, and a feeling that doesn't exist anymore. The band Journey since 1998 has struggled with the concept of being relevant without Perry, but I feel that now they've come to terms (not completely, but moreso than the past 10 years) with the fact that their job in the new millenium is to go out there and play the songs they wrote that people love and recapture that feeling on stage again....

And that is "Bible" Couldn't agree more.

I do think though, that they are starting out with this premise and maybe hoping that something special may come of it.

[Jeremey]

And that is "Bible" Couldn't agree more.

I do think though, that they are starting out with this premise and maybe hoping that something special may come of it.

If they are hoping for the magical chemistry the trio of Perry/Cain/Schon brought from 1981-1987, then I worry that kind of pressure would just be self destructive. That magic and chemistry bit was thrown around a lot when I was out in CA, but in the same breath I was told, "Don't worry about it, we know what fans want, and we know what to write..." No one in that band denied the magic that Perry brought to the table though. I feel a lot of pressure to replicate that magic eventually wore Steve Augeri down, some pressure came from the fans, and I'm sure a lot of pressure came from within the band itself. If there's an organic rennaisance that can come out of the band at this point with Pineda, than more power to 'em. I really hope they don't put that kind of pressure and expectation on themselves or Pineda though.

[heardonthestreet]

'If there's an organic rennaisance that can come out of the band at this point with Pineda, than more power to 'em. I really hope they don't put that kind of pressure and expectation on themselves or Pineda though.'


If it's there, it will happen. It may be that Arnel himself will be the catalyst for this, just as Perry was and we all know, there was no holding Perry back. Time will tell. I think that Perry himself might like to see this; To see the potential of an artist at last get his chance.

[Jeremey]

If it's there, it will happen. It may be that Arnel himself will be the catalyst for this, just as Perry was and we all know, there was no holding Perry back. Time will tell. I think that Perry himself might like to see this; To see the potential of an artist at last get his chance.

I agree that if there's some sort of magic it will happen. My skepticism stems from the speed with which Journey wants to make up for lost ground over the past year of being off the road, and truly, having had an inside look at how the band writes, feel that the language barrier may impede the process of stirring up that magic. From what I've seen, and from what Augeri seemed to indicate, the process usually involves Jon bringing his demos to the table, and Neal bringing his demos to the table, and then the band following suit with whatever they're told to play.

[Red13JoePa]

From what I've seen, and from what Augeri seemed to indicate, the process usually involves Jon bringing his demos to the table, and Neal bringing his demos to the table, and then the band following suit with whatever they're told to play.

As it should be, at least sans perry. It should all START from those 2 writing partners and build from there.

[heardonthestreet]

If it's there, it will happen. It may be that Arnel himself will be the catalyst for this, just as Perry was and we all know, there was no holding Perry back. Time will tell. I think that Perry himself might like to see this; To see the potential of an artist at last get his chance.

I agree that if there's some sort of magic it will happen. My skepticism stems from the speed with which Journey wants to make up for lost ground over the past year of being off the road, and truly, having had an inside look at how the band writes, feel that the language barrier may impede the process of stirring up that magic. From what I've seen, and from what Augeri seemed to indicate, the process usually involves Jon bringing his demos to the table, and Neal bringing his demos to the table, and then the band following suit with whatever they're told to play.

Not trying to quibble with you Jeremey but maybe Arnels demos are better than both guys and as good as Perry's. Arnel has not made it this far without something of substance to bring to the table.

Always said that someone has to be as good as or better than Perry, to make it work. Not saying it couldn't happen but he has to have balls as big as Perry to not only have what it takes but also the ability to show the guys how to run with it.

[Jeremey]

As it should be, at least sans perry. It should all START from those 2 writing partners and build from there.

If they are trying to recapture magic with some new ingredient, though, they need to redefine what that magic is...I can't tell you how many times I heard "You know, I told Perry what to sing there," or "I showed him how to do that," and then turn around at the same time and hear "He just took those songs to a whole different level." So either he wasn't responsible for the magic or he was? If they break down that past expectation and start with something completely open and fresh and see what happens, that's the only way something organic and new could catch fire. Cain and Schon independently demo'ing songs and then pulling up 8 year old lyrics from a computer database & plugging them in & telling Pineda what to sing isn't the way to generate a lot of heat on any new material - I think from a time standpoint, any new material produced would fall into that catagory. Geez, the guy just came over and audition with the band 2 months ago, and already they're supposedly in the studio with Kevin Shirley...Does anyone think anything awe inspiring will come out of that?

[heardonthestreet]

From what I've seen, and from what Augeri seemed to indicate, the process usually involves Jon bringing his demos to the table, and Neal bringing his demos to the table, and then the band following suit with whatever they're told to play.

As it should be, at least sans perry. It should all START from those 2 writing partners and build from there.

IMO, Neal and Jon's latest efforts would indicate otherwise. They need help in a big way.

[Red13JoePa]

From what I've seen, and from what Augeri seemed to indicate, the process usually involves Jon bringing his demos to the table, and Neal bringing his demos to the table, and then the band following suit with whatever they're told to play.

As it should be, at least sans perry. It should all START from those 2 writing partners and build from there.

IMO, Neal and Jon's latest efforts would indicate otherwise. They need help in a big way.

I know, man, I know. But you don't like it when they rock, you're all about perry crooning period which is just lovely for you.

You probly hate this song, but I think the Schon/Cain penned The Place In Your Heart is as immediate and Journeyesque as the Schon/Cain/Perry compositions proving to me that it can begin with and be done by Schon/Cain.

[conversationpc]

You probly hate this song, but I think the Schon/Cain penned The Place In Your Heart is as immediate and Journeyesque as the Schon/Cain/Perry compositions proving to me that it can begin with and be done by Schon/Cain.

Agreed.

[heardonthestreet]

You probly hate this song, but I think the Schon/Cain penned The Place In Your Heart is as immediate and Journeyesque as the Schon/Cain/Perry compositions proving to me that it can begin with and be done by Schon/Cain.

Agreed.

I know that a lot of the fans like that song but to me it was just a remake of Open Arms lyrically without the big ballad appeal for a Journey song.

[conversationpc]

You probly hate this song, but I think the Schon/Cain penned The Place In Your Heart is as immediate and Journeyesque as the Schon/Cain/Perry compositions proving to me that it can begin with and be done by Schon/Cain.

Agreed.

I know that a lot of the fans like that song but to me it was just a remake of Open Arms lyrically without the big ballad appeal for a Journey song.

A remake of "Open Arms"? I don't get the comparison on that one at all.