Republican Debate

[conversationpc]

I read something interesting the other day about a study done to try and determine if people's convictions and beliefs could really be "dyed in the wool". They think it may be possible that after so many generations within a family that is staunchly entrenched in a certain belief or conviction it may actually become a genetically influenced trait.

I think they must be right. That is the only thing that can explain to me how any otherwise intelligent human beings could actually believe anything about the Clinton administration could possibly compare to the destructive corruption of the current administration.

That study sounds like a load of baloney. If true, how would they explain why so many people are so liberal when they are young and end up being conservative when they are older? I know about tons of people who's parents were conservative but they turned out liberal and vice versa. I think environment and experience is a much bigger factor.

[SteveForever]

I read something interesting the other day about a study done to try and determine if people's convictions and beliefs could really be "dyed in the wool". They think it may be possible that after so many generations within a family that is staunchly entrenched in a certain belief or conviction it may actually become a genetically influenced trait.

I think they must be right. That is the only thing that can explain to me how any otherwise intelligent human beings could actually believe anything about the Clinton administration could possibly compare to the destructive corruption of the current administration.

That study sounds like a load of baloney. If true, how would they explain why so many people are so liberal when they are young and end up being conservative when they are older? I know about tons of people who's parents were conservative but they turned out liberal and vice versa.

Unfortunately at this point Sherrie the lines of the parties are so sketchy how can anyone know which one they really identify with?

You have to pick which one you believe in more, but that doesn't mean you agree or support every thing that side does. The dangerous thing is lumping people into catergories and hating them for it. How are we better off doing that? We need both parties to keep the country balanced. Just because I'm a Republican doesn't mean I support this President, the endless spending, and a number of other things any more than you being a Democrat means you want gay sex to be allowed in the main stream media (there are people in the Art world who get govt. funding who have this agenda) or that you think people should be able to marry children or animals, etc. Many people call themselves "democrats" just because they want the more liberal side to represent them and many people call them selves "republican" that might be right wing fundamentalists. We need a new party!

Its not all or nothing, but for the most part I believe in one particular party. I vote for whomever I think will do the best job, I'll admit it I voted for Perot.
Where is that guy now? I'd even vote Libertarian.
Being from a long line of Dems. I chose for myself which is awesome we can do that and if you want to continue to say we are all shallow and screwed up then go ahead but you can't label each every person in sincerity.

[Behshad]

[conversationpc]

[Rip Rokken]

f true, how would they explain why so many people are so liberal when they are young and end up being conservative when they are older?

Awesome point! I think a few of the key factors in that are education and personal experience. The less people know about history, and the less they understand the truths of human behavior, the more likely they will be to think idealistically rather than realistically. For example, you can have the notion that hardcore criminals just need rehabilitation to cure their criminal tendencies, but then take a look at what's been accomplished after they've had all the rehab in the world, and the truth is that a lot of hardcore criminals are not capable of being "cured" -- they suffer from distinct personality disorders, or sociopathy. Same with insane dictators -- unfortunately, force or the threat of force is the only way to deal with several of them. Many dictators are people with Paranoid Personality Disorder who have gone too far unchecked, and you just can't reason with these folks like rational people. So what sounds good as an ideal doesn't work in real world situations. I don't even want to use the labels "liberal" and "conservative" here -- I'm just talking about idealism vs. realism, and everyone can take from that what they will. The history part is simple -- just ask yourself, "Has this ever worked before?" And if not, then why the heck try it again? Insanity is trying the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

Another example... Americans really suffer from "Not In My Backyard" syndrome, which means, they are slow to get riled up until some problem hits close to home. Take illegal immigration for example. Sounds great that we should just allow anyone and everyone to waltz in here, until you look around and realize how much your surroundings have changed to accommodate people that are not here legally, and especially when your tax dollars go to social programs, education or drivers licenses and them.

Yeah, "Not In My Backyard".... Another quick way to turn someone from an idealist into a realist is to have their home broken into, their property stolen, or be violated in some other heinous way. All of a sudden, people become "hanging judges" and want to start stringing people up.

[Rip Rokken]

Unfortunately at this point Sherrie the lines of the parties are so sketchy how can anyone know which one they really identify with?

You have to pick which one you believe in more, but that doesn't mean you agree or support every thing that side does. The dangerous thing is lumping people into catergories and hating them for it.

You are absolutely right. I can't side with any party at all -- I just try to side with the folks that represent my point of view, and unfortunately now, there are none in Washington DC. But tying oneself to a political party is just like siding with a sports team, even when they suck. When a party moves away from representing me, then they've moved away from me, plain and simple.

[ohsherrie]

I read something interesting the other day about a study done to try and determine if people's convictions and beliefs could really be "dyed in the wool". They think it may be possible that after so many generations within a family that is staunchly entrenched in a certain belief or conviction it may actually become a genetically influenced trait.

I think they must be right. That is the only thing that can explain to me how any otherwise intelligent human beings could actually believe anything about the Clinton administration could possibly compare to the destructive corruption of the current administration.

That study sounds like a load of baloney. If true, how would they explain why so many people are so liberal when they are young and end up being conservative when they are older? I know about tons of people who's parents were conservative but they turned out liberal and vice versa. I think environment and experience is a much bigger factor.

They didn't suggest and neither did I that ALL people are hard-wired from birth, they suggested that there was evidence that through several generations certain beliefs could actually become encoded into genetic makeup in the form of a personality trait.

If you think about it, it's not really that farfetched. The human race has been changing genetically through evolution............ oops, that's right, you don't believe in evolution. Nevermind then.

[conversationpc]

oops, that's right, you don't believe in evolution. Nevermind then.

I've never said that I don't believe in evolution. I said that I don't accept it completely, like some do.

I think they must be right. That is the only thing that can explain to me how any otherwise intelligent human beings could actually believe anything about the Clinton administration could possibly compare to the destructive corruption of the current administration.

The same kind of things were being said about Clinton's administration while he was still in office... http://www.ashbrook.org/publicat/onprin/v4n6/mayer.html

[Wally_Hatchet]

I used to be a registered Democrat. Then I grew up.

Nothing better than an over-confident liberal. Need I remind you, you guys thought you had the last two presidential elections locked up, too.

[ohsherrie]

Unfortunately at this point Sherrie the lines of the parties are so sketchy how can anyone know which one they really identify with?

You have to pick which one you believe in more, but that doesn't mean you agree or support every thing that side does. The dangerous thing is lumping people into catergories and hating them for it. How are we better off doing that? We need both parties to keep the country balanced. Just because I'm a Republican doesn't mean I support this President, the endless spending, and a number of other things any more than you being a Democrat means you want gay sex to be allowed in the main stream media (there are people in the Art world who get govt. funding who have this agenda) or that you think people should be able to marry children or animals, etc. Many people call themselves "democrats" just because they want the more liberal side to represent them and many people call them selves "republican" that might be right wing fundamentalists. We need a new party!

Its not all or nothing, but for the most part I believe in one particular party. I vote for whomever I think will do the best job, I'll admit it I voted for Perot.
Where is that guy now? I'd even vote Libertarian.
Being from a long line of Dems. I chose for myself which is awesome we can do that and if you want to continue to say we are all shallow and screwed up then go ahead but you can't label each every person in sincerity.

I was registered as an independent until the Bush regime. In fact, I'd have probably voted for McCain rather than Gore if he's won the nomination, but he didn't have any more of a chance at than than Gore did of getting in the White House because it was all bought and paid for long before. McCain even said so before he decided to become a Bush lap dog.

I don't like the extremes of either party, but I see the liberal extremes as being much less dangerous to freedom and democracy than the conservative ones.

The people that I thought of when I was reading about this study are the ones who look for the party or candidate that they think best represents the one particular belief or conviction that is so important to them that they don't really know or care what else that party or candidate represents or proposes.

Here's an example that came to mind:

- In this area hunting is seen as a civil right as well as a rite of passage. Deer season was almost recognized as a state holiday by some employers(when we still had employers). This is something that has been part of a lot of families for generations. The boys seem to actually be born wanting to go into the woods with a gun. Most of those families also vote Republican because all they hear is 'those liberals will take our guns away."

[Rip Rokken]

I don't like the extremes of either party, but I see the liberal extremes as being much less dangerous to freedom and democracy than the conservative ones.

I can see you saying that about one party or the other, but if you talk about the principals, I have to disagree completely. Conservative principals in no way threaten either freedom or democracy, as they empower people and reduce the scope of government. The problem is that there are no true conservatives in leadership positions right now.

[ohsherrie]

oops, that's right, you don't believe in evolution. Nevermind then.

I've never said that I don't believe in evolution. I said that I don't accept it completely, like some do.

I think they must be right. That is the only thing that can explain to me how any otherwise intelligent human beings could actually believe anything about the Clinton administration could possibly compare to the destructive corruption of the current administration.

The same kind of things were being said about Clinton's administration while he was still in office... http://www.ashbrook.org/publicat/onprin/v4n6/mayer.html

And the fact that you think that's actually a comparison is further proof that it's more ingrained personal belief and conviction than fact and logic that leads people to support one candidate over another. Nothing Clinton, or any other president including Nixon has ever done while in office is as completely, egregiously corrupt and destructive to our very way of life as the what Bush's regime has done. But people still don't see it, either because something about him or the republican party rings true to some belief or conviction that they hold true, or some belief or conviction of theirs tells them that illicit sex is more egregious than an unjust war that has killed thousands and put the world at risk by destabilizing the middle east.

[ohsherrie]

I don't like the extremes of either party, but I see the liberal extremes as being much less dangerous to freedom and democracy than the conservative ones.

I can see you saying that about one party or the other, but if you talk about the principals, I have to disagree completely. Conservative principals in no way threaten either freedom or democracy, as they empower people and reduce the scope of government. The problem is that there are no true conservatives in leadership positions right now.

It's the conservatives that want to legislate their moral and religious beliefs into law and thereby impose them on everyone. That doesn't sound like freedom to me.

[conversationpc]

It's the conservatives that want to legislate their moral and religious beliefs into law and thereby impose them on everyone. That doesn't sound like freedom to me.

Please don't lie. Both sides do this. Besides that, all law is a representation of SOMEONE'S morality, good or bad.

And the fact that you think that's actually a comparison is further proof that it's more ingrained personal belief and conviction than fact and logic that leads people to support one candidate over another. Nothing Clinton, or any other president including Nixon has ever done while in office is as completely, egregiously corrupt and destructive to our very way of life as the what Bush's regime has done. But people still don't see it, either because something about him or the republican party rings true to some belief or conviction that they hold true, or some belief or conviction of theirs tells them that illicit sex is more egregious than an unjust war that has killed thousands and put the world at risk by destabilizing the middle east.

You conspiracy kooks are just as bad, if not worse, than the nuts who claimed the Clinton administration was having people killed, ala Vince Foster, Commerce Secretary Ron Brown, etc., etc. Same kind of nuts, different decade and administration.

[Rip Rokken]

It's the conservatives that want to legislate their moral and religious beliefs into law and thereby impose them on everyone. That doesn't sound like freedom to me.

Actually, Conversationpc is right in that both parties do this, but overall, you are again confusing the people with the principals. Conservative principals have nothing to do with advancing any religious agenda, though Judeo-Christian morality did heavily shape the foundation of our country. Don't confuse the "Religious Right" with pure conservative principals -- they are a mixture of those and other things. I'm strictly talking about liberalism vs. conservatism, not Dems vs. Repubs, etc.

[Rockindeano]

I used to be a registered Democrat. Then I grew up.

Nothing better than an over-confident liberal. Need I remind you, you guys thought you had the last two presidential elections locked up, too.

Yeah, until they were outright stolen.

[Rockindeano]

Folks, it's all about the Supreme Court.

You want some right wing wackos shitting on your rights, by all means vote GOP. They seem to think that conservatism is the only way to govern, suppressing rights and such, yet, they claim to be the hands off party

For all that is holy, I pray that Clinton/Ricjardson get in, and that Thomas, Scalia and Kennedy resign from the Court. You watch these fuckoffs try to overturn Roe and all Hell will break loose. We will have a fuckin mutiny in this country.

[conversationpc]

I used to be a registered Democrat. Then I grew up.

Nothing better than an over-confident liberal. Need I remind you, you guys thought you had the last two presidential elections locked up, too.

Yeah, until they were outright stolen.

Repeating it over and over again isn't going to make it true. Give up the mantra.

[Rockindeano]

I used to be a registered Democrat. Then I grew up.

Nothing better than an over-confident liberal. Need I remind you, you guys thought you had the last two presidential elections locked up, too.

Yeah, until they were outright stolen.

Repeating it over and over again isn't going to make it true. Give up the mantra.

Yeah, ok. Why the Hell did the US Supreme Court STOP the recounts when it was looking more and more like a Gore win? I'll tell you why. Because you fuckers had a 5-4 majority. You KNEW Gore would get his votes to win, hence the Supreme Court intrusion.

[conversationpc]

They seem to think that conservatism is the only way to govern, suppressing rights and such, yet, they claim to be the hands off party

And yet dems will forcibly steal your income via higher taxes, use eminent domain to take property away from private citizens, squelch talk radio simply because people don't want to listen to liberals, etc. Yeah, the dems are the party of the people.

[Rockindeano]

I'm not giving up shit, Dave. I won't rest until I get my country back from this corrupt regime. I possess pure hatred for the Republican party..PURE UNADULTERED HATRED, and yes, it drives me...It FUCKING drives me daily. I am up at a God early time, checking polls, checking all the mudslinging. That motherfucker Karl Rove...I wish aids on that cocksucker.

[conversationpc]

That motherfucker Karl Rove...I wish aids on that cocksucker.

You're being an asshole.

[Rip Rokken]

That ***** Karl Rove...I wish aids on that cocksucker.

So you believe in the death penalty? Not very liberal.

[conversationpc]

That ***** Karl Rove...I wish aids on that cocksucker.

So you believe in the death penalty? Not very liberal.

[bluejeangirl76]

Yeah, ok. Why the Hell did the US Supreme Court STOP the recounts when it was looking more and more like a Gore win? I'll tell you why. Because you fuckers had a 5-4 majority. You KNEW Gore would get his votes to win, hence the Supreme Court intrusion.

Yeah. That was pretty fucking convenient timing, wasn't it? I never thought I could be more surprised and appalled by this country as a whole than I was that day, but four years later after we all got to SEE what a shitty choice he was, they went and elected his ass AGAIN. And people wonder "how can there be people who don't vote?" Well, I'd imagine it's because so many people see that their votes just don't matter, because when the vote counting starts to go one way, our own government can just say "Ok, enough of that counting shit... we want this guy to win..."

[conversationpc]

Yeah. That was pretty fucking convenient timing, wasn't it? I never thought I could be more surprised and appalled by this country as a whole than I was that day...

...because when the vote counting starts to go one way, our own government can just say "Ok, enough of that counting shit... we want this guy to win..."

Even liberal CNN isn't dumb enough to believe that. http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/florid ... /main.html

[Rockindeano]

That ***** Karl Rove...I wish aids on that cocksucker.

So you believe in the death penalty? Not very liberal.

First off, I don't wish AIDS on anyone. I am sorry, and take that one back.

Yes, I DO believe in the death penalty. I am NOT liberal. Thanks for finally understanding that Davey.

[conversationpc]

First off, I don't wish AIDS on anyone. I am sorry, and take that one back.

As much as I disagree with you sometimes, you are a stand-up guy.

Yes, I DO believe in the death penalty. I am NOT liberal. Thanks for finally understanding that Davey.

Um...RipRokken was the one who said that, not me.

[Rip Rokken]

Um...RipRokken was the one who said that, not me.

But you laughed, so that makes you a co-conspirator.

[Rockindeano]

Dude, that avatar gives me nightmares.