Should true Journey fans love every version of Journey?

[Crazie Scarab]

Dumb fuck, count your posts. I've been here since the begining have almost zero post. You've been here since last week and have almost 5000. Fuck you and get a life. Everyone knows my opinion but I live and let live ...

We are all well aware, many times over, on your position. GEEZ!

We're all aware of ur position too. It hasnt stopped u from stating it again .... & again .... & again.

She's been around here. Let that shit go.

I love u too Brian. Thanks.

We may disagree about Arnel, but I know you are true to heart & passionate about Journey. It's all good!

[Saint John]

This is a very small bar stage too. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZNN4Z_ZSOI

JSS has a certain charismatic confidence that shows even in youtube vids that I just don't see in Arnel. But to each his own, you'll never sell me and I'll never sell you.....on who is the better frontman. We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

Jeff absolutely KILLED on a small stage in La Plata, MD recently. Then the larger stage in South Bend just gave him more room. A small stage means NOTHING. Showmanship, charisma, and stage presence come through regardless.

Post them...let's see the crowd(s).

Now Dan, crowd size has nothing to do with the performance. They just needed better promotion to get the people out there!!!!

Crowd size is indicative of interest...which to an artist is the ONLY thing that counts. What good is it if you "KILLED" on stage if no one is there?

Actually, SJ, in some cases KILLING onstage to a miniscule crowd can turn into a good thing. We are now two months out from Jeff's little set here (all truth told, he and the band played to a whoppin twenty/twenty-five people) and word of mouth has taken hold of a wide variety amongst the populace. The kids are starting to talk about him (I took my son with me to the set and he's shared his thoughts and the music with his 100+ bandmates), I know I've talked him up to many people here locally and across the nation who are now buying his music and watching for him to come to their areas. I KNOW Crazy Deb is talking him up every single chance she gets. To hear so many different people talking about and listening to his music is a strange thing down here (mainly tejano, country and some metal edge amongst the adults and that crap they call music out of the rap people for the kids). It's definitely catching.
In my view, though this is just a very small example, if it carried out across the nation from the small level, it will eventually explode despite the music industry's wishes.

I agree with your post...your example(s) are the exception(s).

[StevePerryHair]

I would like to get fre tickets just to see it blow up, I wont be buying them

I have the informed opinion that Arnel is mediocre as a full package. Very good voice, ZERO stage presence, and it's going to be hilarious when he tries to address an ampitheater (really a state fair) crowd.

This is going to be a trainwreck.

I bet that Arnel is more impressive than JSS but very short of Perry, but then who wouldn't be?

more impressive than what ?? JSS' singing and stage performance? hardly,,, Soto was the complete package,, writer, performer, AND vocalist.. amazing vocalists..

If JSS was the complete package, he would be on top of things right now. As it is, he will always be filling in and still looking for a band to front. Imo, he's kinda like a "Rent All." Nothing stands out, or like he's not outstanding, imo. Journey was rough around the edges with him and I'm wondering if Arnel can give them the touch of class that Perry gave them. Have to wait and see.

AAAAARRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH!

Sorry, sorta lost it there!

Don't be sorry! I can appreciate your feelings on this. I have to say that if JSS is as great as many of you feel he is, he should be in a better position than what he is. A band the likes of Journey should have been doing the wine and rose's thing. Has anyone picked up on the exposure he had while filling in for their ailing frontman and said, " Hey, if Journey can't use him, we want him? Is he as underated as a musician as Schon is? Only uou're hairdresser know's for sure?

Jeff's reviews with Journey were blockbuster. 'Nuff said.

The reviews you saw were. C'mon, use your head...Journey didn't sack Jeff because he was too good. You fuckers are too much. What a joke. Listen to the boots. Missed notes. Deen filling in on the high parts. It's obvious. This isn't Arnel vs. Jeff...it's Jeff vs. the catalog. He lost...just couldn't do it. Move on...Arnel's turn to try...nothing more.

Dan, Dan, Dan!!!!!!! Jeff was not good, he was GREAT! And you did not see him in Florida!!! I wish you had!! The entire band was sooooo excited at the meet and greet because it was a perfect show!! Jeff nailed it and they all knew it!! You have no idea!!!

[ArnelRox]

BTW, how are u feeling now? Have things settled down for you? Sure hope things are going well...

Thanks lovely lady. I'm feeling really good the last few days & taking everything one day at a time. When I'm feeling ok, I'm here, u know that

[Matthew]

I think too many people are overly concerned about "range" and "hitting Perry's High notes"
in these back and forth discussions of Arnel this, Jeff that, Augeri this, Perry that...

Who really give's a rat's hairy ass if ANY of them can hit those high notes???
Hell, The FRONTIERS and ROR tours were absolutely FABULOUS and Perry
couldn't even hit those notes anymore and didn't have the range he used to.

It's about personality. It's about Stage presence. It's about Charisma.
It's about putting heart, soul and total emotion into every word.
It's about taking these over-played, tired songs and making them exciting and fresh.
It's about being able to get fans on their feet and screaming with excitement with
just a look, w/o singing a single note... It's the "It" factor. It's the "X" factor.

Augeri had it for awhile at first. Jeff has it. Perry... he broke the fucking mold!!!

Can this guy Arnel do all that??? I could care less if he "sounds" just like Perry
or if he can "hit those high notes!" I got DVDs and CDs of Perry doing all that!

I want fresh! I want to be TRULY entertained! I want to be blown away with
something that "sounds like Journey" but has taken that "Journey Sound" to another
plane of existence!

Can Arnel do that???

Someone?
Anyone???

Hey CH - good to see you back!

I don't think anyone is capable of taking Journey to another plane of existence. It's more realistic to ask...is this the best second-rate version of the band they are capable of putting together?

And from the You Tube clips alone...I'd say there's a good chance Arnel is their best option right now...despite the concerns over the stage presence.

[Andrew]

Don't be sorry! I can appreciate your feelings on this. I have to say that if JSS is as great as many of you feel he is, he should be in a better position than what he is.

Complete poppycock. If this industry...this assbckwards business was about talent, JSS would be a household name and the likes of Titny Spears would be playing a strip club in Vegas; 50 Cent would be emptying trash cans in east LA and The Spice Girls would be available for hire per hour.

It isn't always about the talent.

[Andrew]

Wasn't this an ugly Vulcan chick on Star Trek Generations? Sorry that is ridiculous.

C'mon, let's not keep making this about Arnel again and again...

To everyone - give the guy a break at this point in time.

[mistiejourney]

The songs looked like they were sung in three different languages: English, Tagalog (?) and Spanish - if I read the titles correctly.

If there is a site that has samples of the songs, I'd be willing to check them out.

I will say Arnel looks much better as a brunette, though.

Here u go, this site has his solo album but it's always slowloading (or u could just ask me if u really want to hear them):

http://music.sina.com.cn/yueku/s/12484.html

Yes some songs are in his language, Tagalog, & one is called "Mi Vida, Mi Amor".

I think he looks better as a brunette too, especially w/his hair longer, but I always like long hair on me & I'm sure that's in the minority.

LOL - I just spent twenty minutes trying to find a site that would allow me to listen to Arnel outside of a You Tube and you had posted the links! I watched the You Tube for "Too Satisfied" and "Free Bird" and I alternated between "Oooo, that's rough" to "Whoa, that's cool!" and back again within seconds. The other site loaded so I'll go see if it will let me hear the album...no, it's not playing...the You Tubes are horrible sounding - I tried listening to non-Journey songs so that I could be objective. I don't think You Tubes are the best soundwise.

What I did hear tells me what I've thought before, with listening to the Journey covers - lots of potential, really good vocals at times, some sound strained or forced. He can sing, and while I wasn't knocked out I would not write him off. I am surprised that he hasn't had any recent releases.

(You should have seen me trying to navigate amazon.com Japan and amazon.com China....luckily all the pages are set up the same...)

[Andrew]

If this guy had Steve Perry's EXACT voice would he be the right choice?

AR - last time you started this it cost you a week. ENOUGH.

[mistiejourney]

The songs looked like they were sung in three different languages: English, Tagalog (?) and Spanish - if I read the titles correctly.

If there is a site that has samples of the songs, I'd be willing to check them out.

I will say Arnel looks much better as a brunette, though.

Here u go, this site has his solo album but it's always slowloading (or u could just ask me if u really want to hear them):

http://music.sina.com.cn/yueku/s/12484.html

Yes some songs are in his language, Tagalog, & one is called "Mi Vida, Mi Amor".

I think he looks better as a brunette too, especially w/his hair longer, but I always like long hair on me & I'm sure that's in the minority.

I'll go for long hair every time!

[Aaron]

Gran,

Thanks for the note. I think we're all pretty knowledgable about Journey. All I'm saying is we all know and have heard Arnel'sBitch's position again and again. We got on the first pass, let alone the 58,292 time.

L8r,

Aaron

Dumb fuck, count your posts. I've been here since the begining have almost zero post. You've been here since last week and have almost 5000. Fuck you and get a life. Everyone knows my opinion but I live and let live ...

We are all well aware, many times over, on your position. GEEZ!

We're all aware of ur position too. It hasnt stopped u from stating it again .... & again .... & again.

She's been around here. Let that shit go.

I love u too Brian. Thanks.

Aaron----Susie is quite knowledgeable about Journey and has been around here for a long time. she just took a break for a few months....

BTW, how are u feeling now? Have things settled down for you? Sure hope things are going well...

[Carlitto H@kk]

Don't be sorry! I can appreciate your feelings on this. I have to say that if JSS is as great as many of you feel he is, he should be in a better position than what he is.

Complete poppycock. If this industry...this assbckwards business was about talent, JSS would be a household name and the likes of Titny Spears would be playing a strip club in Vegas; 50 Cent would be emptying trash cans in east LA and The Spice Girls would be available for hire per hour.

It isn't always about the talent.

What are you saying, Drew???

Are you saying 90% of popular music is molded/fabricated/assembled/plugged/pushed thru the system
and force-fed down our throats by the likes of Corporate Radio and and Big Money Media????

Holy Shit?!?!?!?! Talent isn't important?!?!?!? Paris didn't write all her own songs?!?!?!?

Drew, as always, you hit the nail on the head!

30 years ago when talent, TRUE ability and touring counted most, Jeff wouda been HUGE!
Nowadays... it's a shame where this biz has gone.

[Andrew]

Dumb fuck, count your posts. I've been here since the begining have almost zero post. You've been here since last week and have almost 5000. Fuck you and get a life. Everyone knows my opinion but I live and let live ...

Enough please... There is better ways to argue a point.

[ArnelRox]

the You Tubes are horrible sounding - I tried listening to non-Journey songs so that I could be objective. I don't think You Tubes are the best soundwise.

They're not. YouTube must do something during the compression b/c it takes a lot away from the actual sound quality I noticed. They're also not shot on pro equipment.

some sound strained or forced.

Keep in mind some of them are at almost 3 a.m. after he's been performing for 5 hours. That's tough on any voice.

I am surprised that he hasn't had any recent releases.

The Zoo's album just came out in September of this year.

Hey thanks a lot for checking him out & giving feedback from that perspective.

[Carlitto H@kk]

All I'm saying is we all know and have heard Arnel'sBitch's position again and again. We got on the first pass, let alone the 58,292 time.

Dude, don't know you and don't care how long you been around...

Totally uncalled for and pathetic.
You don't agree, steer clear of her posts.

Suzer's a pretty special lady that doesn't need that kind of shit
just because YOU don't like her opinions.

Grow up...

[Matthew]

What are you saying, Drew???

Are you saying 90% of popular music is molded/fabricated/assembled/plugged/pushed thru the system
and force-fed down our throats by the likes of Corporate Radio and and Big Money Media????

Holy Shit?!?!?!?! Talent isn't important?!?!?!? Paris didn't write all her own songs?!?!?!?

Drew, as always, you hit the nail on the head!

30 years ago when talent, TRUE ability and touring counted most, Jeff wouda been HUGE!
Nowadays... it's a shame where this biz has gone.

Except true ability and touring was also important in the 1980s...and JSS struggled to make an impact even then. And according to JSS it was because he didn't conform to the look A+R guys thought was necessary to appeal to the ordinary American.

[Crazie Scarab]

Don't be sorry! I can appreciate your feelings on this. I have to say that if JSS is as great as many of you feel he is, he should be in a better position than what he is.

Complete poppycock. If this industry...this assbckwards business was about talent, JSS would be a household name and the likes of Titny Spears would be playing a strip club in Vegas; 50 Cent would be emptying trash cans in east LA and The Spice Girls would be available for hire per hour.

It isn't always about the talent.

Nice response, Andrew. And, so true. Titny Spears? More like, Cockroach Twat Spears!

[ArnelRox]

All I'm saying is we all know and have heard Arnel'sBitch's position again and again. We got on the first pass, let alone the 58,292 time.

Dude, don't know you and don't care how long you been around...

Totally uncalled for and pathetic.
You don't agree, steer clear of her posts.

Suzer's a pretty special lady that doesn't need that kind of shit
just because YOU don't like her opinions.

Grow up...

Thank u Carl but ur way more special than I could ever be

[Matthew]

Don't be sorry! I can appreciate your feelings on this. I have to say that if JSS is as great as many of you feel he is, he should be in a better position than what he is.

Complete poppycock. If this industry...this assbckwards business was about talent, JSS would be a household name and the likes of Titny Spears would be playing a strip club in Vegas; 50 Cent would be emptying trash cans in east LA and The Spice Girls would be available for hire per hour.

It isn't always about the talent.

Nice response, Andrew. And, so true. Titny Spears? More like, Cockroach Twat Spears!

Again...there were plenty of bubblegum pop acts in the 1950s and 1960s. I'm not sure all this old fart 'it was better in my day' chat is entirely accurate....

[Deb]

I think too many people are overly concerned about "range" and "hitting Perry's High notes"
in these back and forth discussions of Arnel this, Jeff that, Augeri this, Perry that...

Who really give's a rat's hairy ass if ANY of them can hit those high notes???
Hell, The FRONTIERS and ROR tours were absolutely FABULOUS and Perry
couldn't even hit those notes anymore and didn't have the range he used to.

It's about personality. It's about Stage presence. It's about Charisma.
It's about putting heart, soul and total emotion into every word.
It's about taking these over-played, tired songs and making them exciting and fresh.
It's about being able to get fans on their feet and screaming with excitement with
just a look, w/o singing a single note... It's the "It" factor. It's the "X" factor.

Augeri had it for awhile at first. Jeff has it. Perry... he broke the fucking mold!!!

Can this guy Arnel do all that??? I could care less if he "sounds" just like Perry
or if he can "hit those high notes!" I got DVDs and CDs of Perry doing all that!

I want fresh! I want to be TRULY entertained! I want to be blown away with
something that "sounds like Journey" but has taken that "Journey Sound" to another
plane of existence!

Can Arnel do that???

Someone?
Anyone???

OMG, love this post! Ya took the words right out of my mouth Carl! It's never been about the range or high notes for me either. It's all about the heart, soul and passion of how they're delivered. No one did it like Perry, but JSS brought a new refreshing excitement to Journey. The part that turns me off the most about Arnel (and I honestly have nothing against the guy, wish him all the best, just doesn't do it for me)....is that no matter who's songs he is singing, he manufactures his voice to sound exactly like them, i.e., Bryan Adams, Steve Perry, Michael Sweet, Bon Jovi. He has no originality or uniqueness for me. Which I thought Perry and JSS brought to Journey in spades. All 3 of my favorite singers are very different vocally (SP, JSS, EM) but all deliver music with soul/passion that is a #1 requirement in my books.

[Carlitto H@kk]

What are you saying, Drew???

Are you saying 90% of popular music is molded/fabricated/assembled/plugged/pushed thru the system
and force-fed down our throats by the likes of Corporate Radio and and Big Money Media????

Holy Shit?!?!?!?! Talent isn't important?!?!?!? Paris didn't write all her own songs?!?!?!?

Drew, as always, you hit the nail on the head!

30 years ago when talent, TRUE ability and touring counted most, Jeff wouda been HUGE!
Nowadays... it's a shame where this biz has gone.

Except true ability and touring was also important in the 1980s...and JSS struggled to make an impact even then. And according to JSS it was because he didn't conform to the look A+R guys thought was necessary to appeal to the ordinary American.

Exactly my point. by the mid-to-late 80s and early 90s, the Rock music scene was in a flux. Hair bands reigned but were slowly losing momentum by 89-90. And then Alternative and Grunge killed everyone not named Metallica, Guns&Roses or Ozzy. jeff always had the talent to be a huge talent or frontman of a huge band; I think he just kept getting screwed by timing, fads, crazes and "popular opinion".

[ArnelRox]

Again...there were plenty of bubblegum pop acts in the 1950s and 1960s. I'm not sure all this old fart 'it was better in my day' chat is entirely accurate....

Yeah but it WAS possible for talent to get record deals back then. Now it takes looks & the ability to lip synch, let's face it. The only other way to make it is to get on American Idol.

[mistiejourney]

Don't be sorry! I can appreciate your feelings on this. I have to say that if JSS is as great as many of you feel he is, he should be in a better position than what he is.

Complete poppycock. If this industry...this assbckwards business was about talent, JSS would be a household name and the likes of Titny Spears would be playing a strip club in Vegas; 50 Cent would be emptying trash cans in east LA and The Spice Girls would be available for hire per hour.

It isn't always about the talent.

Andrew, you da bomb!!!

[Saint John]

I would like to get fre tickets just to see it blow up, I wont be buying them

I have the informed opinion that Arnel is mediocre as a full package. Very good voice, ZERO stage presence, and it's going to be hilarious when he tries to address an ampitheater (really a state fair) crowd.

This is going to be a trainwreck.

I bet that Arnel is more impressive than JSS but very short of Perry, but then who wouldn't be?

more impressive than what ?? JSS' singing and stage performance? hardly,,, Soto was the complete package,, writer, performer, AND vocalist.. amazing vocalists..

If JSS was the complete package, he would be on top of things right now. As it is, he will always be filling in and still looking for a band to front. Imo, he's kinda like a "Rent All." Nothing stands out, or like he's not outstanding, imo. Journey was rough around the edges with him and I'm wondering if Arnel can give them the touch of class that Perry gave them. Have to wait and see.

AAAAARRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH!

Sorry, sorta lost it there!

Don't be sorry! I can appreciate your feelings on this. I have to say that if JSS is as great as many of you feel he is, he should be in a better position than what he is. A band the likes of Journey should have been doing the wine and rose's thing. Has anyone picked up on the exposure he had while filling in for their ailing frontman and said, " Hey, if Journey can't use him, we want him? Is he as underated as a musician as Schon is? Only uou're hairdresser know's for sure?

Jeff's reviews with Journey were blockbuster. 'Nuff said.

The reviews you saw were. C'mon, use your head...Journey didn't sack Jeff because he was too good. You fuckers are too much. What a joke. Listen to the boots. Missed notes. Deen filling in on the high parts. It's obvious. This isn't Arnel vs. Jeff...it's Jeff vs. the catalog. He lost...just couldn't do it. Move on...Arnel's turn to try...nothing more.

Dan, Dan, Dan!!!!!!! Jeff was not good, he was GREAT! And you did not see him in Florida!!! I wish you had!! The entire band was sooooo excited at the meet and greet because it was a perfect show!! Jeff nailed it and they all knew it!! You have no idea!!!

Ultimately, the time you had is all that counts. However, I'll challenge a musical audience of impartial experts and I'd bet my ball sack that they could point out missed notes, Deen's fill-ins, and other criteria that lead Journey to the decision they made. And the retarded argument that Arnel eats dogs won't change that.

[mistiejourney]

the You Tubes are horrible sounding - I tried listening to non-Journey songs so that I could be objective. I don't think You Tubes are the best soundwise.

They're not. YouTube must do something during the compression b/c it takes a lot away from the actual sound quality I noticed. They're also not shot on pro equipment.

some sound strained or forced.

Keep in mind some of them are at almost 3 a.m. after he's been performing for 5 hours. That's tough on any voice.

I am surprised that he hasn't had any recent releases.

The Zoo's album just came out in September of this year.

Hey thanks a lot for checking him out & giving feedback from that perspective.

Zoology is a recent release?? I saw he had long hair so I figured it was a few years old. Had no idea it was so recent - that's just two months!

Like I said, nothing against Arnel. I hope that behind that exterior is a will of steel - and the ability to stand up to Friga and Fro when he needs to. I just have a really bad feeling about this, and it is not Arnel's fault.

[StevePerryHair]

Ultimately, the time you had is all that counts. However, I'll challenge a musical audience of impartial experts and I'd bet my ball sack that they could point out missed notes, Deen's fill-ins, and other criteria that lead Journey to the decision they made. And the retarded argument that Arnel eats dogs won't change that.

I hate to see you lose your ball sack Seriously though, ANY singer singing live can miss a note here or there. I heard him sing "Opened the Door" and it was PERFECT!! Beautiful in fact. He hit notes I never knew he could hit!!! I am not an Arnel basher either. I just feel cheated with Jeff not getting more time.

[Crazie Scarab]

Don't be sorry! I can appreciate your feelings on this. I have to say that if JSS is as great as many of you feel he is, he should be in a better position than what he is.

Complete poppycock. If this industry...this assbckwards business was about talent, JSS would be a household name and the likes of Titny Spears would be playing a strip club in Vegas; 50 Cent would be emptying trash cans in east LA and The Spice Girls would be available for hire per hour.

It isn't always about the talent.

Nice response, Andrew. And, so true. Titny Spears? More like, Cockroach Twat Spears!

Again...there were plenty of bubblegum pop acts in the 1950s and 1960s. I'm not sure all this old fart 'it was better in my day' chat is entirely accurate....

I'm not sure of exactly what you mean? But then, it doesn't matter. Does it?

[ArnelRox]

Zoology is a recent release?? I saw he had long hair so I figured it was a few years old. Had no idea it was so recent - that's just two months!

Like I said, nothing against Arnel. I hope that behind that exterior is a will of steel - and the ability to stand up to Friga and Fro when he needs to. I just have a really bad feeling about this, and it is not Arnel's fault.

Yeah if u look at the more recent dates on YouTube, his hair gets longer & longer. I have a really good feeling about this but I think I'm alone on this board. Oh well!

[mistiejourney]

Zoology is a recent release?? I saw he had long hair so I figured it was a few years old. Had no idea it was so recent - that's just two months!

Like I said, nothing against Arnel. I hope that behind that exterior is a will of steel - and the ability to stand up to Friga and Fro when he needs to. I just have a really bad feeling about this, and it is not Arnel's fault.

Yeah if u look at the more recent dates on YouTube, his hair gets longer & longer. I have a really good feeling about this but I think I'm alone on this board. Oh well!

So we get a different perspective, nothing wrong with that!

[Matthew]

Again...there were plenty of bubblegum pop acts in the 1950s and 1960s. I'm not sure all this old fart 'it was better in my day' chat is entirely accurate....

Yeah but it WAS possible for talent to get record deals back then. Now it takes looks & the ability to lip synch, let's face it. The only other way to make it is to get on American Idol.

Well, I've just seen a band called Porcupine Tree who are signed to Atlantic Records in the US...and they were utterly brilliant...and they are right up there with the classic rock acts of the 70s and 80s. No, they aren't on national TV every five minutes but the market has changed. The mass-market has become more commercialized than it ever has been but the niche bands can still develop a strong, fanatical following which allows the artist to record and play whatever they want if they have the inspiration to do so.

And look at Radiohead...who record whatever tthey like and have refused to sign with a major label and are selling their new album direct to the fans...allowing the fans to pay whatever they like for the digital download...and producing a lavish box set edition for the die-hards.

My point is that it isn't all doom and gloom...and it isn't enough anymore tio just blame the industry. For every American Idol contestant there's a band out there doing something exciting and fresh - and enjoying a creative freedom that wasn't often tolerated back then.

And also - most people outside this forum - think the music we love and talk about is cynical music made fotr the mass-market. Melodic rock has always had a strong pop element and I can think of plenty of hard rock/AOR artists who found success due to their lookds rather than their talent.