More Journey talk...

[STORY_TELLER]

I think I could understand re-recording the GH's if their intent were to offer the songs as free downloads to promote their new singer on their website, the same way Foreigner is promoting their replacement for Lou Graham. But to record their hits and offer them for sale without the original lineup who created the songs in the first place is just a bad idea.

Sure, they'll see money from their deal with Walmart, and who knows, maybe Walmart will even sell through copies of the disk to morons who don't read the fine print before buying. But Journey will have done a great deal of damage to their legitimacy as a band. Guarantee you they don't place band credits on the outside of the CD package. Only after the consumer buys the disk will they realize it's not Perry on vocals. Bait and switch is never a good business practice no matter how you justify it and this will come back to haunt them.

If you're going to spend 5 weeks in a studio, how can you not work on new material? Sad, pathetic as hell and I won't go to a show to support this kind of behavior.

yadayadayada as if you wouldn't do the same if the price was high enough...

Ummm, no. You don't know me or my profession, so don't assume I would do anything of the kind. I happen to be an artistic individual who works in a high profile high paid field and have to deal with these kinds of choices all the time.

Neal and Jon are selling out their legacy with this move. This is short term buck mentality, something American corporate business is famous for.

Depending on how much money is on the table from walmart vs. how much money Journey averages annually from touring, selling out may or may not make sense. If their ticket sales are in the toilet, then yes, grasp at straws. Gotta pay the bills of course. But if their touring is reasonable, then no. Don't sell out. Do that later if you find you HAVE to. Don't come out of the gate with your new singer, re-recording songs made famous by another singer. That can have a destructive impact on the brand name that is Journey and affect your bottom line in the future.

Based on this information, Neal and Jon are making bad business choices left right and center.

They've got a new singer and their recent choices have made even their casual fan base scratch their heads. Now is not the time to think in the short term. What they should do is make a new material album and promote their new singer.

Have the courage of conviction to back your own play the right way. Don't be sneaky about it or it could affect your customer base (in this case, the fans)

So "yadayadayada" my ass pal. I don't think in the short term.

[STORY_TELLER]

I started a separate thread, but will post here as well. I let Kevin Shirley know about the latest rumors. He just asked me to post the following:

Tom,
Thanks for the email.
A quick reply from my phone - forgive the brevity.
Feel free to post this if you wish.
Neal and Jon called me and asked me in November to check out a couple of new songs, for an upcoming and possible project with Journey.
I went to San Francisco to assess the new Journey and check out the material. I am so swamped, have a new baby and I did not want to be involved if it wasn't focused and great. I thought I'd be there for 2 days. First, I was stunned at Arnel, who is a monster vocalist. He is the real deal. Just phenomenal. Its true they found him on YouTube. Next I heard the songs. I am always in awe of Jonathan Cain as songwriter/producer and together with Neal, who adds the rock element, they are one of the great songwriting partnerships. Its true they don't always see eye to eye musically, but the combination is magic. We spent a while talking and seeing where they were at. I have been brutally honest with them, and was not interested in being any part of them being a nostalgia/tribute band, which could happen if their focus got lost, which it has been. Some of the songs were lacking direction which I, as an outspoken and brutal outsider, immediately pointed out and set about repairing. So I cut a couple of tracks - and have been school teacher/policeman-producer with them, and with all the shit out of the way, you have to hear them ignore their egos and me, and just play as Journey. All together in the studio. What a privilege to see all 5 of them playing together. They are fantastic. I am always cogniscent of the space Perry and Smith occupy in the sound and legacy, and won't let that be underplayed, and Deen and Arnel are brilliant musicians, and with a little focus the entire band has found their place again. This is stronger than Trial By Fire and sounds like Journey, but state-of-the-art. People always talk up upcoming material, but just wait. Its unbelievable. There's a full album of new material coming, but much more, too. Don't believe all you read - there is no one else but the band in the studio to hear the music (although we do have a Make-A-Wish kid coming in soon).
And that's the dirt from Las Vegas, where I am mixing seven new original songs. I head back to San Francisco after a quick visit to London, to see the Led Zep reunion, to finish off where we began. I can't wait, and you are going to love it!
Merry Xmas,
KS

If this is true then it's welcome news. I could support a 'double album' as long as there was new material, but I wouldn't purchase it without hearing samples first. They have to prove to me that Arnel is the man. I'm not forking over money to this band on faith anymore.

All that criteria being satisfied, if I were to buy it, I seriously doubt I'd load the re-recorded GH tracks into my iPod. Would I give it a listen to get a sense of what Arnel would sound like in concert? Sure. Would I continue to play the tracks after that? No. Perry already invented those melodies and those vocal hooks. They belong to him and him alone. Everyone else is just mimicking what he created. Why listen to a copycat when the originals, to this day, hold up so well? Very easy to copy or karaoke what someone else invented. Not so easy to originate that same magic. That's the difference between talent and skill.

[Gibby]

There could well be a long queue for the humble pie on this forum next year....

Absolutely correct. It's funny to watch this topic start - many being so sure that it's just a re-recording of the classics. Then Kevin Shirley jumps in and changes everything. New material and the 'much more' KS refers to could be a redo of the classics I suppose. Important thing here is new material. Gonna need a big oven for all that humble pie for sure.

[ScarabGator]

OK, before I get bashed too hard hear me out on this one-I emailed a friend thats close to the Journey situation and got an answer about what is going on. You can all take this for what you want but considering where its from I believe it pretty strongly. They will indeed be a new CD with original stuff that is being worked on right now and Arnel is singing on it. He will probably not get any writing credit though. The GH's is also coming out separtely but this could be a promotional thing only? Now, thats what Ive been told from a reliable source close to this camp.

This sounds plausible to me....

Me too, but it contradicts what Andrew reported. He said there's no new material.

No offense to Andrew or anyone but I dont think he has all the facts yet on this one. Please dont take this statement wrong, Andrew. Just passing what I am being told....

[Lerxst101]

OK, before I get bashed too hard hear me out on this one-I emailed a friend thats close to the Journey situation and got an answer about what is going on. You can all take this for what you want but considering where its from I believe it pretty strongly. They will indeed be a new CD with original stuff that is being worked on right now and Arnel is singing on it. He will probably not get any writing credit though. The GH's is also coming out separtely but this could be a promotional thing only? Now, thats what Ive been told from a reliable source close to this camp.

This sounds plausible to me....

Me too, but it contradicts what Andrew reported. He said there's no new material.

No offense to Andrew or anyone but I dont think he has all the facts yet on this one. Please dont take this statement wrong, Andrew. Just passing what I am being told....

I wouldn't doubt that they are doing both -- and that's not from Kevin, that's my own gut feeling. I could easily see Wal-Mart saying, "OK, you can record and release news songs, but it's either going to be released after the rehash CD, or at best, in a package with a rehash."

[fightingilliniJRNY]

I wouldn't doubt that they are doing both -- and that's not from Kevin, that's my own gut feeling. I could easily see Wal-Mart saying, "OK, you can record and release news songs, but it's either going to be released after the rehash CD, or at best, in a package with a rehash."

That's exactly what I said earlier. I can easily see this as a two-CD package for $11.88 at Wal-Mart. The new album and the disc of re-recorded greatest hits. I would lay money on this.

[Rosebud]

I wouldn't doubt that they are doing both -- and that's not from Kevin, that's my own gut feeling. I could easily see Wal-Mart saying, "OK, you can record and release news songs, but it's either going to be released after the rehash CD, or at best, in a package with a rehash."

That's exactly what I said earlier. I can easily see this as a two-CD package for $11.88 at Wal-Mart. The new album and the disc of re-recorded greatest hits. I would lay money on this.

But why!? the music isn't stale, if you want to buy the re-issues they are still on the shelves and if you just discovered Journey why would you
need to buy Journey's greatest hits 2008? This is plain stupid.
I don't even think this is going to happen, Perry surely won't let it if he has any pull in the music world.

[Moon Beam]

Rerecording 30yr old music is pathetic no matter who is singing.

I agree with you Monker.
Though this doesn't happen very often and it's twilight zone funny, I tend to have
the same thought on this, however.....

Would you apply that comment to the Birtles, Shorrock, Goble Full Circle cd?
I surely wouldn't.

[Gin and Tonic Sky]

[quote="Tyler"
I don't even think this is going to happen, Perry surely won't let it if he has any pull in the music world.[/quote]

I hope not, partly because I fear that Journey are trying to do to Perry what Van Halen have been trying to do with Michael Anthony- airbrush him out of people's memories. Re- record the classics with Arnel, rewrite history and hope that there are thousands of new fans who think he's been the singer all along.

The Van Halen fans seem to have let Van Halen get away with what they did to Michael Anthony. Journey fans shouldn't let it happen to Perry!!! Not that it would ever work , but its still stinks all the same and we ought to kick up sh*&t about it!!!!!

[PERRYLOVE]

takes low lifes to do something like that to classics

what else can it be but money talks to them
they dont care what there doing and you will fall face first on the floor neallass and cain stay out of the greatest you dont go as high as there ankels jack ass

sorry i had to blow steam :/
ugly i get huh but i cant stand something like this

get your asses over here neal and cain so we can shake your behinds and kick it to the moon
stupid moroons

carole

[Rick]

I don't even think this is going to happen, Perry surely won't let it if he has any pull in the music world.

I hope not, partly because I fear that Journey are trying to do to Perry what Van Halen have been trying to do with Michael Anthony- airbrush him out of people's memories. Re- record the classics with Arnel, rewrite history and hope that there are thousands of new fans who think he's been the singer all along.

The Van Halen fans seem to have let Van Halen get away with what they did to Michael Anthony. Journey fans shouldn't let it happen to Perry!!! Not that it would ever work , but its still stinks all the same and we ought to kick up sh*&t about it!!!!!

I like the way you think.

[Escape Artist]

I don't even think this is going to happen, Perry surely won't let it if he has any pull in the music world.

I hope not, partly because I fear that Journey are trying to do to Perry what Van Halen have been trying to do with Michael Anthony- airbrush him out of people's memories. Re- record the classics with Arnel, rewrite history and hope that there are thousands of new fans who think he's been the singer all along.

The Van Halen fans seem to have let Van Halen get away with what they did to Michael Anthony. Journey fans shouldn't let it happen to Perry!!! Not that it would ever work , but its still stinks all the same and we ought to kick up sh*&t about it!!!!!

I like the way you think.

What do we need to do? I HATE this idea of rehashing the classics.
I didn't even want JSS to do this and I was all the way on board w/ him being Journey's frontman...Arnel?? I am still swimming behind the boat and drowning quickly.

[NealIsGod]

The Van Halen fans seem to have let Van Halen get away with what they did to Michael Anthony. Journey fans shouldn't let it happen to Perry!!! Not that it would ever work , but its still stinks all the same and we ought to kick up sh*&t about it!!!!!

If you go see a VH show, or watch one of the boots, you will see that Wolfie is a godsend and that there probably would be no more VH without him. Eddie looks more happy and energized that he has been since early in the Sammy era. And Wolfie more than holds his own on the bass.

[maverick218]

Too bad Perry didn't have a lifetime ban on re-recording...

[NealIsGod]

Too bad Perry didn't have a lifetime ban on re-recording...

Why is everyone so mad about it? Just don't buy it.

[Lora]

Gonna need a big oven for all that humble pie for sure.

No humble pie will be served up. They are putting out the re-recording of the dirty dozen, regardless of whether or not they are also putting out new material.

[tammy]

It just sickens me that they are doing this re-recorded GH...and, yes, it makes me mad whether I buy it or not (obviously, NO, I'm not)...the Classics have held up on their own all these years, even more popular in the last few years from all the movies, t.v. shows spots...we know there is no reason other than GREED. I have lost all respect for what is left of JRNY...their stupidity & lack of loyalty is embarrassing.
(And, don't think I won't hide those new CDs at Wal-mart - I'm there all the time!)

[Rick]

It just sickens me that they are doing this re-recorded GH...and, yes, it makes me mad whether I buy it or not (obviously, NO, I'm not)...the Classics have held up on their own all these years, even more popular in the last few years from all the movies, t.v. shows spots...we know there is no reason other than GREED. I have lost all respect for what is left of JRNY...their stupidity & lack of loyalty is embarrassing.
(And, don't think I won't hide those new CDs at Wal-mart - I'm there all the time!)

Someone posted that the reason they are doing this is because they were approached by Walmart about doing this very thing and cutting out the middle man (Sony). For the money they could make, it would be stupid not to do it. We do not have to buy it, which I am sure most of us wont. But that is what I heard about why they are rerecording the GH.

[Andrew]

OK, before I get bashed too hard hear me out on this one-I emailed a friend thats close to the Journey situation and got an answer about what is going on. You can all take this for what you want but considering where its from I believe it pretty strongly. They will indeed be a new CD with original stuff that is being worked on right now and Arnel is singing on it. He will probably not get any writing credit though. The GH's is also coming out separtely but this could be a promotional thing only? Now, thats what Ive been told from a reliable source close to this camp.

This appears to be the accurate truth of the matter. Still working on follow-up info.

[ScarabGator]

just call me dan rather....

[Rick]

just call me dan rather....

[Moon Beam]

(And, don't think I won't hide those new CDs at Wal-mart - I'm there all the time!)

Beautiful!!!!!, take a bow lady

[jrnyman28]

I know. Lora posted about that here, but I think Perry could have had some say over the release date. They have definitely stolen the thunder for this bastardized version and may have been Perry's way of saying FU.

I wonder if the timing of the remasters was Perry's way of sticking it to them.

I don't think they stole anything from this release (there is nothing to steal). Honestly, the remasters buzz has been and gone. But in the past Perry/Sony has done very well with stealing the thunder.... like Essential coming ouit so close to Arrival. I do expect something from Sony.

[jrnyman28]

Me too, but it contradicts what Andrew reported. He said there's no new material.

He said "that [he] is aware of".

[ScarabGator]

Me too, but it contradicts what Andrew reported. He said there's no new material.

He said "that [he] is aware of".

oh, but there is, my friend!

[Moon Beam]

Me too, but it contradicts what Andrew reported. He said there's no new material.

He said "that [he] is aware of".

oh, but there is, my friend!

Proof please, your starting to have an after eating turkey effect here.

[jrnyman28]

If what KS says is true, than colour me intrigued. But what do you expect him to say: the stuff is fair at best!?!?

[ScarabGator]

Me too, but it contradicts what Andrew reported. He said there's no new material.

He said "that [he] is aware of".

oh, but there is, my friend!

Proof please, your starting to have an after eating turkey effect here.

Andrew is gonna break what Ive said here all day today.....hes already damn near confirmed it!!!

[lparn]

Can't say I am interested in the least in the rerecording of the classics.
As much as I would have loved to have a cd of that with Steve Augeri don';t reall ysee the point now.

[tammy]

It just sickens me that they are doing this re-recorded GH...and, yes, it makes me mad whether I buy it or not (obviously, NO, I'm not)...the Classics have held up on their own all these years, even more popular in the last few years from all the movies, t.v. shows spots...we know there is no reason other than GREED. I have lost all respect for what is left of JRNY...their stupidity & lack of loyalty is embarrassing.
(And, don't think I won't hide those new CDs at Wal-mart - I'm there all the time!)

Someone posted that the reason they are doing this is because they were approached by Walmart about doing this very thing and cutting out the middle man (Sony). For the money they could make, it would be stupid not to do it. We do not have to buy it, which I am sure most of us wont. But that is what I heard about why they are rerecording the GH.

I understand that is the case, but they are also cutting out Perry, who put them on the map in the first place! That means nothing to them? Keeping something magical & pristine in place? Then they mean nothing to me now. SP has been the spokesman for this band and even years after he was cut out, he has never shown disrespect or spoken negatively about them! He, very well could've closed the book completely on Journey considering what they did to him, but rather he continued to give interviews & promote the catalog in a positive light...even, praising their talent. (I don't think I could've even done that - I'd never want to mention them). I'm only sorry I supported them & gave them a chance several times...now I feel like a fool.