This Forum Has Come Full Circle

[strangegrey]

Agreed. That band has been run into the ground in the worst way. It's like a car that was awesome when it was new, but it's been driven to death by people who don't really know how to drive that well. And the only part that will fix it is impossible to get, waaaayyyy too expensive, and unfortunately there's only one.

Great analogy...I was actually thinking of a similar one. A guy buys a 1959 Gibson Les Paul in 1959....keeps it under the bed until 1978....it's a work of art, worth thousands...

By the time 1986 comes around, he's routed out a tremolo for the bridge, stripped the lacquer off, painted stripes on it, etc....tossed the original PAF pickups in the garbage...replaced em with Dimarzio super distortions


Today, the same guitar, unmodified would bring over $450,000. His guitar, modified, is barely worth $500....

sometimes theres no turning back from stupidity.

[journeyrock]

Agreed. That band has been run into the ground in the worst way. It's like a car that was awesome when it was new, but it's been driven to death by people who don't really know how to drive that well. And the only part that will fix it is impossible to get, waaaayyyy too expensive, and unfortunately there's only one.

Today, the same guitar, unmodified would bring over $450,000. His guitar, modified, is barely worth $500....

sometimes theres no turning back from stupidity.

Isn't that what Perry said in 1998? Aw, the wisdom.

[Moon Beam]

Yeah, you should be so proud that the only people who give a shit any more are PerryHeads.

If that is somehow a victory, so be it.

Oh look it's Mr Monker Sunshine!

I know you weren't talking to me but that never really matters when it
comes to tossing in my two coppers.

[jrnyman28]

Perry bashing began because of the Journey bashing going on over Steve. The people who wanted to support Journey and Steve felt the need to "attack" the Perry fans and "their man". But for MOST, the never truly lost their respect for the man's talent. It seemed that most people overlooked it because of the two sides of fandom fighting.

I recall most Perry-bashing to be directed at the man and his decisions...not his vocal abilities. (Although there were a few).

TG certainly changed a lot of that for a lot of people. It got much harder to support Journey and Steve when faced with the evidence.

Then the JSS debacle kills those who were able to keep following the band through yet another change.

Now, what's left? It is far easier to remember the good...Perry-era being the largest example...than look forward with the way this band Journey has progressed.

[Monker]

Oh Monker...just put up the white flag and admit you were wrong all these years.

Wrong about what? Steve Perry should have never been allowed back into Journey for TBF. That album and the fiasco that followed is where all of this started.

The idea that a consensus has developed only because the people who share your take on Journey have lost interest in the band...well, that really is scraping the barrel, don't you think? There's pretty much the same bunch of people here as ever...

That is NOT what I said. I said that it seems the only people who give a shit are Perryheads. The bottom line is nobody wants to come out and challenge the absolute crap that Perryheads post on these forums. I really don't even feel like doing it any longer. If that is some kinda victory for you, so be it. I couldn't care less...just don't take what I said out of context.

If anything, the Perryheads are the most relaxed they've been in years whereas the Augeri faction is still spitting with resentment. Like you, I imagine....

Exactly...it's in your imagination. Hard to put it in any type of perspective when I hardly ever post at all.

[Monker]

Now they're deliberately trying to do it...that's the problem...

This whole forum (and others) are desperate for Perry to return and bring this band to a proper close....instead of watching Neal, Cain and their hired shitbags run this legacy any further into the ground.

Agreed. That band has been run into the ground in the worst way. It's like a car that was awesome when it was new, but it's been driven to death by people who don't really know how to drive that well. And the only part that will fix it is impossible to get, waaaayyyy too expensive, and unfortunately there's only one.

And, it's impossible, since Herbie is retired.

[Rick]

Steve Perry should have never been allowed back into Journey for TBF. That album and the fiasco that followed is where all of this started.

What other voice would have done that record better?

He didn't tour, no. But he did give us some great tunes off of that record. A couple anyway. I would have rather heard him on that record than anyone else.

[ArnelRox]

Steve Perry should have never been allowed back into Journey for TBF. That album and the fiasco that followed is where all of this started.

That's actually an interesting thought Monker. If they'd gone ahead w/Chalfant & Rolie, how would things have turned out? Better? I dunno.

[Matthew]

Wrong about what? Steve Perry should have never been allowed back into Journey for TBF. That album and the fiasco that followed is where all of this started.

I really don't where you get this conviction that a Chalfant/Rolie line-up would have been a success. For all his talent, Chalfant has barely made even a small ripple in the music industry and Rolie's solo career is 'niche' to put it politely.

That is NOT what I said. I said that it seems the only people who give a shit are Perryheads.

Oh he we go...another person regularly posting on a die hard Journey messageboard to keep telling everyone they don't 'give a shit' anymore. Do you tell the members of the Journey Digest group which you recently revived the same thing?

The bottom line is nobody wants to come out and challenge the absolute crap that Perryheads post on these forums. I really don't even feel like doing it any longer. If that is some kinda victory for you, so be it. I couldn't care less...just don't take what I said out of context.

And yet here you are now...arguing with a Perryhead...just like you always do.

I didn't take your remark out of context and in fact you've just repeated the very point you are denying you made: that the reason the board seems pro-Perry is not because people have come to their senses at long last after a decade of shoddy work and blundering decisions...it's people like you who 'challenge' the 'crap' can't be bothered to post any more.

[Crazie Scarab]

Steve Perry should have never been allowed back into Journey for TBF. That album and the fiasco that followed is where all of this started.

That's actually an interesting thought Monker. If they'd gone ahead w/Chalfant & Rolie, how would things have turned out? Better? I dunno.

Either way, I don't think it would've mattered. It's anyone's complete guess. That was a long time ago. Time to let it go.

[Monker]

Steve Perry should have never been allowed back into Journey for TBF. That album and the fiasco that followed is where all of this started.

What other voice would have done that record better?

He didn't tour, no. But he did give us some great tunes off of that record. A couple anyway. I would have rather heard him on that record than anyone else.

I have NO DOUBT that the Chalfant/Rollie lineup would have recorded a better album, and toured with it. TBF was mediocre at best....better then ROR, but not even close to all the hype it received.

[Monker]

I really don't where you get this conviction that a Chalfant/Rolie line-up would have been a success. For all his talent, Chalfant has barely made even a small ripple in the music industry and Rolie's solo career is 'niche' to put it politely.

With Herbie managing the band, following the success of the Storm, BE, and even a Perry album tour, people would have taken (and were TAKING) Journey in any form. And, like I said, they would have toured.

Oh he we go...another person regularly posting on a die hard Journey messageboard

I post a couple times a week...most of it not even related to Journey...

That is very different back when the entire Perry = Journey argument mattered to me.

Do you tell the members of the Journey Digest group which you recently revived the same thing?

You can be so ignorant at times:

"You know, it's interesting that any time a Journey forum lacks conversation
that all somebody has to do is post about ROR, Perry firing Smith/Valory,
alternate histories and "what ifs" regarding ROR and everthing that has
happened since.

It's a sorry state when so many are so ignorant, naive, or are just plain
stupid and can't accept that Steve Perry did not bring all of Journey's
success. it's just simply not true. Perriod. I don't care how many times
you want to quote Neal Schon...he could very easily fit in one of the
categories above as well.

All of these arguments referring to that timeframe give me too many "WTF?"
moments. Go ahead, ignore reality. The world is flat. 2 + 2 = 5. In the
big picture, it really doesn't matter any longer nowadays, does it?

Perry would rather remaster his voice from 25yrs ago, Journey would rather
mimic themselves from 25yrs ago. ROR is irrelevent to whatever happens next
with Journey - if anything happens at all. So is everything that followed
ROR. In the big picture, Journey's audience doesn't care about those
songs. All they want are GH...and if they are paying customers, I'm sure
Journey will be happen to perform them, and Perry will be happy to remaster
or repackage or whatever yet again.

That is the world we sit in...not a "Herbie was negotiated out" or
"Smith refused to adapt to the times" or "Steve Perry came into the band in
1978 and brought them all the success." All of which are complete BS."

In other words, people like you go about posting all of this crap, but none of it matters any longer because where we are sitting with Journey - today - makes all of those arguments obsolete. You will believe what you believe - no matter how wrong you are - and Perry will still release his recorded voice from 25yrs ago, instead of recording a new album...and Journey will still tour with those same songs.

Arguing about Steve Perry did this and that is VERY irrelevant to me nowadays.

I didn't take your remark out of context and in fact you've just repeated the very point you are denying you made: that the reason the board seems pro-Perry is not because people have come to their senses at long last after a decade of shoddy work and blundering decisions...it's people like you who 'challenge' the 'crap' can't be bothered to post any more.

That is NOT what I am saying. I am saying they don't give a shit any longer. They post, they just don't get into the "Perry isn't God" arguments..

[Monker]

Steve Perry should have never been allowed back into Journey for TBF. That album and the fiasco that followed is where all of this started.

That's actually an interesting thought Monker. If they'd gone ahead w/Chalfant & Rolie, how would things have turned out? Better? I dunno.

Either way, I don't think it would've mattered. It's anyone's complete guess. That was a long time ago. Time to let it go.

Yes, it's true that it's a complete guess...But, I doubt, VERY much, that things would have gone any worse then what happened following the release of TBF.

[Matthew]

With Herbie managing the band, following the success of the Storm, BE, and even a Perry album tour, people would have taken (and were TAKING) Journey in any form. And, like I said, they would have toured.

The success of the Storm? Okay - they had one big hit single and a support slot with Bryan Adams in 1991...but their second album in 1993 couldn't even get a release until the record company belatedly put it out with no promotion to slipstream the TBF album.

I post a couple times a week...most of it not even related to Journey...

That is very different back when the entire Perry = Journey argument mattered to me.

Well, it still matters enough to inspire you to chime into this thread....

You can be so ignorant at times:

" Go ahead, ignore reality. The world is flat. 2 + 2 = 5. In the
big picture, it really doesn't matter any longer nowadays, does it?

I've read this post before...and yes, it was at the Journey discussion forum which you - who claims not to care enough to discuss Journey anymore - recently revived and are currently advertising with your avatar.

In other words, people like you go about posting all of this crap, but none of it matters any longer because where we are sitting with Journey - today - makes all of those arguments obsolete.

No. Where Journey sits today entirely justifies all the protests and dire predictions which the Perryheads made all those years ago...and which you devoted an enormous amount of energy arguing against. But even now - despite the resounding failure and embarassment of the post-Perry experiment - you are as stubborn as ever. Except now that reality has made a mockery of your arguments you are resorting to the tactics of a small child who has got whupped at a board game...."Yeah, well, I don't care anyway and I don't want to play anymore..." etc.

That is NOT what I am saying. I am saying they don't give a shit any longer. They post, they just don't get into the "Perry isn't God" arguments..

This isn't about whether or not Perry is God-like. You see...that remark right there reveals the bitterness you still feel inside, Monker.

Sure, some people don't give a shit anymore - posters like A Fire Inside have genuinely lost interest it seems - but other staunch Augeri supporters (mentioning no names) have had the courage to to admit that if Journey want success...it just can't be achieved without Perry. It's been like that since the 1970s and it remains true to this day...no matter how hard you to try to ignore the cold, hard facts of the matter or peddle some half-baked fantasy about 'what could have been'.