Should true Journey fans love every version of Journey?

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Postby Saint John » Thu Nov 22, 2007 3:03 pm

StevePerryHair wrote:
Saint John wrote:Ultimately, the time you had is all that counts. However, I'll challenge a musical audience of impartial experts and I'd bet my ball sack that they could point out missed notes, Deen's fill-ins, and other criteria that lead Journey to the decision they made. And the retarded argument that Arnel eats dogs won't change that. :idea:


I hate to see you lose your ball sack :lol: Seriously though, ANY singer singing live can miss a note here or there. I heard him sing "Opened the Door" and it was PERFECT!! Beautiful in fact. He hit notes I never knew he could hit!!! I am not an Arnel basher either. I just feel cheated with Jeff not getting more time.


And I respect the shit out of you for posts like this, darling. You're Melissa...right? :wink: :lol: :evil: :P
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Postby StevePerryHair » Thu Nov 22, 2007 3:03 pm

Saint John wrote:
StevePerryHair wrote:
Saint John wrote:Ultimately, the time you had is all that counts. However, I'll challenge a musical audience of impartial experts and I'd bet my ball sack that they could point out missed notes, Deen's fill-ins, and other criteria that lead Journey to the decision they made. And the retarded argument that Arnel eats dogs won't change that. :idea:


I hate to see you lose your ball sack :lol: Seriously though, ANY singer singing live can miss a note here or there. I heard him sing "Opened the Door" and it was PERFECT!! Beautiful in fact. He hit notes I never knew he could hit!!! I am not an Arnel basher either. I just feel cheated with Jeff not getting more time.


And I respect the shit out of you for posts like this, darling. You're Melissa...right? :wink: :lol: :evil: :P


:evil: :evil: :P :lol:
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Postby Matthew » Thu Nov 22, 2007 3:04 pm

Crazie Scarab wrote:
Matthew wrote:
Crazie Scarab wrote:
Andrew wrote:
heardonthestreet wrote:
Don't be sorry! I can appreciate your feelings on this. I have to say that if JSS is as great as many of you feel he is, he should be in a better position than what he is.


Complete poppycock. If this industry...this assbckwards business was about talent, JSS would be a household name and the likes of Titny Spears would be playing a strip club in Vegas; 50 Cent would be emptying trash cans in east LA and The Spice Girls would be available for hire per hour.

It isn't always about the talent.


Nice response, Andrew. And, so true. Titny Spears? More like, Cockroach Twat Spears!



Again...there were plenty of bubblegum pop acts in the 1950s and 1960s. I'm not sure all this old fart 'it was better in my day' chat is entirely accurate....


I'm not sure of exactly what you mean? But then, it doesn't matter. Does it?


My point wasd that you can't blame JSS's obscurity on the rise of Britney. There were plenty of Britneys in the good old days too....
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Postby AR » Thu Nov 22, 2007 3:06 pm

Andrew wrote:
AR wrote:If this guy had Steve Perry's EXACT voice would he be the right choice?



AR - last time you started this it cost you a week. ENOUGH.


Oh c'mon I AM behaving myself.
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Postby Matthew » Thu Nov 22, 2007 3:07 pm

Deb wrote: All 3 of my favorite singers are very different vocally (SP, JSS, EM) but all deliver music with soul/passion that is a #1 requirement in my books.


Who's EM, DEb?
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Postby Deb » Thu Nov 22, 2007 3:07 pm

StevePerryHair wrote:
Deb wrote:
ArnelRox wrote:
Deb wrote:But come on Suz, as far as stage presence goes, it's going to be pretty damn hard to follow JSS. IMO, JSS just commanded the stage in much the same way Perry, Mercury(RIP), Tyler, Roth, Hutchins(RIP) did/do. I just don't see that charismatic confidence........in Arnel.


Actually Deb, w/all due respect, I assume u mean u havent seen it in the YouTube videos u may have watched performed on very small stages in Asia. Maybe Arnel's stage presence will never suit u but dont judge him based on YouTube.


This is a very small bar stage too. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZNN4Z_ZSOI

JSS has a certain charismatic confidence that shows even in youtube vids that I just don't see in Arnel. But to each his own, you'll never sell me and I'll never sell you.....on who is the better frontman. We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. :)

By the way, what are your thoughts on Eric Martin/Mr. Big. Vocally I think he's THE SHIT, he's got a vocal tone/timbre I really like.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=is3c54o3hcg


I love Eric Martin Deb!! I wish he had done more in SB!!!!!


Agreed, 3 songs wasn't near enough. Wished he had a set of his own like JSS. LOL, I was a like a little kid on poprocks when I found out they were both going to be performing at the same show. Couldn't have been happier, ok....maybe unless Perry was performing too. Image
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Postby Crazie Scarab » Thu Nov 22, 2007 3:07 pm

ArnelRox wrote:
Matthew wrote:Again...there were plenty of bubblegum pop acts in the 1950s and 1960s. I'm not sure all this old fart 'it was better in my day' chat is entirely accurate....


Yeah but it WAS possible for talent to get record deals back then. Now it takes looks & the ability to lip synch, let's face it. The only other way to make it is to get on American Idol.


Not true! Stars will arise through their own ability to stand out in a crowd. That will never change. It's the record companies and producers lack of initiative to go out and find the best & finest. This is where the internet comes in handy to those who will "stand out in a crowd." Where one medium fails, there's another that comes along to pick up the slack. It'll never end.
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Postby ArnelRox » Thu Nov 22, 2007 3:08 pm

mistiejourney wrote:
ArnelRox wrote:
mistiejourney wrote: Zoology is a recent release?? I saw he had long hair so I figured it was a few years old. Had no idea it was so recent - that's just two months!

Like I said, nothing against Arnel. I hope that behind that exterior is a will of steel - and the ability to stand up to Friga and Fro when he needs to. I just have a really bad feeling about this, and it is not Arnel's fault.


Yeah if u look at the more recent dates on YouTube, his hair gets longer & longer. I have a really good feeling about this but I think I'm alone on this board. Oh well!


So we get a different perspective, nothing wrong with that! :D


Thank u so much for saying that. Ur totally awesomely cool. Did u know that? :-)
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Postby Andrew » Thu Nov 22, 2007 3:08 pm

Matthew wrote:My point is that it isn't all doom and gloom...and it isn't enough anymore tio just blame the industry. For every American Idol contestant there's a band out there doing something exciting and fresh - and enjoying a creative freedom that wasn't often tolerated back then.


And selling next to nothing and working day jobs. This industry is in the shitter...take the word of someone who has worked in it.
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Postby Matthew » Thu Nov 22, 2007 3:08 pm

Crazie Scarab wrote:
ArnelRox wrote:
Matthew wrote:Again...there were plenty of bubblegum pop acts in the 1950s and 1960s. I'm not sure all this old fart 'it was better in my day' chat is entirely accurate....


Yeah but it WAS possible for talent to get record deals back then. Now it takes looks & the ability to lip synch, let's face it. The only other way to make it is to get on American Idol.


Not true! Stars will arise through their own ability to stand out in a crowd. That will never change. It's the record companies and producers lack of initiative to go out and find the best & finest. This is where the internet comes in handy to those who will "stand out in a crowd." Where one medium fails, there's another that comes along to pick up the slack. It'll never end.



Exactly...that was the point I was trying to make...but not in a long-winded way...
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Postby AR » Thu Nov 22, 2007 3:10 pm


Andrew wrote:
AR wrote:
If this guy had Steve Perry's EXACT voice would he be the right choice?




AR - last time you started this it cost you a week. ENOUGH.


Oh c'mon I AM behaving myself.


Bro, no one is angry with the Kamala stuff. I am pretty sure anyone I am talking with tonight thinks I am keeping it within reason.
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Postby heardonthestreet » Thu Nov 22, 2007 3:10 pm

Andrew wrote:
heardonthestreet wrote:
Don't be sorry! I can appreciate your feelings on this. I have to say that if JSS is as great as many of you feel he is, he should be in a better position than what he is.


Complete poppycock. If this industry...this assbckwards business was about talent, JSS would be a household name and the likes of Titny Spears would be playing a strip club in Vegas; 50 Cent would be emptying trash cans in east LA and The Spice Girls would be available for hire per hour.

It isn't always about the talent.



I think that it's is an IT factor Andrew and you have to believe somewhat along these lines or you wouldn't be in the business. You simply cannot say that the whole business is wrong just because your favorite is underated.
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Postby mistiejourney » Thu Nov 22, 2007 3:10 pm

ArnelRox wrote:
mistiejourney wrote:
ArnelRox wrote:
mistiejourney wrote: Zoology is a recent release?? I saw he had long hair so I figured it was a few years old. Had no idea it was so recent - that's just two months!

Like I said, nothing against Arnel. I hope that behind that exterior is a will of steel - and the ability to stand up to Friga and Fro when he needs to. I just have a really bad feeling about this, and it is not Arnel's fault.


Yeah if u look at the more recent dates on YouTube, his hair gets longer & longer. I have a really good feeling about this but I think I'm alone on this board. Oh well!


So we get a different perspective, nothing wrong with that! :D


Thank u so much for saying that. Ur totally awesomely cool. Did u know that? :-)


Yes.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Postby ArnelRox » Thu Nov 22, 2007 3:10 pm

Matthew wrote:My point is that it isn't all doom and gloom...and it isn't enough anymore tio just blame the industry. For every American Idol contestant there's a band out there doing something exciting and fresh - and enjoying a creative freedom that wasn't often tolerated back then.


That's true but I wonder if they're making any money & if they'll be able to afford to keep doing it w/out label support.
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Postby Crazie Scarab » Thu Nov 22, 2007 3:11 pm

Matthew wrote:
Crazie Scarab wrote:
ArnelRox wrote:
Matthew wrote:Again...there were plenty of bubblegum pop acts in the 1950s and 1960s. I'm not sure all this old fart 'it was better in my day' chat is entirely accurate....


Yeah but it WAS possible for talent to get record deals back then. Now it takes looks & the ability to lip synch, let's face it. The only other way to make it is to get on American Idol.


Not true! Stars will arise through their own ability to stand out in a crowd. That will never change. It's the record companies and producers lack of initiative to go out and find the best & finest. This is where the internet comes in handy to those who will "stand out in a crowd." Where one medium fails, there's another that comes along to pick up the slack. It'll never end.



Exactly...that was the point I was trying to make...but not in a long-winded way...


I'm glad we can agree on something, Matty. 8)
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Postby Deb » Thu Nov 22, 2007 3:12 pm

Matthew wrote:
Deb wrote: All 3 of my favorite singers are very different vocally (SP, JSS, EM) but all deliver music with soul/passion that is a #1 requirement in my books.


Who's EM, DEb?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPw0xhaXNYE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMIsvL1MAQg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=is3c54o3hcg

:mrgreen:
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Postby Matthew » Thu Nov 22, 2007 3:18 pm

Andrew wrote:
Matthew wrote:My point is that it isn't all doom and gloom...and it isn't enough anymore tio just blame the industry. For every American Idol contestant there's a band out there doing something exciting and fresh - and enjoying a creative freedom that wasn't often tolerated back then.


And selling next to nothing and working day jobs. This industry is in the shitter...take the word of someone who has worked in it.



Sure, the old 'model' for the record industry is coming to an end....but who's working day jobs? Are you talking about the new groups? Didn't they always have to do day jobs in the past? Surely there have always been broke musicians complaining about the industry?
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Postby Andrew » Thu Nov 22, 2007 3:21 pm

heardonthestreet wrote:You simply cannot say that the whole business is wrong just because your favorite is underated.


1) Do you work IN the business, so best to offer an educated opinion?

2) Did I actually STATE those words? Er, NO!
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Postby Andrew » Thu Nov 22, 2007 3:27 pm

ArnelRox wrote:
Matthew wrote:My point is that it isn't all doom and gloom...and it isn't enough anymore tio just blame the industry. For every American Idol contestant there's a band out there doing something exciting and fresh - and enjoying a creative freedom that wasn't often tolerated back then.


That's true but I wonder if they're making any money & if they'll be able to afford to keep doing it w/out label support.


No, and that's the big problem. Historically and even now, labels are the ONLY entity putting money up for tours and advances to get albums actually recorded (if the artist doesn't have his own studio or income source).

Now, the labels of course screw the artists by making those funds recoupable and other such low-brow means, but right now, there is a huge gap in the business that would cater to independant artists looking for financial support/tour support.
I have an idea along these lines but need a rich investor with more money than sense to help me out :)

Touring is the only way to break any money these days, hence bands like Bon Jovi turning into shitty half finished country records so they can hit the road and make a stack of cash.

Small artists need a bank loan - labels used to be that loan - now we need something new as the whole label system is crashing thanks to their own stupidity and lack of forthought (and those crappy deals!)

I could go on all day about this....not everything is bad in the industry, but in times of huge termoil (now), things tend to look bleaker.

The future sue won't be heading down a path that has been taken before and there always remains optimism that manuafactured artistry will die off with the corporations that enthusiastically peddled that crap.

[Excuse typos...I'm rushing...]
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Postby ArnelRox » Thu Nov 22, 2007 3:33 pm

Andrew wrote:Small artists need a bank loan - labels used to be that loan - now we need something new as the whole label system is crashing thanks to their own stupidity and lack of forthought (and those crappy deals!)


Great explanation Andrew. I guess the big question is what can that "something new" be?
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Postby Crazie Scarab » Thu Nov 22, 2007 3:35 pm

Andrew wrote:
ArnelRox wrote:
Matthew wrote:My point is that it isn't all doom and gloom...and it isn't enough anymore tio just blame the industry. For every American Idol contestant there's a band out there doing something exciting and fresh - and enjoying a creative freedom that wasn't often tolerated back then.


That's true but I wonder if they're making any money & if they'll be able to afford to keep doing it w/out label support.


No, and that's the big problem. Historically and even now, labels are the ONLY entity putting money up for tours and advances to get albums actually recorded (if the artist doesn't have his own studio or income source).

Now, the labels of course screw the artists by making those funds recoupable and other such low-brow means, but right now, there is a huge gap in the business that would cater to independant artists looking for financial support/tour support.
I have an idea along these lines but need a rich investor with more money than sense to help me out :)

Touring is the only way to break any money these days, hence bands like Bon Jovi turning into shitty half finished country records so they can hit the road and make a stack of cash.

Small artists need a bank loan - labels used to be that loan - now we need something new as the whole label system is crashing thanks to their own stupidity and lack of forthought (and those crappy deals!)

I could go on all day about this....not everything is bad in the industry, but in times of huge termoil (now), things tend to look bleaker.

The future sue won't be heading down a path that has been taken before and there always remains optimism that manuafactured artistry will die off with the corporations that enthusiastically peddled that crap.

[Excuse typos...I'm rushing...]


Like the stock market, it'll one day crash. There will be a wake up call. That's where it's headed. Looking forward to the crash, actually. I'm buying (music industry) low. 8)
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Postby heardonthestreet » Thu Nov 22, 2007 3:42 pm

Andrew wrote:
heardonthestreet wrote:You simply cannot say that the whole business is wrong just because your favorite is underated.


1) Do you work IN the business, so best to offer an educated opinion?

2) Did I actually STATE those words? Er, NO!



Andrew wrote:.


Complete poppycock. If this industry...this assbckwards business was about talent, JSS would be a household name and the likes of Titny Spears would be playing a strip club in Vegas; 50 Cent would be emptying trash cans in east LA and The Spice Girls would be available for hire per hour.

It isn't always about the talent


1.........Maybe :wink:

2.........Well, words to that effect.
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Postby texafana » Thu Nov 22, 2007 6:00 pm

"Should true Journey fans love every version of Journey?"

Only if your ears enjoy the music they are playing. Why discuss further? ;)
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Postby Indyjoe » Thu Nov 22, 2007 7:15 pm

heardonthestreet wrote:
Andrew wrote:
heardonthestreet wrote:
Don't be sorry! I can appreciate your feelings on this. I have to say that if JSS is as great as many of you feel he is, he should be in a better position than what he is.


Complete poppycock. If this industry...this assbckwards business was about talent, JSS would be a household name and the likes of Titny Spears would be playing a strip club in Vegas; 50 Cent would be emptying trash cans in east LA and The Spice Girls would be available for hire per hour.

It isn't always about the talent.



I think that it's is an IT factor Andrew and you have to believe somewhat along these lines or you wouldn't be in the business. You simply cannot say that the whole business is wrong just because your favorite is underated.


JEFF SCOTT SOTO is in fact GREAT! Extremely talented and he has the "IT" factor!!

Happy Thanksgiving!

~Wendy
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Postby ArnelRox » Thu Nov 22, 2007 9:03 pm

Indyjoe wrote:JEFF SCOTT SOTO is in fact GREAT! Extremely talented and he has the "IT" factor!!


He sure does. For some weird reason, the music biz isnt aware of that YET anyway.

(Ok now I HAVE to get to cooking :-))
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Postby strangegrey » Fri Nov 23, 2007 12:35 am

Matthew wrote:Like Strangegrey did with JSS?


Matthew wrote:Go ahead...and who knows? Matybe you'll have to retract your comments once Arnel has settled into the job...just like Strangregrey did with JSS.


Mathew, stop this. Now.

Don't use me as a basis for trying to make your case. If you can't make a case on your own reasoning and rationale, then you can't (and shouldnt) be making it on my shoulders. Especially when the first instance, I never made the tape you were trying to refer to....and in the second one, I never 'retracted' any fucking comments. I *changed* my mind about Jeff, when I saw him do 2 things. 1) approach and interact with the fans here with dignity and respect despite 2) the fact that he had audible pitch problems in the beginning of his time with Journey. He earned my respect for being a stand up guy and earning my support when he started singing the material better. But the comments I made about his voice not being right for journey when he was first brought on....were NEVER retracted. At the time, given the information I had...I felt his voice was NOT right....


So to that end....please stop bringing me into your arguments. Like I said, if you can't prove these points on your own, you really need to stop doing them on the shoulders of others.

I'm trying to leave you alone....please afford me the same respect.
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Postby Melissa » Fri Nov 23, 2007 12:41 am

StevePerryHair wrote:
Saint John wrote:
StevePerryHair wrote:
Saint John wrote:Ultimately, the time you had is all that counts. However, I'll challenge a musical audience of impartial experts and I'd bet my ball sack that they could point out missed notes, Deen's fill-ins, and other criteria that lead Journey to the decision they made. And the retarded argument that Arnel eats dogs won't change that. :idea:


I hate to see you lose your ball sack :lol: Seriously though, ANY singer singing live can miss a note here or there. I heard him sing "Opened the Door" and it was PERFECT!! Beautiful in fact. He hit notes I never knew he could hit!!! I am not an Arnel basher either. I just feel cheated with Jeff not getting more time.


And I respect the shit out of you for posts like this, darling. You're Melissa...right? :wink: :lol: :evil: :P


:evil: :evil: :P :lol:


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Postby Red13JoePa » Fri Nov 23, 2007 12:46 am

If Neal's the one Kerranging, I'm buying.
"I love almost everybody."---Rocky Balboa 1990
"Let's reform this thing.Let's go out and get some guys who want to work and go do it"--Neal Schon February, 2001
"I looked at Neal, and I just saw a guy who really wants his band back"-JCain 2/01
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Postby strangegrey » Fri Nov 23, 2007 3:09 am

Andrew wrote:No, and that's the big problem. Historically and even now, labels are the ONLY entity putting money up for tours and advances to get albums actually recorded (if the artist doesn't have his own studio or income source).


Hey Andrew, I'm going to respectfully disagree (with some) of what you said. I do understand what you're saying here. Labels *used* to be the bank account that Bands drew from when making (recording) a record and the intial seed money when touring....

These days that model has changed dramatically....There are artists out there that have either put professional studios in their homes or have resorted to small/protools DAW's on their laptops to record albums. There have been some very good (and obviously, very bad) albums recorded with a laptop, protools and some carefully selected/placed microphones. These bands will then turn to world-class mastering houses to turn their home-made product into something fit for public consumption. This has worked well enough recently that enough bands have done it. As a result, the reduced capital offered by record companies these days is either turned down, put entirely into mastering...or utilized to get a tour started.

Because of two things (1. record companies offering far less & 2. bands not taking some or all) the record companies have lost another income stream. The interest they would charge on the recording/touring advances they would give to bands. Instead, bands are seeking other sources of capital from (potentially) cheaper sources.


Interestingly enough, in Country music, this 'loan' model is still used by artists. There's enough money flowing around in Country music in Nashville, that Artists can afford to borrow from the record companies to record an album...they don't need to do it at home...they can do it in a studio with a big name producer like John Shanks/Dann Huff/Frank Rogers/etc...And because Album-sales in Country music havent experienced the awful dropoff that rock music has....an artist doesn't have a problem taking a large loan from say Sony Records at 10%...because he/she knows they can repay the loan out of album sales. When you have to start repaying your album advance with your tour earnings (which are traditionally your proft zones for bands)..it's sorta like paying for financing debt with operating income. Not a good way to make money.


However in Country music, there's also some interesting alternative sources of funding. Brad Paisley's tour in 06 was entirely funded by Gain detergent. Keith Urban's 05 tour had the same backer. Kenny Chesney has been funding his tours with sponsorships from Rum makers to Corona Beer. Garth Brooks doesn't pay one red cent for any show he puts on, because he knows there's a million capital providers just aching to get in on a sure thing.

The fact of the matter is that how aband finances its operations has alot to do with just how much money the band can make....It's like valuing the income streams of a business. The rate of return really depends a whole lot on future income streams. Rock music is in SERIOUS trouble right now. No one's making dick...and the record companies (and some idiot artists) are blaming file sharing....when in fact, they should be looking in the mirror and putting a good product on the field. Gene Simmons was recently quoted (on your site I believe) blaming file sharers....Maybe if he actually stopped re-releasing his repackaged shit...and put out a good new album...it'd be a different story.

Like the music or not, Country music is *thriving* under the old business models. Record companies record most of their gross profits in the country sector.....then they lose it all in rock. It's sad...but true.
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Postby Matthew » Fri Nov 23, 2007 3:54 am

strangegrey wrote:
Matthew wrote:Like Strangegrey did with JSS?


Matthew wrote:Go ahead...and who knows? Matybe you'll have to retract your comments once Arnel has settled into the job...just like Strangregrey did with JSS.


Mathew, stop this. Now.

Don't use me as a basis for trying to make your case. If you can't make a case on your own reasoning and rationale, then you can't (and shouldnt) be making it on my shoulders. Especially when the first instance, I never made the tape you were trying to refer to....and in the second one, I never 'retracted' any fucking comments. I *changed* my mind about Jeff, when I saw him do 2 things. 1) approach and interact with the fans here with dignity and respect despite 2) the fact that he had audible pitch problems in the beginning of his time with Journey. He earned my respect for being a stand up guy and earning my support when he started singing the material better. But the comments I made about his voice not being right for journey when he was first brought on....were NEVER retracted. At the time, given the information I had...I felt his voice was NOT right....


So to that end....please stop bringing me into your arguments. Like I said, if you can't prove these points on your own, you really need to stop doing them on the shoulders of others.

I'm trying to leave you alone....please afford me the same respect.



Okay..it wasn't a tape...it was an audiofile you could download...but other than that I take your point about the difference between retracted and gradually changing one's mind. I actually meant that AR and others might gradually change their minds too. That's all. It wasn't a dig at you...despite our past history.

But yes.... let's stick to what we agreed in the PMs.
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