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Postby scarygirl » Fri Nov 30, 2007 12:57 pm

StevePerryHair wrote:
Saint John wrote:
StevePerryHair wrote:
Saint John wrote:
Tyler wrote:
Saint John wrote:Plus she's an ugly, dyke ****. You guys forgot that one. :lol:


Atleast she looks better after her facelift. She'll entertain every rich Hollywood friend she knows and the White House will be a revolving door, just like before. 1/2 of them don't even have a high school diploma. She cries for the poor, but parties with the rich.
Bill can't wait, party time boys!!!



Her cheekbones make her look like fuckin' Pinnochio. They need to chisel them down to the size of golf balls rather than their present shot put size.


Okay, I am not a Hillary fan, but I have to step in. Would we be discussing these things with any of the male candidates?? Well, maybe the women would be, who knows.




Listen here, Missy. This isn't the fucking "View." This is MR...anything goes. Make fun of McCain....he's a goofy looking fucker. Giuliani too. Dude has the worst haircut ever. Looks like someone forgot to replace their divot and it wound up on his dome.


:lol: :lol:


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Postby ohsherrie » Fri Nov 30, 2007 1:24 pm

Fact Finder wrote:http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=F715A709-2614-4EA5-967C-F6151F94A364

If anybody has the time. Look..don't leap.


I looked. That reads like some of the bullshit that's in those extreme militia type magazines that sort of remind you of those "I was abducted and impregnated by aliens" type magazines.
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Postby Andrew » Fri Nov 30, 2007 1:38 pm

Fact Finder wrote:Go figure.


I can do without the graphics thank you. Take it elsewhere.
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Postby fredinator » Fri Nov 30, 2007 4:52 pm

I agree with the guy who said we are facing huge economic troubles, and Sorry Dave, RF and you others, I lay the blame for that directly at the feet of Bush, his administration and the Republican Congress. By the way, so what if we get a tax hike? I mean really? My federal tax situation is the same as it ever was; I haven't gotten rich by any tax cuts. Seems to me we're paying $3.00/gallon in gas, etc. Am I better off than I was 8 years ago, NO! We are going to HAVE to raise taxes--our infrastructure is getting old; the FDA and some other federal agencies have dropped the ball over the last 8 years I think due to being underfunded. You all are just a bunch of parrots--don't raise taxes, squawk. Silly.

P.S. I have noticed a small ripple of change in the Christian right, by the way... They are taking up the environment; I've seen a couple of articles where there might be more acceptance of gay people, too. We need this, I think.
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Postby RedWingFan » Fri Nov 30, 2007 5:26 pm

fredinator wrote:I agree with the guy who said we are facing huge economic troubles, and Sorry Dave, RF and you others, I lay the blame for that directly at the feet of Bush, his administration and the Republican Congress.

Facing huge economic troubles? Do you realize how long the "experts" have been forecasting a recession? Oh for about 7 years!!!! If you're goofy enough to believe it, go right ahead, that's your right. :lol:
fredinator wrote:By the way, so what if we get a tax hike? I mean really? My federal tax situation is the same as it ever was; I haven't gotten rich by any tax cuts.

Yeah, you're right it's just a little piece of your freedom their taking by raising your taxes. I mean the more they take the less you have to decide to make decisions for yourself. Let them worry about what Dr. you go see or what you can and can't drive, what you can and can't eat or drink. Life would be so much simpler. Let's just give it to them. :roll:
fredinator wrote:Seems to me we're paying $3.00/gallon in gas, etc. Am I better off than I was 8 years ago, NO!

Again, yes, Let's just let them take it all and dispurse an allowance to us. Let them decide how much they need to keep and how much we need to survive. You are brilliant fredinator!
fredinator wrote:We are going to HAVE to raise taxes--our infrastructure is getting old; the FDA and some other federal agencies have dropped the ball over the last 8 years I think due to being underfunded.

You have completely hit the nail on the head. The gov't is underfunded. The DMV, the post office, gov't schools, gov't housing (aka the projects) These are all the backbone of this country. The private sector can't compete with that. The US gov't is probably the most efficient operations in the world. They are masters at squeezing every last penny out of the dollar. They don't and have never squandered a dime. Again, pure brilliance.
fredinator wrote:You all are just a bunch of parrots--don't raise taxes, squawk. Silly.

Yeah, silly. This is probably the most ignorant post I've ever read on this forum. I don't think I've ever encountered you on the board before but you've produced the most ridiculously absurd post I've ever read. And that's saying something. The gov't spends how many trillions of dollars and their underfunded! :roll:
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Postby Andrew » Fri Nov 30, 2007 5:58 pm

Fact Finder wrote:Saddam gassed those people Andrew. HE GASSED THEM!


I'm not arguing that point with you dude....take it elsewhere though. There is a politics forum if you really have to have your say in such a graphic manner.
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Postby fredinator » Fri Nov 30, 2007 7:04 pm

RF, you are one of those typical Republicans that I don't give the time of day. It's like arguing about religion, you are right, and everybody is a ____ (fill in the blank). Adios.
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Postby fredinator » Fri Nov 30, 2007 7:05 pm

One more thing, I posted the above with a caveat to myself that I hope I am wrong and would love somebody to talk me out of it!! You ain't it!
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Postby slucero » Fri Nov 30, 2007 7:27 pm

fredinator wrote:I agree with the guy who said we are facing huge economic troubles, and Sorry Dave, RF and you others, I lay the blame for that directly at the feet of Bush, his administration and the Republican Congress. By the way, so what if we get a tax hike? I mean really? My federal tax situation is the same as it ever was; I haven't gotten rich by any tax cuts. Seems to me we're paying $3.00/gallon in gas, etc. Am I better off than I was 8 years ago, NO! We are going to HAVE to raise taxes--our infrastructure is getting old; the FDA and some other federal agencies have dropped the ball over the last 8 years I think due to being underfunded. You all are just a bunch of parrots--don't raise taxes, squawk. Silly.

P.S. I have noticed a small ripple of change in the Christian right, by the way... They are taking up the environment; I've seen a couple of articles where there might be more acceptance of gay people, too. We need this, I think.



Ferd... the economy has very little to do with who's in office.... in fact the Fed controls the economy more than the White House....

simple facts:

The dollar is plunging... which is great for every country - except the USA, who's trade imbalance with China only makes it worse... and China richer...

The subprime mortgage crisis will fully "roost" right before the election next year, when the majority of these loans turn over, and people are forced into forclosure. And BTW, Alan Greenspan was prime proponent of these loans... its also very ironic the the Fed is dropping rates now at every meeting... at some point the Fed will not be able to drop rates any further in to prop up the market... and then the real fall will begin.... prior to the last two days 500 point uptick... the market had lost 1300 points or 10% in on month.... the volatility is directly related to investor skepticism... and we haven't even gone through year end earnings reporting....

Simply put, the US no longer controls its economic "destiny", because foreign countries now own our debt, and we no longer have the manufacturing base to compete with other manufacturers (who will not level the playing field - think China, Japan) in support of our own currency.

When China and the Middle East begin to shift their foreign currency reserves out of the US dollar and into other currencies... the dollar will lose additional value... when the dollar falls far enough OPEC will most likely revalue oil in EURO... meaning they will only take payment in EURO... when this happens...

RECESSION


and btw... we are actually paying $4 to $5 per gallon for gas now... you just don't realize it.... the reason US gas is cheaper than other countries is because we pay taxes that the Federal Government uses to SUBSIDIZE the oil industry.... the increase is just the refineries maintaining their profit margins... which makes the reasons for the slow move to alternative energy even more obvious...
Last edited by slucero on Fri Nov 30, 2007 7:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby fredinator » Fri Nov 30, 2007 7:35 pm

Hi Slucero, It's "fred" not "ferd." :D Actually, it's Nancy; I hate my handle, my son picked it out for me when I first posted here... Okay, now I'm really sad. Can't this be averted? I kind of knew the Fed ran the economy but I was wanting to blame the Republicans really bad!! :) . What can we as a country do to head this off?
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Postby slucero » Fri Nov 30, 2007 7:47 pm

oops!! Sorry Fred.... er Nancy....

3 things:

LOBBYING
Elected official are elected by individuals, not corporations… yet corporate lobbing exerts unfair influence on “public servants”… resulting in state and federal government that is more beholden to corporate masters than the citizens who elected them. Ultimate result is bloated government, excessive spending, misguided state, domestic and foreign policy.

SOLUTION
Legislation must be passed, at the state and federal level that:
  • Bans corporate lobbying altogether OR
  • Prohibits elected officials and their personal staff, legislators, appointed officials and department directors from becoming licensed lobbyists within 24 months after departure from their government positions.
  • Prohibits corporate contributions to campaigns for public office. Since the office is elected by the individual vote, only individual contributions should be allowed.
  • Mandate publicly funded elections.


ENERGY
The United States has greatly benefited from the historically stable cost of oil. After the end of WWII, the U.S. was the clear superpower, and the war greatly accelerated manufacturing and consumption, all of which relied on oil as a base energy unit. As consumption increased, so did the demand for energy. To encourage continued expansion, the federal government began to subsidize the energy industry, keeping the cost of energy stable and artificially low. This has also kept the cost of goods relatively low to the average American.

Fast forward to today… there isn’t enough oil to satisfy the rising world demand…. And US subsidies can no longer suppress rising costs.

The “Achilles-heel” of the US economy has always been energy. Cheap energy was the driver of our rapid economic growth post WWII. Until now, the cost of energy has been low enough to not adversely impact the cost of manufacturing, transportation, etc., which ultimately results in price increases to the average consumer.

A new energy paradigm must be rapidly executed if the U.S. is to maintain economic stability.

SOLUTION:
We must change the “base energy unit” of the US economy from oil to electricity. This will require significant investment in the alternative energy R&D field. Our cities, factories and automobiles must become electrically based. Frankly, we must quickly adopt the same sense of urgency advocated by President John F. Kennedy when he challenged this great nation to land on the moon in less than 10 years.

We must also become a global net energy “producer”… only then will we be able to control our destiny as a society. The benefits are obvious:
  • No longer will we have to temper our foreign policy - period.
  • As a net energy producer, electricity effectively becomes a “currency”, stabilizing our dollar abroad and domestically.
  • We can trade electricity to developing nations in exchange for infrastructure development. This will naturally lead to additional trade opportunities. This also stabilizes regions by raising the living standard, and increases our sphere of democratic influence in a fashion consistent with American ideals and values.



TAXES
Abolish the IRS, or reform it and institute a flat tax. If abolished, the Government would still have a plethora of avenues to acquire revenue, including constitutional methods: tariffs and excise taxes.

Today individual income taxes account for only approximately one-third of federal revenue. Abolishing the IRS today would eliminate one-third of the 2007 Federal budget, which would STILL be greater than the 2000 Federal budget!

Most middle-class families are in the 28% to 38% tax bracket... Imagine the boost to the economy if 20% to 38% of every tax-paying Americans paycheck was no longer simply taken by the IRS....

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.


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Postby fredinator » Fri Nov 30, 2007 8:01 pm

Good grief, I am going to have to print this out and go study it! Awesome!! What are the chances of any of these three being done? I love the JFK reference--who do you think would say something like that in a speech? They've been talking about your 1st point for years; actually all 3 points. That is what is scary. Why doesn't some great leader step out of the woodwork like in the past and get us out of this mess!! I bet you have an opinion on Social Security, too; and health care--what are they?

(By the way, are you a lawyer or something like that? Politician?) I love your post... :)
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Postby Andrew » Fri Nov 30, 2007 8:07 pm

slucero wrote:
The dollar is plunging... which is great for every country - except the USA..


Actually, it's pretty fucked for everyone that the US dollar is so fucked up. And the current administration has been quoted in local press here as supporting the lower value dollar.

Look right here for example - everything in my personal site business is quoted in US dollars, which means by the time it reaches my account, I'm working for 30% less than I was 2 years ago and that is on top of how fucked up the music business is. Life ain't easy.

Then you have the online retailers peddling the product I promote here. The exchange rates have made it ver hard for US business to import the product I promote and sel at a reasonable price that US consumers are used to. So business there is sucky on top of the whole downloading/piracy issue.

Bottome line - US policy and the state of the US economy is having a very real and very negative effect on the melodic rock community.
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Postby conversationpc » Fri Nov 30, 2007 10:14 pm

fredinator wrote:I agree with the guy who said we are facing huge economic troubles, and Sorry Dave, RF and you others, I lay the blame for that directly at the feet of Bush, his administration and the Republican Congress.


If you're fair-minded, you would also have to lay the blame at the feet of ALL PREVIOUS ADMINISTRATIONS going back as far as the 1940s and possibly earlier. They've all contributed quite a bit to the problem
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Postby ohsherrie » Fri Nov 30, 2007 10:59 pm

conversationpc wrote:
fredinator wrote:I agree with the guy who said we are facing huge economic troubles, and Sorry Dave, RF and you others, I lay the blame for that directly at the feet of Bush, his administration and the Republican Congress.


If you're fair-minded, you would also have to lay the blame at the feet of ALL PREVIOUS ADMINISTRATIONS going back as far as the 1940s and possibly earlier. They've all contributed quite a bit to the problem


Yes, but it was Bush that let the bottom fall out completely when he sold our manufacturing jobs for campaign contributions from the corporations and then did nothing but wage war while our economy spun out of control with no management whatsoever.

Did you ever bother to read Alan Greenspan's book?
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Postby fredinator » Fri Nov 30, 2007 11:01 pm

But I thought there wasn't a deficit when Bush took over. I don't know--I'm not an expert--I'm sure there is blame to go around. I can't be totally fair because I am a Democrat. Although not one to the point of having to win every argument at the expense of the good of our country, you know? Anyway, when I start dwelling on what's happening in the mortgage industry and credit industry, I get a little scared and I feel that it may not have gotten this bad if there weren't so many Republicans in power.
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Postby slucero » Fri Nov 30, 2007 11:08 pm

fredinator wrote:Good grief, I am going to have to print this out and go study it! Awesome!! What are the chances of any of these three being done? I love the JFK reference--who do you think would say something like that in a speech? They've been talking about your 1st point for years; actually all 3 points. That is what is scary. Why doesn't some great leader step out of the woodwork like in the past and get us out of this mess!! I bet you have an opinion on Social Security, too; and health care--what are they?

(By the way, are you a lawyer or something like that? Politician?) I love your post... :)



Hahah Fred!

I'm no lawyer... I'm more a student of how most Americans are being mislead by their government (at the behest of big business)...

What I've found in conversations with many friends an colleagues is that they think of politics, policy, etc.. in a very "near term" and literal sense... as opposed to the longer term consequences. What is going on is really no "conspiracy", as some people would think it is... its simply the result of Executive and Legislative branches of government who no longer serving the American people as much as they used to.

The solution to what ails America requires some major surgery in how Washington does business.... think of the corporate lobby as cancer and Washington as the body.... my fear is that the body is going to have to get very ill before it gets better.... globalism of the American economy has had a horribly de-stabilizing effect on out economic stability, because supposedly smart politicians and business leaders did not plan for the effects of gutting the American industrial machine... which is what happened when manufacturing was off-shored to Asia.

There is a documentary called "Why We Fight" that illustrates how corporate lobby really started to influence Washington after WWII. The irony of this documentary is that Dwight Eisenhower warns the American people of this problem in his final speech as President.

Social Security is going to die.... it's simple mathematics. Social Security works like this... you work and pay into the SS system.. the money you pay in is actually going to those who are already retired and drawing SS benefits. Look at this graph.

Image

It only goes to 1998... but remember those working now are paying for the benefits retirees receive.... when so those Boomers who are retiring were born between 1946 to 1964.... look at the birth rate for that period... its nearly DOUBLE from what it is now.... which means from 1965 on the birth rate is effectively HALF of what it was when Boomers were born..... a 50% reduction in available workers to pay into Social Security.... this is what politicians are really squawking about. Money has to be found somewhere... more taxes? Most Americans will vomit at the thought of that....

Corporations want a populace that is by and large not engaged.... its obvious when one looks at our fast-food, short term, video game crazed society... we're being pacified into conformity, and the result (unless some major leadership surgery is done) will be the eventual slow slide of the US into a 3rd world country.

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.


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Postby ohsherrie » Fri Nov 30, 2007 11:15 pm

fredinator wrote:But I thought there wasn't a deficit when Bush took over. I don't know--I'm not an expert--I'm sure there is blame to go around. I can't be totally fair because I am a Democrat. Although not one to the point of having to win every argument at the expense of the good of our country, you know? Anyway, when I start dwelling on what's happening in the mortgage industry and credit industry, I get a little scared and I feel that it may not have gotten this bad if there weren't so many Republicans in power.


Slucero's excellent posts explained why all of the administrations since Roosevelt have had a hand in bringing all the factors together that are culminating into an economic crisis under the current administration's mismanagement, or more accurately, lack of management.

Clinton is an economic genious and managed it very well so that our economy was truly strong, not artificially giving the appearance of strength, while he balanced the budget and left with a budget surplus that should have been put into the Social Security program. Instead, Bush comes in and sends everybody a check to go out and by something with, calls it a tax cut that some ignorant people still think they got, and sinks us.

Amazing how RF keeps spouting off about how it's the Dems that want to get into everybody's business and into their bank accounts but it's the reps that have raped this country and robbed it blind.
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Postby slucero » Fri Nov 30, 2007 11:16 pm

fredinator wrote:But I thought there wasn't a deficit when Bush took over. I don't know--I'm not an expert--I'm sure there is blame to go around. I can't be totally fair because I am a Democrat. Although not one to the point of having to win every argument at the expense of the good of our country, you know? Anyway, when I start dwelling on what's happening in the mortgage industry and credit industry, I get a little scared and I feel that it may not have gotten this bad if there weren't so many Republicans in power.


There's always been a deficit.... and both the Republicans and Democrats share the blame equally.... ponder this... why is there no Federal mandate requiring a balanced budget?

This is a good explanation of it... note the 1969 reference... and remember that we went to the moon that year also....

--- "Budget Deficit" vs. "National Debt" ---

Suppose you want to spend more money this month than your income. This situation is called a "budget deficit". So you borrow. The amount you borrowed (and now owe) is called your debt. You have to pay interest on your debt. If next month you don't have enough money to cover your spending (another deficit), you must borrow some more, and you'll still have to pay the interest on the loan. If you have a deficit every month, you keep borrowing and your debt grows. Soon the interest payment on your loan is bigger than any other item in your budget. Eventually, all you can do is pay the interest payment, and you don't have any money left over for anything else. This situation is known as bankruptcy.

Each year since 1969, Congress has spent more money than its income. The Treasury Department has to borrow money to meet Congress's appropriations. The total borrowed is more than $8,000,000,000,000 and growing. Even when government officials claim to have a surplus, they still spend more than they get in. We pay interest on that huge debt.
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Postby fredinator » Fri Nov 30, 2007 11:17 pm

I'm afraid these ideas are too tall an order unless things get really desperate. How can one person (a President) solve all these huge problems? It will take another 50 years. :(
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Postby ohsherrie » Fri Nov 30, 2007 11:20 pm

fredinator wrote:I'm afraid these ideas are too tall an order unless things get really desperate. How can one person (a President) solve all these huge problems? It will take another 50 years. :(


Precisely. That's why the best we can hope for is another excellent economic manager who can help us keep our heads above water while hopefully we can start to reform our entire political system.

Do I think the system is really going to be reformed? Not really, at least not until there is nothing left but the ashes from which to start rebuilding. But I can't just give up so I'll keep doing the best I can.

Please go see Lions for Lambs.
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Postby slucero » Fri Nov 30, 2007 11:22 pm

fredinator wrote:I'm afraid these ideas are too tall an order unless things get really desperate. How can one person (a President) solve all these huge problems? It will take another 50 years. :(


As I was saying - ya gotta think BIG PICTURE.... 3 simple things... do those and the positive effects will FAR outweigh the negative

Repeal the tax code and there will be AMPLE cash to save Social Security AND the economy.

Ban lobbying and make public servants out of politicians.

Federally subsidize alternative energy research on the same scale as big oil is now subsidized, and with the same urgency we had with the Apollo program and we'd be energy independent in less than 10 years... and have a thriving economy to boot.

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.


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Postby conversationpc » Fri Nov 30, 2007 11:24 pm

ohsherrie wrote:Clinton is an economic genious and managed it very well so that our economy was truly strong...


Image

This country hasn't had decent economic management in recent memory.
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Postby slucero » Fri Nov 30, 2007 11:29 pm

ohsherrie wrote:
fredinator wrote:But I thought there wasn't a deficit when Bush took over. I don't know--I'm not an expert--I'm sure there is blame to go around. I can't be totally fair because I am a Democrat. Although not one to the point of having to win every argument at the expense of the good of our country, you know? Anyway, when I start dwelling on what's happening in the mortgage industry and credit industry, I get a little scared and I feel that it may not have gotten this bad if there weren't so many Republicans in power.


Slucero's excellent posts explained why all of the administrations since Roosevelt have had a hand in bringing all the factors together that are culminating into an economic crisis under the current administration's mismanagement, or more accurately, lack of management.

Clinton is an economic genious and managed it very well so that our economy was truly strong, not artificially giving the appearance of strength, while he balanced the budget and left with a budget surplus that should have been put into the Social Security program. Instead, Bush comes in and sends everybody a check to go out and by something with, calls it a tax cut that some ignorant people still think they got, and sinks us.

Amazing how RF keeps spouting off about how it's the Dems that want to get into everybody's business and into their bank accounts but it's the reps that have raped this country and robbed it blind.


Clinton was no economic genius.... and the White House has pretty much nothing to do with managing the economy.... Clinton was a genius of a politician (which is also why I'm terrified of Hillary)... which is ok.... I'd rather have a genius of a public servant who clearly understands economics, etc...

I think the main thing you're missing is that both parties have miserably failed "Joe American".... in fact, the mismanagement that has occurred is effectively strangling the life out of the average Americans ability to survive....
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Postby fredinator » Fri Nov 30, 2007 11:29 pm

How about 1 out of 3? I can see the alternative energy point but am dubious about 1 and 2 not me personally but people in power who might never let 1 and/or 2 happen...
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Postby conversationpc » Fri Nov 30, 2007 11:30 pm

slucero wrote:Repeal the tax code and there will be AMPLE cash to save Social Security AND the economy.

Ban lobbying and make public servants out of politicians.


This can be accomplished with the Fair Tax. http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer

This would be the biggest transfer of power from the government to the people in the history of the country.
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Postby slucero » Fri Nov 30, 2007 11:35 pm

conversationpc wrote:
slucero wrote:Repeal the tax code and there will be AMPLE cash to save Social Security AND the economy.

Ban lobbying and make public servants out of politicians.


This can be accomplished with the Fair Tax. http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer

This would be the biggest transfer of power from the government to the people in the history of the country.


There ya go!

:D

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Postby Rip Rokken » Fri Nov 30, 2007 11:41 pm

slucero wrote:The solution to what ails America requires some major surgery in how Washington does business.... think of the corporate lobby as cancer and Washington as the body.... my fear is that the body is going to have to get very ill before it gets better....


Exactly what I've been saying -- the problem is our government in general. It's bloated and corrupt, in both parties. MAJOR surgery needs to be done, as well as elect people with the guts to do it. But you have to take away all their "toys" that keep them from working in the best interest of our country. Lobby reform, election reform, etc., need to be done and then impose things like term limits, etc. Several other things, such as don't allow them to vote in their own pay raises, for example, or base their pay on something else that is an incentive for them to actually do something.


slucero wrote:Corporations want a populace that is by and large not engaged.... its obvious when one looks at our fast-food, short term, video game crazed society... we're being pacified into conformity, and the result (unless some major leadership surgery is done) will be the eventual slow slide of the US into a 3rd world country.


Absolutely right, but so do politicians. Another part of the problem, and the reason election year rhetoric, negative campaign ads and such, are targeted to the lowest common denominator of our society -- the people who don't think.
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Postby ohsherrie » Fri Nov 30, 2007 11:43 pm

slucero wrote:
Clinton was no economic genius.... and the White House has pretty much nothing to do with managing the economy.... Clinton was a genius of a politician (which is also why I'm terrified of Hillary)... which is ok.... I'd rather have a genius of a public servant who clearly understands economics, etc...

I think the main thing you're missing is that both parties have miserably failed "Joe American".... in fact, the mismanagement that has occurred is effectively strangling the life out of the average Americans ability to survive....


Maybe genious was a little too strong a word, but it's not just my opinion that he was brilliant at it. According to Alan Greenspan the White House has quite a bit more to do with the economy than you might think.

I'm absolutely not missing how miserably the working people of this country have been failed by our govenment, but like I said in another post, the best we can hope for at this point is to get another good economic manager in there to keep us from total disaster while hopefully something can be done to start changing the system.
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Postby Rip Rokken » Fri Nov 30, 2007 11:44 pm

conversationpc wrote:This can be accomplished with the Fair Tax. http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer

This would be the biggest transfer of power from the government to the people in the history of the country.


That's why it WON'T HAPPEN without the major surgery Slucero is talking about, nor will their be any real move on any of our major issues. There is no incentive for government to address any of these issues in a real way, much less do anything that removes power from themselves. I would love the Fair Tax, but if it ever gets passed, I'd truly be surprised.
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