Is quitting while you are ahead still quitting?

[Voyager]

My wife and I went to see the movie American Gangster tonight. One of the highlights of the movie for me was when a mafia boss told Denzel Washington, "Quitting while you are ahead is better than just quitting." I immediately thought of Steve Perry. Somewhere around 1995 Steve seemed to realize that his voice was not capable of hitting the high notes that had become his signature, so he decided to quit while he was ahead. Millions of fans have tried to encourage him to go back on the road again, but so far he has resisted the pressure to do so. I am sure this has taken a lot of inner strength for Steve to go against the will of his fans. Do you think he made the right decision?

What if Steve would have gone on one more tour and blown out his voice completely? Do you think that would have helped or hurt his legacy?

[Saint John]

My wife and I went to see the movie American Gangster tonight. One of the highlights of the movie for me was when a mafia boss told Denzel Washington, "Quitting while you are ahead is better than just quitting." I immediately thought of Steve Perry. Steve knew his voice was not capable of hitting the high notes that had become his signature, so he decided to quit while he was ahead. Millions of fans have tried to encourage him to go back on the road again, but so far he has resisted the pressure to do so. I am sure this has taken a lot of inner strength for Steve to go against the will of his fans. Do you think he made the right decision?
What if Steve would have gone on one more tour and blown out his voice completely? Do you think that would have helped or hurt his legacy?

No, I don't. His lack of honesty destroyed all of his credibility. We waited circa TBF and Herbie pretty much outlined what an asshole he is. He didn't address it and more importantly he didn't prove him wrong. His indifference toward his fans is silently loud. The man is simply enamored in some sort of "legacy" that will ultimately find him to be a quitter and a recluse. May God bless him as a person, but as an artist he left as a quitter. The ultimate fiend. Circa 1996.

[Rick]

My wife and I went to see the movie American Gangster tonight. One of the highlights of the movie for me was when a mafia boss told Denzel Washington, "Quitting while you are ahead is better than just quitting." I immediately thought of Steve Perry. Steve knew his voice was not capable of hitting the high notes that had become his signature, so he decided to quit while he was ahead. Millions of fans have tried to encourage him to go back on the road again, but so far he has resisted the pressure to do so. I am sure this has taken a lot of inner strength for Steve to go against the will of his fans. Do you think he made the right decision?
What if Steve would have gone on one more tour and blown out his voice completely? Do you think that would have helped or hurt his legacy?

No, I don't. His lack of honesty destroyed all of his credibility. We waited circa TBF and Herbie pretty much outlined what an asshole he is. He didn't address it and more importantly he didn't prove him wrong. His indifference toward his fans is silently loud. The man is simply enamored in some sort of "legacy" that will ultimately find him to be a quitter and a recluse. May God bless him as a person, but as an artist he left as a quitter. The ultimate fiend. Circa 1996.

That heralds back to the sentiment that says, when you quit while you're ahead, you're still a fucking quitter.

[Perrydise]

His indifference toward his fans is silently loud. The man is simply enamored in some sort of "legacy" that will ultimately find him to be a quitter and a recluse. May God bless him as a person, but as an artist he left as a quitter. The ultimate fiend. Circa 1996.

Very well said. SJ you hit the nail on the head. Best statement ever about his fans.

Perhaps it was all burn out. Maybe he was so tired of doing it all that he just wanted time. I worked in a job that I loved for 22 yrs but knew I needed a break. I took it and embarked on another career and I havent looked back. That doesn't make me a quitter. Perhaps there were other avenues he wanted to pursue. Unless you were right there in his head you cant say for sure.

His legacy is in the music. No one can touch that and I sincerely doubt that the "new" Journey will create music that will become legendary. They had that chance with Jeff, but no more.

[TigerBite]

My wife and I went to see the movie American Gangster tonight. One of the highlights of the movie for me was when a mafia boss told Denzel Washington, "Quitting while you are ahead is better than just quitting." I immediately thought of Steve Perry. Somewhere around 1995 Steve seemed to realize that his voice was not capable of hitting the high notes that had become his signature, so he decided to quit while he was ahead. Millions of fans have tried to encourage him to go back on the road again, but so far he has resisted the pressure to do so. I am sure this has taken a lot of inner strength for Steve to go against the will of his fans. Do you think he made the right decision?

What if Steve would have gone on one more tour and blown out his voice completely? Do you think that would have helped or hurt his legacy?

SP did what he thought was best for HIM. To heck with the others. Yeah, I am sure we all would like to hear more from him now and then, like "ARE YOU STILL ALIVE STEVE PERRY?", but really, what is wrong with taking early retirement? It happens in other career fields, so what is the problem with him bowing out early?
I think the fans need to back off. I am sure, no, POSITIVE, he hears their groveling and whining, but the man has made a life decision so let him live it out.
If he wants to peek out from behind the curtain in the near future, I am sure we will all hear about it.

[texafana]

I think he could have and probably still could perform the TBF material live, but anything earlier would be pushing it or would have to be tuned down a step or 2. Usually true performers want to prove themselves and to the their fans that they still can do it. Hard to understand why he won't come out and perform live, maybe he simply is not capable of it anymore. That Dont Stop video with the White Sox was scary.

[strangegrey]

The issue here is who's more 'in the wrong'...

Is thrusting your fans into a dark closet and locking the door the right thing to do?

Or is taking a band without the star singer (in the wake of the above) and drumming it's legacy so far into the shitter that the resulting damage to the legacy is so reprehensible that the fan base has been whittled down to almost nothing?

In my eyes, this is clearly a case of two wrongs dont make a right.


You can bury your head in the sand, as I (and some others here as well) have chosen to do...and simply look upon Journey's past with warm regards...while dismissing the wrongs that Perry, Schon and Cain have done here.

Sadly, all of the above can be slightly corrected with the entire band getting back together, in full....and doing the legacy a final 'good thing'....which is why I maintain the position that the ONLY choice this band has, is to reconcile with Perry and do it right, one last time. Otherwise, it's the end....plain and simple.


If that happens, I think alot of people will be willing to forget all of the reprehensible shit that all three of them pulled....and give this band a proper send off...


Otherwise, it's over...done...toast....fried dog!

[Arkansas]

"quitting while you're ahead" = retiring

Is Tiki Barber a "quitter"?
Was Bobby Jones a "quitter"?
No. They retired from their games and moved on.

Had Perry done just that, there would be many moot points. However, he chose (and still chooses) reclusion.


later~

[TRAGChick]

Honestly, I think he still wants to sing...

...but doesn't want the pressure / demands / etc. that goes along with it.

Record a CD; MAYBE do a video...and he's out.

Just my .02

[STORY_TELLER]

I don't think Perry did anything wrong as far as retiring goes. The man had some serious emotional trauma to deal with. He had his voice failing on him. He lost his mother and his girlfriend back to back. He was both emotionally and creatively burnt out. Not one person who criticizes his actions regarding retirement have walked a day in his shoes. Until you do that, go through what he went through, you really can't relate.

The only MAJOR thing he did wrong in my view was firing two of his band mates in an effort to make a Journey album all about him (Raised on Radio). While I like the music for what it is, I've always felt it would have been better if Perry didn't produce it and the escape/frontiers lineup was involved.

Sure we dig his music, his talent. We miss it. We want more. But that doesn't mean he owes us anything. He owed his bandmates one last tour on TBF, then he could have stepped down again gracefully. But other than that, he's his own person. A human being with his own flaws, issues and lessons to learn, just like the rest of us.

He gave us some great music. Obviously he touched us in a way that we continue to yearn for more. We should be happy with what we got.

[TRAGChick]

I don't think Perry did anything wrong as far as retiring goes. The man had some serious emotional trauma to deal with. He had his voice failing on him. He lost his mother and his girlfriend back to back. He was both emotionally and creatively burnt out. Not one person who criticizes his actions regarding retirement have walked a day in his shoes. Until you do that, go through what he went through, you really can't relate.

The only MAJOR thing he did wrong in my view was firing two of his band mates in an effort to make a Journey album all about him (Raised on Radio). While I like the music for what it is, I've always felt it would have been better if Perry didn't produce it and the escape/frontiers lineup was involved.

He did that because MUSIC was the only thing he COULD control at that point in time.

- and yes, I agree with the whole emotional trauma point. Hits the mark.

[tanga]

I don't think Perry did anything wrong as far as retiring goes. The man had some serious emotional trauma to deal with. He had his voice failing on him. He lost his mother and his girlfriend back to back. He was both emotionally and creatively burnt out. Not one person who criticizes his actions regarding retirement have walked a day in his shoes. Until you do that, go through what he went through, you really can't relate.

The only MAJOR thing he did wrong in my view was firing two of his band mates in an effort to make a Journey album all about him (Raised on Radio). While I like the music for what it is, I've always felt it would have been better if Perry didn't produce it and the escape/frontiers lineup was involved.

Sure we dig his music, his talent. We miss it. We want more. But that doesn't mean he owes us anything. He owed his bandmates one last tour on TBF, then he could have stepped down again gracefully. But other than that, he's his own person. A human being with his own flaws, issues and lessons to learn, just like the rest of us.

He gave us some great music. Obviously he touched us in a way that we continue to yearn for more. We should be happy with what we got.

I agree 100 % with story teller. In terms of quitting while still ahead, I was winning about 12,000 dollars in an Indian Casino last week but got greedy, I gave it all back and lost some more. I believe, Perry made the right decision on this one, he does'nt owe us anything.

[STORY_TELLER]

He did that because MUSIC was the only thing he COULD control at that point in time.

That might have been the reason, but it's not an excuse. Journey wasn't Steve Perry's solo band. There were four other artists in that group, each of who's creative contributions created the larger more sophisticated sound of the whole. If he wanted to control the music in that way, he should have done another solo album with other musicians. He chose to do a Journey album, but he chose to change Journey. Something he himself now says was a mistake.

[Voyager]

Any thoughts on these questions?

What if Steve would have gone on one more tour and blown out his voice completely? Do you think that would have helped or hurt his legacy?

[STORY_TELLER]

Any thoughts on these questions?

What if Steve would have gone on one more tour and blown out his voice completely? Do you think that would have helped or hurt his legacy?

I think so. Here's why:

If you go out on top, you leave fans always thinking of you and your work with fond memories. Whereas if you go out because you've flopped, well, that diminishes your previous achievements. An example of this is The Matrix "trilogy". Because of the horrible sequels, most people hear "The Matrix" and make this face ->

But if you go back and watch the first movie, it's still really great. Most people don't think about the good that came before the failure, they only remember the failure. In that way, Perry did the right thing for himself.

[m]

eh.. no time to edit... shopping-or rather watching someone else shop-is killing my spirit, lol

[ArnelRox]

I've been thinking about this lately. I was looking something up about Michael Bolton. I was never a Bolton fan but liked the stuff he did w/Neal & Jon. W/out liking his "hits", I can appreciate his talents. My friend & I had been discussing his voice, his particular stylings & the strain that puts on ur voice in concert, & the vocal issues he's dealt w/ so I was interested in hearing how he sounds today. I came across his 2007 performances. While I'm sure Bolton's diehard fans enjoy it, he's up there doing Frank Sinatra songs & he's not even doing them well IMHO.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=pJ7TMJnJqNM

I started thinking about Perry. I've always said I'd listen to him sing the phone book but do I really want to go hear Perry sing Frank Sinatra or something similar poorly? Didnt Perry himself say he's not about to do that in one interview? I had to be really honest w/myself. I dont want to hear Perry covering someone else poorly. I'd rather enjoy the legacy of the incredible voice he had. If he writes something that suits his voice now, I'm all ears tho.

[strangegrey]

I've been thinking about this lately. I was looking something up about Michael Bolton. I was never a Bolton fan but liked the stuff he did w/Neal & Jon. W/out liking his "hits", I can appreciate his talents. My friend & I had been discussing his voice, his particular stylings & the strain that puts on ur voice in concert, & the vocal issues he's dealt w/ so I was interested in hearing how he sounds today. I came across his 2007 performances. While I'm sure Bolton's diehard fans enjoy it, he's up there doing Frank Sinatra songs & he's not even doing them well IMHO.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=pJ7TMJnJqNM

I started thinking about Perry. I've always said I'd listen to him sing the phone book but do I really want to go hear Perry sing Frank Sinatra or something similar poorly? Didnt Perry himself say he's not about to do that in one interview? I had to be really honest w/myself. I dont want to hear Perry covering someone else poorly. I'd rather enjoy the legacy of the incredible voice he had. If he writes something that suits his voice now, I'm all ears tho.

Theres a problem with that video, if that it's an audience recording...and there's someone singing along bolton on the tape...and the person is off-pitch from bolton. Listen carefully...it's light enough to miss it. His singing is a different animal when you take out the singing fan.

I would prefer to judge Bolton on a video where his voice isn't getting ruined by an out of pitch singer near the mic in the audience....He sounded find otherwise...

[ArnelRox]

Theres a problem with that video, if that it's an audience recording...and there's someone singing along bolton on the tape...and the person is off-pitch from bolton. Listen carefully...it's light enough to miss it. His singing is a different animal when you take out the singing fan.

I would prefer to judge Bolton on a video where his voice isn't getting ruined by an out of pitch singer near the mic in the audience....He sounded find otherwise...

Sure that's an audience recording, just like all the videos of Arnel u pull apart (sorry Frank, I had to throw that in there, u left urself wide open ).

I just threw in the first example of Bolton I could find quickly. There are a ton of others if u want to go look & listen which I did the other nite. On the more difficult songs, he gives the audience the mic for any challenging parts. If he tries parts of them, he doesnt sound so hot. He's still fine while in chest voice & it sounds great, but as he goes up in pitch, it starts to sound strangled. I felt sorry for him. At least he's trying & he's in great physical shape. His songs are fucking hard to sing. Ouch!

[STORY_TELLER]

Theres a problem with that video, if that it's an audience recording...and there's someone singing along bolton on the tape...and the person is off-pitch from bolton. Listen carefully...it's light enough to miss it. His singing is a different animal when you take out the singing fan.

I would prefer to judge Bolton on a video where his voice isn't getting ruined by an out of pitch singer near the mic in the audience....He sounded find otherwise...

Sure that's an audience recording, just like all the videos of Arnel u pull apart (sorry Frank, I had to throw that in there, u left urself wide open ).

I just threw in the first example of Bolton I could find quickly. There are a ton of others if u want to go look & listen which I did the other nite. On the more difficult songs, he gives the audience the mic for any challenging parts. If he tries parts of them, he doesnt sound so hot. He's still fine while in chest voice & it sounds great, but as he goes up in pitch, it starts to sound strangled. I felt sorry for him. At least he's trying & he's in great physical shape. His songs are fucking hard to sing. Ouch!

It's not just the audience member singing along though. Bolton sounds like he's intentionally trying to channel Sinatra here. He's not making the song his own, singing it the way he sings his other songs. He's trying to approach it the way Sinatra did and it's not working. Still, he's not off key or pitch.

[ArnelRox]

It's not just the audience member singing along though. Bolton sounds like he's intentionally trying to channel Sinatra here. He's not making the song his own, singing it the way he sings his other songs. He's trying to approach it the way Sinatra did and it's not working. Still, he's not off key or pitch.

No I didnt say he was off pitch. But he's just barely on the good side of flat on a few notes tho & hits a couple of the higher notes a bit sharp. At the end of the song, he really clips & changes "York" to prepare for his final sustained note. This is not the way he used to approach singing.

Here's one of Fly Me To The Moon where he's not necessarily channeling Sinatra as much, but there's still some strangulation:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=GyerfolT7Oc

Then on That's Life, he adds back his own style but there's still problems w/ his handling of anything that goes up in pitch at all. He's still very much Bolton, but he's lost something.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=gpvlHPJvod8

(God I sound so critical, if u heard me sing u would be on the floor laughing at me here!!!!)

Anyway, my point was I dont really want to see Perry do Sinatra or Elvis or anything like that. It got a bit convoluted.

[STORY_TELLER]

Anyway, my point was I dont really want to see Perry do Sinatra or Elvis or anything like that. It got a bit convoluted.

Well you're safe there. He mentioned in an interview with Uncle Joe Benson that he's not interested in doing the Rod Stewart great american songbook route. I doubt Perry will be recording anything, but if he covered anyone's material, I'm sure it would be Sam Cooke or Marvin Gaye or whoever else influenced him.

[TigerBite]

What I don't understand is why we all are trying to second guess what might have been?
There is no way in Hades that we can go back and change things. What is done is done.
It really makes you wonder what SP thinks when he hears (because we all know he doesn't read these forums) people saying what he did was wrong and what he should or shouldn't have done.
I mean, do you wipe your arse just because someone tells you to? Nah, I didn't think so. There is something called FREE FREAKIN WILL and if someone wants to pack their bags and leave then that is their choice.

[larryfromnextdoor]

Brooks once said, "get busy living, or get busy dying."

[Rick]

Brooks once said, "get busy living, or get busy dying."

Excellent movie.

[ohsherrie]

Steve Perry owes nothing to any of his fans or his former bandmates. He gave us everything that we paid for and he gave those assholes he worked with a legacy that they're still living on and planning to bleed dry.

[strangegrey]

Sure that's an audience recording, just like all the videos of Arnel u pull apart (sorry Frank, I had to throw that in there, u left urself wide open ).

No, I didn't leave myself open. There's no one else on the arnel youtubes singing off-pitch with arnel....it's only arnel's voice. My point of contention was that the bolton video was an audience recording where someone near the microphone was singing in unison with Bolton and was not singing on pitch....ruining the 'perceived' pitch of Bolton on tape. I'm sure Bolton sounded fine in that hall...

One thing to add....There's also no one else on stage with arnel standing like a statue...that's all arnel....can't blame that on one of the 9 hotel patron's just trying to suck down their drinks in peace and quiet...

and I'm not the idiotic segment of remaining band members in Journey desperately scouring youtube looking for Journey's 4th singer. So I'm not the one to blame for chosing this idiotic medium from which tomorrow's disposable talent is picked...

[strangegrey]

Steve Perry owes nothing to any of his fans or his former bandmates. He gave us everything that we paid for and he gave those assholes he worked with a legacy that they're still living on and planning to bleed dry.

Sherrie, they already bled the stone dry years ago....Nothing left...no blood left from this stone....Now, they're just getting ready to smash it to dust with this next idiotic move.

There;'ll be nothing left but thunderous laughter from those out there desperate to see Journey die in horid fasion.

[ohsherrie]

Steve Perry owes nothing to any of his fans or his former bandmates. He gave us everything that we paid for and he gave those assholes he worked with a legacy that they're still living on and planning to bleed dry.

Sherrie, they already bled the stone dry years ago....Nothing left...no blood left from this stone....Now, they're just getting ready to smash it to dust with this next idiotic move.

There;'ll be nothing left but thunderous laughter from those out there desperate to see Journey die in horid fasion.

True Frank. They're giving those people who called them "corporate rock" and "formula rock" all the justification they need for never recognizing Journey for their contributions to the music world.

[strangegrey]

True Frank. They're giving those people who called them "corporate rock" and "formula rock" all the justification they need for never recognizing Journey for their contributions to the music world.

Yup! That's what hurts about this....people think Arnel is going to right the ship....but all it's done is seal the band's fate with it's legacy. That's more important to me than anything...and it's fucked. Hell, it was fucked for decades, I refused to see it, because I took the same viewpoint that I think some/most of the Arnel-dogs are grasping onto...which is the "Id rather have Arnel if the alternative is no Journey".....I dunno, part of me would rather starve than eat rat meat....but that's just me.