Neal Schon to help launch first robot guitar

[ArnelRox]

Oh, good grief! That clip was from nearly 30 years ago.

Now Dave u know we all live in the past. 30 yrs ago was just yesterday, wasnt it?

[conversationpc]

Oh, good grief! That clip was from nearly 30 years ago.

Now Dave u know we all live in the past. 30 yrs ago was just yesterday, wasnt it?

If I was just 7 years old yesterday, then I guess so.

[strangegrey]

a fair weather fan... what he does with his fingers on the guitar...when i see him **LIVE** I can name maybe three that are better...and one Hendrix has been gone for a while..the others Clapton and Carlos---and maybe Page... Slash is good too are maybe slightly better than Neal..

Oh, good grief! That clip was from nearly 30 years ago.

A question I present to both of you...

Do either of you play guitar? I've been playing for well over 20 years. *some* of that time, professionally. I will, without reservation, say that the above display of playing is completely and utterly unaceptable...and if I had played an entire solo section in the wrong key, without correcting myself within seconds...I would have been laughed out of whatever venue I was performing in. The fact of the matter is that clip was awful...and I would hesitate to label this man the 'greatest guitarist' because of it.

As far as the age of the clip...another thing about being a musician. Your craft is recorded for time-sake. I'mn sorry if it's 30 years ago....that shouldn't matter....there are PLENTY of people here on this very board that refuse to accept the fact that it is no longer 1985...irrespective of the right or wrong of such a mentality, the fact remains that this clip IS relevant when discussing Neal Schon as a player, given the amount of money he has earned (and blew, but that's another thread) as a paid musician.

A few more comments. I had mentioned earlier, my issues with his tone. Neal has been using Digital modelling gear to detrimental effect for the past decade, if not more. I've seen his rig first hand. We can chalk all this up to "well it was 30 years ago"...but once you combine the fact that A) Neal's playing was recorded for all time B) Neal, to this day, plays through shit gear....they are valid points.


I'm not even touching the fact that Neal *completely* disrespected some of the greatest blues artists to ever walk the face of this earth in that clip....he should be shot for that alone. And Steve Perry had the nerve to call Schon "one of the best blues artists in the world" on captured! I would have said 'one of the worst'

[strangegrey]

a fair weather fan... what he does with his fingers on the guitar...when i see him **LIVE** I can name maybe three that are better...and one Hendrix has been gone for a while..the others Clapton and Carlos---and maybe Page... Slash is good too are maybe slightly better than Neal..

Let me also add this. Would a fair weather fan spend an entire summer in high school learning infinity-frontiers, note for note? I sacrificed alot of fun dedicating myself to learning how to play his style. I'm not a fair weather fan....in the slightest.

What you're seeing is my inability to recognize unparalleled greatness in someone that isn't deserving of it. I happened to love his playing as I developed as a guitarist. I don't particularly think his playing has evolved beyond the early 80s....which is fine....but I chose to listen to others now, and feel they are better.

I will, without *any* hesitation, offer that there is a long list of players that are FAR more deserving of 'worlds greatest' than Neal Schon. Your list of three players is dreadfully incomplete without Jeff Beck, whom Neal Schon stole more licks from than you can imagine. 3/4 of the inovations that Neal Schon tries to pass off on his own, he would have never dreamt up if it weren't for Eddie Van Halen. The blues artists he disrespected in that youtube above are far higher on this list. and Stevie Ray Vaughan was a better blues player than anyone ever mentioned in this thread.

I can go on.

Neal's a great player...but he does not deserve to be at the top of any list...sorry.

[ArnelRox]

Isn't saying one guitar player is superior to another a matter of personal taste tho? It's kinda like saying one singer is better than another. Sure one person can be more technically skilled than another but it doesnt mean more people will prefer them. Isnt that something we witness daily here on this board when we talk about Journey's lead singers, tribute band singers, & the many possible candidates discussed here for the position? This board will never fully agree on who is the better singer or who is the better guitarist b/c each person here has their own individual taste.

[strangegrey]

Isn't saying one guitar player is superior to another a matter of personal taste tho?

ABSOLUTELY, AR.

But we're not talking about subjective stuff here. We're talking about playing in tune. Not whether what Schon played at 3:17 in that video was good or bad, based on my opinion.

Another thing, when citing players above like Jeff Back and EVH, it's again, not subjective. Neal's guitar repertoire is a very small fraction of what it currently is, without the material that Neal 'borrowed' from both EVH (admittedly later in his career) and Jeff Beck.

As far as Stevie Ray Vaughan, subjective and greatness should never be used in the same sentence for him. Sorry, the man's ability to 'nail it' no matter what his condition was simply unparalleled.

[NoMoreTails]

3/4 of the inovations that Neal Schon tries to pass off on his own, he would have never dreamt up if it weren't for Eddie Van Halen.

This has me curious, what would these be? What innovations in general has Neal claimed to be his own other than maybe putting a locking tremolo on an LP?

[lights1961]

a fair weather fan... what he does with his fingers on the guitar...when i see him **LIVE** I can name maybe three that are better...and one Hendrix has been gone for a while..the others Clapton and Carlos---and maybe Page... Slash is good too are maybe slightly better than Neal..

Oh, good grief! That clip was from nearly 30 years ago.

A question I present to both of you...

Do either of you play guitar? I've been playing for well over 20 years. *some* of that time, professionally. I will, without reservation, say that the above display of playing is completely and utterly unaceptable...and if I had played an entire solo section in the wrong key, without correcting myself within seconds...I would have been laughed out of whatever venue I was performing in. The fact of the matter is that clip was awful...and I would hesitate to label this man the 'greatest guitarist' because of it.

As far as the age of the clip...another thing about being a musician. Your craft is recorded for time-sake. I'mn sorry if it's 30 years ago....that shouldn't matter....there are PLENTY of people here on this very board that refuse to accept the fact that it is no longer 1985...irrespective of the right or wrong of such a mentality, the fact remains that this clip IS relevant when discussing Neal Schon as a player, given the amount of money he has earned (and blew, but that's another thread) as a paid musician.

A few more comments. I had mentioned earlier, my issues with his tone. Neal has been using Digital modelling gear to detrimental effect for the past decade, if not more. I've seen his rig first hand. We can chalk all this up to "well it was 30 years ago"...but once you combine the fact that A) Neal's playing was recorded for all time B) Neal, to this day, plays through shit gear....they are valid points.


I'm not even touching the fact that Neal *completely* disrespected some of the greatest blues artists to ever walk the face of this earth in that clip....he should be shot for that alone. And Steve Perry had the nerve to call Schon "one of the best blues artists in the world" on captured! I would have said 'one of the worst'

[Rip Rokken]

Oh My God...WHAT THE HELL WAS THAT!?!?!

That's like a William Hung moment for Neal. I fucking Love it. I'm stealing that URL man!

HA! Glad you likey, but I can't take credit, as someone else posted it here about a month ago. I thought it was perfect for your robo-tuning guitar questions... haha!

I do love the way the guy on the left turns to look at him like, "What ARE you DOING?!?"

[Rip Rokken]

This has me curious, what would these be? What innovations in general has Neal claimed to be his own other than maybe putting a locking tremolo on an LP?

Well, if nothing else, surely the FRObotic Auto-Tuning Guitar. A true innovation!

[ArnelRox]

But we're not talking about subjective stuff here. We're talking about playing in tune. Not whether what Schon played at 3:17 in that video was good or bad, based on my opinion.

I think ur missing the point here Frank. Even some of the world's greatest musicians have played (or sang) out of tune on occasion. Should we judge Neal's abilities based on one clip from 30 yrs ago where he was playing w/some of the greatest blues players of our time? Or should we judge him based on what he does best & what he's done for more than 30 yrs? I'm a decent enough singer (or was) but if u heard certain sessions, u would ask what I did w/the money my mother gave me for singing lessons.

I'm certainly not qualified to judge a guitarist as I'm not one & could probably only manage House Of The Rising Sun on guitar (who couldnt?) but I just listened to PlanetUS's Vertigo (thank Niggy). What stood out for me was not the song itself or the vocals, but Neal's guitar playing which was stunning to my ears. Typically I listen to the vocals. If the guitar or any other instrument stands out to me I consider it pretty special.

Is SRV a genius? Sure but his music doesnt appeal to me. I think that's where a lot of people stand. If they dont like the music, they can't appreciate the genius behind it.

[conversationpc]

A question I present to both of you...

Do either of you play guitar?

I'm not the greatest player alive by any stretch of the imagination but, yes, I do play some.

I've been playing for well over 20 years. *some* of that time, professionally. I will, without reservation, say that the above display of playing is completely and utterly unaceptable...and if I had played an entire solo section in the wrong key, without correcting myself within seconds...I would have been laughed out of whatever venue I was performing in. The fact of the matter is that clip was awful...and I would hesitate to label this man the 'greatest guitarist' because of it.

I'm not saying Neal is the greatest because you can't say any particular guitarist is the greatest. It's opinion. However, there are probably clips floating around of just about every guitarist royally screwing up, especially if it is early on in their career.

...the fact remains that this clip IS relevant when discussing Neal Schon as a player, given the amount of money he has earned (and blew, but that's another thread) as a paid musician.

Bullcrap. CC DeVille has earned millions as a paid musician as well and his playing is utter crap.

A few more comments. I had mentioned earlier, my issues with his tone. Neal has been using Digital modelling gear to detrimental effect for the past decade, if not more. I've seen his rig first hand. We can chalk all this up to "well it was 30 years ago"...but once you combine the fact that A) Neal's playing was recorded for all time B) Neal, to this day, plays through shit gear....they are valid points.

Now this is certainly valid. His tone does suck in recent years. It's certainly far removed from the "Infinity" days.

I'm not even touching the fact that Neal *completely* disrespected some of the greatest blues artists to ever walk the face of this earth in that clip....he should be shot for that alone. And Steve Perry had the nerve to call Schon "one of the best blues artists in the world" on captured! I would have said 'one of the worst'

I posted a clip from opening night of the G3 tour back in '96 and Neal guested on the group jam for Hendrix's "Red House". His solo blew the others away on that one, in my opinion, and that's including Eric Johnson, Vai, Satriani, and a very young Kenny Wayne Shepherd. If I can find it again, I'll post it here. Great stuff.

As far as Stevie Ray Vaughan, subjective and greatness should never be used in the same sentence for him. Sorry, the man's ability to 'nail it' no matter what his condition was simply unparalleled.

I've heard tell of some less than stupendous performances from SRV, especially around the time "Live Alive!" was recorded.

I don't particularly think his playing has evolved beyond the early 80s....which is fine.

On the contrary, I think if you listen to the range of the stuff he has done over the last 15 years or so, I think he certainly has evolved. He certainly incorporated more of his jazz stylings into "Trial By Fire", for instance and, to a lesser degree, on "Arrival". Though I don't care much for his last couple of solo albums, he has certainly at least tried something different.

[bluejeangirl76]

I guess Gibson thinks that Journey fans are stupid enough to spend thousands of dollars on a guitar that tunes itself!

I wonder what stupidity would give Gibson that idea!

Maybe this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upQiz1pyO9I&

About the 3:17 mark...

What the crap is Perry doing in the beginning of that video? Air-banjo? Wtf was that? I swear I would love to go to a wedding with that guy. Just once. With a camcorder. You think he does the air-guitar thing in the middle of the Macarena? Or spins in circles while celebration is playing?

Back to the original question of Neal though - I don't know... the afro distracts me.

[ArnelRox]

I swear I would love to go to a wedding with that guy. Just once. With a camcorder. You think he does the air-guitar thing in the middle of the Macarena? Or spins in circles while celebration is playing?

How about the chicken dance?

[strangegrey]

Bullcrap. CC DeVille has earned millions as a paid musician as well and his playing is utter crap.

Not bullcrap, dont change the point of contention. The issue is whether or not an artist can or should be judged on his entire body of work. CC Devile most certainly has earned his reputation as a player on both what he has done in the past and currently.

Your not-so-well-thought-out point is that we need to dismiss Schon's abysmal playing because it was recorded 30 years ago. I disagree on the point that he was a famous musician at that point....he was earning a rather luscious living (or was certainly not eating spam anymore)...and playing with legendary guest artists....

His playing, or shall we say, the accountability we hold him to, with respect to his playing is no less or more valid than his playing now.

Sorry...you're just wrong here.

[conversationpc]

Not bullcrap, dont change the point of contention.

Didn't change anything.

Your not-so-well-thought-out point is that we need to dismiss Schon's abysmal playing because it was recorded 30 years ago. I disagree on the point that he was a famous musician at that point....he was earning a rather luscious living (or was certainly not eating spam anymore)...and playing with legendary guest artists....

Not-so-well-thought out? Pretty funny considering the source but anyway. The real question is does that clip personify his playing or is it out of character? If you're honest, you have to admit that it's completely out of character. I'm sure I can sort through my tons of Journey bootlegs and find other examples of him being out tune or hitting some bad notes here and there but the fact is it's few and far between when you consider the vast majority of his work.

Sorry...you're just wrong here.

Not even close and I'm sure most everyone else here, including other players would agree. Considering your over-the-top vitriol against Schon recently, your comments seem to come more from a jaded perspective than they do a realistic one.

[Gibby]

Frank,

Here's what I gather from the video. I've been playing professionally and constantly gigging for over 15 years now - played guitar for 30 years. What drives me nuts is when someone comes to a gig wasted. Makes the whole band look bad. Sometimes guys will try and hide it but you can hear it in their playing. Sober Neal Schon (who is an absolutely amazing guitar player) wouldn't have played on the wrong fret and would have fixed it quickly once he heard his fuck up. God knows I've started a solo on the wrong fret before but I have quickly found my place. Neal looks totally zoned out, wasted, stoned, etc... the poor bastard trying to play the solo with him finally just quits and watches Neal. Neal eventually catches himself but has that 'deer in the headlights' look I have seen so many times on wasted musicians that get completely lost.

I'm sure you've seen it too. I think we have to cut him a little slack for being one of the many under the influence guitar players that have graced the stage in rock n roll history. No question in my mind that he is one of the very best axe handlers in the history of rock even though he may be a prick to many and could be leading this band down a dangerous destructive road.

[Rip Rokken]

You think he was really wasted? Wonder if the same thing happened to Eddie Van Halen in that JUMP video I posted a few weeks ago. Apparently he went thru 2 whole songs with his guitar sounding like that, and there were a flurry of excuses from the VH camp as to what happened. I heard very recently he went back to rehab, and they had to postpone some dates because of it. (no confirmation of that)

[conversationpc]

You think he was really wasted? Wonder if the same thing happened to Eddie Van Halen in that JUMP video I posted a few weeks ago. Apparently he went thru 2 whole songs with his guitar sounding like that, and there were a flurry of excuses from the VH camp as to what happened. I heard very recently he went back to rehab, and they had to postpone some dates because of it. (no confirmation of that)

I thought it was pretty well established that he cracked the headstock of that guitar on the floor or something like that and knocked it out of tune. Regardless, he should've manned up and stopped playing until he could get a different guitar.

[Rip Rokken]

I thought it was pretty well established that he cracked the headstock of that guitar on the floor or something like that and knocked it out of tune. Regardless, he should've manned up and stopped playing until he could get a different guitar.

Hence my thought that he might have been trashed.

[strangegrey]

Didn't change anything.

Yeah, whatever...go back and read what you wrote about 100 more times and get back to me when you figure out what you changed.

[strangegrey]

I'm sure you've seen it too. I think we have to cut him a little slack for being one of the many under the influence guitar players that have graced the stage in rock n roll history. No question in my mind that he is one of the very best axe handlers in the history of rock even though he may be a prick to many and could be leading this band down a dangerous destructive road.

Dude, I've been cutting Neal slack for a *long* time.

With respect to this video, one of two things happened. He was either so fucking trashed that he couldn't see or hear straight...or he had a monitor issue and couldn't hear his amp.....the second is marginally more excusable. But given his 'level' (and this is the point I was making before, cpc) he simply is not exempt from harsh criticism...no matter what year it is.

My opinion on Schon's playing is what it is. I dont care what other people think....the fact of the matter is that Neal is not the worlds greatest. The worlds greatest wouldn't have made that mistake piss drunk. Let's be real here...

[Gibby]

I don't think monitor level works here cuz that other guy just quits playing while Neal steps all over him. I just think he was completely fucked up. He's supposed to be a pro no matter when the video was shot or his condition so for that, he deserves criticism.

[conversationpc]

Didn't change anything.

Yeah, whatever...go back and read what you wrote about 100 more times and get back to me when you figure out what you changed.

You pull this crap whenever anyone disagrees with you. "Yeah, um, you changed the argument." Now I suppose you're going to pull all those homoerotic comments out of the box that you're so fond of.

[annie89509]

I'm no NS zealot. But he was only 24 then, playing with some of the greatest blues players in the world more than twice his age. Don't you think he just might have been out of his element? I mean, jamming with Albert King inches from you, I could imagine he could have been a wee bit intimidated. Doesn't mean he was stoned.

[rdekker]

Whoopie-fuckin'-do. I wouldn't waste my gas going to see botox boy!

We should get a big group to march around that store with signs supporting JSS or with some of the photoshopped images that have been floating around here, LOL! That would be so freaking great!!

Don't think Jeff would want that Barb.

Okay, well leave him out of it then. It would be cool to humiliate Neal in such a small place where he might actually have to respond. (Can you tell I hate him?)

You guys can't humiliate Neal in a million years, he's too far above your obscure level. Give it a rest and get a life !